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jasonchan122497

We NEED single player

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jasonchan122497

We NEED a single player game made by BSG, I have always been a hardcore fan of the STALKER series and all the Cheeki Breeki shooters that spawned from STALKER, and THIS (EFT), THIS is something special, it is everything we in the STALKER community imagined, hoped STALKER would become had it continued to this day (I know Stalker 2 is coming), and I know some developers have the same love for STALKER, so for the love of god go with the actual vision you all have for the game, the multi player game is incredibly fun for some but it leaves so many of us behind in the dust, many of us simply don't want or need all the twitchy, quirky, uber competitive way of playing the game, I think it defeats the whole purpose of a "realistic" shooter.

Stalker was so successful and loved for a simple reason, it was incredibly fun, not so much the story (although that was interesting) but the atmosphere and its gameplay, it was tactical, and cool, it allows people to live out a fantasy. And when I see the environment, the details, and the AI within this game, the customization, I see everything in it, the love and care, even the loot and economy system.

And yet here we are, the moment there is a new update, all I see is the incessant search for the "best" way to play the game, how to kill other PMCs, how to loot the new buildings most efficiently, what builds are now the "meta"... guides, guides, guides...

duck everything else about the game amirite?! 

It was interesting for the first few wipes, but now everything is just a race, a popularity contest for twitch streamers, people like Veritas, Anton, Pestily... Do you know why we all watch the game so much? its because we can't play the game if our lives depended on it,  but love it anyways.

This might not be a very popular opinion and I will get a lot of hate on these forums, but I feel like I have to speak for maybe the players that loves the mechanics and the game but was alienated by it.

 

SO FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, make R.2028 a reality, I don't wish to die before I see this game released, and I have and have supported BSG for so long I just hope they don't lose this passion before it becomes a reality.

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keallu
On 12/27/2020 at 4:40 PM, jasonchan122497 said:

We NEED a single player game made by BSG, I have always been a hardcore fan of the STALKER series and all the Cheeki Breeki shooters that spawned from STALKER, and THIS (EFT), THIS is something special, it is everything we in the STALKER community imagined, hoped STALKER would become had it continued to this day (I know Stalker 2 is coming), and I know some developers have the same love for STALKER, so for the love of god go with the actual vision you all have for the game, the multi player game is incredibly fun for some but it leaves so many of us behind in the dust, many of us simply don't want or need all the twitchy, quirky, uber competitive way of playing the game, I think it defeats the whole purpose of a "realistic" shooter.

Stalker was so successful and loved for a simple reason, it was incredibly fun, not so much the story (although that was interesting) but the atmosphere and its gameplay, it was tactical, and cool, it allows people to live out a fantasy. And when I see the environment, the details, and the AI within this game, the customization, I see everything in it, the love and care, even the loot and economy system.

And yet here we are, the moment there is a new update, all I see is the incessant search for the "best" way to play the game, how to kill other PMCs, how to loot the new buildings most efficiently, what builds are now the "meta"... guides, guides, guides...

duck everything else about the game amirite?! 

It was interesting for the first few wipes, but now everything is just a race, a popularity contest for twitch streamers, people like Veritas, Anton, Pestily... Do you know why we all watch the game so much? its because we can't play the game if our lives depended on it,  but love it anyways.

This might not be a very popular opinion and I will get a lot of hate on these forums, but I feel like I have to speak for maybe the players that loves the mechanics and the game but was alienated by it.

 

SO FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, make R.2028 a reality, I don't wish to die before I see this game released, and I have and have supported BSG for so long I just hope they don't lose this passion before it becomes a reality.

It would be so simple to do. Just add an online and an offline character/profile and keep them separated in all sense. Then everybody could have their kind of fun with the game. But no. EFT is a game for streamers and other people who have all the time in the world to get good at the game and play aggressive and kills all us noobs for fun and fame. I enjoyed it a few years back when there were a lot fewer players. It was possible to play it then. Now I don't play at all. I would upgrade immediately to EOD the day Battlestate introduce real offline (solo, single player) mode but they won't I'm sure. Its just a streamer game.

I hope for Russia 2028...

Edited by keallu
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GeneralBrus
On 12/27/2020 at 4:40 PM, jasonchan122497 said:

We NEED a single player game made by BSG,

Let me correct you; You WANT a single player game made by BSG.

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p4nnus
On 1/9/2021 at 12:21 PM, Andrudis said:

 

The problem is, you dont own anything. You have the right to beta test as youve pre-ordered the game, but you dont own a copy or anything. 

If BSG wants to, they could crack down on this operation and said players, if they would even find out who they are. 

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TensedTatterTot
On 12/27/2020 at 3:40 PM, jasonchan122497 said:

We NEED a single player

I disagree. We NEED BSG to fix the issues that exist already. If you want a singleplayer game wait for Stalker 2.

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p4nnus
25 minutes ago, Andrudis said:

I paid for the game and I do not break any rules

No, you paid to pre-order it. Its not a game yet, its not a ready product.

Have you read the terms you agreed to? Im pretty sure modifying the beta is against the rules. Im not gonna go through the effort of looking for the exact sentence for you, but these kinds of things are literally always against the rules. 

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Andrudis
21 minutes ago, p4nnus said:

No, you paid to pre-order it. Its not a game yet, its not a ready product.

Have you read the terms you agreed to? Im pretty sure modifying the beta is against the rules. Im not gonna go through the effort of looking for the exact sentence for you, but these kinds of things are literally always against the rules. 

No one was taking about modifying live version - that is against and ToS for a good reason. Yes, I've paid to pre-order, but pre-order includes guaranties access to beta version of the game. What is does not include and can never include - it cannot force me or anyone to play online is we do not want to.

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p4nnus
19 minutes ago, Andrudis said:

No one was taking about modifying live version - that is against and ToS for a good reason. Yes, I've paid to pre-order, but pre-order includes guaranties access to beta version of the game. What is does not include and can never include - it cannot force me or anyone to play online is we do not want to.

Yes, but a modified version, live or not, is their intellectual property. You can play the offline mode that is included, but you cant possibly be claiming that modifying a beta version of an online game is allowed.. ?

Do I really need to search the part that says so? I thought its absolutely obvious that its like that.

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Andrudis
1 minute ago, p4nnus said:

Yes, but a modified version, live or not, is their intellectual property. You can play the offline mode that is included, but you cant possibly be claiming that modifying a beta version of an online game is allowed.. ?

Do I really need to search the part that says so? I thought its absolutely obvious that its like that.

It is obviously absurd to state that ToS can dictate what I may or may not do offline on my private computer and without commercial influence. Even if there is anything like that in ToS - it is legally meaningless, You can believe whatever you want

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p4nnus
1 hour ago, Andrudis said:

It is obviously absurd to state that ToS can dictate what I may or may not do offline on my private computer and without commercial influence. Even if there is anything like that in ToS - it is legally meaningless, You can believe whatever you want

Well, it can legally do that. Im not saying that would stop you, never tried to say that at all. But its still illegal.

Its the ones who develop such mods that could get sued etc.

My whole point is that you dont own the files to the game, you own a right to use them. Youve agreed to this yourself, even if you wouldnt actually follow this agreement. Using a modded version is against this agreement too, no matter how sneakily you might/could break it.

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Prep0d

You isn't we

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mgoschie
4 hours ago, p4nnus said:

Well, it can legally do that. Im not saying that would stop you, never tried to say that at all. But its still illegal.

Its the ones who develop such mods that could get sued etc.

My whole point is that you dont own the files to the game, you own a right to use them. Youve agreed to this yourself, even if you wouldnt actually follow this agreement. Using a modded version is against this agreement too, no matter how sneakily you might/could break it.

I agree using the core files for purposes outside of the game design is against the agreement we all agreed to when purchasing the game. However, you said it yourself earlier that this is a beta. We prepaid the game therefore gaining access to it per the agreement with the developers. There is an issue with this approach as we have purchased the game and the developers vision for that game per advertisements, road maps, patch notes, etc. The gaming community has seen numerous games that have given players access to alphas and betas only to fail with the development of the game, or the expectations they set. The courts have ruled in the favor of the players by ordering the developers to give the money they paid back to them. Essentially, players have bought the right to play the game, and the right to play it when it is fully developed thereby developers who fail to meet expectations, or develop the game must give the money back as the agreement is null and void.

Like you said, this is a beta. The game has yet to be finished! The vision of what EFT could be is constantly developing. The community is torn between chads, and rats. Expert FPS players that slaughter everything (chads), and casual gamers that want loot; the occasional fire fight (rats). Why not provide a single player mode? There isn't a draw back except that chads will have to kill more chads instead of rats because some rats will tend to play single player more often.

This whole section of the forum is dedicated to suggestions. A single player mode would be awesome, and I too suggest it. If an emulated single player version of EFT already exists than the community has already spoken and the developers should bring them back into the fold with an authentic single player version!!!

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Andrudis
13 hours ago, p4nnus said:

Well, it can legally do that. Im not saying that would stop you, never tried to say that at all. But its still illegal.

Its the ones who develop such mods that could get sued etc.

That is not as straightforward as you think. There is no laws that limits you private single player offline experience as long as you do not get illegal profit, and do no harm to other players, developers, IP etc. And if there is no law that limits it - it cannot be illegal by definition.

What CAN  be illegal:

- distribute game files by means other that official BSG launcher

- provide access to game for people who do not own legit right to play that game (did not pay for pre-order)

- alter or reveres engineer game files provided by BSG

- gaining unfair advantage not intended by developers either by using 3rd party software or by exploiting bugs

- illegally use BSG's files/IP in other products

- profiting in any illegal way by using BSG's IP and/or game files

- hurting BSG's IP, reputation or profits in any illegal way

- providing alternative public services for coop/multiplayer outside of official BSG servers

etc...

In short - there has to exist either any kind of illegal profit or any kind of harm done to other people/company/IP before there can be any legal consequences. As long as none of that happened, like it or not, there can be nothing illegal.

13 hours ago, p4nnus said:

My whole point is that you dont own the files to the game, you own a right to use them

Actually what I dont own: any right to distribute, modify, get profit, etc, is short I do not own IP in those files. But as you said yourself I do "own a right to use them" as they are - and that is enough to enable solo offline progression for my private use and stay inside all legal bounds.

Note: I personally would prefer players to stay with official BGS servers, that is why I suggested Training mode in other thread as a compromise that will allow new players to have easier learning curve but will not be a substitution for online gameplay. I would prefer new players to will be less motivated to look for single player emulators and/or abandon online game completely and more motivated to actually go Online for full experience. 

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p4nnus
10 hours ago, mgoschie said:

Essentially, players have bought the right to play the game, and the right to play it when it is fully developed thereby developers who fail to meet expectations, or develop the game must give the money back as the agreement is null and void.

I dont think there are enough cases or any international court that could prosecute BSG if they fail to fulfil some expectations. Im quite sure the agreeement takes the possible changes and so on in account. From what Ive understood the only way to get refunds from EFT is through banks, by cancelling the purchase, but thats only what Ive heard here on the forums. 

My point is that its kind of an utopical thought that people could sue BSG and get their money back if the game looks very different from what was originally promised. Not to be prejudicial or anything, but they are set in Russia, so that makes it a little bit harder. If they were set in an EU country, it might actually happen but I wouldnt get my hopes up in this sense. 

This is not to say that I wouldnt feel like what you describe would be wrong or bad in any way. I have seen a lot of scummy early access dev't, its good if the devs are responsible in some way. I just dont think its realistic to think that getting a refund from BSG that way is possible.

10 hours ago, mgoschie said:

Like you said, this is a beta. The game has yet to be finished! The vision of what EFT could be is constantly developing. The community is torn between chads, and rats. Expert FPS players that slaughter everything (chads), and casual gamers that want loot; the occasional fire fight (rats). Why not provide a single player mode? There isn't a draw back except that chads will have to kill more chads instead of rats because some rats will tend to play single player more often.

The tear in community is only in the minds of people who lack understanding. People who think EFT plays out even close to what its gonna be like when finished, or even when 80% done. We are still at a phase were major features are implemented and there are still many wipes to come. That means that everything from progression to damage values to economy is very much placeholder and WIP. EFT is and always was designed so, that people who are good and play a lot will benefit more than casual players. This is only gonna get more prominent in the future according to BSG.

The game is also gonna get a lot more HC according to BSG, so the people who make this silly divide of "rats vs chads" will probably leave when they realize this is not the next HC mode to COD with loot. Its absolutely ridiculous to make this divide among players, I dont think the target audience of EFT respects that kind of rhetoric or mentality, but I mightve understood the whole concept of "rats vs chads" wrong. What I do know is that increased realism and more HC features will make the game even more punishing and the way "expert FPS" players play EFT now, to be as succesful as possible, wont be that viable in the long run. (Im referring to the ADAD movement, bunny hopping, armor and gun meta, hyper aggressive gameplay style etc)

Why not provide single player mode? Because EFT is supposed to be an online game and BSG is planning a separate SP experience codenamed Russia 2028, which explains the background of what were seeing in EFT. 

10 hours ago, mgoschie said:

This whole section of the forum is dedicated to suggestions. A single player mode would be awesome, and I too suggest it. If an emulated single player version of EFT already exists than the community has already spoken and the developers should bring them back into the fold with an authentic single player version!!!

Dont get me wrong, I have nothing against people modding that kind of thing. I just feel its ridiculously entitled for some to say "I have a right to do this and that" when in reality we dont own the game at this point. We are here to test it for BSG. This SP mod is also away from that. It might make the amount of players testing the different versions of EFT lesser, so at some point that might be against BSGs plans.

1 hour ago, Andrudis said:

and do no harm to other players, developers, IP

You answered this yourself. From BSGs view it very well might be harm to them, to their idea of EFT, how its supposed to be dev't, what its supposed to be. Its their IP, they meant it to be online focused, they would probably provide modding tools at this phase if they wanted people to already make other things out of it.

From what Ive understood its possible to play this SP mod with cracked files, so thats not damaging to the devs, no? 

I have no idea why youre trying to argue otherwise, modding a beta, which youve agreed to test on their terms, is absolutely illegal. Downloading those files is probably illegal too, but I have to admit Im not 100% on that. What Ive understood, its you downloading illegally modified game files, which is close to piracy if not that by definition.

BSG has been very clear that there wont be a proper SP experience in EFT, there will be the offline co-op with no progression, but no separate characters. Its supposed to be a HC (MMO)RPGFPS, they are the ones who define what they want it to be and they hold the keys to opening it for modding etc. Theyve even said that it might happen after the launch, but judging from that theres absolutely no reason to think that they would allow it during the beta. So yeah, modding a game that is supposed to be Online focused, while they have plans of making a proper SP experience out of it later, is harming them. 

1 hour ago, Andrudis said:

"own a right to use them" as they are - and that is enough to enable solo offline progression for my private use and stay inside all legal bounds.

This right is on their terms, which you agreed to. Altering what you are using or using altered files is not a part of this. Do I really need to bring this up from the agreement? Like the exact quote? Why are you even arguing this, its obvious?

I want to repeat; I personally am not against this sort of thing. Modding, even illegal modding, has brought a lot of interesting takes on some games. What Im saying is that by the terms you agreed to its not allowed by any means. 

@tobiassolem Do you know if BSG is aware of the offline mod / planning on doing sth about it? 

Edited by p4nnus

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tobiassolem
1 hour ago, p4nnus said:

Do you know if BSG is aware of the offline mod / planning on doing sth about it? 

BSG are aware of it. I do not currently have any more info other than that we do not condone this. I would not be surprised if there will be legal action.

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p4nnus
30 minutes ago, tobiassolem said:

BSG are aware of it. I do not currently have any more info other than that we do not condone this. I would not be surprised if there will be legal action.

Thanks for the input.

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Andrudis
2 hours ago, p4nnus said:

My point is that its kind of an utopical thought that people could sue BSG and get their money back if the game looks very different from what was originally promised. Not to be prejudicial or anything, but they are set in Russia, so that makes it a little bit harder. If they were set in an EU country, it might actually happen but I wouldnt get my hopes up in this sense. 

It does not matter where devs are located. Currently game is in beta and there is a huge banner at the start of the game "This beta version doesn't represent the final quality  of the product.". The same but more detailed listed in ToS and covered by IP laws in most countries, so there are Zero changes for any legal complains if final product will be completely different from what is it no or was years ago. BSG owns all right to change anything regarding their product at any time.

2 hours ago, p4nnus said:

From what Ive understood its possible to play this SP mod with cracked files, so thats not damaging to the devs, no? 

Cracking files - is one of ways to do it and it will be illegal one for reasons listed about. The same as is illegal to distribute game files or to create unofficial multiplayer servers. But as I understood(maybe I am wrong here) that is a way to have SP progression without any changes to original files and legit purchased copy of EFT is required for this - only difference is that already existing offline mode do actually save progress.

Can you name any reason how player who 1) paid for pre-order but 2) do not want to play online and 3) play only offline locally instead - can possibly do any damage to devs? I really would like to know at least 1 valid argument for this, because I cannot think of any. I would be sincerely grateful if you can provide any. Unlike people, who volunteered for closed testing of the latest features and took obligations to play and give feedback, players who just made pre-order cannot be forced to play at all. 

2 hours ago, p4nnus said:

I have no idea why youre trying to argue otherwise

I am trying to argue just because there really exist a thin line between legal and illegal. You can't state that something is illegal just because you personally do not like it. Piracy is illegal, stealing other's IP is illegal, profiting from other's work is illegal too, gaining unfair advantage - not explicitly illegal in most countries, unfortunately, but at least punishable(I wish it will become illegal at some point in the future also). But since when it is illegal to have private fun that do not affect anyone else?

I just fail to see why you are so concerned that some people found way to have some fun for money they paid and refuse to take part in activities they find too frustrating or pointless at the moment?

2 hours ago, p4nnus said:

What Ive understood, its you downloading illegally modified game files, which is close to piracy if not that by definition.

Sorry but, I believe I've never stated anything about "downloading illegally modified game files"- on contrary I've stated that distribution and modification of original game files would be illegal. That would be piracy literally and can and should be prohibited.

3 hours ago, p4nnus said:

So yeah, modding a game that is supposed to be Online focused, while they have plans of making a proper SP experience out of it later, is harming them. 

Harming in what way? No mods or emulators could ever replace Online experience. And if game is designed to be MMO game - no mods can convert it to a proper single player(SP) experience. I think that is the main reason devs stated they will not do proper SP mode for EFT, because otherwise there will always be a lot of conflict between MMO and SP design decisions and those conflicts will hurt both modes. So I am totally agree with devs on that they should focus on MMO version only.

But according to your arguments:

1) Player gave up on game because of too step learning curve and gave bad feedback about game to fiends - no harm here

2) Player refuse to play Online or play game at all and forget about game completely - no harm here

3) Player refuse to play Online and play only existing offline mode without progression - no harm here

4) Player refuse to play Online and play only existing offline mode with some limited progression persisted, have limited fun and give good feedback and good recommendations to friends while waiting for game to be completed to enjoy full Online experience - he/she is harming devs!!!!

Sorry but I see no any valid logic here.

3 hours ago, p4nnus said:

This right is on their terms, which you agreed to.

ToC in not a law. If any statement in ToC conflicts with existing laws - it is a problem of ToC and whoever compiled it and is not a problem of player who accepted it. They can write in ToC that you are forbitten to breath while playing game - will you comply? BSG can ban anyone if they think that person violated ToC - true. They actually able to ban anyone without any valid reason just because they do not like that person for any reason. In most cases it is counter-productive to waste time and money to bring this to court, through there were successful cases already for illegal bans because ToC contain illegal terms that conflicted with existing laws in some countries.

3 hours ago, p4nnus said:

Why are you even arguing this, its obvious?

I argue only because I am interested to hear your (and other's) opinion about that matter. So thank you very much to your time and efforts, I appreciate it really!

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p4nnus
1 hour ago, Andrudis said:

It does not matter where devs are located. Currently game is in beta and there is a huge banner at the start of the game "This beta version doesn't represent the final quality  of the product.". The same but more detailed listed in ToS and covered by IP laws in most countries, so there are Zero changes for any legal complains if final product will be completely different from what is it no or was years ago. BSG owns all right to change anything regarding their product at any time.

Exactly and they have already delivered so much, that it cant be labeled as a hoax = the beta is very playable already and could be (in worst case) released like this with no legal problems.

This was sth I tried to say already, we have accepted the terms to test this beta. 

1 hour ago, Andrudis said:

Cracking files - is one of ways to do it and it will be illegal one for reasons listed about. The same as is illegal to distribute game files or to create unofficial multiplayer servers. But as I understood(maybe I am wrong here) that is a way to have SP progression without any changes to original files and legit purchased copy of EFT is required for this - only difference is that already existing offline mode do actually save progress.

Can you name any reason how player who 1) paid for pre-order but 2) do not want to play online and 3) play only offline locally instead - can possibly do any damage to devs? I really would like to know at least 1 valid argument for this, because I cannot think of any. I would be sincerely grateful if you can provide any. Unlike people, who volunteered for closed testing of the latest features and took obligations to play and give feedback, players who just made pre-order cannot be forced to play at all. 

I havent looked in to it thoroughly but I heard about this before. I mean this SP mod. Not sure how it exactly works, but to have progress it has to have altered files. Im quite sure you need to dload sth to make it work. Even if it was just some changes to INI files, its still altering the game and its files in a way thats prohibited, no matter how innocently and in good will its done.

I already pointed out that BSG is planning on making their own SP game set in the Tarkov universe. Having an alternative to it is damaging the sales, even if it would be wildly different. EFT is supposed to be online only, so if you can have the "full" (ofc its never full as its not online but you get the point) experience from a modded version, its money out of BSGs pocket. I really thought this was plain obvious.

And then theres just the fact that its their intellectual property. They are the ones to decide what kind of game it is and what parameters the players/testers are tied to. When people change that without permission, its against BSGs plans and vision. The modders are essentially taking someone elses art and changing it up. Its not like samples in music, but the same exact song with maybe a little different drum beat, then released to some other audience and apparently even without the need to pay. In some youtube video there was a mention that you can get EFT cracked and play the SP that way without paying, but I dont know if thats true.

1 hour ago, Andrudis said:

without any changes to original files

What? Seriously? No changes? But no changes would mean that you are playing the exact same game as everyone else, a game which has and will not have SP with progression, a thing confirmed several times by different BSG members including the hefe himself. This kind of change requires at the least some changes to some INI files, but Im quite sure it requires a dloadable client. I might look in to it just for the sake of this conversation, but not gonna do that now.

One thing is clear and its the fact that you cant play EFT SP with progression without modifying the game, which is not permitted, bc no modifications to the game are permitted. They can be when its released, but thats in the far future.

Also, when the game works offline with no check from BSGs servers, its A LOT easier to run a cracked version there, even if that wasnt always the case. Nobody is checking your version for authenticity, as that would give a red flag about a bad version and you would be banned. 

1 hour ago, Andrudis said:

stealing other's IP is illegal

This is essentially what they are doing in a small scale, breaching a contract and stealing&modifying the game without permission. As Tobias confirmed, legal measures could very well be taken. Weve seen that happen with other games/devs. 

1 hour ago, Andrudis said:

Harming in what way? No mods or emulators could ever replace Online experience. And if game is designed to be MMO game - no mods can convert it to a proper single player(SP) experience. I think that is the main reason devs stated they will not do proper SP mode for EFT, because otherwise there will always be a lot of conflict between MMO and SP design decisions and those conflicts will hurt both modes. So I am totally agree with devs on that they should focus on MMO version only.

Ofc it wont replace it, but it provides an alternative BSG dont want to provide. Why? Again, and this is the 3rd or 4th time Im saying this; they are gonna make their own full fletched Tarkov singleplayer game, codenamed Russia 2028.

The mod can convert it to a game that BSG doesnt want to make and they have the rights to everything related to EFT, so thats pretty much the end of story here. Its up to them whether they seek legal measures or not, but its absolutely clear that its not permitted, its not legal and it could lead to consequences. Id guess that even individual players could get banned for it, not that it would stop them if they already have a semi-cracked offline mod.

1 hour ago, Andrudis said:

1) Player gave up on game because of too step learning curve and gave bad feedback about game to fiends - no harm here

2) Player refuse to play Online or play game at all and forget about game completely - no harm here

3) Player refuse to play Online and play only existing offline mode without progression - no harm here

4) Player refuse to play Online and play only existing offline mode with some limited progression persisted, have limited fun and give good feedback and good recommendations to friends while waiting for game to be completed to enjoy full Online experience - he/she is harming devs!!!!

 1) The player was not in the target audience of EFT. He already payed for trying and probably wont get his money back. BSG and the community thank for the contribution, better luck next time. I recommend doing some research about any Early Access game before buying, so this wont happen. Its absolutely clear and has always been, that EFT is not for everyone nor is it gonna be. The fact that its at a semi-casual stage right now doesnt change that. If you dont believe the conspiracy theorists who claim that BSG is lying about everything they say, EFT is only gonna get more HC, which means a harder, steeper and taller learning curve too. Theres many more complex mechanics coming to make it even more complex in its entirety.

2) No harm here indeed, this player should then seek out sth else to play

3) No harm to the player if he truly wants that and no harm to BSG either, except that its one less player providing data about everything related to the online experience. Not a big loss Id say, goals for concurrent players in beta have been surpassed at least tenfold

4)Player can only do that by manipulating/changing/altering the game files/ downloading an additional client etc. Player is doing sth that is illegal and not permitted. Player is doing things that can increase the amount of piracy considering EFT, if it gets more widespread. Harm done? Absolutely, at least in BSGs eyes. Its not permitted for a reason. 

1 hour ago, Andrudis said:

ToC in not a law. If any statement in ToC conflicts with existing laws - it is a problem of ToC and whoever compiled it and is not a problem of player who accepted it. They can write in ToC that you are forbitten to breath while playing game - will you comply? BSG can ban anyone if they think that person violated ToC - true. They actually able to ban anyone without any valid reason just because they do not like that person for any reason. In most cases it is counter-productive to waste time and money to bring this to court, through there were successful cases already for illegal bans because ToC contain illegal terms that conflicted with existing laws in some countries.

They can just threaten the distributors of this offline mod with a lawsuit and thatll most probably do the job. Im not saying they can fully stop it from spreading, ofc weve seen that piracy will always find a way. Im not even anti-piracy myself. My whole point in all of this is that its very obvious why they wont allow this, the reasoning is very logical and doesnt differ from the reasoning of other games/ early access games. In the case of BSG and EFT, I wouldnt breach the ToC or any other agreement made with them, because they are a small indie studio making a game very passionately, a game Ive dreamed of when the hottest shooter around was Quake II Arena. Modding an unfinished title from a company that has for example promised to stay away from MCTs and the like is absolutely disrespectful and sends the wrong message. People should respect BSG for what theyve already accomplished with such a small team and weird game engine. 

One of the peeps in here was very arrogantly and with an entitled tone stating how "I have payed and I have a right" blah blah, just wanted to clear that out as it was complete bull shewdyloma. I dont like how entitled people are these days. :sctroll:

And to edit: BSG is still undecided about possible mod support. What do you think, will they be more fond about mods and modders, if people already mod their game when they havent finished the game, nor given the permission for it? For this reason too, its a shame people are so entitled and selfish. We might not get mod support at all if BSG gets mad at the modding community because of things like this.

Edited by p4nnus
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Andrudis

@p4nnus Thanks for sharing you opinion and spending so much time answering my questions! Have a good game!

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Niewiarygodny
2 hours ago, Andrudis said:

Can you name any reason how player who 1) paid for pre-order but 2) do not want to play online

2. if player bought ONLINE game (multiplayer) which DIDN"T and NEVER said anywhere, that there will be OFFLINE MODE WITH PROGRESSION (Single player) and DEMANDS from devs that it MUST have singleplayer campagian then sory, but such person is an idiot.

I don't go to the shop, buy milk and expect that it's gonna turn into cow, cause thats not what i bought.
(Stupid example for stupid ppl)

2 hours ago, Andrudis said:

3) play only offline locally instead - can possibly do any damage to devs?

DOesn't matter if they do or they don't do any damage to devs, they change/add/modify files = illegal, thats enough to ban them, what BSG should do, as any other developer.

Ok, but lets answer your question, how it can do damage to devs? Think first WHY devs said in one of podcasts "that adding offline servers hosted on PLAYERS PC might be a bad idea".
Actually they answered that question. (keep in mind that i am not a coder/programmer, i just have to belive it's true)

So the answer was that "Cheat developers would have easier job with testing their cheats"

 

2 hours ago, Andrudis said:

I am trying to argue just because there really exist a thin line between legal and illegal

Ofc there is, but sometimes whats legal/illegal is already decided by ToS, law, or other rules depends of situacion.
If you add/change/do anything with game files = u are doing illegal thing. Period.

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GlomeRoaming

They would more likely prevent this than the cheats and glitches and I think has more to with Unity than their will or ability. 

You get that with proprietary engines,  code that has been exploited for years. On the other end is custom engines that take time to create particularly by small dev teams and by the time game comes out fully people, hardware and hype has moved on. hello CSE and CU lol

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Angrybiker
2 hours ago, Niewiarygodny said:

So the answer was that "Cheat developers would have easier job with testing their cheats"

This^^ but do the devs really believe this doesn't already take place?.

Is it even possible to run a raid in online with only 1 PMC on map? So some game\server side code would need adjusting or the private server would just sit there matching forever I would imagine.

It's another argument that has gone on for a long time in online gaming, is it illegal to do this, yes is the answer(technically) but how is it enforceable if he does so for no gain other than playing it privately and never using that to play online, there is no malicious intent in what he is doing, if he hadn't freely admitted it, you would have never know.

It's like singing in the shower, technically you are breaching someones copyright by reproducing their material but how would one ever enforce it and should you even try?

Of course in online gaming people do this kind of stuff to find exploits and develop better cheats so it should absolutely be enforced and vehemently(sorry Andrudis) so but the question is, how?

 

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jasonchan122497
On 1/9/2021 at 7:30 PM, GeneralBrus said:

Let me correct you; You WANT a single player game made by BSG.

No no, NEED, it is just an opinion, but the way I see it, wipe after wipe and set back after set back, eventually it will kill the EFT player base, leaving only those who have attained all the best gear and hideout to dominate... unless a “wipe“ is part of the actual game once released... if periodic wipe is part of the actual game then I don't see the point, invest time and money just so it gets wiped?

 

let me put it this way, ”escape from tarkov NEEDS single player if it is to remain relevant in the future.

On 1/11/2021 at 5:02 AM, Prep0d said:

You isn't we

read the post and you will know I'm referring to a lot of the player base, not all. Just because you don't think we need one does not mean there aren't others that desperately want a single player Tarkov.

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Andrudis
1 hour ago, jasonchan122497 said:

unless a “wipe“ is part of the actual game once released... if periodic wipe is part of the actual game then I don't see the point, invest time and money just so it gets wiped?

Things can change, as we are just passed about 2/3 of the road to release, but current goals is that after final release there should be no global wipes. Current wipes are dictated by 2 main factors:

1) Development progress - changes to save format, character stats, adding skills etc. which can lead to old saved progress being incompatible with the new version

2) The need to test new content or re-test fixed/improved content

That is why periodical wipes are unavoidable during beta. Also that is why progression is currently is most likely much faster than intended for the final release. Devs need active players to be able to complete all quests and test all maps/guns/balance and give feedback on what is good, what could be improved and what needs to be fixed.

 

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jasonchan122497
44 minutes ago, Andrudis said:

Things can change, as we are just passed about 2/3 of the road to release, but current goals is that after final release there should be no global wipes. Current wipes are dictated by 2 main factors:

1) Development progress - changes to save format, character stats, adding skills etc. which can lead to old saved progress being incompatible with the new version

2) The need to test new content or re-test fixed/improved content

That is why periodical wipes are unavoidable during beta. Also that is why progression is currently is most likely much faster than intended for the final release. Devs need active players to be able to complete all quests and test all maps/guns/balance and give feedback on what is good, what could be improved and what needs to be fixed.

 

My point is that wipes are almost essential to the game now, without wipes, thick boys will continue to be thick, they snowball and roll over any and all players.

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