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jasonchan122497

We NEED single player

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jasonchan122497
6 minutes ago, ShiroTenshi said:

Well, yes and no. I have no doubt that there's plenty of people who download the emulator and never buy the game in the first place. Even though most emulators tell you that you need to download the game with an active account, there's also plenty of people redistributing the complete package and a 'pirated and cracked' full build. This wouldn't be possible without the existence of the emulators.

But you are right. EFT is a game and different people have different tastes. Fun is very much a subjective thing. Which is exactly why there's 2 projects. EFT was always sold as a exclusively online multiplayer experience while Russia 2028 was always talked about as a single player experience. There's no need to one to be like the other since they are games aimed at a specific audience with a specific experience in mind.

It's not really waster effort. All the knowledge, experience and skills they get from making EFT is going to be directly carried over to Russia 2028. But if you want to be more specific, all the assets created for EFT will also carry over to Russia 2028. You didn't think they'd spend hundreds of man hours creating all the guns, buildings, interiors, items, gear, etc and not re-use them in Russia 2028 did you?

How people enjoy the game is up to them. The DEVs create the atmosphere, ambience and mechanics and if some want to ignore it, that is up to them while others can and will enjoy it as it was intended. Even single player games have walkthroughs and speedruns and wikis. Being a single player game does not change this.

Using these resources or not is entirely up to each user. Someone using a wiki does in no way, shape or form affect your own enjoyment of the ambience and atmosphere.

I can see how one could be under that misconception based on the current state of the game. You read the thread about the vision but you missed the most basic thing about that thread: What we have now is nowhere close to what it will become. There's still a lot of changes that will change how the players have to play the game. Locked traders, locked maps, karma system, voip, the main story questline, etc.

Nikita has said it himself. The current iteration of EFT does not even come close to the way they want it to be and they are going to spend this entire year changing things to get it closer to the initial vision.

Right, thankyou for addressing all those things, and without a doubt you make convincing points, the intended purpose of this thread is just to let BSG know that there are a lot of us who are still waiting for R.2028 with baited breath, just wanted you guys to know we are still out there. 

Ready to buy the game, cash in hand, should the day R.2028 comes.

At the end of the day, this thread is just to whip up some controversy so that we can communicate with the developers, not to let the talk of R.2028 die down, still supporting BSG.

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p4nnus
1 hour ago, jasonchan122497 said:

1. My understanding is that the root of the game stems from R.2028, teased long before EFT or maybe even contract wars

Source? Or is it just your imagination? I thought Andrudis already cleared out your misconceptions about which came first, the chicken or the egg. Its all public information, found in Q&As and podcasts, and when we save you the effort and tell how it is, you imagine things about some SP roots. :useriously:

1 hour ago, jasonchan122497 said:

MMORPG does not rely on twitch mechanics, and almost instantaneous deaths for most instances. And secondly, MMORPGs allows for progression even without PVP, and here in lies my view point, snowballing is fine and dandy when it comes to MMORPGs because for the most part it does not affect others, but unlike MMORPGs, EFT mandates PvP for progression, making progression unbelievably unfair and hard for some when others have already snowballed.

Which is why EFT is labeled a realistic HC FPS(MMO)RPG. The twitch mechanics are a part of the FPS side and the instantaneous deaths are a part of the realistic HC side. Both might get tweaked, but neither suggest any kind of roots in SP games, quite the opposite. Youre not making any sense with what you write, seriously.

Snowballing affects others in every RPG where there is PVP. Some MMORPGs also require the player to attend in PVP. None of what this 2nd part contains has ANYTHING that even hints towards singleplayer games. Again, Im just stating the obvious. You lack such basic understanding about these genres and what defines them, that theres nothing good thats gonna come out of this discussion anymore. If youre not trolling, I recommend you do some research about these subjects before making similar posts, its incredibly frustrating to try to have a conversation with you bc you have so many things completely wrong.

EFT mandating PvP for progression is exactly what is meant to be, in a PvPvE MMORPGFPS with realistic and HC features. Its literally in the description of the game, no matter how you try to alternate truth or twist reality, theres nothing that hints to a SP core in EFT. Absolutely nothing. These tasks with PVP requirements have been in the game pretty much since the beginning. So theres that too.

1 hour ago, jasonchan122497 said:

The whole system seems so Jury-rigged together I find it hard to believe the developers planned a multi-player game from the ground up, but then again, you've made valid points.

You seem to be incapable of changing your opinion in light of actual information. Its nothing out of the ordinary, but seriously, theres no point in us having this conversation anymore. You havent made any valid points. No offense. GL HF! 

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Xarc
On 12/27/2020 at 5:40 PM, jasonchan122497 said:

We NEED a single player game made by BSG

You just have to wait for ... R.2028.

Until then, you have to accept the reality of this one.

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ShiroTenshi

Also, to clear any misconceptions:

I have seen people reference EFT as a 'Stepping Stone' to Russia 2028. This isn't wont, but what is wrong is the context in which people are using it.

BSG isn't going to abandon development of EFT for Russia 2028. BSG is going to finish EFT, then take all the things they learned from making EFT as well as all the assets, scripts and tools they made for EFT and then make a new game. Even after EFT is finished developing, they will still continue to support it in the way of DLC twice a year.

Before EFT was know as EFT, it was known as Russia 2028. That was the name given to the project as placeholder when they were making a proof of concept in Cryengine (Before they decided Unity would be better), until they came with a permanent name as the game was set in the Russia 2028 Universe. The next game may or may not be called Russia 2028 but only time will tell.

The existence of that proof of concept footage is what many have misinterpreted as them working on Russia 2028 before EFT. This is not true. Russia 2028 will be worked on AFTER EFT.

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jasonchan122497
15 minutes ago, p4nnus said:

Source? Or is it just your imagination? I thought Andrudis already cleared out your misconceptions about which came first, the chicken or the egg. Its all public information, found in Q&As and podcasts, and when we save you the effort and tell how it is, you imagine things about some SP roots. :useriously:

Which is why EFT is labeled a realistic HC FPS(MMO)RPG. The twitch mechanics are a part of the FPS side and the instantaneous deaths are a part of the realistic HC side. Both might get tweaked, but neither suggest any kind of roots in SP games, quite the opposite. Youre not making any sense with what you write, seriously.

Snowballing affects others in every RPG where there is PVP. Some MMORPGs also require the player to attend in PVP. None of what this 2nd part contains has ANYTHING that even hints towards singleplayer games. Again, Im just stating the obvious. You lack such basic understanding about these genres and what defines them, that theres nothing good thats gonna come out of this discussion anymore. If youre not trolling, I recommend you do some research about these subjects before making similar posts, its incredibly frustrating to try to have a conversation with you bc you have so many things completely wrong.

EFT mandating PvP for progression is exactly what is meant to be, in a PvPvE MMORPGFPS with realistic and HC features. Its literally in the description of the game, no matter how you try to alternate truth or twist reality, theres nothing that hints to a SP core in EFT. Absolutely nothing. These tasks with PVP requirements have been in the game pretty much since the beginning. So theres that too.

You seem to be incapable of changing your opinion in light of actual information. Its nothing out of the ordinary, but seriously, theres no point in us having this conversation anymore. You havent made any valid points. No offense. GL HF! 

Somehow you are adamant that none of my points are valid, but for crying out loud, just take a look at the glaring problems of the game, those who are constantly stuck in the quagmire that is mid and late wipe. That is the real reason why I say it doesn't work in multi-player, those who play it and realize there is no way they can progress simply left and never came back, resorting to only watching the game on twitch.

Yes you could say forget about those who couldn't "git gud" at the game, "go play fortnite" or something, but it doesn't address the fact that there are some fundamental problems with the design of the game, according to you the label FPSMMORPG fits like a glove, but think about it carefully now, an MMORPG that allows you to accumulate gear as you go, and an FPS that effectively takes away all your gear when you die, doesn't really sound similar does it? 

Sure snowballing affects other players in MMOs as well, but you getting 1 shotted by some high level player and getting teleported back to lumbridge isn't exactly the same as dying and losing all your gear is it? and it gets worse during later wipes as well doesn't it? when everyone is running around with Tier 5 helmets and you only have an AK with PS rounds simply because you didn't have the same amount of time like the streamers to play.

This alienates players, not saying you should cater to them, but new players are essential to an online game, whether you like it or not.

 

And you have convince me on certain things, like this post maybe made on the wrong forum category, or that different people have different tastes, same as some prefer the multiplayer, its just that you can't convince me that the game is built specifically with multiplayer in mind, it doesn't add up.

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p4nnus
1 hour ago, jasonchan122497 said:

Somehow you are adamant that none of my points are valid, but for crying out loud, just take a look at the glaring problems of the game, those who are constantly stuck in the quagmire that is mid and late wipe. That is the real reason why I say it doesn't work in multi-player, those who play it and realize there is no way they can progress simply left and never came back, resorting to only watching the game on twitch.

Okay, my last reply to you.

Just because its not complete or the progression is faster than in feature ready EFT, doesnt mean that it would work better in SP. Its a completely ridiculous thought that just portrays how little you basically know about the vision for EFT and whats still to be implemented. It was already explained to you that in the 1.0 there wont be wipes, so dont be stuck on the idea that some part of the wipe is problematic. The longevity was also discussed, BSG has many plans to make EFT fresh for peeps at the end game. So the "real reason" is sth that is temporary, something needed in the beta? Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds. 

Anyone can progress in EFT. Those that are really bad at it can just book a sherpa to basically carry them through the first quests, until they have the slightest idea whats going on. EFT is at its easiest right now anyways. Already pointed it out, it will only get harder. Sherpas will still be there, but it never was supposed to be and never will be for everyone. Those who play and realize they absolutely cant, are stupid and didnt do their homework and thus deserve to be rid of their money, as they had no idea what they are spending it on. There, I said it, those people deserve to lose their money! :schappy: Theyll be lucky if they lose sth without any thought, on sth so cheap as just 40-50e. Maybe it will teach them to do even the slightest of research on what they are using their money.

So yeah, let them watch. That way they will continue to contribute to the success of EFT, at least this way they wont be supporting piracy of it.

1 hour ago, jasonchan122497 said:

Yes you could say forget about those who couldn't "git gud" at the game, "go play fortnite" or something, but it doesn't address the fact that there are some fundamental problems with the design of the game, according to you the label FPSMMORPG fits like a glove, but think about it carefully now, an MMORPG that allows you to accumulate gear as you go, and an FPS that effectively takes away all your gear when you die, doesn't really sound similar does it? 

These are not problems to the target audience. We already went through this, please read what is written to you. The target audience, the "niche" that EFT is dev't for enjoys this kind of stuff. Its exciting, scary, heart-beat rising and addicting to have the risk vs reward. When its coupled with the unforgiving and (more) realistic (in the future) FPS mechanics, it not only immerses you in the world but also makes your brain genuinely care about your character. At least for the target audience as I said.

You were trying to very poorly describe some SP roots for EFT, which made no sense. Then you started ranting about noobs having it hard again. I described how these features are akin to some in MMORPG, rather than any SPs, but designed for this format, which is a hybrid. This hybrid is a realistic HC FPSRPG with MMO features, as described by BSG. PvPvE. 

If youre not trolling, you must really skip a lot that is written to you, let me explain again: EFT is a hybrid of existing genres that has roots in FPS and RPG games, with many features taken from MMORPG genre games, but changed up to suit this hybrid better. I.e. player driven economy etc. So its not about if its similar, but where this mixture comes from. It servers no purpose to say that "permadeath and gear accumulation doesnt sound like an MMORPG" because as to my knowledge it hasnt been done before. EFT makes up this new genre, theres nothing just like it. But to say that it has more core features from a SP game than MP, is the perfect portrayal of you ignorance and lack of knowledge about the subject.

1 hour ago, jasonchan122497 said:

when everyone is running around with Tier 5 helmets and you only have an AK with PS rounds simply because you didn't have the same amount of time like the streamers to play.

And again, you treat EFT as it was ready. All gear is more common than in the release ready game. 

OK, now Im done with you. As you said someone might read this and figure sth out. I have 0 faith you will figure anything out because you either troll, cant understand basic gaming concepts or dont even read whats written to you. But heres to the change that someone else might! :useriously:

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Niewiarygodny
15 hours ago, jasonchan122497 said:

and saying ”wow this game is amazing, too bad a lot of us aren't good enough to enjoy it fully

1. I have no idea how u could have fun by playing EFT without other players on map. But ok, lets leave that argument cause we have think diffrent in this topic, i just personally don't get it, it would require poo ton of changes to make it "playable". 

2. It's EFT man, u don't need to be "good enough" to enjoy it fully. I know literally ppl with 10-15% SR who has millions in roubless, can run as full gears in most of the raids. 

But the thing is that everyone will see "enjoying fully while playing EFT" in a diffrent way.
FOr someone it will be hoarding more and more and more items/cash in stash.
For others it will be straight PVP.
Other will say it's progressing with quests, reaching Kappa.
Others will say that they just wanna shoot from nice modded weapons.
Or just having "fair fights".

So if someone says "hey i have problems with gear" (which was an example given by others in this/other threads as why they would like to have Single Player with progression) then i am really sory, but it's totally invalid argument.
My friend who literally never played any FPS really liked EFT cause of modding system (ex soldier) and decided to try it out. 
He literally was super bad, i have to admit, he did struggle for a while, but once he got basics, he knew what to loot, where he can avoid ppl etc. He didn't have ANY problems with cash while having around 15% SR. ANd i can literally say that his skill was and still is +- as CS 1.6 bots on easy. 
 

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jasonchan122497

Alright alright, I get it, you guys like the game, no problems here, the game isn't finished, it'll get better etc. etc. I sort of expected this kind of response from the get go, and I'm not saying EFT needs to change, time and time again, I'm not saying EFT needs to become single-player, far from it, just read the actual thread. What I'm saying was hey look at this game, its awesome, and the same mechanics would be amazing in single-player.

The whole point of this thread is just to let BSG know there are a lot of community members still waiting for R.2028. and to push a little bit, less the devs forget just how many people are waiting for R.2028. The buzz is still there.

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mgoschie
On 1/12/2021 at 3:55 PM, p4nnus said:

The whole rat vs chad rhetoric is absolutely childish and arrived to this community as a parasite with people who are not the target audience for EFT. These people dont know what the game is supposed to be like nor what its gonna be like in the future. These people will either adapt or leave once we start to go towards true HC tarkov again. Im guesstimating that the armor plate update and removal of ADAD will probably do it.

We had full servers in 2017. There was maybe 10 000 players back then, but never concurrently. You just portray how little you know just like so many other noobs before you in this thread. And to be exact, I couldnt care less if someone is a noob. Ive been a noob in EFT, everyone is when they start, ofc. The point is, I didnt try to change the game fundamentally, or make it easier, just because I was having a hard time. I overcame the challenge and now Im pretty good at EFT. Without abusing movement mechanics or using meta stuff that is for pussies. 

What OP suggested wouldnt even bring noobs to the servers, but take them out of the servers. Do you even realize that?

"20min queues" Never waited for that long, not even 2017. You dont know what youre talking about.

"can't be remotely successful there is a fundamental problem with the game" Incorrect. Noobs can be succesful, it just means sth else to a noob than someone who is high lvl or seasoned. A noob is succesful if he escapes out of the raid alive with a little loot. Doing that is easier in EFT than it has ever been before. Making money is easier too. Theres a lot more loot than there used to be. You can scav to Reserve to kill Raiders for end-game gear, straight from the get-go. EFT is in easy mode, according to me and according to BSG. If you believe them, you should accept the fact that EFT is only gonna get more HC. Its gonna get more complex too. There might be a tutorial to newbs at some point, but it wont change the steep and tall learning curve. Its not meant to, as the curve is intended to be so. Again, accept it or dont. 

I have played a lot of Early Access games, HC survival games, pretty much everything there is that could even somewhat compare with EFT. The comparisons are not strong as EFT is quite different, but Ive seen games thrive that dont listen to entitled noobs demanding for easiness. If you think otherwise, you just come from a more casual background. :scwhistle:

Oh jeebus. This thread has been demolished by rants with opinions that are super cemented.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too. In this way, you cannot state there is a target audience when a game has been playable for 3 years. Whatever target you were aiming for clearly hasn't hit. True HC Tarkov is never going to happen when streamers bring in more players than your rants all over this forum. The best we can hope for is a hybrid between the two. Regardless, your ad hominem rhetoric is shameful and speaks way more about your values as a Tarkov player.

New player base growth is based on the rate of players brought into a game, not what game mode they will be playing. Even then, we would see a positive increase in players within multiplayer as those who are noobs will eventually graduate and populate the multiplayer servers. The issue is that these players play a handful of games then quit never to see the beauty of Tarkov again. Why? Because the learning curve for this game is significantly too steep for the casual gamer. A problem that ArmA has fixed by implementing single player, coop, and sandbox environments.

I would like full servers with less than 5 minute queue times, but at the moment I never get them. Anything over 5 minutes to connect into a multiplayer game is atrocious by today's standards. This only decreases the rate of new players playing the game! If you haven't had 20 minute queue times in this game then you truly don't know what you are talking about. Perhaps your reality is so warped, you zone out for the entire 20 minutes ranting upon this forum?

Anything less than a 50% survival rate, in my own opinion, is unsuccessful. I can guarantee you that every noob and new player that has played 10 games hasn't survived more than 5 games. Whereas veterans, and skilled players, will survive more than 5 games resulting in an exponential amount of loot compared to their counterparts. This creates a snowball effect that has and will continue to happen in EFT. The result are noobs running hatchling builds to complete tasks on customs because they know they will die. The excitement of picking up a nice kit squandered by the fact that they can't even use it because someone is rocking a lapua, vector, stacked m4, or mk18 with thicc ass armor. This someone doesn't care about loot. They only care about PMC kills, and will go to the end of the map just to slaughter your ass even though you literally have nothing.

The problem with this statement is that I left out how much time these two categories of players actually have to play. 10 games with an average of 40 minutes per game results in 400 minutes which equates to a little over 6.5 hours! Good luck getting a new noob player to sit down and play Tarkov for 6.5 hours in a day, or even a week.

A single player mode would fix this issue. It would allow new noob players to play at their own pace with higher survival rates, so that they gain confidence and happiness. Once they have blossomed and feel confident with themselves, they can venture into multiplayer.

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jasonchan122497
21 minutes ago, mgoschie said:

Oh jeebus. This thread has been demolished by rants with opinions that are super cemented.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too. In this way, you cannot state there is a target audience when a game has been playable for 3 years. Whatever target you were aiming for clearly hasn't hit. True HC Tarkov is never going to happen when streamers bring in more players than your rants all over this forum. The best we can hope for is a hybrid between the two. Regardless, your ad hominem rhetoric is shameful and speaks way more about your values as a Tarkov player.

New player base growth is based on the rate of players brought into a game, not what game mode they will be playing. Even then, we would see a positive increase in players within multiplayer as those who are noobs will eventually graduate and populate the multiplayer servers. The issue is that these players play a handful of games then quit never to see the beauty of Tarkov again. Why? Because the learning curve for this game is significantly too steep for the casual gamer. A problem that ArmA has fixed by implementing single player, coop, and sandbox environments.

I would like full servers with less than 5 minute queue times, but at the moment I never get them. Anything over 5 minutes to connect into a multiplayer game is atrocious by today's standards. This only decreases the rate of new players playing the game! If you haven't had 20 minute queue times in this game then you truly don't know what you are talking about. Perhaps your reality is so warped, you zone out for the entire 20 minutes ranting upon this forum?

Anything less than a 50% survival rate, in my own opinion, is unsuccessful. I can guarantee you that every noob and new player that has played 10 games hasn't survived more than 5 games. Whereas veterans, and skilled players, will survive more than 5 games resulting in an exponential amount of loot compared to their counterparts. This creates a snowball effect that has and will continue to happen in EFT. The result are noobs running hatchling builds to complete tasks on customs because they know they will die. The excitement of picking up a nice kit squandered by the fact that they can't even use it because someone is rocking a lapua, vector, stacked m4, or mk18 with thicc ass armor. This someone doesn't care about loot. They only care about PMC kills, and will go to the end of the map just to slaughter your ass even though you literally have nothing.

The problem with this statement is that I left out how much time these two categories of players actually have to play. 10 games with an average of 40 minutes per game results in 400 minutes which equates to a little over 6.5 hours! Good luck getting a new noob player to sit down and play Tarkov for 6.5 hours in a day, or even a week.

A single player mode would fix this issue. It would allow new noob players to play at their own pace with higher survival rates, so that they gain confidence and happiness. Once they have blossomed and feel confident with themselves, they can venture into multiplayer.

Thanks, whilst I understand that there are those who love the game as it is, it isn't the full picture, those who played the game and realize the ridiculous imbalance it has will just simply leave and never come back, no one in their right mind would spend the time to comment, and those who have the time to invest or simply love the "Hatchling" dynamic remain, causing this forum to reflect an imbalanced representation of opinion on the game.

Truth is, the vast majority of the players simply just left, because they aren't here for the incredibly unrewarding time investment, they were here because Tarkov gunplay is unrivaled in any FPS, the customisation, everything, but boy everything surrounding that bars them from realistically playing the game for enjoyment.

Tarkov should remain as is, because clearly people love it, but its such a shame there are so many that just left when there is so much more on offer, that's why people want R.2028, so that they can enjoy the game as well, it will bring more people to Tarkov, without a doubt.

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p4nnus
1 hour ago, mgoschie said:

Oh jeebus. This thread has been demolished by rants with opinions that are super cemented.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too. In this way, you cannot state there is a target audience when a game has been playable for 3 years. Whatever target you were aiming for clearly hasn't hit. True HC Tarkov is never going to happen when streamers bring in more players than your rants all over this forum. The best we can hope for is a hybrid between the two. Regardless, your ad hominem rhetoric is shameful and speaks way more about your values as a Tarkov player.

I dont think you know what target audience means then. Its been very clearly stated what it is. The thing is, EFT hit its target goal for concurrent players for the whole beta, BEFORE there was any twitch events. This has been mentioned in the thread. So we didnt need the streamers according to BSG, they were on top of the reached goal. OFC the money they bring is nice and welcome, but dont think that they dictate what EFT becomes. It got popular for being different and unique, particularly on the HC side, so why would BSG start making sth less interesting and less different, when the saturation of the FPS market is the reason why they stand out so well?

Show me the ad hominem now and Ill prove how its not one. Weak to just mention it without going to detail! :scwhink:

1 hour ago, mgoschie said:

New player base growth is based on the rate of players brought into a game, not what game mode they will be playing. Even then, we would see a positive increase in players within multiplayer as those who are noobs will eventually graduate and populate the multiplayer servers. The issue is that these players play a handful of games then quit never to see the beauty of Tarkov again. Why? Because the learning curve for this game is significantly too steep for the casual gamer. A problem that ArmA has fixed by implementing single player, coop, and sandbox environments.

None of this matters, as these noobs can already play and practice offline. What OP suggested was basically, through a very strange way, that EFT dev't is ceased and Russia 2028 dev't is started. If I got it correctly.. it was kinda all over the place, but anyways. If its about practicing, they can already do that. Even that was not promised, but what was promised was very unforgiving and hard gameplay with a steep and tall learning curve. If some players are too impatient to go through the, at first seemingly overwhelming, but in reality not that difficult to conquer period of learning the game, its not the games fault. Theres literally dozens of games that provide all these hand-holding mechanics to the player, but now that theres one that doesnt, it should be changed? Do you even realize that the lack of this hand-holding makes the learning experience A LOT more fulfilling, especially if you dont use external help like guides and sherpas. 

EFT is not designed for casual gamers. How hard is that to understand? :schappy:

And no, ARMA didnt fix any problems by implementing SP, coop and sandbox environments. It always had them, starting from Operation Flashpoint, which was btw the 2nd FPS I ever bought, after Quake II Arena. You come here to drop these "ad hominem rhetoric" bombs and say in the next paragraph how ARMA fixed sth for noobs by providing features, that were always supposed to be there and were there since beginning. Youve got to be kidding me! This thread just keeps on giving, doesnt it? :sctroll:

1 hour ago, mgoschie said:

I would like full servers with less than 5 minute queue times, but at the moment I never get them. Anything over 5 minutes to connect into a multiplayer game is atrocious by today's standards. This only decreases the rate of new players playing the game! If you haven't had 20 minute queue times in this game then you truly don't know what you are talking about. Perhaps your reality is so warped, you zone out for the entire 20 minutes ranting upon this forum?

Lets go through this point by point:

1) Select more servers or disconnect from the queue after 5 mins. It shouldnt take that long in almost any region. Unless you are playing from Antarctica. Not that this connecting time has anything to do with what were discussing, it doesnt take me that long even during the most quiet hours. The problem is on your end most probably and certainly not about a lack of players. You do realize that weve had a crazy amount of server hiccups lately? The reason hasnt been stated, but when it will be, Id put 100 000 000 roubles on it being about server loads being so damn high.

2) If you have waited for 20 mins, you are both stoically patient and extremely unaware of what you should do when suffering from +5min load times. Again, select more servers or check your other internet settings, sth is wrong at your end. If you dont find a match with all the possible servers selected, in under 5 mins, try to queue again. No worries, my pleasure, I got you. 

3) If you read through this whole thread, you will realize that theres quite a few people here talking about things without knowing at all how these things are in reality. Saying that I have a warped reality for 20mins is kinda lame, as I dont have to wait that long, I get in to matches in max 3-4mins even during the quietest hours. You and anyone else suffering from +5 waits should do sth about it. I think its funny that you talk about my reality being warped, when I would absolutely NEVER wait that long! Hahah its a funny thought tho, I can respect your patience! 

1 hour ago, mgoschie said:

Anything less than a 50% survival rate, in my own opinion, is unsuccessful. I can guarantee you that every noob and new player that has played 10 games hasn't survived more than 5 games. Whereas veterans, and skilled players, will survive more than 5 games resulting in an exponential amount of loot compared to their counterparts. This creates a snowball effect that has and will continue to happen in EFT. The result are noobs running hatchling builds to complete tasks on customs because they know they will die. The excitement of picking up a nice kit squandered by the fact that they can't even use it because someone is rocking a lapua, vector, stacked m4, or mk18 with thicc ass armor. This someone doesn't care about loot. They only care about PMC kills, and will go to the end of the map just to slaughter your ass even though you literally have nothing.

I agree. 50% is a succesful Tarkov player, though one can define succesful in other ways as well. I guess its more important that the player enjoys himself. In my opinion, anything less than 70% is bad and it has to come with at least +2 PK/D. Anyways, noobs are supposed to have it tough in the beginning. Its a part of the process, a part of the appeal. Its what makes breaking through and getting there, getting to the stage where one can compete with the vets so much more satisfying. Some dont have what it takes to break through, but theres help to be had from many places. I.e. sherpas and many non-bsg affiliated groups & communities. If one decides to take the challenge alone, he is willingly doing it while being outmanned on top of being outgunned and outskilled. Again, all a part of the experience, an experience that was never meant to please everyone. Those who cant handle it should seek out more casual experiences, instead of entitledly demanding changes to the experience. Pff, kids these days.. its all about me, myself and I! 

But yeah, how people play EFT will go through changes, though probably not such that the changes would prevent PVP. If peeps are looking for a PVE experience, they can raid offline, wait for Russia 2028 or choose a different game. I dont really know how this is even connected to anything anymore, seems like you are the one whos ranting, off-topic too. 

1 hour ago, mgoschie said:

The problem with this statement is that I left out how much time these two categories of players actually have to play. 10 games with an average of 40 minutes per game results in 400 minutes which equates to a little over 6.5 hours! Good luck getting a new noob player to sit down and play Tarkov for 6.5 hours in a day, or even a week.

A single player mode would fix this issue. It would allow new noob players to play at their own pace with higher survival rates, so that they gain confidence and happiness. Once they have blossomed and feel confident with themselves, they can venture into multiplayer.

Oh my goodness, a whopping 6.5 hours. That could be the lifetime of some little insect! Truly, we should add killcam, we should remove the economy and just give everything to everyone. Or then just not.

There is an offline mode and in the future it can be accessed with friends too. But no progression, as thats simply not a part of the vision for EFT. Noobs have plenty of choices on how to practice, many have no risk of losing things while there is everything to gain. Like scav rounds and Sherpa assisted rounds. Those who cant deal with the world of Tarkov even with these systems to help them, can go blossom in sth thats a little bit easier and then come back to see if they can handle it. Its not like they can play the game without buying it, so they can always return. :scwhink:

So anyways, a lot of effort to answer to your rant, but one thing is 100% certain and final: there wont be a SP mode, no matter how much vets kick noobs bottoms, no matter how many noobs quit immediately because they thought they can be as good as their favourite streamer, immediately. A niche game for a niche audience. Deal with it or dont, I dont care. 

Edited by p4nnus
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p4nnus
44 minutes ago, jasonchan122497 said:

Thanks, whilst I understand that there are those who love the game as it is, it isn't the full picture, those who played the game and realize the ridiculous imbalance it has will just simply leave and never come back, no one in their right mind would spend the time to comment, and those who have the time to invest or simply love the "Hatchling" dynamic remain, causing this forum to reflect an imbalanced representation of opinion on the game.

Hatchlings are basically gone, at least in a way where it hurts the game. Hatchlings hurt the game when they allowed for risk free money farming. If peeps run quests as hatchlings, without even a pistol, they will probably get killed by scavs more so than if they had a pistol. So thats kinda stupid from these fellas. 

45 minutes ago, jasonchan122497 said:

Truth is, the vast majority of the players simply just left, because they aren't here for the incredibly unrewarding time investment, they were here because Tarkov gunplay is unrivaled in any FPS, the customisation, everything, but boy everything surrounding that bars them from realistically playing the game for enjoyment.

And I say to them, make sure to find out what kind of game you are buying the next time, before buying. I also say to them, thanks for your contribution, your money will be well spent by BSG, so long and thanks for all the easy frags! 

Do we have to take the cheese back in to the picture? I thought you had an understanding about it already. I like blue cheese, tarkov is blue cheese. You like white cheese, tarkov is not white cheese. Remember? 

Theres plenty of white cheese in the store. A lot more than blue cheese. Stop trying to take the blue out of blue cheese, its not gonna happen.

47 minutes ago, jasonchan122497 said:

Tarkov should remain as is, because clearly people love it, but its such a shame there are so many that just left when there is so much more on offer, that's why people want R.2028, so that they can enjoy the game as well, it will bring more people to Tarkov, without a doubt.

Its not a shame at all, those people can return if they want later on. And they probably helped BSG get funding for the next.. Idk.. maybe 3 years? So theres nothing shameful in that. The lovers of white cheese might find blue cheese tasty at some point of their life. For now let them go, if you truly love them! :scwhink:

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AlmonDro

the game is in development, theres a lot features that will change to become more realistic and less twitchy/arcade-like/quirky. but this post and certain comments are too ranty/whiny.  crying about streamers and other good players that spend a lot of time in raids has nothing to do with the actual gameplay or direction of development. wanting to make an online multiplayer game into a single-player focused offline game is a pretty extreme shift at this stage of development .... we all deal with the same issues, cheaters, sound system, desync, armor/ammo imbalance.

Just play the game, or dont... but I would recommend playing it with friends. EFT is a better experience with a small group. Also offline raids are a thing and you can put a high number of angry scavs in the raid if you want an offline single-player challenge

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jasonchan122497
27 minutes ago, AlmonDro said:

the game is in development, theres a lot features that will change to become more realistic and less twitchy/arcade-like/quirky. but this post and certain comments are too ranty/whiny.  crying about streamers and other good players that spend a lot of time in raids has nothing to do with the actual gameplay or direction of development. wanting to make an online multiplayer game into a single-player focused offline game is a pretty extreme shift at this stage of development .... we all deal with the same issues, cheaters, sound system, desync, armor/ammo imbalance.

Just play the game, or dont... but I would recommend playing it with friends. EFT is a better experience with a small group. Also offline raids are a thing and you can put a high number of angry scavs in the raid if you want an offline single-player challenge

Please don't misunderstand me, EFT and its community shouldn't change, never have i said it should.

I am here to state that many are waiting for a single player counter part of EFT, and the whiny bits sound whiny because those are complaints, much of the focus is spent on listening and paying attention to the upper echelon of the Tarkov base, the streamers, the chads, so on... those who are at the bottom needs a voice as well, and that's what I'm trying to do.

My opinion is that there is a clear disconnect between a large number of the players and the devs, and the "take it or leave it" attitude is going to push more potential players away. It is a beta test, I get it, but that's why we are here discussing about the game aren't we?

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mgoschie
1 hour ago, p4nnus said:

I dont think you know what target audience means then. Its been very clearly stated what it is. The thing is, EFT hit its target goal for concurrent players for the whole beta, BEFORE there was any twitch events. This has been mentioned in the thread. So we didnt need the streamers according to BSG, they were on top of the reached goal. OFC the money they bring is nice and welcome, but dont think that they dictate what EFT becomes. It got popular for being different and unique, particularly on the HC side, so why would BSG start making sth less interesting and less different, when the saturation of the FPS market is the reason why they stand out so well?

Show me the ad hominem now and Ill prove how its not one. Weak to just mention it without going to detail! :scwhink:

None of this matters, as these noobs can already play and practice offline. What OP suggested was basically, through a very strange way, that EFT dev't is ceased and Russia 2028 dev't is started. If I got it correctly.. it was kinda all over the place, but anyways. If its about practicing, they can already do that. Even that was not promised, but what was promised was very unforgiving and hard gameplay with a steep and tall learning curve. If some players are too impatient to go through the, at first seemingly overwhelming, but in reality not that difficult to conquer period of learning the game, its not the games fault. Theres literally dozens of games that provide all these hand-holding mechanics to the player, but now that theres one that doesnt, it should be changed? Do you even realize that the lack of this hand-holding makes the learning experience A LOT more fulfilling, especially if you dont use external help like guides and sherpas. 

EFT is not designed for casual gamers. How hard is that to understand? :schappy:

And no, ARMA didnt fix any problems by implementing SP, coop and sandbox environments. It always had them, starting from Operation Flashpoint, which was btw the 2nd FPS I ever bought, after Quake II Arena. You come here to drop these "ad hominem rhetoric" bombs and say in the next paragraph how ARMA fixed sth for noobs by providing features, that were always supposed to be there and were there since beginning. Youve got to be kidding me! This thread just keeps on giving, doesnt it? :sctroll:

Lets go through this point by point:

1) Select more servers or disconnect from the queue after 5 mins. It shouldnt take that long in almost any region. Unless you are playing from Antarctica. Not that this connecting time has anything to do with what were discussing, it doesnt take me that long even during the most quiet hours. The problem is on your end most probably and certainly not about a lack of players. You do realize that weve had a crazy amount of server hiccups lately? The reason hasnt been stated, but when it will be, Id put 100 000 000 roubles on it being about server loads being so damn high.

2) If you have waited for 20 mins, you are both stoically patient and extremely unaware of what you should do when suffering from +5min load times. Again, select more servers or check your other internet settings, sth is wrong at your end. If you dont find a match with all the possible servers selected, in under 5 mins, try to queue again. No worries, my pleasure, I got you. 

3) If you read through this whole thread, you will realize that theres quite a few people here talking about things without knowing at all how these things are in reality. Saying that I have a warped reality for 20mins is kinda lame, as I dont have to wait that long, I get in to matches in max 3-4mins even during the quietest hours. You and anyone else suffering from +5 waits should do sth about it. I think its funny that you talk about my reality being warped, when I would absolutely NEVER wait that long! Hahah its a funny thought tho, I can respect your patience! 

I agree. 50% is a succesful Tarkov player, though one can define succesful in other ways as well. I guess its more important that the player enjoys himself. In my opinion, anything less than 70% is bad and it has to come with at least +2 PK/D. Anyways, noobs are supposed to have it tough in the beginning. Its a part of the process, a part of the appeal. Its what makes breaking through and getting there, getting to the stage where one can compete with the vets so much more satisfying. Some dont have what it takes to break through, but theres help to be had from many places. I.e. sherpas and many non-bsg affiliated groups & communities. If one decides to take the challenge alone, he is willingly doing it while being outmanned on top of being outgunned and outskilled. Again, all a part of the experience, an experience that was never meant to please everyone. Those who cant handle it should seek out more casual experiences, instead of entitledly demanding changes to the experience. Pff, kids these days.. its all about me, myself and I! 

But yeah, how people play EFT will go through changes, though probably not such that the changes would prevent PVP. If peeps are looking for a PVE experience, they can raid offline, wait for Russia 2028 or choose a different game. I dont really know how this is even connected to anything anymore, seems like you are the one whos ranting, off-topic too. 

Oh my goodness, a whopping 6.5 hours. That could be the lifetime of some little insect! Truly, we should add killcam, we should remove the economy and just give everything to everyone. Or then just not.

There is an offline mode and in the future it can be accessed with friends too. But no progression, as thats simply not a part of the vision for EFT. Noobs have plenty of choices on how to practice, many have no risk of losing things while there is everything to gain. Like scav rounds and Sherpa assisted rounds. Those who cant deal with the world of Tarkov even with these systems to help them, can go blossom in sth thats a little bit easier and then come back to see if they can handle it. Its not like they can play the game without buying it, so they can always return. :scwhink:

So anyways, a lot of effort to answer to your rant, but one thing is 100% certain and final: there wont be a SP mode, no matter how much vets kick noobs bottoms, no matter how many noobs quit immediately because they thought they can be as good as their favourite streamer, immediately. A niche game for a niche audience. Deal with it or dont, I dont care. 

Look how long this is, so much passion for such a weak position. The only line I bothered reading was "Deal with it or dont, I dont care." You clearly do care, and you are very deliberately attacking others with opposing ideals because you care very very deeply.

Anyways, I'd refer you to some self help books, or presentations, but I think you might be well beyond that.

You can continue to respond, but anything that is this long and unconcise is never being read.

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jasonchan122497
3 minutes ago, mgoschie said:

Look how long this is, so much passion for such a weak position. The only line I bothered reading was "Deal with it or dont, I dont care." You clearly do care, and you are very deliberately attacking others with opposing ideals because you care very very deeply.

Anyways, I'd refer you to some self help books, or presentations, but I think you might be well beyond that.

You can continue to respond, but anything that is this long and unconcise is never being read.

I agree, but not completely, he did make some valid points, there is a large number of members in the EFT community that loves the game as it is, its just a shame that they wouldn't listen to those who have a different view.

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keyciraptor
vor 15 Stunden schrieb ShiroTenshi:

 when they were making a proof of concept in Cryengine (Before they decided Unity would be better)

The biggest mistake was made here^^ From a real super strong engine to a mobile game engine and now they cant even fix simple things like dsync^^

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ShiroTenshi
3 hours ago, keyciraptor said:

The biggest mistake was made here^^ From a real super strong engine to a mobile game engine and now they cant even fix simple things like dsync^^

Unity isn't a mobile engine. To say so only shows how much you don't understand the different engines and what they are capable of.

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p4nnus
10 hours ago, mgoschie said:

Look how long this is, so much passion for such a weak position. The only line I bothered reading was "Deal with it or dont, I dont care." You clearly do care, and you are very deliberately attacking others with opposing ideals because you care very very deeply.

I know you dont deserve such a thorough answer, but what can I say, I like to be thorough. Still waiting on your examples of ad hominems, mr "Arma has SP and Coop bc of noobs"! :schappy:

I dont care about the fact that some noobs cant handle it and quit, nor that you and some others cant accept the reality that there wont be a proper SP mode in EFT, which has been confirmed multiple times. I do care about people whining entitledly about stupid things on the forums, making duplicate threads against the rules, as they are cluttering the forums and thus making good conversations about actual SUGGESTIONS drown in this crop. Crop of feces. Y'know what Im saying? I do care very much about EFT and I care about its dev't. Thats exactly why Im willing to go through this effort to blast your silly ideas and thoughts down and not really even to prove to you or to jason that you are wrong, but to some people that can actually think and even do some research about the subjects on their own. As was said before, others might read this thread and learn sth from it. Im hoping they will learn how silly it is to claim these things you guys are claiming, or how entitled one must be to demand for certain features in a game that was never supposed to have them. I think you guys make for an excellent case in point! :scwhink:

Im also willing to go through the small effort of explaining why the train of thoughts never really left the station with you and jason, you people dont know what you guys are talking about, what EFT is and is supposed to become, what has been promised, why etc. You also cant fathom why EFT is very popular for being such a niche genre game. Ive explained all of these things to my best knowledge, Im sure someone will benefit from it in the long run. 

Everything has been explained already, but ofc as you wont read whats been written (tbh probably couldnt even understand it) and jason doesnt understand half of what is being said because he has this false narrative of a SP core in EFT, over-ruling any real arguments, theres no hope to get you guys to realize anything. At the same time, I cant lie, I do enjoy the wacky ideas and imaginative stretches you guys make, like the "SP core of EFT" or "Arma SP and coop for noobs", those thoughts are way beyond my imagination and I thought my imagination was good! :sctroll:

10 hours ago, jasonchan122497 said:

Please don't misunderstand me, EFT and its community shouldn't change, never have i said it should.

10 hours ago, jasonchan122497 said:

there is a large number of members in the EFT community that loves the game as it is, its just a shame that they wouldn't listen to those who have a different view.

You say these things in different posts, but right after each other. As a sign of me wanting to truly understand your goals here, please can you rephrase once how you want BSG to listen to your different views, without changing EFT or its community? What is it that youre actually after?

You dont want the game to change, but its a shame that those who dont love it how it is (AND NOTE as its going to be, its nowhere near done) should be listened? I dont understand, seriously.

 

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jasonchan122497
4 minutes ago, p4nnus said:

I know you dont deserve such a thorough answer, but what can I say, I like to be thorough. Still waiting on your examples of ad hominems, mr "Arma has SP and Coop bc of noobs"! :schappy:

I dont care about the fact that some noobs cant handle it and quit, nor that you and some others cant accept the reality that there wont be a proper SP mode in EFT, which has been confirmed multiple times. I do care about people whining entitledly about stupid things on the forums, making duplicate threads against the rules, as they are cluttering the forums and thus making good conversations about actual SUGGESTIONS drown in this crop. Crop of feces. Y'know what Im saying? I do care very much about EFT and I care about its dev't. Thats exactly why Im willing to go through this effort to blast your silly ideas and thoughts down and not really even to prove to you or to jason that you are wrong, but to some people that can actually think and even do some research about the subjects on their own. As was said before, others might read this thread and learn sth from it. Im hoping they will learn how silly it is to claim these things you guys are claiming, or how entitled one must be to demand for certain features in a game that was never supposed to have them. I think you guys make for an excellent case in point! :scwhink:

Im also willing to go through the small effort of explaining why the train of thoughts never really left the station with you and jason, you people dont know what you guys are talking about, what EFT is and is supposed to become, what has been promised, why etc. You also cant fathom why EFT is very popular for being such a niche genre game. Ive explained all of these things to my best knowledge, Im sure someone will benefit from it in the long run. 

Everything has been explained already, but ofc as you wont read whats been written (tbh probably couldnt even understand it) and jason doesnt understand half of what is being said because he has this false narrative of a SP core in EFT, over-ruling any real arguments, theres no hope to get you guys to realize anything. At the same time, I cant lie, I do enjoy the wacky ideas and imaginative stretches you guys make, like the "SP core of EFT" or "Arma SP and coop for noobs", those thoughts are way beyond my imagination and I thought my imagination was good! :sctroll:

You say these things in different posts, but right after each other. As a sign of me wanting to truly understand your goals here, please can you rephrase once how you want BSG to listen to your different views, without changing EFT or its community? What is it that youre actually after?

 

Alright, lets once and for all make my position clear so that we understand each other:

1. The main purpose of this thread is to let BSG know that many of us are still waiting for R.2028 with baited breath. EFT shouldn't turn single-player, that's not what anyone wants, you should continue to like what you like, I'm not here to piss on your bonfire, but many are still waiting for R.2028 so don't forget us.

2. EFT is a great game, but you cannot deny there are fundamental flaws with the underlying gameplay formula, causing many players to be alienated, Hardcore is good, but when it feels cheap and unfair (like snowballing) it needs to be addressed, which I'm sure it will be as development continues.

3. (This was an opinion irrelevant to the actual thread, but it is a tangent I went on which I want to make clear) I feel like much of EFT has the base DNA of a single-player game, and considering they are working much of EFT's mechanics, gameplay, assets etc. etc. into R.2028, I feel like it is a fair opinion that much of what EFT seems like it was retro fitted into a multiplayer game, and not a multiplayer game built from the ground up.

4. I understand you don't care whether new players stick with Tarkov, but whether you like it or not, new players are essential to a multiplayer game like Tarkov. Any game could have a steep learning curve, but having a steep learning curve and a neglected player-base are two very different things.

Your hostility is due to the fact that you think I'm being entitled, but I know none of this have to be implemented, I'm just here to tell you the struggles of newer players, and perhaps stress the importance that even if you don't have to cater to the new players, you needn't make their experience dog shite to bring the "we are hardcore" point across, there is a reason why so many left the game behind and didn't have to be this way.

And see it this way, people are posting these things all the time because it means people care about the game, and it doesn't help that the response they get is always take it or leave it.

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p4nnus
42 minutes ago, jasonchan122497 said:

1. The main purpose of this thread is to let BSG know that many of us are still waiting for R.2028 with baited breath. EFT shouldn't turn single-player, that's not what anyone wants, you should continue to like what you like, I'm not here to piss on your bonfire, but many are still waiting for R.2028 so don't forget us.

Okay. Got you. While this might kinda be the wrong place to post this and your wording was not the best at times, I dont think this thread should be deleted or anything; it can serve the purpose of teaching people what the nature of EFT truly is and what/when to expect Russia 2028.

This still doesnt explain why you think youre not being listened to, while not understanding that its not EFT yet, its WIP, not done and thus shouldnt be judged as sth thats complete. You said you dont want it to change, but then that you should be listened to? In what way? Seriously, BSG hasnt even officially announced Russia 2028 so that people should be expecting it in even the next few years, so why would you be demanding for them to listen to you about anything Russia 2028 related? 

You yourself said, "eft shouldnt change" and "its a shame they didnt listen to those with a different view"? Do you realize how contradicting that is? :useriously:

42 minutes ago, jasonchan122497 said:

2. EFT is a great game, but you cannot deny there are fundamental flaws with the underlying gameplay formula, causing many players to be alienated, Hardcore is good, but when it feels cheap and unfair (like snowballing) it needs to be addressed, which I'm sure it will be as development continues.

These are not flaws. They are fundamental parts of the game, supposed to make it exciting and interesting to the target audience. If people, who are not the target audience, get alienated, they just bought access to the wrong beta. EFT is most definitely supposed to be unfair, but theres nothing cheap about it, as its completely intended. There are a lot of peeps who have overcame the starting difficulties and then understand how great it is to have such a steep uphill battle, they are just not the most vocal forum users.

So anyways, I wouldnt be so sure, actually Im 100% sure that you will be disappointed if you think that. Im repeating myself but anyways, BSG has stated numerous upon numerous times that the game is only gonna get more HC. We even have a BSG crew member detailing that just a little bit in this exact thread, right before your eyes. If you still live in your own fantasy about that, I dont know what to tell you. I guess I still told you everything there is to tell anyways! 

42 minutes ago, jasonchan122497 said:

3. (This was an opinion irrelevant to the actual thread, but it is a tangent I went on which I want to make clear) I feel like much of EFT has the base DNA of a single-player game, and considering they are working much of EFT's mechanics, gameplay, assets etc. etc. into R.2028, I feel like it is a fair opinion that much of what EFT seems like it was retro fitted into a multiplayer game, and not a multiplayer game built from the ground up.

Yeah I got this one. Youve just severely misunderstood what features are derived from what genres and how they make a fusion in EFT. Theres nothing wrong with misunderstanding, I think you even pointed out that you were talking about these things as your opinions and not as sth that would actually be true. Theyre not true, like Ive explained. Man I hate this post-truth era, its taxing as heck!

Remember, that uninformed opinions are not as good as informed ones. You have the chance to be informed about this subject from now on. I can recommend watching the podcasts & Q&As, if you do that you will understand what Ive tried so hard to explain much better.

42 minutes ago, jasonchan122497 said:

4. I understand you don't care whether new players stick with Tarkov, but whether you like it or not, new players are essential to a multiplayer game like Tarkov. Any game could have a steep learning curve, but having a steep learning curve and a neglected player-base are two very different things.

EFT is not neglecting its playerbase by any means. This is sth you still dont understand. A tutorial has been promised, but a fletched out SP is not a part of the vision and it never was, so not having it is not neglecting the playerbase. The lack of handholding mechanics is intentional, but then again there are sherpas to help, for example. If one doesnt accept help and still sucks at the game and gives up, its not neglecting a part of the playerbase. Remember, you said you dont want to change EFT, right? I think you contradict yourself a lot.

42 minutes ago, jasonchan122497 said:

Your hostility is due to the fact that you think I'm being entitled, but I know none of this have to be implemented, I'm just here to tell you the struggles of newer players, and perhaps stress the importance that even if you don't have to cater to the new players, you needn't make their experience dog shite to bring the "we are hardcore" point across, there is a reason why so many left the game behind and didn't have to be this way.

And see it this way, people are posting these things all the time because it means people care about the game, and it doesn't help that the response they get is always take it or leave it.

Thats the thing. Youre here to say a lot of things, many of them contradict each other and you also have stated untrue things as more than your opinions too. If you would take the time to read the forums for a couple of days, you would notice that theres no need for you to tell the struggles of newer players, its been done in a rule breaking, duplicate post making manner every single day. You are entitled for making one of these duplicate posts, without following the forum rules of searching for similar subjects before posting. You entitledly think, that your idea about BSG not listening to some part of the playerbase, your idea about SP, whether in "the core of EFT" is SP or if the future Russia 2028 title is coming, is so important that it deserves its own post. As weve had this conversation that others can then find by searching for the subject and read the facts about, it legitimizes this thread to some extent, but that doesnt change the fact that you made this post in an entitled manner.

Its not about whether BSG caters to new players or not, its about them catering to an audience that WANTS a super HC and unforgiving experience with a steep and tall learning curve. That cant coexist in their vision, with handholding mechanics and easy-modes. They are not neglecting anyone that they ever tried to cater to, we just have a lot of people come and buy the game without finding out how it is, then complaining as its not how they thought it was. Thats on these people, not BSG. Their own fault for being so ignorant and impatient.

This is a re-occurring theme as well. Newbies that cant handle it come to complain how EFT is not for them, without realizing that they had the responsibility over their money, they shouldve found out what the game is like before buying it. If they dont understand what "a hardcore and realistic online first-person action RPG/Simulator with MMO features and a story-driven walkthrough" means, they couldve found out just by googling it in like 2 mins. Thats being entitled: thinking that its BSGs fault for making something different, when it was their responsibility to find out what it is and then making the decision.

My "hostility" is due to the fact that this is not the 1st, 2nd nor 3rd time I go through these subjects. And its not even hostility. I dont hate you, but I pity you and @mgoschie a little bit, because you clearly didnt know what you spent your money on or what to expect, nor do you know what youre talking about but you still do. I dont pity you a lot, no strong feelings in this one, mostly mediocre frustration with a hint of lack of faith in people/humanity. My language is mostly that of a Finn, we speak directly and honestly, but its not my 1st or 2nd language so everything is not portrayed perfectly. 

Edited by p4nnus

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mgoschie
2 hours ago, p4nnus said:

I know you dont deserve such a thorough answer, but what can I say, I like to be thorough. Still waiting on your examples of ad hominems, mr "Arma has SP and Coop bc of noobs"! :schappy:

The issue with this statement is that you don't know what ad hominem is. It is a fallacy employed by those with weak positions to attack the person of the argument rather than the argument itself. Shall we quote?

58 minutes ago, p4nnus said:

you clearly didnt know what you spent your money on or what to expect, nor do you know what youre talking about but you still do.

 

22 hours ago, p4nnus said:

Its a completely ridiculous thought that just portrays how little you basically know about the vision for EFT and whats still to be implemented.

 

3 hours ago, p4nnus said:

I do care about people whining entitledly about stupid things on the forums

 

3 hours ago, p4nnus said:

Thats exactly why Im willing to go through this effort to blast your silly ideas and thoughts down and not really even to prove to you or to jason that you are wrong, but to some people that can actually think and even do some research about the subjects on their own

 

3 hours ago, p4nnus said:

how entitled one must be to demand for certain features in a game that was never supposed to have them. I think you guys make for an excellent case in point!

 

3 hours ago, p4nnus said:

the train of thoughts never really left the station with you and jason

 

3 hours ago, p4nnus said:

you people dont know what you guys are talking about

 

3 hours ago, p4nnus said:

ofc as you wont read whats been written (tbh probably couldnt even understand it)

 

3 hours ago, p4nnus said:

he has this false narrative of a SP core in EFT, over-ruling any real arguments

 

15 hours ago, p4nnus said:

Those who cant handle it should seek out more casual experiences, instead of entitledly demanding changes to the experience. Pff, kids these days.. its all about me, myself and I! 

This is only two posts worth.... Shall I continue?

15 hours ago, p4nnus said:

Because the learning curve for this game is significantly too steep for the casual gamer. A problem that ArmA has fixed by implementing single player, coop, and sandbox environments.

I am going to quote myself because you didn't read my post. The learning curve of Operation Flashpoint, and ArmA 1/2/3 is incredibly steep. The intention of Operation Flashpoint was to create a military simulator. It didn't need single player, coop, or sandbox environments. It only needed multiplayer to function, however, they implemented these game modes and environments to broaden the scope of its player base. A decision that continued through every sequel, and was improved upon 10 fold each time. The result of which has been a very large diverse player base with veterans and noobs sustaining it. Other games have been spurred off of player generated mods that were designed within its framework.

I was given access to the alpha version of Operation Flashpoint and helped put input into these changes by communicating the learning curve to Bohemia Interactive. I am very glad that I did.

15 hours ago, p4nnus said:

In my opinion, anything less than 70% is bad and it has to come with at least +2 PK/D.

This right here is enough evidence to conclude you are the one that is entitled. You must have have this, and you must have that. You must have your cheeseburger with two pickles, or else it ain't a cheeseburger. Entitlement is founded within the cementation of ideals as it is demanding changes to them. You feel as if you are entitled for Tarkov never to change to anything other than your own opinions and you believe that you speak for all other players regardless of what they are actually saying.

A single player mode is a suggestion, and it will continue to be brought up because a percentage of Tarkov players want it. The developers have stated that it is something that will not happen, but players will continue to suggest it because they simply can. Is this entitlement? No. Why? Because these players are trying to actively improve the game by starting a conversation about it, and not immediately stating it is their right to have a single player mode. We are asking for it, not demanding it. Regardless, a position of entrenchment because you believe that it is your right that Tarkov be within a singular vision is, by definition, entitlement.

Every side has bad seeds therefore those in favor of a single player mode will always have those demanding it and those in disfavor will always have those entrenched in multiplayer. What do they both have in common? Entitlement.

23 hours ago, p4nnus said:

Okay, my last reply to you.

Unlike your statement, this is my last reply. Good luck!

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jasonchan122497
12 hours ago, p4nnus said:

Okay. Got you. While this might kinda be the wrong place to post this and your wording was not the best at times, I dont think this thread should be deleted or anything; it can serve the purpose of teaching people what the nature of EFT truly is and what/when to expect Russia 2028.

This still doesnt explain why you think youre not being listened to, while not understanding that its not EFT yet, its WIP, not done and thus shouldnt be judged as sth thats complete. You said you dont want it to change, but then that you should be listened to? In what way? Seriously, BSG hasnt even officially announced Russia 2028 so that people should be expecting it in even the next few years, so why would you be demanding for them to listen to you about anything Russia 2028 related? 

You yourself said, "eft shouldnt change" and "its a shame they didnt listen to those with a different view"? Do you realize how contradicting that is? :useriously:

These are not flaws. They are fundamental parts of the game, supposed to make it exciting and interesting to the target audience. If people, who are not the target audience, get alienated, they just bought access to the wrong beta. EFT is most definitely supposed to be unfair, but theres nothing cheap about it, as its completely intended. There are a lot of peeps who have overcame the starting difficulties and then understand how great it is to have such a steep uphill battle, they are just not the most vocal forum users.

So anyways, I wouldnt be so sure, actually Im 100% sure that you will be disappointed if you think that. Im repeating myself but anyways, BSG has stated numerous upon numerous times that the game is only gonna get more HC. We even have a BSG crew member detailing that just a little bit in this exact thread, right before your eyes. If you still live in your own fantasy about that, I dont know what to tell you. I guess I still told you everything there is to tell anyways! 

Yeah I got this one. Youve just severely misunderstood what features are derived from what genres and how they make a fusion in EFT. Theres nothing wrong with misunderstanding, I think you even pointed out that you were talking about these things as your opinions and not as sth that would actually be true. Theyre not true, like Ive explained. Man I hate this post-truth era, its taxing as heck!

Remember, that uninformed opinions are not as good as informed ones. You have the chance to be informed about this subject from now on. I can recommend watching the podcasts & Q&As, if you do that you will understand what Ive tried so hard to explain much better.

EFT is not neglecting its playerbase by any means. This is sth you still dont understand. A tutorial has been promised, but a fletched out SP is not a part of the vision and it never was, so not having it is not neglecting the playerbase. The lack of handholding mechanics is intentional, but then again there are sherpas to help, for example. If one doesnt accept help and still sucks at the game and gives up, its not neglecting a part of the playerbase. Remember, you said you dont want to change EFT, right? I think you contradict yourself a lot.

Thats the thing. Youre here to say a lot of things, many of them contradict each other and you also have stated untrue things as more than your opinions too. If you would take the time to read the forums for a couple of days, you would notice that theres no need for you to tell the struggles of newer players, its been done in a rule breaking, duplicate post making manner every single day. You are entitled for making one of these duplicate posts, without following the forum rules of searching for similar subjects before posting. You entitledly think, that your idea about BSG not listening to some part of the playerbase, your idea about SP, whether in "the core of EFT" is SP or if the future Russia 2028 title is coming, is so important that it deserves its own post. As weve had this conversation that others can then find by searching for the subject and read the facts about, it legitimizes this thread to some extent, but that doesnt change the fact that you made this post in an entitled manner.

Its not about whether BSG caters to new players or not, its about them catering to an audience that WANTS a super HC and unforgiving experience with a steep and tall learning curve. That cant coexist in their vision, with handholding mechanics and easy-modes. They are not neglecting anyone that they ever tried to cater to, we just have a lot of people come and buy the game without finding out how it is, then complaining as its not how they thought it was. Thats on these people, not BSG. Their own fault for being so ignorant and impatient.

This is a re-occurring theme as well. Newbies that cant handle it come to complain how EFT is not for them, without realizing that they had the responsibility over their money, they shouldve found out what the game is like before buying it. If they dont understand what "a hardcore and realistic online first-person action RPG/Simulator with MMO features and a story-driven walkthrough" means, they couldve found out just by googling it in like 2 mins. Thats being entitled: thinking that its BSGs fault for making something different, when it was their responsibility to find out what it is and then making the decision.

My "hostility" is due to the fact that this is not the 1st, 2nd nor 3rd time I go through these subjects. And its not even hostility. I dont hate you, but I pity you and @mgoschie a little bit, because you clearly didnt know what you spent your money on or what to expect, nor do you know what youre talking about but you still do. I dont pity you a lot, no strong feelings in this one, mostly mediocre frustration with a hint of lack of faith in people/humanity. My language is mostly that of a Finn, we speak directly and honestly, but its not my 1st or 2nd language so everything is not portrayed perfectly. 

Right, I think we've reached an understanding, lets disregard the "suggestions and opinions" I made, as clearly you're tired of talking about it over and over again, and so am I, and I understand what you're saying, let's say you have convinced me on what EFT is: people like it, it'll change for the better, and if it changes too much it defeats the purpose of EFT.

I think that's a good understanding right?

Let's revert it back to the very base of my thread, as I think this should've been the title of the thread, and the thread should've been made in a different category: "People are still waiting for R.2028, don't forget us."

I think this is an acceptable post?

I understand the title of this thread it's controversial, but I want to include "Single player" on the thread, so that for those who searched for it, there is a clear thread with that question loud and clear. I suppose that clears up and concludes our discussion? anything else you'd add?

Here's a suggestion, and it is just a suggestion: Why not tell people R.2028 is the single player of EFT, so that people know its coming? If R.2028 is often referred to as a different game entirely then people always hold the belief that whether it gets released is still up in the air. but hey, I'm not as active on these forums as you are, so maybe it has already been stated as such.

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p4nnus
18 hours ago, mgoschie said:

The issue with this statement is that you don't know what ad hominem is. It is a fallacy employed by those with weak positions to attack the person of the argument rather than the argument itself. Shall we quote?

I do know. Its an argumentation fallacy, but the problem here is, that its not the argument part in these paragraphs. So I guess youre the one who missed the true meaning then. When I said these things, I explained why they themselves have false ideas about EFT, the reason is they dont have knowledge about the nature of the game, how the dev't has progressed or what the vision and future for it will be. Then I argumented why the ideas are false, which contains the actual arguments. Describing sentence followed by argumentative sentence. 

These might be ad hominems, if the paragraph or even sentence, even the "argument" ended there. But no. These were only describing parts, before the actual arguments. So yeah, next time you want to be a fancy argument fallacy pointing genius, you might want to take context in consideration. Pathetic! :schappy:

18 hours ago, mgoschie said:

This is only two posts worth.... Shall I continue?

Please do but you need to first understand what ad hominems are. Dont continue if the next try is just as weak as this one.

19 hours ago, mgoschie said:

I am going to quote myself because you didn't read my post. The learning curve of Operation Flashpoint, and ArmA 1/2/3 is incredibly steep. The intention of Operation Flashpoint was to create a military simulator. It didn't need single player, coop, or sandbox environments. It only needed multiplayer to function, however, they implemented these game modes and environments to broaden the scope of its player base. A decision that continued through every sequel, and was improved upon 10 fold each time. The result of which has been a very large diverse player base with veterans and noobs sustaining it. Other games have been spurred off of player generated mods that were designed within its framework.

I was given access to the alpha version of Operation Flashpoint and helped put input into these changes by communicating the learning curve to Bohemia Interactive. I am very glad that I did.

I read it. And I read this as well and I dont believe you. Operation Flashpoint was always developed with a SP story in mind, since the project was called Poseidon. Source and Source2. There was even plans on having a scifi setting in the SP, which was changed to sth more realistic during the dev't. You are going to have to provide proof for what you said. What you say, you say as some complete random dude who has no legitimacy in my eyes, at least, so without sources for your claims, that would contradict what I link, youre just lying or have COMPLETELY misunderstood what your task was at the time.

What is correct, is that it was supposed to have very sandboxy and open-ended gameplay, but as that proved very hard to pull off in a manner BI wanted to pull it off, the game was made a little bit more linear with missions including more set in stone objectives etc. I dont deny, that you could have possibly given feedback on how the SP could be made so that it trained players to handle more new features as it progressed, but to say that it was supposed to be MP only in the first place, as absolute bull feces. You are going to have to provide sources for these claims, Im waiting oh so eagerly. :scwhink:

19 hours ago, mgoschie said:

This right here is enough evidence to conclude you are the one that is entitled. You must have have this, and you must have that. You must have your cheeseburger with two pickles, or else it ain't a cheeseburger. Entitlement is founded within the cementation of ideals as it is demanding changes to them. You feel as if you are entitled for Tarkov never to change to anything other than your own opinions and you believe that you speak for all other players regardless of what they are actually saying.

A single player mode is a suggestion, and it will continue to be brought up because a percentage of Tarkov players want it. The developers have stated that it is something that will not happen, but players will continue to suggest it because they simply can. Is this entitlement? No. Why? Because these players are trying to actively improve the game by starting a conversation about it, and not immediately stating it is their right to have a single player mode. We are asking for it, not demanding it. Regardless, a position of entrenchment because you believe that it is your right that Tarkov be within a singular vision is, by definition, entitlement.

Every side has bad seeds therefore those in favor of a single player mode will always have those demanding it and those in disfavor will always have those entrenched in multiplayer. What do they both have in common? Entitlement.

And you missed the point where I said and I quote: "50% is succesful, tho one can define succesful in other ways as well" and as I referred to the 70% SR, its my opinion. For me nothing less is bad, but thats just me. Im a vet and a pretty good FPS player so thats the goal I set for myself and thats what I consider succesful. An opinion, but I didnt say that everyone under that is not succesful. Quite the opposite. You lack quite much in the reading comprehension to begin with, so maybe you should figure that side out before trying to comprehend more complex things like argumentation fallacies. 

Its not a cementation of ideals, when I know that BSG wants to make a MP game without proper SP mode, when they are planning on doing a SP game later. Me explaining why they wont do it and why thats understandable, why asking for the opposite is entitled, has nothing to do with cementation of ideals, as those ideals dont include a SP mode like OP wants, in EFT, at all. Thats completely ridiculous.

Yeah, players and forum users can continue to break the rules, but that doesnt make the rule breaking any more acceptable. This is the n-th duplicate post about SP, so a rule breaking duplicate. I dont even know what youre trying to say.. that its acceptable to break the rules because the majority thinks its ok? Riiight.. thatll pan out well in the future! :scwhistle:

Being "entrenched" in the fact that EFT wont have, nor never meant to have, a proper SP but is by nature a MP game, or stating these obvious, publically available facts is not entitlement. No matter how much you try to stretch it, its just not the case. Anyone who knows what entitlement really means knows this instantaneously. 

19 hours ago, mgoschie said:

Unlike your statement, this is my last reply. Good luck!

Yeah, well, if you dont provide sources like I did, you end this conversation by leaving it a liar. Good luck, try to be more honest in the future, itll do you good in the long run! :scwhink:

 

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p4nnus
10 hours ago, jasonchan122497 said:

Right, I think we've reached an understanding, lets disregard the "suggestions and opinions" I made, as clearly you're tired of talking about it over and over again, and so am I, and I understand what you're saying, let's say you have convinced me on what EFT is: people like it, it'll change for the better, and if it changes too much it defeats the purpose of EFT.

I think that's a good understanding right?

Let's revert it back to the very base of my thread, as I think this should've been the title of the thread, and the thread should've been made in a different category: "People are still waiting for R.2028, don't forget us."

I think this is an acceptable post?

I understand the title of this thread it's controversial, but I want to include "Single player" on the thread, so that for those who searched for it, there is a clear thread with that question loud and clear. I suppose that clears up and concludes our discussion? anything else you'd add?

Here's a suggestion, and it is just a suggestion: Why not tell people R.2028 is the single player of EFT, so that people know its coming? If R.2028 is often referred to as a different game entirely then people always hold the belief that whether it gets released is still up in the air. but hey, I'm not as active on these forums as you are, so maybe it has already been stated as such.

Yeah, that would be at least more acceptable post, but as I said the amount of information in this post kinda might give it some legitimacy, even if it is rule-breaking by nature. After all, weve had several BSG crew members visit and they havent deleted, locked the post or banned you from the forums. 

Saying that Russia 2028 is the SP of EFT is absolutely misleading. Its not the SP of EFT, its a standalone game, which is not even properly announced yet. Russia 2028 is the codename, the actual game could be called sth else. So no, thats not a good idea at all. This would just confuse people who have done just as little background research as you, they would think that this mode is coming to EFT itself.

And yeah, everything about Russia 2028 is still in the air, so theres no reason to make people think otherwise. Isnt that obvious? 

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