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270 damage no kill. You need to redo how damage is dealt.


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BallzDeep69

I was killed after unloading a 10 round clip with bp  in someone and they lived and i died because i ran out of ammo fair, i needed more bullets. The thing that makes no sense is 270 was to body and 1 was to armor 5 shots hit. He lost a arm, a leg, a stomach and a thorax, and was able to shoot back. This is the main problem i have is you saying realistic game and people can not be put down in a realistic way. What man could get shot that many times and live?

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I was killed after unloading a 10 round clip with bp  in someone and they lived and i died because i ran out of ammo fair, i needed more bullets. The thing that makes no sense is 270 was to body and 1

You failed to kill someone with the end-game ammo BSG gave you for free but it is the game's fault that you are not a very skilled player? 7.62x39 BP can 2-3 tap the Thorax or 1-tap pretty much any

Stims are not the point what man after losing two limbs could return fire? Its just breaks any work of realism they have made for this game. Its like living having a blacked out head like how the [ RE

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BallzDeep69

Stims are not the point what man after losing two limbs could return fire? Its just breaks any work of realism they have made for this game. Its like living having a blacked out head like how the [ REDACTED ] 

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davidj123456
On 1/6/2021 at 1:59 AM, BallzDeep69 said:

I was killed after unloading a 10 round clip with bp  in someone and they lived and i died because i ran out of ammo fair, i needed more bullets. The thing that makes no sense is 270 was to body and 1 was to armor 5 shots hit. He lost a arm, a leg, a stomach and a thorax, and was able to shoot back. This is the main problem i have is you saying realistic game and people can not be put down in a realistic way. What man could get shot that many times and live?

You failed to kill someone with the end-game ammo BSG gave you for free but it is the game's fault that you are not a very skilled player?

7.62x39 BP can 2-3 tap the Thorax or 1-tap pretty much any helmet in the game. You had a 10-round clip...

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Saint_Ajora

I did over 900 damage (through armor) to 2 targets, both engagements lasted under 3 seconds. imma let that sink in.

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BallzDeep69
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, davidj123456 said:

You failed to kill someone with the end-game ammo BSG gave you for free but it is the game's fault that you are not a very skilled player?

7.62x39 BP can 2-3 tap the Thorax or 1-tap pretty much any helmet in the game. You had a 10-round clip...

Weird i thought 1 shot to the chest kills someone in a realistic game, even CoD hardcore mode does it better then this game. You seem to be too used to call of duty and not understand how bullets work. Also i wouldnt post your last wipe stats when your  kills are less than your raids thats just sad.

Edited by BallzDeep69
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Redangelguts
3 hours ago, BallzDeep69 said:

Weird i thought 1 shot to the chest kills someone in a realistic game, even CoD hardcore mode does it better then this game. You seem to be too used to call of duty and not understand how bullets work. Also i wouldnt post your last wipe stats when your  kills are less than your raids thats just sad.

hes one of the verified "bullets are paintballs lol" crowd, pretty sure hes just trolling

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Yeavo

Easiest way to increase realism as in get more realistic outcomes out of firefights:

Damage of all bullets should be buffed across the board. If it doesn't pen then it should still make an impact. If that makes armors less viable then just lower the trader prices of armor and flea will follow. If it doesn't then increase high tier armor spawns.

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Spectator6
5 hours ago, Yeavo said:

Easiest way to increase realism as in get more realistic outcomes out of firefights:

Damage of all bullets should be buffed across the board. If it doesn't pen then it should still make an impact. If that makes armors less viable then just lower the trader prices of armor and flea will follow. If it doesn't then increase high tier armor spawns.

Yes.

Or BSG should balance the game by the content it allows into EFT. 

If a realistic level 6 armor would be virtually impenetrable and, thus, require several "balance tweaks" to bring it in line for gameplay purposes, then IMO the level 6 armor should simply not be added in the first place. 

Same for weapon platforms and calibres. 

Rather than saying, "We MUST HAVE thermals (just to pick a random item) because they exist in real life!" IMO a more productive perspective may be to say,  "Oh... They're 'broken' due to engine limitations, etc? There's no way to properly represent the issues and nuances these items pose in real life? Well, then maybe we should just stick with what DOES translate well into a game setting and leave it at that..."

I suspect, though, that the reason these otherwise "overpowered" things keep getting added to EFT is because it needs to build-out the item/gear roster to give EFT a semblance of progress. It may be difficult to justify to the player why each of the traders have four levels of reputation if there is little new content within each "tier". 

So, for example, for the sake of discussion let's say that EFT plays immeasurably better with ONLY level 1-3 armors. Unless a lot of "random" plusses and minuses are added to each item as a means to differentiate each vest/rig, would it be possible for BSG to "drag out" a lengthy player progress arc across so few items?

And IMO, therein lies the problem. 

Real life is not beset with an artificial "progress bar". People don't run around consumed with thoughts of "leveling up" their characters in the midst of a warzone. In real life, a person may pick up a vector and say, "Ehh, okay so it's a 9mm smg. Doesn't do me much good for what I'm needing, I'll stick with my trusty 762 AK." But in a game? It's "OMG! Look what I just found! This is super rare!!1!"

(I know the analogy is breaking a bit here, but for the sake of discussion, hopefully it gets my point across)

And since the entire crux and purpose of EFT at the moment is based on progressing the character's level, IMO this introduces a clear conflict of interest. 

Because, to give another example, when I play something like STALKER, I don't really care what my character level is. All of that is pushed to the background and the need to survive, explore, etc is what is brought to the forefront to the player. 

IMO, EFT would be well served to consider that route. But it may be too late, the "level up" foundation may very well be too deeply rooted.

Edited by Spectator6
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davidj123456
11 hours ago, BallzDeep69 said:

Weird i thought 1 shot to the chest kills someone in a realistic game, even CoD hardcore mode does it better then this game. You seem to be too used to call of duty and not understand how bullets work. Also i wouldnt post your last wipe stats when your  kills are less than your raids thats just sad.

My PMC kills are less than my raids... because... questing for Kappa... my KDR is 6.7 so I kill way more than I die... lol

Also it is unrealistic to say that something like 7.62x39mm would 100% 1-tap someone to the chest in real life... it does not... there are people who have survived 27 hits of 7.62x39mm and lived...
It depends on where the bullets hit, how deep they penetrate, what vital organs they damage, and so on...

If you knew how real life worked you wouldn't have made that post...

Edited by davidj123456
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BallzDeep69
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, davidj123456 said:

My PMC kills are less than my raids... because... questing for Kappa... my KDR is 6.7 so I kill way more than I die... lol

Also it is unrealistic to say that something like 7.62x39mm would 100% 1-tap someone to the chest in real life... it does not... there are people who have survived 27 hits of mm and lived...
It depends on where the bullets hit, how deep they penetrate, what vital organs they damage, and so on...

If you knew how real life worked you wouldn't have made that post...

LOL your in a movie land not real life. 7.62x39 would shred your internal organs, shatter ribs. You need to stop watching Hollywood movies. You sound like a video game player that has not idea what actual bullets do too the human body.

Edited by BallzDeep69
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davidj123456
Redangelguts
11 hours ago, Spectator6 said:

So, for example, for the sake of discussion let's say that EFT plays immeasurably better with ONLY level 1-3 armors. Unless a lot of "random" plusses and minuses are added to each item as a means to differentiate each vest/rig, would it be possible for BSG to "drag out" a lengthy player progress arc across so few items?

I think the opposite is the way to go, we know that armor hitboxes are coming, which might actually satisfy a lot of people, but bullet damage doesn't do what it should at all.

Increases to bullet damage with super rare armor piercing rounds would add an extreme amount of tension but would leave most firefights in PvP with generally the same TTK, while increasing the availability of armor, while also keeping nice and quick firefights with the trash weak scavs which could have better and more immersive AI since your armor will generally block their shots. You'll also be able to cleanly and more subtly drop the trash scavs with silenced weapons with realistic middle mass firing without arcade headhunting and they'll not magically return fire even though their vitals were just shredded.

Imagine igolniks and 995 rounds in stacks of 5 almost as rare as a mil+ keycard? the threat of being shot by these rounds even with beefy armor would be immersive as hell, not to mention the new found viability of going with no armor at all to better outrun and outmaneuver the now more heavily armored crowd.

Adding just a smaller than normal spine vital instead of "increased damage" even from a dev perspective that 1 hits keeps realistic middle mass firing viability as opposed to this arcade headhunting meta and doesn't now cause insane amount of one hits in most PvP, since the easy to find and buy high level armor will protect your spine fully even with the new plate system, front on shots will generally be fully blocked by plates, armor durability could also be tweaked down to represent good shot grouping of even sub-par ammo which would ruin a plates viability. If you look at these videos showing the "power" of armor, it's ALWAYS shots to the plate, and it's ALWAYS a clear shot at an unbroken part of the plate, this is the reason why.

Removing the stomach hitbox and thorax hitbox in favor of a combined "chest" hitbox with something like 100 HP, and replacing that second hitbox with a spine removes all complaints of increased server load, at that point it would be about the same. Combine that with better arm pass-through for bullets and middle mass firing is about as effective as real life under the same circumstances it would be effective in real life.

Ammo types that have trouble penetrating even the soft parts of armor should be the norm and very cheap, and ammo that can pen the soft parts should be rarer and rarer and more and more expensive.

This way, it doesn't ruin the level progression style at all this way, since level progression is based on the ammo and weapons much more and armors much less.

Edited by Redangelguts
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Spectator6
Redangelguts
18 minutes ago, Spectator6 said:

In all fairness @davidj123456, is there a difference between "surviving" and bunny-hop-360-no-scoping-like-a-machine?

hes literally trolling... he knows damn well you get shot in a vital you drop 99.9% and become combat ineffective, all evidence supports this, and all those cases are extreme outliers, he knows this

look at his links even: they prove OUR point, not his

"He said he spent 10 minutes preparing for death until a medic stemmed the bleeding and stabilised him."

really combat ready there... 🤣

the only real argument I hear, are the people who think bullets should be UNREALISTIC for sake of gameplay, the ones who think this arcade damage is real are just trolls guaranteed

"Of course, the real issue is where you get shot. One bullet can kill you, but believe it or not, a body can survive a lot of bullet wounds."

another great quote from his own links which proves my point, not his, and sounds exactly like my bullet damage model: hit a vital you drop them; miss and they can possibly shoot back

Edited by Redangelguts
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BallzDeep69
mgoschie
On 1/8/2021 at 5:32 PM, Redangelguts said:

I think the opposite is the way to go, we know that armor hitboxes are coming, which might actually satisfy a lot of people, but bullet damage doesn't do what it should at all.

Increases to bullet damage with super rare armor piercing rounds would add an extreme amount of tension but would leave most firefights in PvP with generally the same TTK, while increasing the availability of armor, while also keeping nice and quick firefights with the trash weak scavs which could have better and more immersive AI since your armor will generally block their shots. You'll also be able to cleanly and more subtly drop the trash scavs with silenced weapons with realistic middle mass firing without arcade headhunting and they'll not magically return fire even though their vitals were just shredded.

Imagine igolniks and 995 rounds in stacks of 5 almost as rare as a mil+ keycard? the threat of being shot by these rounds even with beefy armor would be immersive as hell, not to mention the new found viability of going with no armor at all to better outrun and outmaneuver the now more heavily armored crowd.

Adding just a smaller than normal spine vital instead of "increased damage" even from a dev perspective that 1 hits keeps realistic middle mass firing viability as opposed to this arcade headhunting meta and doesn't now cause insane amount of one hits in most PvP, since the easy to find and buy high level armor will protect your spine fully even with the new plate system, front on shots will generally be fully blocked by plates, armor durability could also be tweaked down to represent good shot grouping of even sub-par ammo which would ruin a plates viability. If you look at these videos showing the "power" of armor, it's ALWAYS shots to the plate, and it's ALWAYS a clear shot at an unbroken part of the plate, this is the reason why.

Removing the stomach hitbox and thorax hitbox in favor of a combined "chest" hitbox with something like 100 HP, and replacing that second hitbox with a spine removes all complaints of increased server load, at that point it would be about the same. Combine that with better arm pass-through for bullets and middle mass firing is about as effective as real life under the same circumstances it would be effective in real life.

Ammo types that have trouble penetrating even the soft parts of armor should be the norm and very cheap, and ammo that can pen the soft parts should be rarer and rarer and more and more expensive.

This way, it doesn't ruin the level progression style at all this way, since level progression is based on the ammo and weapons much more and armors much less.

This hitbox model follows many hunting games. The most recently known for it is theHunter Call of the Wild. I agree this hitbox is effective both in gameplay and server load. The headhunting meta is extremely strong because of the design of helmets, commonality of armor penetrating ammo, and ricochet potentials. Honestly, I win fights mainly because I allow my weapon to climb in full auto to their head knowing that it'll put them down much faster than spraying the chest.

7.62 x 39 is intended to bounce and destroy organs. It is incredibly hard to simulate that when the stomach, and thorax are two different hitboxes. A single shot to the brain, spine neck, or heart is enough to put them down without return fire. Any other organ you must expect them to fire back. Armor penetrating ammo is far too common in EFT, and the larger caliber weapons suffer for it unless there is a scope and range as your weapon has more recoil than others with the same penetration. The benefit is damage, but again with two separate hitboxes that have large health pools, you'd rather be more accurate by having less recoil to hit the head.

A modified thorax hitbox with a spine hitbox for accurate and precise chest shots only remedies the speed at which the target will drop in the center. Blacked, and fractured limbs are barely a nuisance therefore I suggest the following changes. The bleeding of legs should be increased, and the damage dealt to the black leg should reduce the health pool of the thorax by two fold of the current value. A blacked, or fracture leg should render you into a prone state until the fracture is dealt with, or the leg is repaired. A blacked, or fractured arm should force rifles into the hip, so you cannot ADS. You can still ADS with a pistol which may make them viable to carry in EFT as a side arm instead of a primary.

In addition to these changes, I'd like to see a medic style mechanic to the game. Players can heal other players in both bleeding, health, pain, and fractures. You can also drag a player for 1/2 walk speed, or pick them up taking a few seconds to lift then move at normal.

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davidj123456
On 1/9/2021 at 2:00 AM, BallzDeep69 said:

Weird none of these state they returned fire and ran 10 miles to safety very odd. Almost like someone carrying them to the ER while they layed there is the only reason they lived with the help of a team of surgeons. Think before you speak.

But they survived... which means I am right... and you are wrong...

Think before you speak...

On 1/8/2021 at 8:28 PM, Spectator6 said:

In all fairness @davidj123456, is there a difference between "surviving" and bunny-hop-360-no-scoping-like-a-machine?

The argument was whether or not they survive... which they did... I did not say that it is realistic for them to be doing the 2nd thing...
I was right... you were wrong... so pls do not put words into my mouth...

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Spectator6
27 minutes ago, davidj123456 said:

The argument was whether or not they survive... which they did... I did not say that it is realistic for them to be doing the 2nd thing...
I was right... you were wrong... so pls do not put words into my mouth...

Woa now, there's no need to be rude here, @davidj123456 My apologies if the tone of my comment came across the wrong way.

I never said you were wrong. Those people did survive.

It seems to me that, within the context of EFT, the issue at hand is not simply whether a player survives, but what the injured player is able to do while in his wounded state as well as the ease with which the player is subsequently able to heal otherwise terminal wounds.

I could be wrong, but IMO, those are the two primary drivers that lead many to take issue with EFT's current health system.

Edited by Spectator6
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davidj123456
4 minutes ago, Spectator6 said:

Woa now, there's no need to be rude here, @davidj123456 My apologies if the tone of my comment came across the wrong way.

I never said you were wrong. Those people did survive.

It seems to me that, within the context of EFT, the issue at hand is not simply whether a player survives, but what the injured player is able to do while in his wounded state as well as the ease with which the player is subsequently able to heal otherwise terminal wounds.

I could be wrong, but IMO, those are the two primary drivers that lead many to take issue with EFT's current health system.

My apologies for being rude as well. If you read other comments there was one individual who was very rude to me and told me to "think before you speak". I thought you were with him. I am very sorry about my abrupt and inappropriate reaction. 

My main point is that one 7.62x39mm bullet to the thorax won't necessarily kill you as it very much depends on where the bullet lands and what it damages. More importantly, in a combat situation, and more commonly with smaller munitions, there are cases of people not even noticing being shot because of adrenaline. In my very small exposure to military training (I am not a soldier and I am not qualified), we were taught to actually pat each other down after a firefight because an individual may not even notice being shot due to adrenaline (again depending on what they were shot by and where).

I think it is incorrect to say that getting hit by 1-3 7.62x39mm bullets should automatically kill you in this game, but I completely agree that the way the game currently stands is wrong too. If you pummel someone's arms and legs and stomach and blunt damage their thorax through their armor... if they consume painkillers they will be able to function almost as well as they could before... which is not the way it should be either in my opinion...

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Cayman-Cider
On 1/12/2021 at 10:48 AM, davidj123456 said:

But they survived... which means I am right... and you are wrong...

Think before you speak...

The argument was whether or not they survive... which they did... I did not say that it is realistic for them to be doing the 2nd thing...
I was right... you were wrong... so pls do not put words into my mouth...

Stupid troll is stupid trolling. 1 Quick look at this guys post history is eye opening. 1400 Posts of trolling and trying to spread his E-penis. Dude must be bored as a mafk for years. Get help dave.

Edited by Cayman-Cider
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Redangelguts
7 hours ago, Cayman-Cider said:

Stupid troll is stupid trolling. 1 Quick look at this guys post history is eye opening. 1400 Posts of trolling and trying to spread his E-penis. Dude must be bored as a mafk for years. Get help dave.

he never argues the point, ever...

..the point is when you drop in a video game, we call it a "kill"... that is combat ineffective... literally the POINT of playing a video game is to simulate combat more, so when you are combat ineffective it lets you queue up for a game quicker to simulate more combat...

He knows this... we ALL know this... we ALL know the argument is about how fast someone is combat ineffective, and we ALL know this game is nowhere near the realism it advertised (the only real argument for arcade style is "balance", which is also fallible as well, since ammo/armor rarity can allow full realism, but he never even argues THAT)... lord knows how he isn't banned TBH... how much time has been wasted replying to him...

...honestly I have him ignored and I finally feel the need to respond since everyone is getting baited and I can still see him being quoted... 🤣

Edited by Redangelguts
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GeneralBrus
On 1/7/2021 at 7:49 PM, davidj123456 said:

You failed to kill someone with the end-game ammo BSG gave you for free but it is the game's fault that you are not a very skilled player?

7.62x39 BP can 2-3 tap the Thorax or 1-tap pretty much any helmet in the game. You had a 10-round clip...

He failed because he assumed that hitting someone with this round would kill him.

How stupid can he be right? Pff next time bring a 100 rounder, that should be enough to drop someone, probably at least, cant say for sure, im no doctor.

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GeneralBrus
On 1/8/2021 at 5:27 PM, davidj123456 said:

there are people who have survived 27 hits of 7.62x39mm and lived...

You never stop surprising me with your nonsense, call of duty warzone has definitely a realistic dmg model by your logic than.

You know back when world war 2 started, nazi soldiers would go "clean" buildings just with boltactions because smgs only started to be more available to infantry. By your logic a sword would have been a more effective weapon to do cqc back in those days cuz... yeah obviously 1 shot means nothing in a real fight.

I bet last time you hit your pinky toe against the wall you coudnt walk for half an hour. Now imagine a bullet passing through your chest... 

 

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