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Peekers advantage / desync in EFT is unacceptable


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Knix1808

Not gonna lie im kinda sick of it, don't get me wrong i had my fair share of running arround sprinting at people killing in my time but when do you guys finally address / fix the desync and the peekers advantage in your game? Noone should care about you adding new stuff to the game if the core of the game doesn't work properly.

Big Streamers / Names in EFT have spoken up about this recently ( Summit / Klean / Landmark / Willerz / Markstrom ) 

Most of the time people thing they've been killed by a cheater its just the massive desync in the game. People believe Audio isn't working however that's once again desync not picking up the audio quickly enough. For how tactical and slow this game is intended to be it's a joke how you can use Desync as an advantage and get kills on people that didn't see you in the first place or couldn't hear you.

 

This in my opinion isn't acceptable and should be adressed by way more people

In case you guys don't know what desync in combination with peekers advantage means heres a very short clip of me not even able to see the guy whos shooting me looks like. In any other FPS game with solid servers and high tickrate holding angles is always superior to peeking.

https://streamable.com/5apj16

 

Edited by Knix1808
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mgoschie

It is very unacceptable in today's beautiful age of modern online gaming.

The servers are overloaded which might explain the lack of SCAVS recently. A change that only hinders players as we rely on them for tasks, gear, and tells. Quite frankly, I'd like to see a lower limit of PMCs across all maps and more SCAVs. Perhaps this will be a better solution in the long term?

Over the past 10 raids, I have had four SCAVs stuck in running animations and one SCAV jesus spawned. Luckily, his shots didn't hit while he was floating above me. These issues provide evidence of an overloaded server.

Lets get some good old fashioned QoL changes!

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Kilhoffa

They should make it where if you peak the weapon shifts around for a moment after peaking, so you can't peak and laser beam real fast.

This way, you can still look but not peek and kill.

Edited by Kilhoffa
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Knix1808
vor 5 Stunden schrieb gNecrOz:

you should have linked Markstrom's video about it as well.

 

heres the video in case anybody wants to sit through it and get to understand what its all about

Edited by Knix1808
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Spectator6

Don't worry, they're evidently saving the "good" servers for Arena mode, but thanks for buying Escape from Tarkov in the meantime!

/somewhat joking

I agree with you @Knix1808, hopefully they can get this sorted out! Believe it or not, the netcode has seen dramatic improvements over the years. Let's keep pushing for it to move in that same direction!

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untagatnu

nothing you can do about peakers advantage. Even with tight ping / RTT there will always be some peakers advantage. Literally unavoidable. The minimum it can go is on a LAN party with every system being exactly the same... You know... competitive tournaments. That's the lowest it will go. Even then the silicone lottery it's bound to give an advantage, albeit small, to some players. 

On desync... sure BSG go fix it.

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gNecrOz
11 hours ago, untagatnu said:

nothing you can do about peakers advantage. Even with tight ping / RTT there will always be some peakers advantage. Literally unavoidable. The minimum it can go is on a LAN party with every system being exactly the same... You know... competitive tournaments. That's the lowest it will go. Even then the silicone lottery it's bound to give an advantage, albeit small, to some players. 

On desync... sure BSG go fix it.

I agree with you to a small extent, however in the current state, peekers advantage is much much worse then just about any other game of the shooter nature. another example I found that showcases just how bad it can be and why people keep screaming hackers when they die to a pretty BS situation. The reason it needs talked about is because as they add more things, as Mark says, and they increase the load on these servers. If the Net code does not improve and the server qualities do not improve, things will just get worse. 

I am a staunch supporter of, this is Nakita's game and his vision, and we are just here to play what he has come up with. I also believe in transparency and quality of a product and development. I do not like phantom changes to in game loot and spawns without updated information. I also like seeing money go into the quality improvement of a product I support, thus trying to fix these to more standard levels with other games is something that I support happening.

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untagatnu
4 hours ago, gNecrOz said:

I agree with you to a small extent,

There is nothing to agree or disagree. It's physics. It's math. Literally universal truths. You can't completely eliminate peakers advantage + someone will always have peakers advantage. Too many factors involved. Hardware. Silicone Lottery. Player reaction time. Latency. ISP. You name it... it all goes there.

Again... if we are talking about netcode / desync... then sure... BSG go fix it.

Here is more information on the issue of netcode / desync / improving them / Nikkita's reponse... etcetera. 

 

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gNecrOz
2 minutes ago, untagatnu said:

You can't completely eliminate peakers advantage + someone will always have peakers advantage.

Clearly you misunderstand what I am saying. I never said it can be eliminated. It can however be mitigated to acceptable standards that other games with online content have.

 

16 minutes ago, gNecrOz said:

quality improvement of a product I support, thus trying to fix these to more standard levels with other games is something that I support happening.

As I clearly state here, fix them to a more standard level with other games. Unless in the next day we upgrade to quantum computing and we can quantum teleport the information, then there will always be travel times, ping, and tick rates in game. The problem BSG has currently, I would assume, is hardware combined with Netcode. 

As for the video you shared, I will watch it once I send this, because you seem to misunderstand what I am stating when I say, "Fix This", which is not to say they can eliminate it. It is saying they need to bring to a level of acceptance that we have across most all multiplayer games and more closely competitive shooters and MOBAs. If we constantly make excuses when other games like CS:GO, SCUM, Deadside, DOTA2, COD, Valorant, etc can have acceptable levels of the "Peekers Advantage", Valorant boasts on average 40-70ms. CS:GO from on-winning.com has a video simulating 150 ping giving about 80ms of peekers advantage. These are acceptable numbers, and they are not really able to be reduced without having a large jump in internet and computing power. EFT having averages of 400ms should not be something we sit here and go, "Well that just how it is, there are so many things that could make it that bad." When other titles do not boast nearly as staggering times.

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untagatnu

Sure, whatever. Tone it down. Transmute it. Turn it into a pony. I don't care. There is nothing to agree or disagree. It's just math. Peakers advantage will always be there for the reasons I have highlighted and many, many, MANY more.

Again... what you really want to be talking about is netcode / desync and Nikkita already responded on that video you said you saw... so there is literally nothing else to talk about. This post should be closed. Nikkita has already addressed this. 

Edited by untagatnu
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gNecrOz
12 minutes ago, untagatnu said:

Sure, whatever. Tone it down. Transmute it. Turn it into a pony. I don't care. There is nothing to agree or disagree. It's just math. Peakers advantage will always be there for the reasons I have highlighted and many, many, MANY more.

If you truly do not care 🤔 then why did you even comment?

Yes Nakita did reply, and explained that the netcode is the best it ever has been. I can attest to that as well, I have been playing this game and supporting this developer and Nakita since 2017. I can agree with what Onepeg said, and what Nakita had said, this games online coding is in the best state it has been in. 

However, in contrast, for it to remain as competitive as it is in the sense of combat mechanics and gun fights, we still have a ways to go to improve and reduce the Peekers Advantage (Peek is spelled with two "e" we are not talking about a mountain peak here we are talking about looking.) I am also not here to bash Nakita or the Developers or anyone in the BSG Crew and I will never do that. We are all human, just like them and words hurt, threats hurt, and anger is usually reciprocated with anger and alienation.

You can try and throw around all you want about the math, but if you cannot take the time to explain it like Vertias or even more so like Battle(None)sense then your argument there is invalidated in this sense because I know I cannot explain it. I am not trained nor am I educated to the point that I can develop netcode like my friends who work in game development and medical networking infrastructure. I can say that I have probably one of the beefiest gaming rigs, just need to replace the 2080 with the 3090, and I have a direct line fiber optic ISP with up and down speeds of 500 up and down (Working from home with 4 other people really brought out the need to upgrade out package) I also know the lines we have are all new, and this pc is just under 6 months old now. I still have issues from time to time with everything from D-sync and Peekers Advantage and Minor stutters. These things are no where near as bad when I was playing 4 years ago, this is true. However, the fact that I can boot up any other shoot I have on PC have little to no issues proves that it is still a prevalent thing. 

I also agree again with Onepeg, it will continue to improve, I know it and everyone else knows it. It will take time, and I am sure the Unity Engine does not help with the online coding aspect. I like the idea of Onepeg saying that people should try to add something constructive as well, to that I can suggest looking into RIOT games ventures into the "Elimination" of peekers advantge (laughable but that is the article title) and to try and disect the netcode for CS:GO possibly. I am not saying to copy someone else's homework and call it your own by any means, but looking into reference materials to trying to construct your own paper never hurts and usually helps. Granted this has already been done most likely. However it is a place to start the suggestions rolling.

 

I will agree with you one solid point, this post does need locked because it will turn into a flame fest from other people that cannot control their anger and emotions and trolls will show up to try and add fuel to that fire.

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.ff7eb1268cabb4eebadc5f9c0892a7c0.png

For those interested I have inserted Nakita's response to the Summit and Mark hot-take.

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mgoschie
5 hours ago, untagatnu said:

It's just math.

Bro, you need to brush up on your statistics. There are acceptable ranges of error in all mathematical concepts, and constructs. The issue that is being discussed goes beyond that error which is why it is an issue.

The response is great, but this should be a top priority with a clear roadmap of patches to fix it.

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ACuddlyBadger
6 hours ago, untagatnu said:

Sure, whatever. Tone it down. Transmute it. Turn it into a pony. I don't care. There is nothing to agree or disagree. It's just math. Peakers advantage will always be there for the reasons I have highlighted and many, many, MANY more.

Again... what you really want to be talking about is netcode / desync and Nikkita already responded on that video you said you saw... so there is literally nothing else to talk about. This post should be closed. Nikkita has already addressed this. 

You come across as the most egoically bloated user on these forums rn man. The community complaining about legitimate issues that BSG already knows about keeps their feet to the fire. If the community is complacent and lousy, there isn't anything BSG needs to stay on top of. 

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NerdCoreTV

i dont think, this game is unplayable at all, but yeah there are some issues that should be solved. i had the luxury to play on the testserver and i can assure you, this game can run so so so smooth, it was a pain to play on live servers again.

Edited by NerdCoreTV
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gNecrOz
Spoiler

image.thumb.png.bbadbba72941d700aef3e024849ea3a5.png

Yeah, you can really see him in that door way...

 

As I said in the previous post, this has been covered by Nakita people have said their peace about it and it is stating to just descend into name calling and troll accounts it would seem. I think it should be locked and we should just move on at this point. It is no longer a "Suggestion Thread".

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EDBerG316

"Peekers advantage / desync in EFT is unacceptable"

Yeah, then stop playing online multiplayer shooters. Peeker's Advantage is a necessity when you play over the internet.

Am 20.1.2021 um 15:46 schrieb Knix1808:

In any other FPS game with solid servers and high tickrate holding angles is always superior to peeking.

This is 100% WRONG! Peeking is superior to holding, not the other way around!

If you want to actually understand how Peeker's Advantage works, watch this video by WackyJacky101 and don't listen to this nonsense of Mark who says holding the angle is a good thing, it totally is not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA_ZC5cPe1I

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gNecrOz
3 hours ago, EDBerG316 said:

Peeker's Advantage is a necessity when you play over the internet.

It is inevitable, not a necessity. There is a difference between it "Needing to be there" and "It will always be there in some degree"

3 hours ago, EDBerG316 said:

This is 100% WRONG! Peeking is superior to holding, not the other way around!

As Henrik said, this is not always the case. In games like PUBG or Valorant or APEX. Everyone should be peeking, because the game server has to calculate all 100 players, plus loot, plus vehicles, and all of the data transfer. In games like CS:GO the hold is the superior because of the difference in Tick-Rates and the astronomically low latency the servers there have. He also says that they have less on those servers they need to worry about having only 10 players per game, and that is also true.

3 hours ago, EDBerG316 said:

this nonsense of Mark who says holding the angle is a good thing, it totally is not.

Correct it is not always a good thing, but in a game that is supposed to be a high realism tactical shooter. Holding the Angle "Should" always be superior. You are not, in a real life tactical scenario, charge your way through a door way when you know or suspect someone is there already holding a ready for you to do so. That push will always fail. That is why there is such a push to attempt to continue to lower the latency and the desync between clients and servers. The issue with this though, is EFT has a lot it needs to calculate... and I mean a lot. The servers loot, your loot and gear, the scavs loot and gear, other PMCs loot and gear, all the skill sand stats of each PMC, when gear changes hands, and this list goes on. 

At this point we are all beating a dead horse however, Nakita has said his peace, we have said our peace, everyone just needs to move on and let the developers work their way through it and improve it over time as they have shown and will continue to show that they can do.

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EDBerG316
Zitat

In games like CS:GO the hold is the superior

No!

Zitat

The issue with this though, is EFT has a lot it needs to calculate... and I mean a lot. The servers loot, your loot and gear, the scavs loot and gear, other PMCs loot and gear, all the skill sand stats of each PMC, when gear changes hands, and this list goes on. 

Pure speculation.

 

And don't start correcting peoples grammar/vocabulary if yours isn't perfect either.

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gNecrOz
7 hours ago, Xarc said:

Maybe they could borrow from the inertia for movement and apply to the peak problem.

Ironically, that is something Onepeg just covered today in response to Nakita's update post to reddit, EST servers will see the inertia first it seems ^_^ I think the inertia will help improve the Hold vs Peek disproportion that Desync, Peekers Advantage, Netcode, etc. Untill we can see what the inertia will actually change though, it is all theoretical at this point. Time will tell and hopefully it is for the better. 👍

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  • 2 weeks later...
Rimeice

I often play the game after 2 or 3 months after any wipe, so I blamed every dead to my low gear against enemies with end-game ammo and armor, so I decided to be on time the last wipe to get a "more fair" game... but I ended up having a worse experience, of course this was because most players were doing their quest, so there was a higher player activity almost 24/7... 

This exponentially increases the desync problem... because I wont be able to avoid fights and get away with it... in other words, I ended up killed more often by people with better ping. Even taking an aggressive approach picking corners, didn't mean that the server allowed me to shot first or even shot at all... that is exploited by "experienced" players, turning this game in a COD game instead of a slow hardcore game, all because they know they would win more often, and if they lose, they still have 5 more hours or more to recover from the lost. So it's a high risk high reward for them... but for me and many, it becomes a situation of high risk high lose or low risk and still high possible lose.

This leaves me in a situation where I can not enjoy the game anymore, cuz 1: I am too late, so I cant even get to the end game before a wipe and also gonna get kill by 1 tap at any part of my body no matter the helm nor armor, or 2: I am too soon so I will die because too many desync fights when I am the one with bad luck, leaving unable to progress at all if I only can play 1 or 2 hours a day... 

free SCAV runs doesn't matter, if I still have to face the same desync problem every corner... 

Despite the game still being in a "beta" state,  it cannot be taken as "unreleased" anymore... the game is been played by its core market since long ago, so any possible profit increase after the "release" won't be that huge if people don't spread the word... SO, in my opinion, if they don't fix this soon, they might loose not only old players, but any potential new players... they should not continue delaying a real fix to this problem if they really want to get anywhere...

I will come back to play by the time this problems gets fixed… I love this game, and I want it to be successful... but it is punishing by the wrong reasons, not because its hardcore nature... 

 

Edited by Rimeice
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Semipro_ttv

Inertia would fix peeker advantage slow moving side ways to peek doors, running full speed takes time to stop so can’t stop on a dime. 

Edited by Semipro_ttv
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Rimeice
1 hour ago, Semipro_ttv said:

Inertia would fix peeker advantage slow moving side ways to peek doors, running full speed takes time to stop so can’t stop on a dime. 

that would definitely help add to the fix, while adding more realism

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