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Halve the number of PMCs on every map to instantly make the game 2x as good


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Peterhobo1

All there is to it really. There's simply too many PMCs. The game is basically just a deathmatch for the first 5 minutes and it's a pretty poo meta. Right now PMC runs revolve entirely around vets who know the spawns and just immediately hunt you down because they know someone spawned there and they want free kills. This needs a remedy, and the only solution is to make players sparse enough that you can't just rush a spawn on ducking woods and get a guaranteed kill.

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p4nnus
On 1/21/2021 at 11:52 PM, Peterhobo1 said:

All there is to it really. There's simply too many PMCs. The game is basically just a deathmatch for the first 5 minutes and it's a pretty poo meta. Right now PMC runs revolve entirely around vets who know the spawns and just immediately hunt you down because they know someone spawned there and they want free kills. This needs a remedy, and the only solution is to make players sparse enough that you can't just rush a spawn on ducking woods and get a guaranteed kill.

Just like with your scav timer suggestion, I dont think you really have the perspective about the long term effects of this kind of change. Not saying it in any discriminatory way, but just so you understand the critique.

The game is a DM in the beginning of a raid for those who

a) want it to be one at the beginning aka those who seek for immediate PVP (note that once you kill the closest spawns, its more safe for you in a way, so theres that) 

b) dont know how to avoid this PVP and waltz in the sights of more experienced players.

The maps might be further expanded, so that this kind of thing is easier to avoid. That said, your suggestion is bad for a very simple reason: if there would be 50% of the PMCs we have now, EFT would be way too easy. People could just run through the map without having anything to worry about. Doing quests and killing scavs for loot would be a walk in the park. It would also be that much easier for very skilled players to be able to kill all the other PMCs in a raid, giving them almost riskless access to most of the loot in the map afterwards. There wouldnt be the risk of "there always being one more PMC". The urgency and dangerousness of PVP would be lesser.

So no, its not gonna happen.

On the bright side: its very easy to counter or just avoid this early PVP. With a little experience, probably in like 20 raids per map, you will learn where to go from which spawn, while acknowledging which are the closest spawns that can see you and how quickly. 

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GeneralBrus
52 minutes ago, p4nnus said:

That said, your suggestion is bad for a very simple reason: if there would be 50% of the PMCs we have now, EFT would be way too easy.

This has nothing to do with difficulty.

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Sargash

Majority of my runs I have problems finding PMCs, unless I want shoreline resort or customs dorms, or sniping on woods.

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ZabuzaLT
2 hours ago, p4nnus said:

Just like with your scav timer suggestion, I dont think you really have the perspective about the long term effects of this kind of change. Not saying it in any discriminatory way, but just so you understand the critique.

The game is a DM in the beginning of a raid for those who

a) want it to be one at the beginning aka those who seek for immediate PVP (note that once you kill the closest spawns, its more safe for you in a way, so theres that) 

b) dont know how to avoid this PVP and waltz in the sights of more experienced players.

The maps might be further expanded, so that this kind of thing is easier to avoid. That said, your suggestion is bad for a very simple reason: if there would be 50% of the PMCs we have now, EFT would be way too easy. People could just run through the map without having anything to worry about. Doing quests and killing scavs for loot would be a walk in the park. It would also be that much easier for very skilled players to be able to kill all the other PMCs in a raid, giving them almost riskless access to most of the loot in the map afterwards. There wouldnt be the risk of "there always being one more PMC". The urgency and dangerousness of PVP would be lesser.

So no, its not gonna happen.

On the bright side: its very easy to counter or just avoid this early PVP. With a little experience, probably in like 20 raids per map, you will learn where to go from which spawn, while acknowledging which are the closest spawns that can see you and how quickly. 

I disagree in part , PMC spawn fighting is not fun at all. 

Customs is a death match no matter what , if you spawn around big red theres 9 PMC spawns , if you spawn in woods 4, 8 spawns inside the factory zone , No matter where you spawn there is 2-3 guys close to you, just after spawning you have 3 options

1. Stay put and hide (expierienced/geared up players will rush you and your dead because they know where you spawned plus their ready for the fight(hunter) and your trying to avoid(prey) it )
2. Run for it (probably gonna make a lot of noise most likely be shot on the run or someone will hear you and chase you)
3.Go PVP and rush the guy first (pray that other players in the area dont come to pvp both of you or the victor)

Now even if you do run for it or hide and make it far away so your more or less away from the action , Player scavs spawning in around the map with mosins and other veps gonna engage you either way plus now you there is 50% chance that there is a dude coming behind you either the one you tried to run from or some other guy from that vicinity

Usualy I have 3 big fights , as soon as I spawn from pmc rushing me, then half way either a scav or a quick PMC from opposite spawns, and next to exfill when the player scavs spawns in and the exfil campers or if i was quick then slow PMC players starting to move away from theyr starting possitions.

 

That initial spawn fights is pretty much forced to you because its less risky as trying to get away from it or wait it out when your possition is more or less common knowledge

 

Now PMC players dont need to be reduced but i think spawns need to bay wayyyy more spread out or at least more spawn points added at diffrent locations that way you still might have the initial fight everyonce once in a while but with more spawns or spread out spawns there is a bigger chance there wont be a player next to you at the start or he will be too far away to rush you. plus if the spawnes are spread out, you will probably meet PMC along the way to exfil because other PMC wasnt rushed by other PMC at the start so more people alive , more people moving from one direction exfils to the other side exfils

 

 

 

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p4nnus
2 minutes ago, GeneralBrus said:

This has nothing to do with difficulty.

OFC it has. If you can, willingly, run through the map without even looking, without a weapon, to loot spots, because you know you have room to do it, its easier than what we have now. If theres less PMCs theres less to worry about. 

Its obvious. Please provide something to back up the argument against it if you can.

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ZabuzaLT
28 minutes ago, Sargash said:

Majority of my runs I have problems finding PMCs, unless I want shoreline resort or customs dorms, or sniping on woods.

Thats because most people are either dead by the first 120 secs of the match start or is hiding in a basement in the bathroom under the sink in the cubbord with ak pointed at the door and heavy breathing from all the sprinting they just done hoping that the bad guys went to seal clubb other people and didint notice his unarmored cheeks slapping in the wind while he was running

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p4nnus
5 minutes ago, ZabuzaLT said:

I disagree in part , PMC spawn fighting is not fun at all. 

EFT is not meant to be for everyone. If you dont enjoy it, its not the games fault. As I said, there might be tweaks about this but theres nothing to indicate that players would start spawning in the middle of the map next to the loot spots, or that the amount of PMCs would be made smaller. Its been made higher in the maps that have been changed in that regard.

6 minutes ago, ZabuzaLT said:

Customs is a death match no matter what , if you spawn around big red theres 9 PMC spawns , if you spawn in woods 4, 8 spawns inside the factory zone , No matter where you spawn there is 2-3 guys close to you, just after spawning you have 3 options

Why is it then, that I can get away from my spawn without a fight if I want to, at least most of the time? How can I do that but you cant? 

50 minutes ago, ZabuzaLT said:

1. Stay put and hide (expierienced/geared up players will rush you and your dead because they know where you spawned plus their ready for the fight(hunter) and your trying to avoid(prey) it )
2. Run for it (probably gonna make a lot of noise most likely be shot on the run or someone will hear you and chase you)
3.Go PVP and rush the guy first (pray that other players in the area dont come to pvp both of you or the victor)

1. You can definitely do this, but no, you shouldnt be consistently dead or then you are using very obvious spots, or you are a very bad shot. Experience will make you better in both of these (hiding & shooting) and thats exactly how its supposed to be.

2. Yes, you can run for it and I do this all the time if I have quests with scav kills, for instance. While you run, you check towards the most common spots people might be holding and move through cover and concealment in a way that if you get lit up, you can get to cover quickly.  A good player always has a back up plan in mind: where to go if theres an enemy at location x, y and z, what to do if teammate goes down etc. Again, when you get more experienced, you will know what routes to use and how long there can be players and where. You can even watch guides from YT if you are not patient enough to learn by raiding.

3. A valid tactic, but as you said, there are risks involved if you are the first to engage. It always makes noise and others can come 3rd party you. I recommend lurking and being the 3rd party with your squad, if you are not efficient in battle yet.

55 minutes ago, ZabuzaLT said:

Now even if you do run for it or hide and make it far away so your more or less away from the action , Player scavs spawning in around the map with mosins and other veps gonna engage you either way plus now you there is 50% chance that there is a dude coming behind you either the one you tried to run from or some other guy from that vicinity

Usualy I have 3 big fights , as soon as I spawn from pmc rushing me, then half way either a scav or a quick PMC from opposite spawns, and next to exfill when the player scavs spawns in and the exfil campers or if i was quick then slow PMC players starting to move away from theyr starting possitions.

Yep, so you are describing what EFT is supposed to be. Its supposed to be tough, harsh and tense. You can never be safe when you raid, but you can do things that add to your probabilities of surviving. As said, theres several guides out there to help you. My biggest advice is that you should raid with a friend or two. This will increase the odds of survival as you can do flanks etc and your friends can trade kill you if you die & hide your stuff.

Again, experience will help. Its supposed to be hard and its supposed to be very hard when you are a noob. Nothing about that will change, even if the spawns and extracts, loot locations etc will be tweaked.

57 minutes ago, ZabuzaLT said:

Now PMC players dont need to be reduced but i think spawns need to bay wayyyy more spread out or at least more spawn points added at diffrent locations that way you still might have the initial fight everyonce once in a while but with more spawns or spread out spawns there is a bigger chance there wont be a player next to you at the start or he will be too far away to rush you. plus if the spawnes are spread out, you will probably meet PMC along the way to exfil because other PMC wasnt rushed by other PMC at the start so more people alive , more people moving from one direction exfils to the other side exfils

The problem with this is, that then the ones closer to the middle of the map would have such a big advantage over people, who spawn to the ends of the map. They can get early loot, early scav kills and even afterwards set up ambush for the coming players. When the spawns are somewhat close to each other, theres always a risk that someone will come 3rd party you, even if you have the middle-most spawn and set up ambush. This is as intended, tho the maps might be widened which will make it easier to have spawns a little bit more spread out. What Im saying is that you shouldnt expect the spawns to be distributed evenly across the maps, as the maps are asymmetric and it would make the RNG spawn system even more in favor of those who get lucky.

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GeneralBrus
1 hour ago, p4nnus said:

OFC it has. If you can, willingly, run through the map without even looking, without a weapon, to loot spots, because you know you have room to do it, its easier than what we have now. If theres less PMCs theres less to worry about. 

Its obvious. Please provide something to back up the argument against it if you can.

Sry in advance, this is gonna be a long text, but hey you asked for it.

What is the goal of the game? To get to the extract? well then sure, having 1000 players on each map makes it harder.

This is not at all the goal of the game tho, it might be in the future, but not at the moment, is it completing quests? well every quest unlocks you stuff for PvP and lots of streamers stop playing the game as soon as they unlocked kappa, so i guess in the end PvP is the goal of the game, at least atm, and having 1000 players on a free for all map isn't making PvP harder, because staying alive is NOT the goal of pvp games, instead it is being better than your enemies, and if you manage to kill 2 ppl before dying, then you have already proven to be better than most other players.

Now am I saying PvP should be the goal of the game? No.

Do I play survival shooters for the PvP? Yes, I do.

Should this game instead focus on surviving raids? I hope it would, even tho that is not what got me interested in this game from the start.

The game doesn't challenge us to survive, you spawn and go to the exit- done, yes that is true. So I can actually understand you, when you say lowering the playercount would make "surviving" easier...

But even then I personally think that this logic is still bad gameplay. Because the gameplay behind a "free for all" mode where everyone just has to go somewhere without dying, while there are players everywhere and you making it out mostly depends on you being lucky with your spawns and your enemies spawns, - this very gameplay reminds me of one of these super stupid battle royal games, and I really hope Tarkov doesnt turn into pubg with weapon modding.

IF Tarkov really wants to make the game about surviving the raids and less about PvP, then you need lots of difficult to beat AI scavs or other challenges, because if the challenge of the game is to kill players, then the goal of the game WILL be PvP, which WILL contradict the goal of survival.

BSG needs to decide what the GOAL of the game is, right now BSG is trying to be:

-A realistic hardcore shooter.

-A ESL competitive twitch shooter

-A Survival shooter

-A RPG

-A story driven PvE game

-A multiplayer PvP game

And all of these combined are creating a big identity mess, because many of these concepts have gameplay mechanics that contradict each other, or at least make it extremely difficult/maybe even impossible to find the sweet spot we are all hoping for.

IF Tarkov wants to focus on PvP, then a lower playercount would create a better "hardcore shooter" experience.

IF Tarkov wants to focus on PvP, then a larger playercount would create a better " twitch shooter" experience.

IF Tarkov wants to focus on Survival and the raid system, then a lower playercount but more scavs that are guarding extracts with bosses that we need to fight would create a better "hardcore survival" experience. -What makes Darksouls so popular is how difficult and yet satisfying it is, so the game itself is the challenge, not other players.

In theory Tarkov could have multiple possible goals, but there is a lack of "promotion", in fact right now nothing in the game gives you anything, there is no promotion what so ever.

Because if you use top gear, 1 magdump will cost you more money, than you can possibly gain from looting your target. So PvP is actually punishing you.

If you go straight for the extract, you'll get a "run through" so the game is punishing you for "surviving" as well.

Maybe if we add 3 new AI traders which can only be unlocked by having certain positive stats, we could give the players the promotion and rewards they need to feel like, what they are doing "matters".

 

1. trader "the survival guy":

He can only be unlocked and raised in reputation if we have a good survival rating. That way hatchling runs would be a thing of the past, because we all would want to have this one cool trader. - reward the players for achieving something, instead of punishing them for not playing the game as "intended".

2. trader "the manhunter"

He can only be unlocked and raised for having a positive pvp KDR. That way ppl would still be happy for wasting lots of rubles on expensive ammo, because they could use this "one cool unique" gun that only top players could have access to. -again reward the player for achieving something, instead of punishing them for not playing the game as "intended".

3. trader "the sheriff"

He can only be unlocked and raised by having "good Karma". Never shoot first, but when you're shot, go kill that evil bandit, your doing the ppl of Tarkov a favor. That way ppl that just want to bring justice back to tarkov by killing Scavs, shoot on sight idiots and "manhunters" will get promoted with cheap lvl 6 bodyarmor and other cool unique items. -Yet again a system that promotes playing the "good guy" instead of punishing others with RNG gun jams.

Here you see? Just some ideas, still wouldnt be enough to make everyone happy, and thats because BSG is literally trying to create a game so difficult to please every one with, that if they succeed, they might as well try to fix the middle east.

 

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mgoschie
35 minutes ago, GeneralBrus said:

IF Tarkov wants to focus on PvP, then a lower playercount would create a better "hardcore shooter" experience.

 

 

3 hours ago, p4nnus said:

OFC it has. If you can, willingly, run through the map without even looking, without a weapon, to loot spots, because you know you have room to do it, its easier than what we have now. If theres less PMCs theres less to worry about. 

Its obvious. Please provide something to back up the argument against it if you can.

Many skilled players run willingly through the map killing onsite with little care of any loot until they have mopped up some of the players around them.

Players need to have challenges and goals that go beyond slaughtering other PMCs. Like GeneralBrus was saying, the game has identity issues and it needs to figure out which direction it wants to go.

I would half PMCs across all maps and increase the SCAV spawns to accomplish two things...

1) The servers are overloaded, and players contribute far greater to that than the SCAV AI. If player counts are halved, the desync issues would improve, and peekers advantage would be limited. You might actually have long sustained fire fights instead of trades which would increase the difficulty of PvP.

2) Player collaboration in Tarkov is nonexistent. I witnessed a hatchling running from a 3 man being chased all the way across Customs for literally no reason. Consist and wide ranging SCAV spawns would provide players a challenge. At the moment, the AI on most maps are extremely random and unpredictable. If I go onto Woods, I'd like to see some weak SCAVs spawn around the convoy as if they are 'checking it out'. When I waltz into USEC camp, I'd like to have a SCAV boss that decided it was a pretty great place to setup shop. Hell I'd like a second SCAV boss in the town. Hell and even more hell, I'd like to face a SCAV patrol in the actual woods! With all this said, players need more than simply 'kill 15 SCAVS on *insert map*'. We need a wide variety of difficult AI in consist places that tasks drive us to. These tasks needs to be one and done, so that players are not being funneled onto the same map nor objective. Maybe I'll see a PMC battling some SCAVs while I glass him 150 meters away and think, "these SCAVs have better loot than him... Lets help."

 

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H4zeMnesia

Well...  the game will be turn into an solo onffline mode :/

For exemple, Imagine /2 the PMC numbers on woods... this will be boring.. 

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Demented_Lemur

I don't think the issue is the amount of PMC's

 

I think the issue maybe map design. Some maps are just super congested in certain areas. This isn't necessarily a problem on its own; however, when there is only one area on the map with guaranteed worthwhile loot ie dorms on customs and resort on shoreline. Then the congestion is just multiplied as everyone is taking the same routes to get to those areas. 

Now having a sort of cornucopia on a map isn't really too much of a problem provided you can avoid the routes that people take to get there and there is decent loot outside of those areas. 

For example woods has its loot spread out quite well and is pretty open in terms of what paths you can take. Shoreline is another good example of this as it's still quite open despite the cornucopia in the middle.

Customs is problematic because your options in what routes to take are very limited especially when crossing the river. Customs I feel may need another expansion on big red side to open up new options on crossing the river. 

 

 

 

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p4nnus
6 hours ago, GeneralBrus said:

Should this game instead focus on surviving raids? I hope it would, even tho that is not what got me interested in this game from the start.

This happens right now too, but with a pretty high chance of PVP. In some maps its higher than in others, but as I said with just a little experience its pretty easy to just hide or avoid PVP in the beginning in other ways. Reducing players would make it easier, as even those with very little experience could avoid PVP, without going through any effort. They could just waltz through the map with timing, now its not just about timing but about listening and reading the raid.

6 hours ago, GeneralBrus said:

while there are players everywhere and you making it out mostly depends on you being lucky with your spawns and your enemies spawns, - this very gameplay reminds me of one of these super stupid battle royal games, and I really hope Tarkov doesnt turn into pubg with weapon modding.

But the players are not everywhere. From every spawn there is right now, maybe except in Factory, you can run a certain line and get to the center of the map with VERY low chance of getting shot. There is luck involved, but as I already said, as a player gets even some experience (knows where the spawns are) he will increase his chances a lot.

Many things are down to luck in EFT, but reducing players because unlucky spawns might lead to noobs getting destroyed is not a reason to make the raids quieter and safer for everyone. 100% wont happen.

7 hours ago, GeneralBrus said:

If you go straight for the extract, you'll get a "run through" so the game is punishing you for "surviving" as well.

Maybe if we add 3 new AI traders which can only be unlocked by having certain positive stats, we could give the players the promotion and rewards they need to feel like, what they are doing "matters".

You are misinterpreting on purpose. Ofc you must know that I mean a situation where a player runs through the map, without risk of getting killed by other PMCs, but still gets the XP. You only need to hit a few loot spots to get enough.

7 hours ago, GeneralBrus said:

BSG needs to decide what the GOAL of the game is, right now BSG is trying to be:

Nah. Thats just a nope. They dont have to decide between these, you are missing the goal for EFT completely, its a hybrid. No wonder you have such silly thoughts and agree on this reducing of PMCs! 

You need to understand, that these are not quests were doing. They are sidequests aka trader tasks. The main questline will have the PMC go through raids in order, while uncovering whats going on. Then you get to the phase which we are testing now, the phase were you can raid all of the maps and just do trader tasks, PVP, PVE, etc.

If you dont understand the goal, I recommend watching podcasts and reading Q&As.

7 hours ago, GeneralBrus said:

IF Tarkov wants to focus on PvP, then a lower playercount would create a better "hardcore shooter" experience.

IF Tarkov wants to focus on PvP, then a larger playercount would create a better " twitch shooter" experience.

This is a misconception. Its not like this at all. The mechanics how we play the game matter way more than the amount of players. Theres nothing HC about being safe, no matter how carelessly you waltz thru a map, because theres so little threats in it. Thats absolutely ridiculous. 

A twitch shooter is also something completely different, than what the goal for EFT is. What we have now is not even close to one, but the mechanics will nonetheless be made more HC. A twitch shooter is not the opposite of HC shooter anyways. 

But no, its not about the amount of players that defines a game to be HC or casual, its the mechanics that you play with. OFC the player amount plays a part too, Im not saying that it wouldnt, but youve got it wrong. I think you mix a hardcore shooter with a tactical shooter. They are often similar, but to be hardcore doesnt mean that there cant be a lot of players. For instance, for Streets of Tarkov theres gonna be like 40 players per raid. The map is gonna be huge too, but I dont think its comparable to Customs in a way that its 4 times bigger. I believe it will be denser as well with the PMCs. Theres nothing in this picture that makes it less HC, quite the opposite. 

Things like TTK, Ballistics, asymmetry, unforgiveness, (semi-)permadeath, these are HC shooter characteristics. Not low player count.

7 hours ago, GeneralBrus said:

Here you see? Just some ideas, still wouldnt be enough to make everyone happy, and thats because BSG is literally trying to create a game so difficult to please every one with, that if they succeed, they might as well try to fix the middle east.

I think you are completely misinformed about what is a HC game and dont really have the perspective to say what would happen if the playercount was halved. It would make EFT 200% easier, on top of it being very easy already ATM. The direction is towards more HC if we believe BSG (I do). Having less threats can never be harder or more HC, more unforgiving, than more threats. 

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p4nnus
6 hours ago, mgoschie said:

Many skilled players run willingly through the map killing onsite with little care of any loot until they have mopped up some of the players around them.

Players need to have challenges and goals that go beyond slaughtering other PMCs. Like GeneralBrus was saying, the game has identity issues and it needs to figure out which direction it wants to go.

EFT doesnt have identity issues, you and GeneralBrus just dont seem to know about the plans for EFT. Theres gonna be more than what we are testing right now. As I said, the main questline, also events, modifiers to raids & traders, weekly tasks and goals etc. 

The Karma will probably mix things up a bit too, so that killing everything all the time might not be as popular as it is now, in a phase where we are still testing the mechanical side of EFT, rather than features like Karma, or even balance.

6 hours ago, mgoschie said:

I would half PMCs across all maps and increase the SCAV spawns to accomplish two things...

1) The servers are overloaded, and players contribute far greater to that than the SCAV AI. If player counts are halved, the desync issues would improve, and peekers advantage would be limited. You might actually have long sustained fire fights instead of trades which would increase the difficulty of PvP.

The AI will never be such a threat, that it could be a replacement for PMCs. It would completely water down the experience. You wouldnt have to worry all the time and people who made any sounds could be tracked down even easier. You clearly cant understand all the effects this would have to the game.

The desync is a problem that needs fixing, but its not something that requires such drastic changes to the game, changes that change the identity of EFT. The netcode needs to be done better with the amount of PMCs we have now. Its being worked on all the time and the progress has been very good so far and Im sure GeneralBrus will agree on that if he has played since 2017.

This is the same kind of logic that people have when they suggest a KillCam to combat cheaters: there is a problem, which wont ever be solved completely, but it will be improved by making the systems concerning it better. To change the other mechanics of the game, to go around this problem, would be giving up in a sense. We dont need to implement these features to dodge the problem, we need to fix the problem as well as we can, without changing EFTs core foundation.

Long sustained firefights.. against bots.. which would increase difficulty? Compared to long sustained fire fights against PMCs, so other PMCs might come 3rd party? Youre not making any sense. Its very easy to engage bots and keep track of the surroundings, but this is not the case with PMCs oftenly. 

6 hours ago, mgoschie said:

2) Player collaboration in Tarkov is nonexistent. I witnessed a hatchling running from a 3 man being chased all the way across Customs for literally no reason. Consist and wide ranging SCAV spawns would provide players a challenge. At the moment, the AI on most maps are extremely random and unpredictable. If I go onto Woods, I'd like to see some weak SCAVs spawn around the convoy as if they are 'checking it out'. When I waltz into USEC camp, I'd like to have a SCAV boss that decided it was a pretty great place to setup shop. Hell I'd like a second SCAV boss in the town. Hell and even more hell, I'd like to face a SCAV patrol in the actual woods! With all this said, players need more than simply 'kill 15 SCAVS on *insert map*'. We need a wide variety of difficult AI in consist places that tasks drive us to. These tasks needs to be one and done, so that players are not being funneled onto the same map nor objective. Maybe I'll see a PMC battling some SCAVs while I glass him 150 meters away and think, "these SCAVs have better loot than him... Lets help."

Scav patrols and more dynamic behaviour is planned. Please follow the podcasts and Q&As to stay on track what is and whats not. Anyways, I feel like this is completely unrelated to the actual subject. Player collaboration will probably be increased, due to pressure about Karma and also some extracts etc might require in-raid teaming up. It will never be super forced though, EFT is a sandbox by nature, as well as other things. 

Sure, theres gonna be more scavs and the AI will be better, there will be more Bosses too in the new maps that are yet to be implemented, but none of this means that we should have less PMCs. Its not gonna happen 100%. Even with all the added scavs, bosses, features, hell, even if all the scavs were replaced with Raiders, EFT would be WAY easier with 50% player count. 

I dont mean to shut you down, but I can promise you that its not gonna happen. 

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BruxiePC

As a player of several years, one thing I have learned to counter the close-spawns are "waiting" spots. Tarkov is hard, but luckily loaded with dense bushes/cheeky areas of concealed cover.

You can be like the trap-door spider. Get in a concealed cover spot (bush, rock crevice etc.) and wait for unsuspecting prey (other fresh spawns) to run right by you and then bam - pop out of your cover and kill the enemy. Or if they aren't in visual range, just hold still and let them pass. If you get a chance to kill one do it, but don't go pushing a fight unless you WANT PvP. 

If you DO kill someone, stay in your cover if you have a suppressed weapon (which I always recommend a suppressor if you run solo like me). Wait for possible teammates of the dead guy or any cheeky third party players to try to loot the body. Give it at least 5 (I recommend 10) minutes before you leave your "waiting" area and loot once you know its clear. Then proceed thru the map. 

Even if you don't see/kill anyone, still give it 5-10 mins before you move out of your "waiting" spot. 

Most of the time no one will get close enough to your "waiting spot" to FORCE you to engage them and alternatively you may just let someone pass (example: you hear footsteps off in the distance running away but you don't leave cover to chase)

This has greatly increased my survival rate and K/D. Now I want to be clear, this is a WORKAROUND to the close spawns that we have right now. Just for anyone who is struggling with spawns, I hope the above helps you. No shame in being patient!!!

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ZabuzaLT
On 1/23/2021 at 3:37 PM, p4nnus said:

The problem with this is, that then the ones closer to the middle of the map would have such a big advantage over people, who spawn to the ends of the map. They can get early loot, early scav kills and even afterwards set up ambush for the coming players. When the spawns are somewhat close to each other, theres always a risk that someone will come 3rd party you, even if you have the middle-most spawn and set up ambush. This is as intended, tho the maps might be widened which will make it easier to have spawns a little bit more spread out. What Im saying is that you shouldnt expect the spawns to be distributed evenly across the maps, as the maps are asymmetric and it would make the RNG spawn system even more in favor of those who get lucky.

Thats all im asking man spread us out so i dont get engaged in first 5 secs of my spawn,

And the thing you said about providing evidence that being engaged at spawn is not fun can be easily found on youtube clips and streamers and forums, when they spawn and get shot in like 10sec of the match start,

and running or hidind is not always an option if u spawn in customs trailer park or zb12, there is no direction you can run to avoid PMC and the 3rd partys are so close to you .

 

PS I had another match and spawned opposite of big red next to to train wagons and got killed by Railroad to tarkow guy who sprinted towards me, I was also being engaged by the guy that spawned next to the containers close to me, match lasted 15 secs for me ,

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butterbro

It's impossible to make reasonable decisions about this until the worst of the spawns get dealt with. Customs especially. If I spawn in the pocket I just run downhill and chuck my gear in the water with zero hesitation. Even if it's a strong kit, you're pinched between two groups that could each be up to 5 people and both groups know they can't move freely until they've cleared your spawn so GOOD LUCK.

Fix that nonsense first, THEN decide if the PMC count is appropriate.

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ACuddlyBadger

If I get a scuffed spawn I toss my bag and just prone in tall grass and sit still. I snake so many PMC's doing it. If you want to get strategic with it you can have your group bait a firefight with you hiding in the grass between anticipated PMCs and your group. They run past you likely stepping right on you, start shooting your buddies and you show them the good news.

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GeneralBrus
13 minutes ago, butterbro said:

It's impossible to make reasonable decisions about this until the worst of the spawns get dealt with. Customs especially. If I spawn in the pocket I just run downhill and chuck my gear in the water with zero hesitation. Even if it's a strong kit, you're pinched between two groups that could each be up to 5 people and both groups know they can't move freely until they've cleared your spawn so GOOD LUCK.

Fix that nonsense first, THEN decide if the PMC count is appropriate.

Yeah, besides the fact that the spawns are way too close to each other, there are even some that straight up kill you.

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mgoschie
9 hours ago, butterbro said:

Fix that nonsense first, THEN decide if the PMC count is appropriate.

The reason why spawns are so close is because the PMC count is too high. There isn't an appropriate place to spawn them into. The only map that has this exception is woods, but the map was made larger while the PMC count remained the same.

Perhaps if they intend on keeping the PMC count the same then make all the maps larger.

In addition, make all routes accessible through a map. Shoreline and Customs each have three lanes that funnel players through them because the extracts are far too similar. These lanes are camped consistently, and those with extracts on the other side of it generally move quickly to get over it before campers can get setup.

For example, I have tasks on Shoreline which I am able to complete because the objectives are located on one side of the map. Unfortunately, I have to get to the other side for my extract, and I spent time working on my task. I can move up North where a SCAV spawn, and an extract are located, Resort/Power station, or beachside. At this point, it is a coin flip in hopes that I won't run into rats, or a litter of chads especially with the many tasks that orient themselves around killing other PMCs. The soft cover on Shoreline compared to Woods is terrible, so moving through without being glassed by a sniper is a miracle. Honestly the lack of trees on the map makes me question if it is even modeled within the same region. Regardless, Shoreline will have 10-13 players. If we calculate some statistics then there is an approximate 38.31% chance that you will run into a PMC through one of those lanes. If the map was accessible throughout the entire North to South, this chance would be significantly dropped as we would calculate based on per 100 meters or less. In fact, the chance would be lower than 20%.

Unfortunately, Customs is no better as the PMC count is 8-12 which equates to about a 32% chance, and the per distance probabilities would be relative as the size of the map from North to South is smaller than Shoreline particularly at these chokepoints.

With all of that said, we have not even discussed the lack of loot in various parts of both Shoreline and Customs. The entire Northeast and Northwest parts of Shoreline are void of loot. The map only has 8 loot areas: Pier, Resort, Weather Station, Power Station, Gas Station, SCAV Island, Town, and Sunken Town. If you take these loot areas and make a map out of them, it becomes awfully similar to Customs which explains many of its problems. In addition, the total amount of loot areas is less than the total PMC count. This is a massive problem.

A fix for Shoreline would be to make the resort grounds encompass the entire Northern side of the map spanning West to East with some room to go around. The main building can remain the same and would sit at the center of the resort's grounds. New buildings would be added such as a clinic, small waterpark, restaurant, bar, casino, etc, etc. They would be decent loot spots, but the main loot would be at the resort's center which we are already familiar with. I'd like to think many of these buildings rooftops could be accessed which would make for some fun rooftop to rooftop fire fights. Anyways, this fix would accomplish many things. It would spread out the PMC count, add more loot and loot areas, more soft and hard cover, and alternative extracts.

A similar fix for Customs can be employed, but I'd suggest making multiple areas merely extended. The map should be pushed North, and South allowing for more room to add several more Dorms. More stashes along the railroads that lead North. An entirely new path around the Northside of Big Red. A new loot spot and path in the Southeast.

Regardless of all of my suggestions, an immediate fix would be to lower the PMC count. Again, it would fix the server load issues lowering the desync and peekers advantage as well as limit the amount of spawn killings.

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butterbro
On 1/26/2021 at 10:29 AM, mgoschie said:

There isn't an appropriate place to spawn them into

 

The most on-brand thing BSG could do IMO would be to spawn the server's biggest squad directly on top of the map's biggest loot pile so they could play king of the hill. It wouldn't be fair and would drive players away in droves but the immersion factor would be through the roof!

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Pugglezz

I think instead, there should be 2 pmc waves, and you can select which wave to load into. The first wave would obviously be better for loot, but chances are you'll run into people more. Second wave has the tradeoff of surviving more but with less loot.

 

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  • 4 weeks later...
LooneyRyan

Set spawns are stupid and very old fashioned, spawns need to be randomized period....EFT's issue is it's been marketed as a very hard n brutal FPS and they put too much effort in keeping it that way without thinking stuff through if it's a practical change or not if it ticks the difficulty boxes it's in......

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  • 1 month later...
TuuuEZ
On 1/23/2021 at 9:41 AM, p4nnus said:

i sorta agree with you but honestly i think it would be better if there was just some sort of mmr to the game me being a level 19 and barely have good armour because i dont play muliple hours a day shouldnt be in a game with someone thats level 40+ wearing chad amour

 

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davidj123456

Do this and instantly everyone other than noobs will quit. It removes the entire main challenge of the game...

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