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Armor for arms/legs.


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Sometimes I spawn in and a pmc shoots me in the feet with a pistol or shotgun ignoring any type armor I'm using. This makes any armor useless in my opinion, if possible please add arm/leg armor or a full body armor like a juggernaut suit. 

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ldtorroc

This and been brought up time and time again. the people who play this game do not wish for that kind of protection even tho it needs it, These kinds of armor do exist and are viable. there is anything from anti stab armor for legs and arms, to armor up to level 3A+ but the devs dont think arm or leg meta are a thing in this game becouse how could it be when its just flesh flapping in the wind like a naked with his cheeks claping as he runs down the beach in rust. There is more then enough of these threads but most of the meta players are just going to scream saying we just want this to be COD or ARMA, where it taks 50 rounds of 9mm to go through a level 3A vest, or a level 4 or above vest. but hay? we get a fort... with no one uses.

The main argument around it is as followed. Its too heavy. with is a blatant lie, Unless the armor they are useing is armor steel or aluminum there is compostie armor for these areas with can weigh as less as .5 of a pound. But again the people who are saying no to it, are the guys who want to clip your chicken wing or shoot your big toe untill you die even tho they are already runing 50kg of armor and ammo already.

 

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Samurai_Mac

This is a great idea. However, it feel that it would give the Chads that final push to becoming godlike. Being somewhat invincible to lower caliber rounds, and the like. 

They would have to only cover the front of the limbs kinda like the shattered face mask, or something like that. 

 

I recommend you try to maintain awareness,  and try to use cover to protect your exposed extremities. I know it can't work 100% of the time, but it could potentially help you increase your survivability. 

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I'm not gonna lie I do need to work on my cover and where I am for fights, I think it would be cool to see a fat boy waddling around in a juggernaut suit though. It would have to make you walk and cant run and possibly only hip fire so its not too op. I do understand where your coming from with the shooting the arm and toe haha.

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The main argument around it is as followed. Its too heavy. with is a blatant lie,

Having actually run around with a full pack, rifle, and chest armour with metal plates I tend to disagree.
Yes it exists and you are correct in saying that. If you were mostly stationary then it may make sense in certain situations but good luck having it on hand and putting it on when they arise.

But no I feel it is not practical in this game.
During training we had one soldier collapse with heat exhaustion (even though he was hydrating) during training and when we took it off our shirts were soaked in sweat like we have been swimming.
And that was just chest armour...and we were not sprinting all over the place.
The idea of (slow) sprinting through the bush with full armour from head to foot...I would rather risk the bullet.... :)

In any regard, I find the "realism" arguments in games rather amusing.

People don't want realism. Not really. They want to be the hero in a movie.

In games like COD/Quake/CS games it is the hero in a Rambo style unrealistic movie.
In games like Hell Let Loose and this game it is more like a historically-based heroic movie like band of brothers.

A movie in either case.

But let's not pretend we want ACTUAL realism...and all that this implies.
e.g. You buy the game, if you die you may never play it again...spent most of your time guarding a checkpoint for hours in the sun....
 

From my observation the best games are the ones that recreate those cinematic moments. Heroically historical or otherwise.

So to come full circle:

If it helped create those moment, I am all for your idea.

Arguments for/against about 'realism' on this point I value not at all. :)

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p4nnus
On 1/24/2021 at 1:08 PM, ldtorroc said:

but the devs dont think arm or leg meta are a thing in this game becouse how could it be when its just flesh flapping in the wind like a naked with his cheeks claping as he runs down the beach in rust.

Why say things, when you dont know what youre talking about? 

image.png.c4e3c98ea626e449925cd813463e177f.png

This has been shown eons ago, probably will be implemented at some point as there is this render for it already. Wont protect as much as @Durrin wants it to, there is no such thing as juggernaut armor. What there is IRL, is only good for room clearing and it only protects from the front. It also hinders movement quite a lot and is heavy compared to no weights on legs.

On 1/24/2021 at 1:08 PM, ldtorroc said:

there is anything from anti stab armor for legs and arms, to armor up to level 3A+

On 1/24/2021 at 1:08 PM, ldtorroc said:

do exist and are viable

Let me see your sources. 

Do you know why these are not used almost ever by almost any military in the world? 

And @Durrin what you see in some casual games like COD, the juggernaut armor, is not a real thing. Its literally a beefed up EOD suit and EOD suits are not even designed to withstand AP rounds, for example, but shrapnel etc. 

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opiat3
On 1/24/2021 at 4:49 AM, Durrin said:

Sometimes I spawn in and a pmc shoots me in the feet with a pistol or shotgun ignoring any type armor I'm using. This makes any armor useless in my opinion, if possible please add arm/leg armor or a full body armor like a juggernaut suit. 

If they are shooting you in the foot, how is it ignoring armor ?!?

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ldtorroc
On 1/25/2021 at 11:09 AM, p4nnus said:

Why say things, when you dont know what youre talking about? 

image.png.c4e3c98ea626e449925cd813463e177f.png

This has been shown eons ago, probably will be implemented at some point as there is this render for it already. Wont protect as much as @Durrin wants it to, there is no such thing as juggernaut armor. What there is IRL, is only good for room clearing and it only protects from the front. It also hinders movement quite a lot and is heavy compared to no weights on legs.

Let me see your sources. 

Do you know why these are not used almost ever by almost any military in the world? 

And @Durrin what you see in some casual games like COD, the juggernaut armor, is not a real thing. Its literally a beefed up EOD suit and EOD suits are not even designed to withstand AP rounds, for example, but shrapnel etc. 

And in the same stream they said they dont know if they wish to relase it with leg armor or not. So at this point it we vary well could have Ballistic knee pads for all i know. But at the point All we do know is they have an image with thigh guards. with means they may wish to separate legs,  now hit zones for legs or even for arms as well. Trust me im excited by that armor but i dont see them adding it in.

 

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p4nnus
7 hours ago, ldtorroc said:

And in the same stream they said they dont know if they wish to relase it with leg armor or not. So at this point it we vary well could have Ballistic knee pads for all i know. But at the point All we do know is they have an image with thigh guards. with means they may wish to separate legs,  now hit zones for legs or even for arms as well. Trust me im excited by that armor but i dont see them adding it in.

Well yeah, I can understand that, but I would be surprised if they didnt as its pre-rendered already. It doesnt go lower than the thighs anyways, so shooting under that would be totally viable. But this sentence:

On 1/24/2021 at 1:08 PM, ldtorroc said:

but the devs dont think arm or leg meta are a thing in this game becouse how could it be when its just flesh flapping in the wind like a naked with his cheeks claping as he runs down the beach in rust.

This is what made me answer to you in the way I did. When the change was made, that scavs shoot higher instead of the legs, they started scoring more HS's, directly to the face. So then people complained about that and it had to be changed back to a lower point, more center mass, where it falls to the legs quite oftenly.

Its silly to think that this leg armor would be the answer to that. 

On 1/24/2021 at 1:08 PM, ldtorroc said:

These kinds of armor do exist and are viable.

These kind of armors are not used in the way they would be used in EFT. BSG doesnt want to make people be able to tank rounds, like a "juggernaut", we are moving in the opposite direction with the upcoming armor plate feature.

You said there are leg armors with 3A+ protection, which are viable and should thus be added. Could you please show your source on that? And also on what makes you think they are viable? Are you aware that literally nobody uses these in war-time operations? 

 

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ldtorroc

As you would like. These are 3a armor for the legs, some are legs, srom are thighs and shins' and one set is even for the fore arms.

Thigh 3a

thigh_armor.jpg

Shin 3a

shinguards.jpg

Forearm 3a

ForearmGuards.jpg

Pants 3a

ballistic-pants-front_o8o9-0d.jpg?t=1516

Thigh 3a

bulletblocker-nij-iiia-bulletproof-large

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GeneralBrus

You can take more than 10 rounds to your legs without getting dropped, you can already survive 3 times the amount of rounds compared to any arcade shooter, why would you even need more protection? Just so that you can spend another 200k before getting "head eyes" regardless?

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ldtorroc
8 minutes ago, GeneralBrus said:

You can take more than 10 rounds to your legs without getting dropped, you can already survive 3 times the amount of rounds compared to any arcade shooter, why would you even need more protection? Just so that you can spend another 200k before getting "head eyes" regardless?

head eyes or not, there are still people who would rather 5-10 tap you to leg then try to go through the visor, They can kill you even quicker if they are using the right flesh damage rounds.

 

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GeneralBrus
3 hours ago, ldtorroc said:

They can kill you even quicker if they are using the right flesh damage rounds.

true, but then you can ONLY kill with leg shots, making said round rather situation and luck dependent... 

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p4nnus
7 hours ago, ldtorroc said:

As you would like. These are 3a armor for the legs, some are legs, srom are thighs and shins' and one set is even for the fore arms.

Thigh 3a

And what forces in the world use them and for which kind of situations?

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ldtorroc
On 1/30/2021 at 10:37 AM, p4nnus said:

And what forces in the world use them and for which kind of situations?

Sadly the wouldn't be GI appointed most of the time, These would be seen more so for your swat teams and the like who are doing breach and clear ops. Now you may seen GIS with this kind of kit if they had bought it themselves for added protection. This kind of kit, has also seen wide spread use from PMC groups like blackwater and other groups. So it is not far fetched to think OUR pmc's could have their hands on it as well

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p4nnus
16 hours ago, ldtorroc said:

This kind of kit, has also seen wide spread use from PMC groups like blackwater and other groups. So it is not far fetched to think OUR pmc's could have their hands on it as well

Source for this? 

So yeah, from what we know this kind of equipment is used in situations where you dont have to move for long distances and you are in CQB only. It hinders movement and maneuverability so much that anyone that had to run through forests and fields would just throw it away. 

To be clear Im not against implementing this, but to say that its truly viable, in SERE situations or in the world of Tarkov, in the context we are in, is simply not true.

Its not viable IRL either, except for very limited sort of situations and in EFT the situations change from CQB to half-marathons quite quickly, except for maybe Factory. Literally almost no forces use armor that goes below the thigh. If you have sources pointing in the other direction, Id like to see it. Weve had GIs on these forums telling, that they got rid of even the shoulder pads (SAPI) as they were too much in the way so what makes you think that GIs would encumber themselves with leg armor? 

Anyways, even these armors have a lot of gaps between them, so scavs could still blow your legs to pieces with a shotgun. They would have an easier time doing it too, as you are slower. 

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ldtorroc

I would have to disagree with you on that, Having worked in the VA and having worked with solders personal as a nurse with these Gi who had lost limbs because they DID NOT have this kind of equipment. I can tell you for a fact there are people who would wear it if it mean their limbs could be salvaged. The problem with this argument is there are people on both ends of the board who will say different things. I know plenty of vets who if they had these they would have been wearing them even on patrol if they knew it could help protect their legs from stray bullet or frag from a grenade . Trust me, when i say this people who throw their equipment away because it dosnt 'work' for them, regret it after they have taken a bullet or a frag from a grenade and had to lose an arm or a leg.

no armor is going to be perfect until we can start mounting it to an articulated frame like a spartan suit. With this being said yes there will be gaps,  to try and put anything on the leg that covers the full legs such as those 3a pants would be too cumbersome to use. It is meant to give as much protection to the legs without hindering movement.

Now as far as them not being Truly viable, There are plenty of development in to armor plating with is on the cutting edge for this, where we have combined material plates with weight only a pound or less for the same protection as a 3a steel plate. Many of these arm and leg pads are using these kinds of materials to save on weight for the person wearing it.

As for scavs blowing past the armor, scavs could shoot the side of the torso on most of the armor we have in game with has no armor on the sides and get pass the armor, But that isnt in the game yet, so having gaps between the leg armor or arms wont be a big deal yet.

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cpltrout

they should add the juggernaut suit since in real life that suit looks bad ass but is actually made to stop shrapnel and the pressure wave from a explosive. It would be amazing watching cod kids run around in 70 pound suit nearly immune to hand grenades and then get murdered by a 9mm loaded with standard ball ammo. For gods sake that suit is around lvl 1 maybe 2 in few spots.   

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ldtorroc
6 hours ago, cpltrout said:

they should add the juggernaut suit since in real life that suit looks bad ass but is actually made to stop shrapnel and the pressure wave from a explosive. It would be amazing watching cod kids run around in 70 pound suit nearly immune to hand grenades and then get murdered by a 9mm loaded with standard ball ammo. For gods sake that suit is around lvl 1 maybe 2 in few spots.   

 

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p4nnus
On 2/3/2021 at 3:34 AM, ldtorroc said:

I would have to disagree with you on that, Having worked in the VA and having worked with solders personal as a nurse with these Gi who had lost limbs because they DID NOT have this kind of equipment. I can tell you for a fact there are people who would wear it if it mean their limbs could be salvaged.

These kinds of armors dont really prevent limb-loss if that sort of damage happens. Thats a completely backwards way of thinking about it. Im sure many of the soldiers that got crippled would choose not to enlist afterwards, but doesnt mean that they didnt enlist. Do you realize how silly that way of thinking is?

On 2/3/2021 at 3:34 AM, ldtorroc said:

The problem with this argument is there are people on both ends of the board who will say different things. I know plenty of vets who if they had these they would have been wearing them even on patrol if they knew it could help protect their legs from stray bullet or frag from a grenade . Trust me, when i say this people who throw their equipment away because it dosnt 'work' for them, regret it after they have taken a bullet or a frag from a grenade and had to lose an arm or a leg.

Im waiting for your source on PMCs using these. People dont use the SAPIs for a reason: they reduce their mobility and are in the way, they make you too heavy on top of everything else and so on. What people say in hindsight or without actual experience about this sort of equipment is totally irrelevant. You yourself said that GIs could buy them individually.. but they dont? Even like spec ops dudes dont? Why? 

And no, Im not gonna trust you after your anecdotes and claims. I need some proper sources to believe you. He said she said is not gonna do.

On 2/3/2021 at 3:34 AM, ldtorroc said:

It is meant to give as much protection to the legs without hindering movement.

But it still does hinder movement. The sentence is wrong. It should be "as much protection to the legs with as little hindering of movement as possible" which is the reality. 

On 2/3/2021 at 3:34 AM, ldtorroc said:

Now as far as them not being Truly viable, There are plenty of development in to armor plating with is on the cutting edge for this, where we have combined material plates with weight only a pound or less for the same protection as a 3a steel plate. Many of these arm and leg pads are using these kinds of materials to save on weight for the person wearing it.

If the cutting edge would be truly viable with the weight and hindering effects not overcoming the protectiveness, the cutting edge technology would be in use amongst worlds top operators. Its not AFAIK. Again, if you have anything to prove otherwise, with proper sources and not 2nd hand information, please provide it.

On 2/3/2021 at 3:34 AM, ldtorroc said:

As for scavs blowing past the armor, scavs could shoot the side of the torso on most of the armor we have in game with has no armor on the sides and get pass the armor, But that isnt in the game yet, so having gaps between the leg armor or arms wont be a big deal yet.

Just because we dont have the armor plate system yet, doesnt mean that other unrealistically protective armors should be implemented. That would be going backwards, instead of what is supposed to be the future of armor in EFT. Do you even realize this? The armor plates are gonna be implemented and then the places which are not realistically covered, wont be. Similarly, if these pants or pads were implemented, they would leave such gaps in-between that shotgun blasts to the legs would work almost as well as now. 

And to edit: what @cpltrout said was not true, but the fellas in the vid are not shooting AP rounds out of the AK or 5.56 rifle. (I dont consider Green Tip 5.56 an AP round as its not that in the modern setting and more penetrating rounds have been dev't because its not penetrating enough)

So what trout said is right and wrong. It would be amazing, in the sense that it would be completely out of some COD player power fantasy, so in a bad way in this context. Also, one just doesnt run ion a suit like this. Maybe jog for a little distance, but no running. But the" 9mm ball going through" is just him not knowing actually what he is talking about. 

M855A1 with repeated rounds close to each other couldve very well penetrated that kind of armor. M995 would take even less hits. 

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GeneralBrus
On 1/25/2021 at 6:09 PM, p4nnus said:

This has been shown eons ago, probably will be implemented at some point as there is this render for it already. Wont protect as much as @Durrin wants it to, there is no such thing as juggernaut armor.

True story, but yeah i guess with the armor zones update this will also only protect your front i guess, if they do it good most of this will be kevlar anyways.

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ldtorroc

At this point im going to settle on agreeing you and i are not going to be seeing eye to eye on this, and that's fine. There is nothing im going to be able to say that is going to change your mind or show you ether.  You have your view i have mine, But i did enjoy talking to you even if your just going to shoot it down saying that they are too bulky or not easy to use, You know kinda like a few armor systems we already had in game.

But im going to leave you with this, take it as you please with your own grain of salt.

1.  lvl3a and below is more often then not a kevlar weave or something similar to this, Meaning its more or less something you strap on with minimum bulk. yes there is lvl3a with consist of plates and those can be quite bulky.  But most of these forms of protections just strap to the body, no diffrent then a thigh holster or a high pouch other then the fact its bullet resistant.

2. lvl2, lvl3a, and lvl3 can all protect from small arms fire below rifle rounds. be it 9mm, buckshot, or even fragments or shrapnel

3.It is available for use to by or use, problem is most offten then not you will have to go out of the way to get it yourself if you are a GI because it would be relinquished to you meaning that is $ out of your own pocket, This i could figure would be the same for PMC's,But now for police, swat,fbi people like these would have quite a easy time getting their hands on these as their line of work require equipment like this

4.Armor gaps yes there is gaps in the armor, it is meant to protect the one of the most important parts of the body arteries let along the fleshy bits around it, This is meant to protect the legs as much as they can again from small arms, fragments, and shrapnel its not meant to protect you from rifle rounds When they add the system to the game to start targeting gaps in armor that will be great, then we can sit here all day shooting each other in the gaps of the armor, But for now as it stands i shoot you in the side where your liver is, your armor plate will protect you magically because reasons. poo will hit the fleshy bits, above or below the plates, it happens in combat.

5. uhmpwe If you dont know what it is, go look it up More or less what this is; is it the next stage of body armor.

6.problem with lvl3a and lower armor, its more less a vest for your legs. With no trauma pads for these locations, your legs are going to be hurting that energy has to go some place. Unlike alot of people i do know this fact. Unlike a normal plate with you would have a trauma pad behind to help absorb the energy of the rounds coming in These armor add-ons don't come with these with means if your getting shot in the leg with buckshot provide all the pellet land on your armor and not any where else your leg is going to feel that force, its not going to be happy it will bruise, But over all ther feamer should be-able to hold up to it with out braking

7. I look foward to when the plate system is finally put in to the game, i really do i have been waiting eagerly since they showed the first images of them. I do think it is a move in the right direction, But i do worry about how it will change the game, will we be seeing people running around with 2-3 plates in their bags when its damaged enough and just stap it out like we see in COD. or is it going to be something we can only do out of raid There is a QOL change this will make and the balance will change to meet this.

8. You can fight me all you like on this, telling me how unrealistic these pieces of armor are or are not, But in the end of the day they exist, just like the alytan ,just like the 6b47. They do exist, they are viable for those are willing to put up with wearing them and they should be an option we should have access too.

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p4nnus
2 hours ago, ldtorroc said:

5. uhmpwe If you dont know what it is, go look it up More or less what this is; is it the next stage of body armor.

Not protective against modern AP rounds. 

2 hours ago, ldtorroc said:

You can fight me all you like on this, telling me how unrealistic these pieces of armor are or are not, But in the end of the day they exist, just like the alytan ,just like the 6b47. They do exist, they are viable for those are willing to put up with wearing them and they should be an option we should have access too.

They are viable in certain situations, but not so viable in the ever changing situations of Tarkov that the armors would be truly needed. They would slow down a player so much that it alone would be too much of a penalty for them to be viable. 

The armors are not unrealistic, never said that. They exist and thus could be implemented. But if you think about it, this would require new slots for legs most probably and also hitboxes for something in front of legs. Even the increased dev effort is not a reason to not implement them, but the fact that PMCs dont use such equipment is. Some suits made out of this uhmpwe are tested by US SF, but this doesnt mean that its viable, theyre only figuring out if its worth it or not. Its said to "protect against rounds shot from ak-47", which means that its protective capabilities are viable against insurgents and the like, but probably not against Russian Spetsnaz who wield AP rounds. Tarkov happens to be filled with AP rounds and even .308, 7.62x54r and other calibers that would just ignore uhmpwe completely. If the reasoning behind the implementation would be = it exists and could protect a little bit against shotgun leg meta, its not enough, IMO, against the idea of PMCs having this kind of equipment, which again is not sth that feels authentic or realistic. 

So again, in this context, such protection is not enough to truly protect from the hazards there are and not even from shotguns in the way that the gameplay in EFT requires. Shotgun shells would find their way in from the gaps anyways, so leg meta would definitely stay. Simultaneously this would mean that the PMCs in EFT use more advanced and too encumbering gear, than what fits the PMC world. 

So yeah, they do exist, but they are not as viable as you think they are. If we speak about what there is in the market, the stuff doesnt protect enough to be viable in changing situations which are not only about room clearing. Having some prototype uhmpwe suits that the US SF is testing doesnt fit the setting any more than that. 

If we return to the photo, which has the pads for thighs, thats exactly as much as we should get. Anything more than that is not fitting in the context, but this is IMO. 

What is not IMO, is the fact that these kevlar pants and pads that go even in front of the shins are not used IRL, as they are too heavy and in the way of troops that have to move a lot. You yourself said it = GIs could buy them, from their own pocket if they truly thought they would protect enough vs how much they slow/weigh you down. Hindsight is irrelevant. As said, right now troops that engage in situations that are not clearly just CQB / room clearing ops dont use such equipment. If the op gets f'd, they are too much in the way of running, crawling, etc in the ensuing SERE situation. EFT is survival combat to some extent. Thus gear that is only good for 1 kind of situation is not truly viable. 

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p4nnus
On 2/2/2021 at 12:15 AM, ldtorroc said:

This kind of kit, has also seen wide spread use from PMC groups like blackwater and other groups. So it is not far fetched to think OUR pmc's could have their hands on it as well

You made this claim in this thread. Im still waiting for your source on this.

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