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Insurance for team players is OP: let them be their own insurance!


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LELOtheBear

[P.S.: I wasn't aware there was a "suggestions" subforum, i tried to post this on Reddit hoping BSG would've noticed it, bad idea. My suggestions are focused on what players need, not what players want, reason why my posts gets buried by downvotes without any valid and constructive comments]

Here's one of them (it's a copy-paste from the reddit post), i hope we could debate about this idea in this forum.

 

This game is full of players that bring their best gear and big backpacks when they play as a team because when they die then "Hey, be sure to throw my gear in the river so it's coming back tomorrow!" but when they play solo they go only pistols because of gear fear.

I know, because i was one of them last wipe, ending up with 200+ milion roubles and so much gear that forced me to buy 4 THICC items and 4 THICC weapon cases due to the amount of gear i never lost.

Now i mostly play solo, and i understand the struggle when you risk your gear every raid and you find the 5-thermal-slick-team that chase you like a mindless zombie horde, making sure nothing comes back by Prapor.

 

So that's my suggestion: remove the insurance for team players (just like Labs).

When one of them dies, the other members are "forced" to sacrifice precious space in their backpacks in order to bring some stuff back, the more of them dies, the "pickier" the guys who survived have to be.

This mechanic might incentivize people playing safer and more tactical while restoring some justice for solo players at the same time (he would see more stuff coming back due to the enemy team's busy backpacks).

This game is about surviving, right? What's the point when dying as a team player basically makes you not lose anything except bullets/meds?

 

[P.P.S.: a Reddit user also gave another idea: "only get items returned if they were attached to the dead body at the end of a raid", which would also prevent insurance fraud]

 

Thank you for your time!

Edited by LELOtheBear
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Samurai_Mac

How about just get rid of insurance? That raises the stakes right there, and solves the cheesy river issue.

I wouldn't be opposed to it, and it would definitely change the way EVERYONE plays the game. I'm a solo player and often feel like insurance is a waste If I go with a good kit. You never really get it ALL back. Unless you get head/eyes from a scav in the middle of woods, and Noone finds your body. 🤣

 

This needs to be talked about people! 

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Andrudis
12 hours ago, LELOtheBear said:

Here's one of them (it's a copy-paste from the reddit post), i hope we could debate about this idea in this forum.

Well, actually you address not one but several different aspects of the game. Lets split them separately:

1) Existence of inaccessible places where gear/loot/body can be places, but not retrieved again.

This is a global issue with levels design for multiple reasons and insurance scam is only one of them. Not sure what are BSG planning to do about this, if anything at all, but I hope this will get addressed at some point. Most likely it will not be addressed until EFT is switched to a new Unity 2019 engine, or until open world travels are implemented.

2)  Insurance scam - throwing gear of squad mates into inaccessible places, suicide on land mines, positioning near inaccessible places as solo (on bank of the river for example) so if you die, you body will fall into unreachable zone and cannot be looted.

This should be fixed by removing exploits from existence, but probably is not as high priority as fighting cheaters atm.

3) Unfair advantages of full squad vs solo

This is by design of this game: the more people playing with you in squad and the more often you play together - the easier your experience will be. Solo is meant to be the hardest and the most punishable one. This is unlikely to change at all, at least not until game is released from Beta.

4) Insurance usefulness as a game mechanic

There is a space for debate: 

a) some people do not use insurance at all, especially if they use expensive gear which is will be looted with 99% chance.

b) some people use insurance only for budget runs with cheap equipment hoping to save some money.

c) some use insurance all the time

We do not know how many people in each category are there - only BSG can compile statistic of insurance usage and make decisions if it is viable to keep it in the game at as is/change it/remove at all.

On the other hand BSG may have future plans for this mechanic: there were discussions about scav quests to fetch insured items given by traders in open world. Not sure if BSG is still considering  implementing something like this. But if they actually plan that real player-scavs will search for those insured items and bring them back (instead of current magical incorporeal scavs), then we will have to wait until open-world mechanic is implemented and test it, before decision can be maid to keep new mechanic or remove along with insurance. 

Me personally - do not use insurance at all any more, but I've used it a lot previous 2 wipes.

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LELOtheBear
6 hours ago, Samurai_Mac said:

How about just get rid of insurance? That raises the stakes right there, and solves the cheesy river issue.

 [...]

This needs to be talked about people! 

You know what? that doesn't sound bad at all! of course that would made people really mad when they get head-eyes'd by a scav with buckshot but that's still something they should really think about

4 hours ago, Andrudis said:

...

I like how you actually "layered" the reasons behind my suggestion, i've never considered about not insuring my gear before, because since i started playing (March 2020) people told me to insure everytime (except Labs, of course).

 

Removing the insurance completely would "balance the punishment" between solo and squads, it would also save a lot of time for devs that should fix all those inaccessible places.

That would make the game even more hardcore, which is the direction i guess this game is going to.

Edited by LELOtheBear
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Andrudis
24 minutes ago, LELOtheBear said:

it would also save a lot of time for devs that should fix all those "unlootable spots"

Those "unlootable spots" still need some kind of fixing, because insurance or not, but if you killed someone in fair fight and unable to loot his body because it fell into "unlootable spots" - that is still a problem and it cannot be fixed by removing insurance as a game mechanic.

24 minutes ago, LELOtheBear said:

Removing the insurance completely would "balance the punishment" between solo and squads

Agree, but lets think about the situation from the other side: if BSG really has plans to make insured items retrieval solely as a daily task for player-scavs, than insurance scam will not be a thing any more, because if you throw insured item somewhere other PMCs cannot loot it - that means dispatched players-scavs also will not be able to retrieve it and insurance will fail. Also there can be an additional risk involved that dispatched player-scavs will decide to keep items and fail quest (in exchange for reputation/karma penalty). I am not sure that will be implemented, I saw no explicit confirmation or denial, but that what I saw discussed at some point. My point - the BSG do not have to remove insurance completely to remove insurance scams, but some changes to what we have now could definitely make whole game better. 

24 minutes ago, LELOtheBear said:

That would make the game even more hardcore, which is the direction i guess this game is going to.

Yes, Nikita confirmed multiple times that game will be much much much much harder than it is now. The next major milestone and turning point for game will be release of Streets of Tarkov planned for Q3 2021(plans can change). reaching that milestone will unblock a lot of features that are either lower priority at a moment or require new mechanics to get better. I doubt BSG will just throw away something they spent time working on, more likely they will try to make it work better in the future. 

 

Edited by Andrudis
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Salted1337
6 hours ago, Samurai_Mac said:

I wouldn't be opposed to it, and it would definitely change the way EVERYONE plays the game.

No it wouldn't. Considering they raised insurance price, nobody that I know actually insures their gear anymore. Doesn't matter what gear it is. Penis with helmet or slick and rys. It doesn't matter. Only thing that people do actually insure is their headset.

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Samurai_Mac
3 hours ago, Salted1337 said:

No it wouldn't. Considering they raised insurance price, nobody that I know actually insures their gear anymore. Doesn't matter what gear it is. Penis with helmet or slick and rys. It doesn't matter. Only thing that people do actually insure is their headset.

You know... I've heard this before.

so it wouldn't matter too much to you, or the people you know, if they got rid of the mechanic then. 

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LELOtheBear
4 hours ago, Salted1337 said:

No it wouldn't. Considering they raised insurance price, nobody that I know actually insures their gear anymore. Doesn't matter what gear it is. Penis with helmet or slick and rys. It doesn't matter. Only thing that people do actually insure is their headset.

Sounds like you are already experiencing the hardcore way, reason why your opinion has good value.

What's the gear you usually bring in raid? do you still enjoy the game? does it make more (or less) immersive?

I think insurance in its current state is still too much forgiving in a team, imho in this game a single mistake could make the difference between surviving or losing your stuff, doesn't  matter how many players you play with.

People who never lose their stuff start to behave like in any other game where you don't lose anything once you die, there's no incentive to play safe and smart and tactical if you get your stuff back in 24 hours due to your friend hiding your gear every raid.

Edited by LELOtheBear
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