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Sniper Ballistics and Scopes


Bushmaster
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So first off I'd like to say that I'm a big bolt action guy but I do play normally and for most situations what I'm about to go on about doesn't really matter much. However I do shoot long range irl and a lot about this game when it comes to ballistics and scopes for long range shooting is a bit disappointing. In the last wipe I did a lot of testing and math to mitigate the oddities of hitting long range shots in tarkov, this wipe is a bit different as I can't seem to get my test target (sniper scav on woods) to spawn in reliably or the weather to work in my favor. I would have to load into 10+ offline raids to get one where I can see out to 600M and have a target to hit a headshot to confirm where my round is landing, I don't have the time or patience for that. So from what I can tell at least for the m80 round atm is that they have made the ballistics better in this wipe (not as much drop but still more than irl) but now all my range cards are wrong and I have no way to test, so long range shooting is out of the question if its out past the range of whatever scope you are using with its unrealistic adjustments.

 

Scopes

So at first glance the scopes look great and seem just like the real thing, the only problem with them is if you know how to use a mildot reticle like on the Eotech VUDU SR-1 they are not to scale so they are useless without reverse engineering with some simple math and testing. So what I did was a series of measuring a scav in mills, taking a shot and looking at the after action report to get the actual range of the target. So If you know the range is say 200M and you measure your target in mills which is 6.8 at that range you would do 6.8 * 200 = 1,360mm. So your target according to the scope is 1.36 meters tall which is pretty short, 4'6" for us americans. Knowing your target height we can now range any standing target but it also tells us how far off the zoom or scale really is (I'm guessing it's the zoom as I've seen a 16x scope have more zoom than a 20x scope). So if the in game characters are average height they would be 1.7M tall not 1.36M, if you do the percent difference, 1.36 is 80% of 1.7 and there you go. We have 20% more zoom than we should and if they got that corrected that's all it would take to make things work as they were meant to. 

 

Scope adjustments are another topic and I understand and believe they go by "as realistic as playable"  so I don't know if they will ever change from doing a zeroing adjustment by meters but its just not how its done irl. If you know how to use a mildot reticle then having a scope that is adjusting in mills is just way easier to do, if you know at a given range what your drop is (this takes some ballistic testing or calculating) then you can use the reticle to hold over or dial that exact amount into your scope and bam your on target. Also this would give you the ability to adjust out to way longer ranges than what you can holdover with on the reticle and if you have a spotter with a mildot reticle he could see how much you were off in mill and give you the adjustment to get your round on target. IMO this would be amazing to do with a friend and it can sort of be done in game but there are so many things that could be done to make sniping more realistic and just downright cool AF.

 

Ballistics

 

So I won't go into this too deep because it can get complicated with different muzzle velocities, drag models, ballistic coefficients, ext. I will start with how things are now, currently from what my testing has told me the muzzle velocity stat will change with different parts and one who shoots long range would expect the bullet drop to change but that is not the case. With whatever rifle I use weather its the sr20 at 700m/s or m700 at 900m/s the drop is the same so long as you use the same round. I'm fine with that even though its not realistic it makes using different rifles way easier because they all have the same drop if you use the same round, "as realistic as playable" works nicely for this. However I have ran real 7.62x51 M80 data thought a ballistics calculator and can tell you with a muzzle velocity of 833m/s and a ballistics coefficient of .393 using the recommended g1 drag model the real round has about a 204cm drop at 500M. However in game its about 100cm more drop at 500M than the real round. I would really like to see eft use actual ballistics calculations, it's really not that hard at the end of the day to collect real data and run them through a calculator with standard weather at sea level and just try to match that in game. 

 

Conclusion

 

There would be two ways I think Battle State could make sniping more realistic and practical, either way would start with making the scopes zoom and reticles scale correct because without that you have to do some wonky stuff as I have stated earlier and have the scope adjustments as they should be either in MOA or Milliradians once you know how to use a scope you can range and adjust properly. 

1) If bullet trajectory will stay per round and the weapon parts don't effect it you can put the real ballistics calculations in game and give us an in game range card in mill or moa that give us the adjustments needed to make a round land on target

2) Put proper ballistics in game, make the rifles muzzle velocity stat actually dictate how the bullet will fly, then give us the proper data to use an actual ballistics calculator and we can literally print out a working range card. IMO this would be the most realistic option the only data we need is the weight of the bullet, ballistic coefficient, and drag model used. It is already in game that when you put a round in the chamber it changes the muzzle velocity, with all that you can plug in numbers and your good to go

 

Without any of the above sniping is just a guessing game, especially when shooting past the scopes adjustment. Even if you are shooting within the range of your scopes adjustment some rounds are not going to be accurately zeroed, .366 AP is slow so it will fall way short at and M995 is so fast it will hit significantly high. It seems to me that if your rounds velocity is about 830m/s it will be accurate but if its way off that you have to guess how much to adjust your hold. I hope one day sniping will be better and that's why I took the time to write all this so if you are a dev and this interests you at all feel free to message me I would be happy to help or elaborate more on this subject.

 

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I'd love to see a ballistics overhaul, but I highly doubt it will happen. This game claims ultra-realistic status in FPS but it's noticeable in things like head-eyes mechanics, not in the zeroing of weapons, ballistics models or recoil control. It makes me cringe doing any sort of bolt quest on here because of how laughable the zeroing system is on top of how much of a joke bolt snipers are compared to the DMR and assault rifle laser like representation presented in this game. There is no clear intermediate and long range caliber distance differentiation, or if there is, there are no maps designed to stretch that out enough to force the unrealistic MOA levels of every gun to the test.

TLDR: This game has a ton of bullshit unrealistic gun play despite every white night fan boy disputing it

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I know how you feel Bushmaster, I feel so much cringe with Hollywood "realism" in this game for guns and ballistics especially lol. Thanks for spreading the word of this issue though, I also did that. I hope enough people see these posts to realise that those issues rather damage the game quite badly. Although I'm for 100% realism or as close as possible to it for small arms and ammunition instead of it being somewhat realistic, but that'd be better than nothing.

20 minutes ago, bobdole513 said:

I'd love to see a ballistics overhaul, but I highly doubt it will happen. This game claims ultra-realistic status in FPS but it's noticeable in things like head-eyes mechanics, not in the zeroing of weapons, ballistics models or recoil control. It makes me cringe doing any sort of bolt quest on here because of how laughable the zeroing system is on top of how much of a joke bolt snipers are compared to the DMR and assault rifle laser like representation presented in this game. There is no clear intermediate and long range caliber distance differentiation, or if there is, there are no maps designed to stretch that out enough to force the unrealistic MOA levels of every gun to the test.

TLDR: This game has a ton of bullshit unrealistic gun play despite every white night fan boy disputing it

That's why many people need to talk about ballistics in Tarkov to convince BSG to finally do it despite how easy most of it would be. I told a moderator on this forum about this before, but I was just ignored despite being 100% right lmao

Edited by Isaacdevil
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the forums just attract more white knights and moderators, pretty similar to the other games I've played, you have to rant and rave on the reddit and then it has to get like 2000 upvotes before you may get notice from nikita

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11 minutes ago, bobdole513 said:

the forums just attract more white knights and moderators, pretty similar to the other games I've played, you have to rant and rave on the reddit and then it has to get like 2000 upvotes before you may get notice from nikita

Yeah I guess, but I thought of making a Youtube video about it at some point to attract more attention about this.

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Veritas does some great videos on how the zeroing isn't universal and what you think it is. This has been a hot topic for a while, just not a priority to fix

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15 minutes ago, bobdole513 said:

Veritas does some great videos on how the zeroing isn't universal and what you think it is. This has been a hot topic for a while, just not a priority to fix

I seen the Youtube video, but I'm still skeptical with BSG actually wanting to fix it because it should much higher priority than adding new content lol.

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along with the desync issues, severe peek advantage, netcode nonsense, economy blowout with bitcoin, etc.... there's a lot I love about this game, but I laugh out loud a lot when I see the folks say it's the most realistic shooter known to man...

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1 hour ago, bobdole513 said:

along with the desync issues, severe peek advantage, netcode nonsense, economy blowout with bitcoin, etc.... there's a lot I love about this game, but I laugh out loud a lot when I see the folks say it's the most realistic shooter known to man...

Admittedly; I wish I could love this game more, but some Hollywood-type features and inconsistencies really bother me at times. I hate that no video game can seem to get guns and related things right because its one of my only outlets for my passion in guns (my country ducking hates guns).

Edited by Isaacdevil
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Hello @Bushmaster! Great post, brother!

In the past, Nikita has agreed that ballistics and scopes are currently not true-to-life accurate. Every time this topic has come up in the TarkovTV sessions, he's always reiterated that a "fix" is in the works and could be overhauled in the base game whenever they begin work on a sniper related DLC.

So fingers crossed! :)

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10 minutes ago, Spectator6 said:

Hello @Bushmaster! Great post, brother!

In the past, Nikita has agreed that ballistics and scopes are currently not true-to-life accurate. Every time this topic has come up in the TarkovTV sessions, he's always reiterated that a "fix" is in the works and could be overhauled in the base game whenever they begin work on a sniper related DLC.

So fingers crossed! :)

Wait, when did he say that? Although I doubt he actually wants this fixed quickly, but I'm curious to see how much he actually cares about realism in Tarkov. If he doesn't, then it'd be pointless trying to encourage realism.

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16 minutes ago, Isaacdevil said:

Wait, when did he say that? Although I doubt he actually wants this fixed quickly, but I'm curious to see how much he actually cares about realism in Tarkov. If he doesn't, then it'd be pointless trying to encourage realism.

Sorry, after all the stuff I've read and watched, it all just blurs together :p Wish I could give you something more specific. If I had to guess, I'd say maybe it was 2019-ish?

I do recall specifically he's talked about range finders, binoculars, and maybe even wind being part of the overhaul as well. There was even some talk about allowing players to use scopes as a "stand-alone" item. So the player could raise a scope up to his eye without having it mounted to a rifle, etc.

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1 hour ago, Spectator6 said:

Sorry, after all the stuff I've read and watched, it all just blurs together :p Wish I could give you something more specific. If I had to guess, I'd say maybe it was 2019-ish?

I do recall specifically he's talked about range finders, binoculars, and maybe even wind being part of the overhaul as well. There was even some talk about allowing players to use scopes as a "stand-alone" item. So the player could raise a scope up to his eye without having it mounted to a rifle, etc.

Its okay, I could try to find it at some point but those preferences of his are better than nothing. Although ammunition and armour stats being really off can be super annoying at times when playing. I don't know how to ignore Hollywood poo like that lol

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For me personally, fixing the movement should be prioritized over things like bullet drop, but I agree more depth in these mechanics would be much better.

At the moment, some of the gunplay reminds me of Battlefield. You don't have to calculate bullet drop, just learn what arbitrary value the game has put on it, which takes away from the experience somewhat.

Its a shame as the environments and assets are so real and the survival gameplay feels amazing but the gunplay is a bit of a letdown at the moment.

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  • 3 months later...

Yes, I am also a bolt-action rifle enthusiast, and the farthest personal record is 613.68 meters in the customs killed a sniper AI. But what must be said is that if this game has a perfect long-range shooting system, I believe that I will attack PMC at 300 meters instead of being nonsense, as if a knight is charging at a machine gun, and fighting with an automatic weapon at 100 meters. ...

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So, you are saying that a game where a naked scav takes 3x 7.62x51 shots to the chest to die or 7x 5.56x45 also naked to die... Has not realistic sniping mechanics? Wow, who would have guessed?

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let's have a look here:

and here:

 

please note that the actual magnification lvl is actual wrong ingame, so you first have to find the right magnification to calculat distance on long range.

If i have more time i can post for nearly every scope the actual mathematical formular to calculat distance in game, variance in this is around + - 5cm ingame.

short formular if you want to do it by yourself:

Formular is

r = s / MRAD x mag/zmag

r= distance in m

s = size in mm

MRAD = count the mils on the scope

mag = magnification level you use

zmag = magnification level where 1MRAD eguals 1cm on 100m

 

for some scopes you need MOA calculation:

 

Where r is in yards and s is in inch.

 

It's

 

r= (s*95.5 / MOA) * (mag/zmag)

the 95.5 is nessesary cause 1 MOA spreads about 1″ per 100 yards but it's actually 1.047"!

then you have to convert r in m!

 

r*0,9144 = (s*95.5 / MOA) * (mag/zmag)

 

please alos note that big scopes like an x24 sometimes zero mag on 12x so some formulats can be like

 

r= s/MRAD * 20/12 etc.

Edited by SuzuranCrow
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Leupold Mark 4:

r = 1232,5/MRAD

mag=14,5x

zmag=20x

MIL

EOTech Vudu 1-6:

r = 1416,7/MRAD

mag = 5

zmag = 6

March Tactical 3-24x42 FFP

r = 3155,438 / MRAD

mag = 13

(if you compare the pixels with nightforce and the march both should have 14x! )

zmag = 24

 

Actually, however, I can no longer guarantee the formulas because I created them with patch 0.12.5. at that time i always calculated this with single headshots on scavs from the same point with the same kill distance.

everyone should also note that the calculation of the range here also has the variance of the distance between the first lens and the muzzle, which is why a deviation in cm can also occur here if used correctly.

 

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We need high rise positions opened up on all maps like we got on reserve and resort on shoreline... some maps got the range but the visibilty is clouded by fog

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