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Thoughts on cheating


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Oxid-EFT

This is not meant to be a post about crying over cheaters in the game, im just interested in knowing if other people see it the same way as me. I have played a few wipes up until this point and despite all the changes BSG have made to combat cheating it seems to run rampant at the moment. Last wipe i had around 500 raids and only met a handful of cheaters, this wipe it seems to happen once every day im on at least that som guy runs and guns me down from 200+ meters away. I wonder if removing the flea market would be a good move right now to make it stop?

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TarkovCitizen4431498

Without a flea market you will still have people who are really bad at this game that want an advantage over others. You will also still have people that don't use cheats, but instead prefer to buy roubles. I don't believe it will have the huge impact you are looking for. 

Instead it will more likely annoy the avarage player who barely stays afloat by selling items for way more on the flea market compared to traders.

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behi09ma
42 minutes ago, Oxid-EFT said:

This is not meant to be a post about crying over cheaters in the game, im just interested in knowing if other people see it the same way as me. I have played a few wipes up until this point and despite all the changes BSG have made to combat cheating it seems to run rampant at the moment. Last wipe i had around 500 raids and only met a handful of cheaters, this wipe it seems to happen once every day im on at least that som guy runs and guns me down from 200+ meters away. I wonder if removing the flea market would be a good move right now to make it stop?

removing the flea market will not stop the RMT cheaters. they will sell the roubles from their party websites and going inside raids with the buyers.

will it annoy them?! yeah probably. but removing the flea will annoy us as players more than them. that's my point of view

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Oxid-EFT

Thank you for the reply guys and i see your points. I browsed through a cheater forum the other day and im surprised how relaxed they are about this. Are BSG doing enough about scaring them away from cheating or is the radar cheat f.ex. become a problem they just cant fix? One of the cheats is being sold saying its 7 months undetected now..

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scrappercb

To be honest I think the issue of cheating in online competitive gaming will continue to be ubiquitous until legislation catches up to deal with it within countries and across jurisdictions.

In my opinion coding cheats for online games as well as using them should be a criminal offense - one major one relatively minor.  I see people who aimbot etc as committing acts of digital vandalism that stops it from being a victimless crime.  Companies spend huge sums of money trying to combat the cheaters in a never ending arms race of way to game the system vs. way to catch people doing so.  It costs those companies a lot of money while at the same time damaging the reputation and saleability of their product.  In that sense I view it as similar to someone who smashes or tags a shop window - the owner has to spend money fixing it, their insurance will go up and while it's being fixed it damages the look and value of their business.

Until a time when the actual cheat user gets punished and cheat creators can be run down for costs/ damages and in the event of being unable to pay be sent to prison I don't think much will change.

In future it may be possible for deep learning computers to analyse variables around player movement, actions and so on and identify and ban cheaters without having to necessarily combat specific code that is manipulated in the game per-say but as of right now that's still a long way off.

I don't think that there are any simple solutions for a company like BSG in the current environment.  IF they removed the flea all that would change is the $ cost to rouble ratio of RMT might increase somewhat.  The people that would pay cash for roubles will still be there, so demand will still be there and where there is demand someone will be doing whatever they need to in order to make that money.

Probably the simplest solution for BSG would be to allow in-game cash purchases of roubles for relatively low cost in dollar value, which would destroy the business model for many of the RMT cheaters out there. You'd still have scrubs who cheat because they suck, but the ones who do it as a business would disappear.  That said doing this would undermine much of what makes Tarkov the game it is.

It sucks but I think that's the way things are and will be for the foreseeable future.

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Oxid-EFT
2 minutes ago, scrappercb said:

To be honest I think the issue of cheating in online competitive gaming will continue to be ubiquitous until legislation catches up to deal with it within countries and across jurisdictions.

In my opinion coding cheats for online games as well as using them should be a criminal offense - one major one relatively minor.  I see people who aimbot etc as committing acts of digital vandalism that stops it from being a victimless crime.  Companies spend huge sums of money trying to combat the cheaters in a never ending arms race of way to game the system vs. way to catch people doing so.  It costs those companies a lot of money while at the same time damaging the reputation and saleability of their product.  In that sense I view it as similar to someone who smashes or tags a shop window - the owner has to spend money fixing it, their insurance will go up and while it's being fixed it damages the look and value of their business.

Until a time when the actual cheat user gets punished and cheat creators can be run down for costs/ damages and in the event of being unable to pay be sent to prison I don't think much will change.

In future it may be possible for deep learning computers to analyse variables around player movement, actions and so on and identify and ban cheaters without having to necessarily combat specific code that is manipulated in the game per-say but as of right now that's still a long way off.

I don't think that there are any simple solutions for a company like BSG in the current environment.  IF they removed the flea all that would change is the $ cost to rouble ratio of RMT might increase somewhat.  The people that would pay cash for roubles will still be there, so demand will still be there and where there is demand someone will be doing whatever they need to in order to make that money.

Probably the simplest solution for BSG would be to allow in-game cash purchases of roubles for relatively low cost in dollar value, which would destroy the business model for many of the RMT cheaters out there. You'd still have scrubs who cheat because they suck, but the ones who do it as a business would disappear.  That said doing this would undermine much of what makes Tarkov the game it is.

It sucks but I think that's the way things are and will be for the foreseeable future.

Amen!

it really sucks the fun out of the game we love, i just really hope it doesnt kill the game completely.

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Majlo
5 minutes ago, scrappercb said:

Probably the simplest solution for BSG would be to allow in-game cash purchases of roubles for relatively low cost in dollar value, which would destroy the business model for many of the RMT cheaters out there.

RMT would not go away by BSG selling in-game items for IRL money, it would only lower the cost of in-game RUB per IRL dollar. Just look at any other MMORPG that does this (RuneScape for example). All it does is make it cheaper to buy 3rd-party in-game currency.

Sure, it makes selling in-game currency for the people who does so less profitable, but you also have to consider BSG's image.

BSG has themselves stated "No microtransactions in EFT" as a very key part of their business.

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opiat3
34 minutes ago, Oxid-EFT said:

Thank you for the reply guys and i see your points. I browsed through a cheater forum the other day and im surprised how relaxed they are about this. Are BSG doing enough about scaring them away from cheating or is the radar cheat f.ex. become a problem they just cant fix? One of the cheats is being sold saying its 7 months undetected now..

Well, if you sold cheats, would you not say they are undetectable?

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Oxid-EFT
10 minutes ago, opiat3 said:

Well, if you sold cheats, would you not say they are undetectable?

Its not that they are saying its undetectable but bragging over the fact it has been undetected for more than 7 months.

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scrappercb
1 hour ago, Majlo said:

RMT would not go away by BSG selling in-game items for IRL money, it would only lower the cost of in-game RUB per IRL dollar. Just look at any other MMORPG that does this (RuneScape for example). All it does is make it cheaper to buy 3rd-party in-game currency.

Sure, it makes selling in-game currency for the people who does so less profitable, but you also have to consider BSG's image.

BSG has themselves stated "No microtransactions in EFT" as a very key part of their business.

Totally agree dude, but with EFT being an expensive game cheaters would have to be a little less blatant to make enough RMT to cover the cost of what they do, buy a new key and stay in front of the curve before getting caught and banned one way or another.  It wouldn't eliminate it entirely, but it would concentrate it further into certain regions where the cost of living is low enough to make it a viable path for someone.

BSG doing the micro trans route would certainly undermine the hardcore aspect of Tarkov for sure as well which I'm sure they wouldn't want as it's a major point of difference between it and other FPS games.

Like I said I don't think there are any silver bullets for this crap in the short term.

Edited by scrappercb
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Majlo
7 minutes ago, scrappercb said:

EFT being an expensive game

I don't see how EFT is expensive. Sure, there are expensive editions, but the standard edition is not so.

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opiat3
2 hours ago, Majlo said:

I don't see how EFT is expensive. Sure, there are expensive editions, but the standard edition is not so.

Because, even if everyone doesn´t  have EOD, they like to say they spent 100$ or more so their criticisms are reinforced by the bigger amount of money they supposedly spent.

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Majlo
50 minutes ago, opiat3 said:

Because, even if everyone doesn´t  have EOD, they like to say they spent 100$ or more so their criticisms are reinforced by the bigger amount of money they supposedly spent.

If so, they're arguing from a false standpoint, meaning in reality their criticisms mean even less than they would.

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JerryLove
7 hours ago, scrappercb said:

That said doing this would undermine much of what makes Tarkov the game it is.

Only for the player that elected to do it. For everyone else the only effect is that low-skill, high-gear PMCs will be more common (as opposed to now where it tends to be low-skill, low-gear or high-skill, high-gear). 

1 hour ago, Majlo said:

If so, they're arguing from a false standpoint, meaning in reality their criticisms mean even less than they would.

In the short term this is correct. EoD purchasers are no longer sources of new revenue. Non-EoD players still have buy/no-buy decisions, whether it's upgrading to EoD or later DLC purchases.

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