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Realist Body Armour/Bullet Rebalance (Protections only for now)


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Servicer_Skynet

The long and short is that armor is strangely neutered, while helmets have been jacked to incomprehensible levels. Let's... fix that. Leave your thoughts below.

As such, in no particular order:

  • Altyn, Rys-T, Maska, to Class 2 protection.
  • Vulkan to Class 5.
  • Most western helmets: Class 1
  • SSh-68: Class 1
  • Bastion/Uparmor: Class 2/5
  • Djeta/SHPM: Nonballistic (Cold weapons protections only)
  • Tac-kek: Nonballistic, cold weapons only.
    • Most non metal helmets will have ricochet chance reduced significantly.
  • LBT, Hexgrid: Class 5, ceramic.
  • Highcom Trooper: Steel material.
  • Defender 2: Class 4
  • IOTV: Combined Materials, Class 6.
  • PACA: Class 1
  • 6b2: Class 3

Then, we have ammunition. Too many to really work with well, but, here is the overview:

  • At no point in the 7,62x25mm section should penetration exceed 15. Still has decent penetration against pistol caliber armour and helmets though.
  • .45 ACP penetration maximum reduced to 23.
  • 5,7x28mm SS190/4,6x30mm AP SX adjusted to 25, all else adjusted accordingly. Damage also reduced, 5,7x28mm/4,6x30mm sucks at actually killing people
  • 9x21mm functions like a 9x19mm but slightly better. SP12 can challenge Class 3 at 28 penetration.
  • .366 AP reduced to 36 penetration, all others reduced to fit.
  • 5,56 reduced in penetration severely. M995 to 42, M855A1 to 30, 855 to 24, etc.
  • 5,45mm reduced similarly to 5,56.

Some other changes: Steel vests will cause light bleeding to jaws, arms, legs with fragmenting bullets. Also, has +15% to fragment on hit. If the armour protects an area, then it will not be damaged. This simulates fragmentation of bullets on steel plate in real life.

Chestrig does not block armour, armour blocks chestrigs. Why? Because in real life, people do do that sort of thing, with soft vests and plate carriers. Also, there is no reason you cannot fit the plate carrier over the bulletproof vest, it would merely be very heavy, which would in Tarkov be a high ergo/move/turn penalty. Probably a multiplier or something in addition to the stacked multiplier already present. Would also block storage on the bulletproof vest.

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Servicer_Skynet

Dunno if this allowed, but second followon just for some clarification since I can't edit anymore

SS190/AP SX should be 20, not 24

Also, materials should matter significantly more, as steel for instance stands the test of many bullets but folds up like cardboard the minute you load something fast at it, meanwhile ceramic is not too durable but will stand up to almost any sort of rounds you'd throw at it. UHMWPE is light and strong but does not protect from harder cores. And so on.

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KaelTheInvoker

It should be unplayable in terms of balance, but i liked it anyway xd

realism gang xd 

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GeneralBrus

the armor plate zone update will open the door to make bullets 100% realistic when it comes to penetration, however only if they fix limbdmg. Otherwise it will only turn into a even bigger bulletsponge mess

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Overkill_Reaper

Most armor and helmets already  become essentially worthless mid to late wipe. If anything needs changed it’s the availability/ease of access of AP rounds. 

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JerryLove
On 3/27/2021 at 10:49 AM, Servicer_Skynet said:

Also, materials should matter significantly more, as steel for instance stands the test of many bullets but folds up like cardboard the minute you load something fast at it, meanwhile ceramic is not too durable but will stand up to almost any sort of rounds you'd throw at it. UHMWPE is light and strong but does not protect from harder cores. And so on.

That's in place. Durable armor has more HP, so degrades more slowly. More repairable armor repairs better. Etc. 

So steel has a low armor value (folds to something fast), but a lot of HP (very durable) and high reparability (again durable) while ceramic has a high armor value (stand up to almost any sort of round) but a low HP (not too durable) and lower reparability (again not durable). 

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JerryLove
On 3/27/2021 at 8:26 PM, Overkill_Reaper said:

Most armor and helmets already  become essentially worthless mid to late wipe. If anything needs changed it’s the availability/ease of access of AP rounds. 

When the excrement hits to fan, it's not distributed evenly. 

The top-tier players will still be able to run 100% AP, the only people you hurt are the mid-tier players. 

I oppose any rarity system that serves to increase the disadvantage of the most disadvantaged players and does nothing to the most advantaged players. Surely having better play-skills, more powerful/durable avatars, and far better equipment (which they get more cheaply as they have better merchant access) is enough of an advantage. 

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Himmuguegeli
Am 27.3.2021 um 16:15 schrieb KaelTheInvoker:

It should be unplayable in terms of balance, but i liked it anyway xd

realism gang xd 

Realism is actually very playable when it comes to armor balance. Since firearms always been beyond the technology that is meant to shield you from them. Back in WW2 all practical and wearable body armors were easily be punched through by any of the service rifle cartridges in use. Back in Nam the vests only been working on smaller calibers and shrapnel’s but wouldn’t protect you from a single shot of an AK / SKS.  And on current terms there are only Level 4 Plates (on western standards) and those already struggle with some higher caliber rifle rounds and AP rifle rounds usually penetrate like butter. There is also a reason why police all around the world does NOT want civilians to be able to buy AP rounds for obvious reasons.

Don’t get me wrong here, high level vests protect you efficiently from most assault rifle rounds as long as they are not meant to defeat armor. And the game actually gets that entirely wrong since in EFT most Armor will beat a lot of different AP rounds which would easily penetrate IRL but will suck at taking multiple hits from Non-AP. Back in the day when the game was still aiming for a more realistic state, streamers been flaming BSG nonstop to make the game more arcade since it was too hardcore for their taste.

Years ago, when you had the right caliber you been simply penetrating and that lead to a very quick death. Now with the same calibers like 5.45x39 BP you can easily use turtle tactics to meme the poo out of an enemy who has that round loaded. And steel helmets that wouldn’t even shield you from a 9mm will now reflect multiple shots from 7.62x54R. In addition to that AP rounds make very little damage in game, which leads to Scav Bosses surviving multiple headshots and players that are tanking more than 3 shots to the heart. That’s where we are at now. So please don’t call the requested changes realism for the sake of my sanity.  

Spoiler

laugh laughing GIF

 

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Isov_ivan
2 часа назад, Himmuguegeli сказал:

 Back in Nam the vests only been working on smaller calibers and shrapnel’s but wouldn’t protect you from a single shot of an AK / SKS.  

 

Well, not all vests. Helicopter crews already got much heavier rifle-resistant armor. Surely, infantrymen wasn't running around in them, but in gameplay terms that would be a realistic "walking tank loadout".

 

 

2 часа назад, Himmuguegeli сказал:

  And on current terms there are only Level 4 Plates (on western standards) and those already struggle with some higher caliber rifle rounds and AP rifle rounds usually penetrate like butter. There is also a reason why police all around the world does NOT want civilians to be able to buy AP rounds for obvious reasons.

 

 

 

NIJ standard is just a standard, and rather obsolete one. For example, At the time of NIJ 0101.04 introduction, in the mid 70s, relatively low-power handgun rounds such as the .22 and .380 were the most common threats faced by police, so Level I
armor was designed to be as thin and as light as possible while still countering those threats. And The Level III rating is fraught with problems, which have given rise to the vague, unofficial, and ambiguous "Level III+" rating. The primary problem is that although the Level III standard is supposed to describe body armor that is capable of dealing with rifle ball rounds, the 7.62x51mm M80 projectile is an uncommon threat, and, more to the point, it is a threat that doesn't share penetration
mechanics and ballistic characteristics with those threats that are common.
However, German VPAM standard, for example, have two different ratings specifically for 7.62x51mm M993 and Swiss P AP rounds. Vast majority of EFT rounds would struggle to penetrate armor with such ratng.

 

2 часа назад, Himmuguegeli сказал:

And steel helmets that wouldn’t even shield you from a 9mm will now reflect multiple shots from 7.62x54R. 

 

 Well, there is more than one rifle-rated helmet today, so they still would make perfect sense as EFT top-tier equipment.

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Overkill_Reaper
13 hours ago, JerryLove said:

When the excrement hits to fan, it's not distributed evenly. 

The top-tier players will still be able to run 100% AP, the only people you hurt are the mid-tier players. 

I oppose any rarity system that serves to increase the disadvantage of the most disadvantaged players and does nothing to the most advantaged players. Surely having better play-skills, more powerful/durable avatars, and far better equipment (which they get more cheaply as they have better merchant access) is enough of an advantage. 

They could just make AP rounds found in raid only via ammo boxes. Then ban the sale and purchase of them on the flea market. 
AP ammo becomes more rare for everyone in general, while armor/helmets become more useful. 

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JerryLove
18 hours ago, Overkill_Reaper said:

They could just make AP rounds found in raid only via ammo boxes. Then ban the sale and purchase of them on the flea market. 
AP ammo becomes more rare for everyone in general, while armor/helmets become more useful. 

It basically depends on which version of the game you want. 

Armor, high-end armor, is perhaps the most late-game-vs-early-game difference. It's not only rare, but degrades quickly. A wealthy player (say late-game bitcoin) can keep kitting Class 6 armor where a low-end player cannot. 

If you make AP common, you have a counter everyone can use against Class 6. It does make armor less useful PvP, but (and because) It offsets the "unkillable tank" that a thick-bot chad can be. 

If you make AP rare, you make armor more useful both for good and for ill. It means that a heavily armored player on a map may be nigh-unstoppable. 

Pick your poison I suppose. If you want the game to be based on map knowledge and aim, then you want very deadly ammo freely available. If you want the game to become tanks trading blows to see whose armor dies first; then you make AP-style rounds very rare. 

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Overkill_Reaper
10 hours ago, JerryLove said:

It basically depends on which version of the game you want. 

Armor, high-end armor, is perhaps the most late-game-vs-early-game difference. It's not only rare, but degrades quickly. A wealthy player (say late-game bitcoin) can keep kitting Class 6 armor where a low-end player cannot. 

If you make AP common, you have a counter everyone can use against Class 6. It does make armor less useful PvP, but (and because) It offsets the "unkillable tank" that a thick-bot chad can be. 

If you make AP rare, you make armor more useful both for good and for ill. It means that a heavily armored player on a map may be nigh-unstoppable. 

Pick your poison I suppose. If you want the game to be based on map knowledge and aim, then you want very deadly ammo freely available. If you want the game to become tanks trading blows to see whose armor dies first; then you make AP-style rounds very rare. 

I’d prefer fights lasting longer, as getting killed/killing everyone in 4 shots or less makes for boring gunfights.
A lot of the issues you bring up would be lessened with the planned addition of armor hit boxes anyways. Imo rarer AP rounds is the way to go forsure. 

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JerryLove
6 hours ago, Overkill_Reaper said:

I’d prefer fights lasting longer, as getting killed/killing everyone in 4 shots or less makes for boring gunfights.
A lot of the issues you bring up would be lessened with the planned addition of armor hit boxes anyways. Imo rarer AP rounds is the way to go forsure. 

That makes a game that's more about the gear and less about the knowledge / skill. Knowing how to get the flank, or get the angle on the corner, or what-not does little if it gets you only the opening volley in what is to be a long fight. 

It also means people in medeival armor with no headsets (armored head to toe) or the meta simply becomes hitting the unarmored spots. 

I have a number of games like that... I personally like that Tarkov isn't one of them. I like that I have the chance to take down a much better geared player by being better in that moment. 

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Overkill_Reaper
9 hours ago, JerryLove said:

That makes a game that's more about the gear and less about the knowledge / skill. Knowing how to get the flank, or get the angle on the corner, or what-not does little if it gets you only the opening volley in what is to be a long fight. 

It also means people in medeival armor with no headsets (armored head to toe) or the meta simply becomes hitting the unarmored spots. 

I have a number of games like that... I personally like that Tarkov isn't one of them. I like that I have the chance to take down a much better geared player by being better in that moment. 

That also makes the game less fun imo. Being killed by a camper or getting one tapped to some guy getting a lucky headshot while hip firing doesn’t make for fun gameplay. It’s fine that you find it entertaining though, but we’ll just have to agree to disagree. 

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JerryLove
7 hours ago, Overkill_Reaper said:

That also makes the game less fun imo. Being killed by a camper or getting one tapped to some guy getting a lucky headshot while hip firing doesn’t make for fun gameplay. It’s fine that you find it entertaining though, but we’ll just have to agree to disagree. 

I'm willing to agree to disagree, but you offer up a false correlation. 

You'll still get one-tapped by some guy getting lucky because you don't have armor everywhere. That is, among other things, realistic. 

And you my find it fun to have zero chance of winning when the other player has better gear than you can afford, but I don't. You may find it fun when your knowledge of the map, and the work you put in it, is basically irrelevant. You may find it fun when winning when outnumbers is impossible because battles are simply wars of attrition. That doesn't make for fun game play for me. It's fine if it does for you. We'll just have to agree to disagree. 

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Overkill_Reaper
53 minutes ago, JerryLove said:

I'm willing to agree to disagree, but you offer up a false correlation. 

You'll still get one-tapped by some guy getting lucky because you don't have armor everywhere. That is, among other things, realistic. 

And you my find it fun to have zero chance of winning when the other player has better gear than you can afford, but I don't. You may find it fun when your knowledge of the map, and the work you put in it, is basically irrelevant. You may find it fun when winning when outnumbers is impossible because battles are simply wars of attrition. That doesn't make for fun game play for me. It's fine if it does for you. We'll just have to agree to disagree. 

I’ve killed tons of players that have way better gear than me, with crap scav ammo to boot. It’s all about shot placement, positioning, and movement. No offense, but just because you can’t do something doesn’t mean someone else can’t. 

To my main point. A fast ttk not only requires less aiming skill for obvious reasons, it also renders 90 something odd percent of all armor/helmets useless by mid to late wipe. Not to mention it further incentivizes campers, which in turn increases the odds of being one tapped by a guy you never seen. If dying in 4 hits to a guy hiding around the corner without a chance to even react is your idea of fun, well then, more power to you. 

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JerryLove
2 hours ago, Overkill_Reaper said:

I’ve killed tons of players that have way better gear than me, with crap scav ammo to boot. It’s all about shot placement, positioning, and movement. No offense, but just because you can’t do something doesn’t mean someone else can’t. 

Sure... but your complaint is that you don't want to be able to do that. 

"I’d prefer fights lasting longer, as getting killed/killing everyone in 4 shots or less makes for boring gunfights."

You've killed better equipped players because ammo > armor.. because shot placement > armor. That's why fights don't last longer. 

You also said "Being killed by a camper or getting one tapped to some guy getting a lucky headshot while hip firing doesn’t make for fun gameplay. "

That's you being killed by a guy with better "shot placement, positioning, and movement."

The difference in our stated positions is I *don't* want to change that. 

Quote

To my main point. A fast ttk not only requires less aiming skill for obvious reasons, it also renders 90 something odd percent of all armor/helmets useless by mid to late wipe. Not to mention it further incentivizes campers, which in turn increases the odds of being one tapped by a guy you never seen. If dying in 4 hits to a guy hiding around the corner without a chance to even react is your idea of fun, well then, more power to you. 

If you are in favor of a fight being about "shot placement, positioning, and movement." then you are in favor armor being of little use and fights often lasting 4 shots or less, including a camper one-tapping or a lucky head shot

If you are not in favor of those things... if you want those things to be impossible; then you are advocating a game where it's a war of attrition (who can chew through the armor first, a process that takes time and does not rely on shot aim much); which means *not* having a game that's decided by " shot placement, positioning, and movement."

In short, your positions, as best I can interpret them, are self contrary at the moment. 

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Overkill_Reaper
2 hours ago, JerryLove said:

Sure... but your complaint is that you don't want to be able to do that. 

"I’d prefer fights lasting longer, as getting killed/killing everyone in 4 shots or less makes for boring gunfights."

You've killed better equipped players because ammo > armor.. because shot placement > armor. That's why fights don't last longer. 

You also said "Being killed by a camper or getting one tapped to some guy getting a lucky headshot while hip firing doesn’t make for fun gameplay. "

That's you being killed by a guy with better "shot placement, positioning, and movement."

The difference in our stated positions is I *don't* want to change that. 

If you are in favor of a fight being about "shot placement, positioning, and movement." then you are in favor armor being of little use and fights often lasting 4 shots or less, including a camper one-tapping or a lucky head shot

If you are not in favor of those things... if you want those things to be impossible; then you are advocating a game where it's a war of attrition (who can chew through the armor first, a process that takes time and does not rely on shot aim much); which means *not* having a game that's decided by " shot placement, positioning, and movement."

In short, your positions, as best I can interpret them, are self contrary at the moment. 

I’m not going to write a novel to try and convince you bud. Imo Fast ttk=lower aim skill, most armor/helmets become essentially useless, campers dream, & boring quick engagements. If you don’t think so that’s fine. 

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Caster89Actual
On 3/27/2021 at 7:18 AM, Servicer_Skynet said:

The long and short is that armor is strangely neutered, while helmets have been jacked to incomprehensible levels. Let's... fix that. Leave your thoughts below.

As such, in no particular order:

  • Altyn, Rys-T, Maska, to Class 2 protection.
  • Vulkan to Class 5.
  • Most western helmets: Class 1
  • SSh-68: Class 1
  • Bastion/Uparmor: Class 2/5
  • Djeta/SHPM: Nonballistic (Cold weapons protections only)
  • Tac-kek: Nonballistic, cold weapons only.
    • Most non metal helmets will have ricochet chance reduced significantly.
  • LBT, Hexgrid: Class 5, ceramic.
  • Highcom Trooper: Steel material.
  • Defender 2: Class 4
  • IOTV: Combined Materials, Class 6.
  • PACA: Class 1
  • 6b2: Class 3

Then, we have ammunition. Too many to really work with well, but, here is the overview:

  • At no point in the 7,62x25mm section should penetration exceed 15. Still has decent penetration against pistol caliber armour and helmets though.
  • .45 ACP penetration maximum reduced to 23.
  • 5,7x28mm SS190/4,6x30mm AP SX adjusted to 25, all else adjusted accordingly. Damage also reduced, 5,7x28mm/4,6x30mm sucks at actually killing people
  • 9x21mm functions like a 9x19mm but slightly better. SP12 can challenge Class 3 at 28 penetration.
  • .366 AP reduced to 36 penetration, all others reduced to fit.
  • 5,56 reduced in penetration severely. M995 to 42, M855A1 to 30, 855 to 24, etc.
  • 5,45mm reduced similarly to 5,56.

Some other changes: Steel vests will cause light bleeding to jaws, arms, legs with fragmenting bullets. Also, has +15% to fragment on hit. If the armour protects an area, then it will not be damaged. This simulates fragmentation of bullets on steel plate in real life.

Chestrig does not block armour, armour blocks chestrigs. Why? Because in real life, people do do that sort of thing, with soft vests and plate carriers. Also, there is no reason you cannot fit the plate carrier over the bulletproof vest, it would merely be very heavy, which would in Tarkov be a high ergo/move/turn penalty. Probably a multiplier or something in addition to the stacked multiplier already present. Would also block storage on the bulletproof vest.

As far as realism goes the only thing i want to see is trauma pads & spaling.

Take the 6094a slick armors for instance. If you worse just that in real life you would likley die from spall hitting you.

Then for the other end of that argument would be the  Gen4 FP or other armor setup with that neck protector at the very least such as the Korund VM.

i think spall should have a really decent chance to cause multiple heavy&light bleeds if you start taking shots and your slick stops it.

 

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Servicer_Skynet
On 3/27/2021 at 7:26 PM, Overkill_Reaper said:

Most armor and helmets already  become essentially worthless mid to late wipe. If anything needs changed it’s the availability/ease of access of AP rounds. 

Maybe.

With this AP ammo wouldn't need to be as potent, but at the same time we would be somewhat neutering a lot of high pen options. Also, a lot of stuff isn't exactly uncommon irl. GOST 3 and to a bit of an extent even 4 is kinda the civil service level stuff. I feel like you should however, be allowed to find high end stuff even if you're low end.

I mean, seriously, it's not going to be common that someone leaves like, an OVR-3SH around, but at the same time, when  you find it...

yo.png.35cbb06ea2cf10de6325945fdb4d0437.png

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Servicer_Skynet
On 3/28/2021 at 9:02 PM, JerryLove said:

That's in place. Durable armor has more HP, so degrades more slowly. More repairable armor repairs better. Etc. 

So steel has a low armor value (folds to something fast), but a lot of HP (very durable) and high reparability (again durable) while ceramic has a high armor value (stand up to almost any sort of round) but a low HP (not too durable) and lower reparability (again not durable). 

Yesn't.

The protection values are just not granular enough to provide good protection simulation. You cannot abstract this sort of thing with the simplistic system in place now. Steel armour will fold the cards to M193 but hold the line against M80 and M855. Usually. Poly plates can stop 193 and 80, but folds to 855. Ceramic can do all of them but is more fragile.

Tarkov assumes all materials work the same, and inevitably gives deal armour like the LBT or Hexagrid a high rating and tough materials.

On 3/30/2021 at 5:20 AM, JerryLove said:

It basically depends on which version of the game you want. 

Armor, high-end armor, is perhaps the most late-game-vs-early-game difference. It's not only rare, but degrades quickly. A wealthy player (say late-game bitcoin) can keep kitting Class 6 armor where a low-end player cannot. 

If you make AP common, you have a counter everyone can use against Class 6. It does make armor less useful PvP, but (and because) It offsets the "unkillable tank" that a thick-bot chad can be. 

If you make AP rare, you make armor more useful both for good and for ill. It means that a heavily armored player on a map may be nigh-unstoppable. 

Pick your poison I suppose. If you want the game to be based on map knowledge and aim, then you want very deadly ammo freely available. If you want the game to become tanks trading blows to see whose armor dies first; then you make AP-style rounds very rare. 

This is personally a thing I'm iffy about. Because of the setup of the armour, you are either protected or not, and that means spritzing a short burst of autofire at some guy in the distance won't carry the possibility of random critting him through an armour because it hit an uncovered spot.

15 hours ago, Caster89Actual said:

As far as realism goes the only thing i want to see is trauma pads & spaling.

Take the 6094a slick armors for instance. If you worse just that in real life you would likley die from spall hitting you.

Then for the other end of that argument would be the  Gen4 FP or other armor setup with that neck protector at the very least such as the Korund VM.

i think spall should have a really decent chance to cause multiple heavy&light bleeds if you start taking shots and your slick stops it.

 

Fragmentation is not going to be a thing for the most part at the high end. Only steel armour will fragment, and even then, it can be mitigated to some extent. Some.

Russia makes significant use of steel armour and their kits are usually designed around it, though it is being phased out.

 

On 3/31/2021 at 7:20 PM, JerryLove said:

If you are in favor of a fight being about "shot placement, positioning, and movement." then you are in favor armor being of little use and fights often lasting 4 shots or less, including a camper one-tapping or a lucky head shot

If you are not in favor of those things... if you want those things to be impossible; then you are advocating a game where it's a war of attrition (who can chew through the armor first, a process that takes time and does not rely on shot aim much); which means *not* having a game that's decided by " shot placement, positioning, and movement."

In short, your positions, as best I can interpret them, are self contrary at the moment. 

23 hours ago, Overkill_Reaper said:

I’m not going to write a novel to try and convince you bud. Imo Fast ttk=lower aim skill, most armor/helmets become essentially useless, campers dream, & boring quick engagements. If you don’t think so that’s fine. 

....personal opinion time.

Firefights should generally be punishing yes, but also not just be Call of Duty spray a man with a few slugs and they die. If we want to be realistic, then honestly taking multiple bullets to go down, all told, isn't inordinately untrue. Heck, given that our operators are assumed to ignore common sense, well...

 

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Caster89Actual
52 minutes ago, Servicer_Skynet said:

Yesn't.

The protection values are just not granular enough to provide good protection simulation. You cannot abstract this sort of thing with the simplistic system in place now. Steel armour will fold the cards to M193 but hold the line against M80 and M855. Usually. Poly plates can stop 193 and 80, but folds to 855. Ceramic can do all of them but is more fragile.

Tarkov assumes all materials work the same, and inevitably gives deal armour like the LBT or Hexagrid a high rating and tough materials.

This is personally a thing I'm iffy about. Because of the setup of the armour, you are either protected or not, and that means spritzing a short burst of autofire at some guy in the distance won't carry the possibility of random critting him through an armour because it hit an uncovered spot.

Fragmentation is not going to be a thing for the most part at the high end. Only steel armour will fragment, and even then, it can be mitigated to some extent. Some.

Russia makes significant use of steel armour and their kits are usually designed around it, though it is being phased out.

 

....personal opinion time.

Firefights should generally be punishing yes, but also not just be Call of Duty spray a man with a few slugs and they die. If we want to be realistic, then honestly taking multiple bullets to go down, all told, isn't inordinately untrue. Heck, given that our operators are assumed to ignore common sense, well...

 

Are you a fan of oxide?

he recently did a video on the Redut I think it was, apparently first person shooters is not the only thing Russians are sub par at making.

poo had dangerous amounts of spall coming off of it.

 

also are you referring to real life or tarkov fragments? Because steel plates are t the only material that causes spall. . . .

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Servicer_Skynet
On 4/2/2021 at 1:24 AM, Caster89Actual said:

Are you a fan of oxide?

he recently did a video on the Redut I think it was, apparently first person shooters is not the only thing Russians are sub par at making.

poo had dangerous amounts of spall coming off of it.

 

also are you referring to real life or tarkov fragments? Because steel plates are t the only material that causes spall. . . .

Eh. Oxide is neat, he confirmed a few suspicions I and a few friends had.

Steel armour causes fragmentation in noticeable amounts, poly and ceramic plate has nothing and a bit of dust at most  respectively.

 

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