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Is armour too weak, both from a realism perspective and a good/fun game perspective?


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Prolapsed

I look at all the level 3/4/5 armour in the game don't see the benefit of it, guns are fast and accurate while top ammunition is easy to come by so if it's shot the bullets are going to go straight through it, or stop only one or two shots before penetrating.

But there's a lot of videos on the internet that show armour stopping rounds they don't in game, as well as showing much higher durability. See the videos below showing what some plates are capable of, such as the 6B45 stopping M995 and multiple 855A1's.

Even if mid level armour only had a % chance of stopping higher level rounds it'd make the game more entertaining because the current games TTK seems extremely fast, combined the TTK, questionable recoil mechanics & server latency makes much of the equipment in the game pointless because you are dead before you can react, which is a shame.

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GeneralBrus

its too weak and too strong from a realism perspective,

bunch of bullets are way too strong and others are way too weak.

Armor plate update is coming, so guess well have to wait and see how BSG will change things...

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Prolapsed

I hope so, I love the realism aspect of EFT, it is what got me interested in Tarkov in the first place, but until they do something to stop people mag dumping in the general direction of your face while strafing around like a cartoon character until one bullet hits Head-Eyes it'd be nice to survive some more rounds to armour.

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chaosrecords
On 4/7/2021 at 11:51 AM, GeneralBrus said:

its too weak and too strong from a realism perspective,

bunch of bullets are way too strong and others are way too weak.

Armor plate update is coming, so guess well have to wait and see how BSG will change things...

This for sure.  I also think plate carriers need to be as versatile as they are in real life.  Certain plate carriers like the IOTV have side plates, soft armor panels that cover more of the body + AR500 or Ceramic plate slots. Carriers have different plate size accommodations, and also the ability to add IIIa trauma panels behind any hard plates.  Some carriers only allow hard plates but you could also put the trauma panels behind they just don't cover as much of the body, only behind the plate.  That dynamic, combined with the revamping of the penetration system (a lot of the lower tier rounds would not be absorbed as completely and in such great numbers, and some of the higher tier armor would take a lot more hits from mid to higher tier rounds).  Definitely getting a little sub atomic, so to speak, with damaging armor would make it more realistic.    Physical movement from being hit by a bullet would also add to the realism, like being pushed back, falling, stumbling, spinning, turning, etc.   I know this is a lot to ask, the plate mechanics would need to replace the entire current armor level system, and a knew formula would need to be created for armor values, as well as making the new models and items, textures, and ammo \ projectile damage system.   A lot to ask, but it would be beautiful.

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Servicer_Skynet

Here's my take:

We can't go about this conventionally. The whole plate carrier thing?

Throw that, the FRICK, out.

Plate Carriers are made for maximum speed and the minimum of survivability. It is there to prevent the vital organs from being struck and that is all. It assumes a logistical backbone that you do not have the luxury of. It assumes there is a rescuing BLUFOR operator, and then a medevac to a trauma team who will keep you alive with state of the art surgical equipment.

In Tarkov, you are most likely it. You are every bit of support you will ever get. You have to be able to take several hits and get out with a minimum of damage. You need to avoid as many firefights as possible, and stick to ambushes where you have the best chances.

You aren't minimizing survivability for speed and stamina, you're trying to survive. You don't have a hospital, you have a trauma kit.

I honestly think that BSG should let us tinker with armour configuration as we like. Maybe you're a speed>protection guy. Maybe you're someone who prefers a mix of both. Maybe you want to armour up as much as possible.

 

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Isov_ivan
3 часа назад, Servicer_Skynet сказал:

 

In Tarkov, you are most likely it. You are every bit of support you will ever get. You have to be able to take several hits and get out with a minimum of damage.

 

That actually calls for some heavy PLATES, and probably even hard limb armor. Much to buckshoteers chagrin.

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GeneralBrus
15 hours ago, Servicer_Skynet said:

Here's my take:

We can't go about this conventionally. The whole plate carrier thing?

Throw that, the FRICK, out.

Plate Carriers are made for maximum speed and the minimum of survivability. It is there to prevent the vital organs from being struck and that is all. It assumes a logistical backbone that you do not have the luxury of. It assumes there is a rescuing BLUFOR operator, and then a medevac to a trauma team who will keep you alive with state of the art surgical equipment.

In Tarkov, you are most likely it. You are every bit of support you will ever get. You have to be able to take several hits and get out with a minimum of damage. You need to avoid as many firefights as possible, and stick to ambushes where you have the best chances.

You aren't minimizing survivability for speed and stamina, you're trying to survive. You don't have a hospital, you have a trauma kit.

I honestly think that BSG should let us tinker with armour configuration as we like. Maybe you're a speed>protection guy. Maybe you're someone who prefers a mix of both. Maybe you want to armour up as much as possible.

 

so basically you are saying: "Lets not add plate carriers, cuz thats what soldiers are using, we are however on our own and without a army to fix us up when we get shot"

Okay fair enough, however tell me, what are the alternatives? 

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Servicer_Skynet
11 hours ago, GeneralBrus said:

so basically you are saying: "Lets not add plate carriers, cuz thats what soldiers are using, we are however on our own and without a army to fix us up when we get shot"

Okay fair enough, however tell me, what are the alternatives? 

You misunderstand:

I propose that in addition to conventional plate carriers, we look further into adding higher coverage than usual solutions. Having two plates is fine, but honestly given the situation its just more useful to have higher coverage over mobility.

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GeneralBrus
8 hours ago, Servicer_Skynet said:

You misunderstand:

I propose that in addition to conventional plate carriers, we look further into adding higher coverage than usual solutions. Having two plates is fine, but honestly given the situation its just more useful to have higher coverage over mobility.

well i guess that could be true in some situations, like counter terrorist police units storming buildings, however in the military something like that would be very difficult to use effectively. Maneuver and mobility is often key to success.

Now tarkov is mostly cqc, but thats only because of the "raid" mapdesign, there are always choke points and stuff...

So if the tarkov warzone would be a real thing, "I" would guess that mobility had an even bigger impact on success, walking for hours just to get from a loot area to your hideout, doing that with heavy armor would be not practical.

Now all of that aside, Tarkov is not an open world survival game, so heavy armor could be made very effective "mobility wise" without breaking too much of its immersion. Well... something like " heavy gear PMC's would arrive 20 minutes later into the raid than just pistol runners" sounds really bad and i guess nobody would want that to be a thing, still that would "realistically" be the real advantage of travelling "light".

Now keep in mind when i say "mobility wise" im "only" talking about the ability to get faster from A to B, im however NOT talking about strafing, bhopping and running speed, these things are a topic on its own.

So all of that means: the only benefit "light gear" gives you is: 

-its cheaper

-and it lets you be the first to get to the good lootspots

 

so there is no tactical reason to not go full juggernaut which feels like a missed opportunity to me...

simply buffing armor would just give you more options to spend more money, and to have even more god mode against new players. I mean there needs to be some downside to it right? 

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RACWAR
On 4/7/2021 at 5:40 PM, Prolapsed said:

But there's a lot of videos on the internet that show armour stopping rounds they don't in game, as well as showing much higher durability. See the videos below showing what some plates are capable of, such as the 6B45 stopping M995 and multiple 855A1's.

But that's literally what they do in the game as well. . .

1420569821_Screenshot2021-04-16180353.thumb.png.e81276d5ec05c229d5f3d2014bd8dfe9.png

721373548_Screenshot2021-04-16180604.thumb.png.7c47a085052670fb765dbbb1b4516b20.png

I mean, the level 6A in the video stopped 4 M855A1, which is EXACTLY how the game has it as well.

And M995 can be stopped between 1-3 times by level 6A, which is again, EXACTLY how it is in the game.

So idk what you're talkin about.

When it comes to the penetration values, the armor in the game is just right. The problem however is that the hitboxes aren't at all "just right", so in that sense, bodyarmor in the game is actually massively overpowered, not underpowered.

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Servicer_Skynet
On 4/16/2021 at 10:54 AM, GeneralBrus said:

So if the tarkov warzone would be a real thing, "I" would guess that mobility had an even bigger impact on success, walking for hours just to get from a loot area to your hideout, doing that with heavy armor would be not practical.

There's the rub;

You have no time limit other than supplies and risk. Yes, the longer you're outside, the more supplies you burn and the more risk of death. But, you can take your time, rest, and, well, 's not like you're not going to do that anyway.

image.png.bb3e9a7ff55f5aecdda94b17eee5cba2.png

Any operation may well take a week of travel time or more.

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