Jump to content

The truth about cheating - what can we do?


Recommended Posts

jpwozn

I would like to address in particular those who are completely clueless, refuse to face reality, or - consciously or unconsciously - spread disinformation. Some of the comments on this forum, Reddit and other sites really make me angry and sad at the same time. I do not want to shed tears here, I am interested in solutions.

I have spent approximately 1100 hours with EFT. I had virtually infinite money, my K/D ratio was always around ~7:1. I loved this game. I finally quit in February. I actually always had the wish to return one day. But by now, I am almost certain that there will never, just never be any improvement ...

Last fall, more or less by accident, I came into contact with people who were cheating in EFT and were intensely involved with this subject. I could or did not want to admit it at first, but gradually realized that it was not just a vague suspicion or an isolated problem. Without going into details, I would like to emphasize that I have seen with my own eyes how the system works, outside and inside the game. Cheating is virtually a fundamental part of the game. I almost doubt that there is a raid without at least one cheater. Cheaters now also stream without hiding what they are doing.

I will not list here what options cheaters have and where they can get them. There is hardly a game on this planet where it is so easy to get information. You can find advertisements for EFT cheats everywhere. The choices are endless, like sand on the beach. Sometimes, you are even directly approached and invited to private groups. A paradise for cheaters.

But the worst is: cheaters are either not recognized at all, nothing happens when they are reported - I tested this myself, I never received an answer from the official side - or hardware bans are simply bypassed. If problems do occur, a new key is bought - these are available on various sites at discounted prices. What a nightmare! Is there a lack of will (the money bags are already bulging), or have they (namely BattleEye) resigned due to a lack of technical possibilities?

I do not want to speculate about why people cheat. For me personally, these people are just scum. I am more interested in the measures that are being taken to deal with the problem. And there seem to be big difficulties in general at the moment, not only related to EFT. It is like another pandemic, but in games.

We cannot do anything on our own. But united, all honest players together, we have power. Games like EFT, but also others, should no longer be bought and played as long as there are no appropriate measures to dry up the swamp. I want to finally see comprehensive technical solutions, not just a drop in the bucket or some empty promises. Cheaters must finally suffer serious consequences. At the moment, it is all about making the big bucks. The customer does not matter. Am I asking too much? No, certainly not. And finally stop talking down the problem, how blind can someone be not to see what is going on?

Finally, I would like to point out that I have never cheated.

  • Like 3
  • Sad 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
jpwozn

PS:

Zitat

nothing happens when they are reported - I tested this myself, I never received an answer from the official side

Precisely: these were players that I knew for sure were cheating, I watched them doing it. They were not worried about being banned.

Link to post
Share on other sites
traumacode
1 hour ago, jpwozn said:

I do not want to speculate about why people cheat.

I think it's important to focus on this aspect.  To know the motives behind cheating players is the only way to do something about it ultimately.  I wrote the below in another thread, I'm including it below as it's relevant to your discussion points.

 

I agree with you that the player base (when I mean player base I don't mean the streamers that sit at the 1% of the community, but rather the majority of the players) needs to come together to address this issue.  The bottom line is that if this game continues to have significant amounts of cheaters (add whatever % you want), it will ultimately fail as players will not stick with this game long term nor will they support BSG's next project.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

In order to limit cheating in this game, several things need to change.  First thing to realize is why people cheat.  I can only think of 2 reasons:

1) You're bad at the game/want to grief other players/enter personal reason here and have real life money to spare on cheats.

 

2) You are trying to make real money through RMT via killing players and selling in-raid items or using a service to run legit players through a map for a RM fee.

 

Potential solutions to CURB the above (not eliminate):

1) Get rid of the flea market.  This is an obvious choice.   if you have to play the game and extract items in order to use them and they become non-tradable to anyone except the NPC traders at the end of the raid, this limits incentive to use cheats to run raids and kill players for that purpose.  It also eliminates the type of cheats that locate high priority items and transfer them to their bag remotely.  In this scenario, you can't sell them to anyone other than traders.  BSG has started to mess around with this idea and eliminated BTC sales on the flea for example, but it's not enough.

 

2) Pit cheating players against other cheating players without the knowledge of those players.  This will make it so that people are spending real money for cheats with the intention of grieving other players or "getting better" at the game when in reality they are only paying real money to fight against other cheaters and non-playable scavs.  Eventually, it will lose it's allure.

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
DeeCoercitas

The Division had a very efficient way to detect ppl with ESP or radar like cheats, actually some kind of AI was able to follow player's movements and of course, not taking care at all of loot or corners when there was nobody and all of a sudden rushing a bag for huge loot or following a player behind a wall was obviously a sign that this player knew something was here and not elsewhere...if this occurred too often -> go away kid !

 

Of course, The Division is far from being as complex as EFT is but the overall idea would be the same.

 

You can of course do this same kind of check with shots, when someone is placing HS all the time in less than 1/10th of a second several times, there is no mystery, nobody can be THAT quick THAT often, sorry.

Same thing with "incredible lag / desync" that provokes headshots several times a game, here neither there is no shuffle : the lag switch bot is maybe the worst after all because it seems legit but it is purely exploiting net code...

 

There are ways to detect and ban cheaters, this kind of AI is not complicated at all to code and it wouldn't require much CPU time to implement it in Tarkov...the most difficult part is to WANT to actually do something.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Zoanthid

Its going to take a fundamental redesign of how games are made to stop people from injecting code and that's gonna take an industry wide change. Streaming services like google Stadia have the most promise because none of the game files can be accessed from your pc but are slow to catch on for various reasons. So until we see major change in the industry as a whole were likely to never escape cheating. This game in particular is always going to have a major cheating problem by the nature of its design. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Niewiarygodny
5 hours ago, jpwozn said:

But the worst is: cheaters are either not recognized at all, nothing happens when they are reported

Here i can say something.
THe thing is that in Tarkov there are so many things which can affect specific situacion so it's impossible to be 100% sure that u have been killed by cheater or not.
- Desync
- Lag
- Diffrent server issue
- Luck
- Lack knowledge about game
And many more things can happen during 1 situacion.

But now look at diffrent side, as u said

5 hours ago, jpwozn said:

I would like to address in particular those who are completely clueless, refuse to face reality, or - consciously or unconsciously - spread disinformation

ANd that happen in the second way.
I do spread information that there are less cheaters than ppl think and my information is based on this forum "Offical report mega thread" where on 15 video proofs there was maybe 1 with 100% cheater, all other was missing tons of information to be sure.

Example of such video, guy is running from enemy in the night with freaking Killa Helmet, at some point he got killed by HS and says that it was 100% cheater...
Other situacion, someone is sneaking with Altyn on interchange, which means HE heared someone, so if he heared someone in Altyn then most likely second person also heared him, he peek corner and someone was waiting for him, conclusion? CHEATER! Well... Not really.

Whats more, i am often playing with my friend who is streaming EFT, he has those 100 avg viewers, and when he had TTV in his Tarkov name, he normally was called a "cheater" by person/ppl he just killed like once per 1-2 days.
THose ppl claimed that "How he could know, they didn't make a single noise!" where in fact they did, but they never spent those 20 seconds on checking clip...

How many times i have been called a cheater (Ppl added me after game), just because i cleared 5 man squad (sometimes with skill, sometimes with luck), making 180 rotation to kill someone with Mosin etc...

Are there cheater in Tarkov? FOr sure. But there are less cheaters than ppl actually encounter.
I am not calling any1 a cheater unless it's really fishy.
In this wipe i had maybe 2 such situacions.

 

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Saint_Ajora

I've said this before and I'll say it again. EFT needs a review system like CS:GO has Overwatch. If you disagree with this you are a cheater and are afraid you will be caught.

  • Like 2
  • Confused 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Caster89Actual
10 minutes ago, Saint_Ajora said:

I've said this before and I'll say it again. EFT needs a review system like CS:GO has Overwatch. If you disagree with this you are a cheater and are afraid you will be caught.

Pretty much this right here.

or as stated above instead of outright banning the accounts make it so they can only match make with other cheaters (respawn entertainment actually did this with TF1 to great success)

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
PardTheTroll
vor 25 Minuten schrieb Saint_Ajora:

If you disagree with this you are a cheater and are afraid you will be caught.

So, by that logic I also must be the next Hitler. Because you know, I like dogs. Hitler also liked dogs. Thank you for opening my eyes!

  • Sad 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Saint_Ajora
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, PardTheTroll said:

So, by that logic I also must be the next Hitler. Because you know, I like dogs. Hitler also liked dogs. Thank you for opening my eyes!

There's always a few of you. And that's called a "False Dichotomy" argument. Then there is Goodwin's Law which didn't take long at all. Get bent cheater Have a good day you fine gentleman and just TRY to come up with an actual argument of why that would be a bad thing...oh wait you can't.

Edited by Saint_Ajora
typo
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Helmwart

Thank you for your detailed post. I also have the feeling that cheating is a fundamental part of the game. As a newbie, it is difficult for me to detect a cheater. Am i just bad or is this just a good player.

The lack of information - no kill cam , no replay, no information about the killer except the name, no feedback when i report a cheater, helps cheaters hide and establish themselves.

To better assess whether someone is a cheater, I read up on what cheats can do. When I saw the professional sales websites for cheats and the video for various hacks, I was speechless. It's downright scary what advantages cheaters can all have.

After each death I have to wrestle with the decision whether to report the killer.  Is it a cheater or am I just annoyed by the death, does a report bring anything at all? This is quite frustrating.

Link to post
Share on other sites
PardTheTroll
vor 37 Minuten schrieb Saint_Ajora:

There's always a few of you. And that's called a "False Dichotomy" argument. Then there is Goodwin's Law which didn't take long at all. Get bent cheater Have a good day you fine gentleman and just TRY to come up with an actual argument of why that would be a bad thing...oh wait you can't.

Why should I strain myself to argue with you, if your whole attitude is already denying every conversation to begin with? See below ...

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Saint_Ajora:

If you disagree with this you are a cheater and are afraid you will be caught.

So yeah, there is that. I will just advice you to inform yourself more about cheats and the ways to work against this plague. Because you seem to be lacking in that department ... 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Spectator6

Unfortunately, even Overwatch is not impervious to manipulation

Not to mention that building out and implementing a system like this would likely require an astronomical amount of time+money to get off the ground for EFT.

And even if BSG was to somehow pull it off, maybe it's just me, but I have absolutely ZERO desire to watch through a bunch of random clips in an attempt to divine whether or not the person appeared to be cheating.

How is EFT made into a better game by having cheaters? It's not. Obviously.

Everyone and their dog is on the same page there's no reason to hurl insults at one another about it.

The fact of the matter is it's a very complex issue without any easy answers.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Czecher

U realy have no clue here, its about money - soft bann = cheaters will return with new game copy( bought with stolen card) but eft is making a lot of money on cheaters so why would they make any permament IP like banns...

Link to post
Share on other sites
2470815

im sick and tired of getting head eyes through multiple walls and get wallhacked constantly.

either you in BSG have no clue what is going on or you just have absolutely no understanding of how to prevent this crap.

last week of april until now are an absolute catastrophy in therms of cheaters - tired of it.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Niewiarygodny
4 hours ago, Saint_Ajora said:

I've said this before and I'll say it again. EFT needs a review system like CS:GO has Overwatch. If you disagree with this you are a cheater and are afraid you will be caught.

THen sory, i am a cheater.
As i stated above there are too many factors in EFT to be 100% sure if someone was cheating.

I wouldn't like to place my account into hands of ppl who can't see a diffrence between:
- Possible lucky shot
- Lag
- Desync
- Other server issue
- etc.

Overwatch aint perfect either. Even ppl who play Tarkov all the time often missjudge players by calling them cheaters.
How many times u can see on YT video that streamer called other streamer "a cheater", then correcting himself "oh it's him, it's not a cheater then".

Sadly, there is no perfect solution.

  • Sad 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Caster89Actual
4 hours ago, PardTheTroll said:

Why should I strain myself to argue with you, if your whole attitude is already denying every conversation to begin with? See below ...

So yeah, there is that. I will just advice you to inform yourself more about cheats and the ways to work against this plague. Because you seem to be lacking in that department ... 

because you are wrong?

You must have really good grip to be grasping at straws that small.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Funkoff

End of match time replay system would fix everything. they mentioned this replay system on trailers for the game. so where is it? or was it lie?  A simply system to actually see if you got killed by a cheater or not. Not saying its easy system to make for the game but they did say they have worked on such a system in the past. so where is it?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Saint_Ajora
22 hours ago, Spectator6 said:

Unfortunately, even Overwatch is not impervious to manipulation

Not to mention that building out and implementing a system like this would likely require an astronomical amount of time+money to get off the ground for EFT.

And even if BSG was to somehow pull it off, maybe it's just me, but I have absolutely ZERO desire to watch through a bunch of random clips in an attempt to divine whether or not the person appeared to be cheating.

How is EFT made into a better game by having cheaters? It's not. Obviously.

Everyone and their dog is on the same page there's no reason to hurl insults at one another about it.

The fact of the matter is it's a very complex issue without any easy answers.

Never said it was perfect and I never said you specifically have to participate in it. Not everyone is like you and we should be seeking every possible avenue to stop as many cheaters as possible.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Saint_Ajora

Anyone disagreeing with me also doesn't understand how Overwatch works. Its a FILTERING program not a final decision.

Here's what you think will happen ::

  1. Guy gets killed because ObViOUs ChEaTeR.
  2. They report the suspected cheater.
  3. Reviewer blindly hits confirmed.
  4. guy who wasn't cheating gets banned.

Here's what would ACTUALLY happen ::

  1. Guy gets killed because ObViOUs ChEaTeR
  2. They report suspected cheater
  3. Reviewer watches the raid FROM WHAT THE SERVER SAW, not from client side clips.
    • HUD includes useful information such as ping, directional facing, speed, etc.
  4. IF enough evidence is there to reasonably suspect the person of cheating they apply all according cheating methods used to an easy to fill out form.
  5. That form is then submitted to someone at BSG (either on pay roll or extremely trusted members of the community BSG hand selected.)
  6. They then review it again and action is either taken or not depending on what that person sees.

 

So I say AGAIN; if you don't like this idea you are a cheater and are afraid you'd get caught.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Spectator6
8 minutes ago, Saint_Ajora said:

Anyone disagreeing with me also doesn't understand how Overwatch works. Its a FILTERING program not a final decision.

Here's what you think will happen ::

  1. Guy gets killed because ObViOUs ChEaTeR.
  2. They report the suspected cheater.
  3. Reviewer blindly hits confirmed.
  4. guy who wasn't cheating gets banned.

Here's what would ACTUALLY happen ::

  1. Guy gets killed because ObViOUs ChEaTeR
  2. They report suspected cheater
  3. Reviewer watches the raid FROM WHAT THE SERVER SAW, not from client side clips.
    • HUD includes useful information such as ping, directional facing, speed, etc.
  4. IF enough evidence is there to reasonably suspect the person of cheating they apply all according cheating methods used to an easy to fill out form.
  5. That form is then submitted to someone at BSG (either on pay roll or extremely trusted members of the community BSG hand selected.)
  6. They then review it again and action is either taken or not depending on what that person sees.

 

So I say AGAIN; if you don't like this idea you are a cheater and are afraid you'd get caught.

What's the incentive for players to review clips? Do they get something out of it? Are they rewarded in some way? Or is it purely one of those "for the good of the community" thing where everyone contributes for free?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Niewiarygodny
4 hours ago, Saint_Ajora said:

Never said it was perfect and I never said you specifically have to participate in it. Not everyone is like you and we should be seeking every possible avenue to stop as many cheaters as possible.

I mean, everything has pros and cons.

I am personally kinda fun of ability to re-watch raid after it got finished, so we could check who was on such raid, their line of sight, if they want solo or not, literally everything OFC once raid is finished so no sharing information of "where x person was".
So something as extended Death Cam after raid.

But on the other hand it players wouldn't have any "secret" angles or positions since everyne could just see that on such video.

I think that such thing would minimalize false reports but quite big chunk tho, but on other hand ability to check ppl angles, learn from it etc is meh.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Betweenthelines
Posted (edited)

They don't fix the cheating because it's how they make money.

it's obvious by now.

 

"there will never be a killcam in ETF" - yes because then no one will ever play it when we have unlimited videos of all the cheaters.

Edited by Betweenthelines
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...