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Complete rework of skills


jockmcplop
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So the skill system, in my opinion, is absolutely horrible. Currently its only purpose is to give massive advantages to those who play the game the most, and in doing so put off anyone who doesn't have 8 hours a day to play the game. Its a big part of the reason i'm currently not playing the game.

My suggestion would be to do away with growth of skills altogether, and simply have assignable skill points on character creation that allow the player to specialize their character.

This would give the player a dilemma (do you want that extra strength, or better hideout management?), allow squad players to have roles within their squad, therefore adding complexity to the squad dynamics, and give solo players more of a chance of getting in and out of a raid by focusing all their points on speed and stamina type attributes. 

The advantages of this kind of system for a Tarkov style game are many, whereas the current system does nothing to but add to the sense of everlasting grind.

In my opinion.

 

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How would that be any better though?

So Player A sneaks around for hours on end to gain points that he then puts toward... Recoil control? Player B runs around like a madman to increase skill <xyz> then puts it toward... Recoil control?

In that way, then, I feel the "gain in what you DO" system makes a lot of sense.

That said, I do agree with your overall point that high level skills do seem to be much too overpowered.

If they keep the skill system, I'd like to see the Memory skill make a comeback in some way. Maybe have death included in some way, as a further detriment.

Otherwise, I'd prefer either scrapping the skills system altogether or DRASTICALLY reducing the top-level bonuses so there is not as wide of a divide.

OR!

Another interesting thing may be to turn it on its head. Rather than have a rather glacially slow pace, let the player advance more quickly BUT! with the drawback that dying knocks the progress down quite a bit.

The idea here being that the player would be able to gain meaningful progress in the course of three or four raids, to feel a difference in his playstyle choices. But once he dies once or twice, much of that progress is reset. 

Kind of like, "Oh wow! What a run! I survived six times in a row, was able to get <skill xyz> really high! That was fun! Let me try again, this time I'll focus on a different set of skills, see how that goes..."

Just my two cents :)

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1 hour ago, Spectator6 said:

How would that be any better though?

So Player A sneaks around for hours on end to gain points that he then puts toward... Recoil control? Player B runs around like a madman to increase skill <xyz> then puts it toward... Recoil control?

In that way, then, I feel the "gain in what you DO" system makes a lot of sense.

That said, I do agree with your overall point that high level skills do seem to be much too overpowered.

If they keep the skill system, I'd like to see the Memory skill make a comeback in some way. Maybe have death included in some way, as a further detriment.

Otherwise, I'd prefer either scrapping the skills system altogether or DRASTICALLY reducing the top-level bonuses so there is not as wide of a divide.

OR!

Another interesting thing may be to turn it on its head. Rather than have a rather glacially slow pace, let the player advance more quickly BUT! with the drawback that dying knocks the progress down quite a bit.

The idea here being that the player would be able to gain meaningful progress in the course of three or four raids, to feel a difference in his playstyle choices. But once he dies once or twice, much of that progress is reset. 

Kind of like, "Oh wow! What a run! I survived six times in a row, was able to get <skill xyz> really high! That was fun! Let me try again, this time I'll focus on a different set of skills, see how that goes..."

Just my two cents :)

Well I think the recoil control skill is massively OP and should be removed.

The idea is that you assign your skill points on character creation rather than as you play. That way if you want to sneak around putting points in stealth is helpful. 

I do like your idea that you gain skills fast unless you die, but I'm a little concerned that it would lead to even more ratty play, especially at lower levels, because survival becomes even more important. That wouldn't bother me but the chads would certainly be on here complaining!

Maybe some combination of these two ideas would work well. 

So you get *some* points to assign when you make your character, allowing you to specialize to a degree and get your playstyle going, instead of being utterly useless in every way at level 1, but then your playstyle also feeds back into even more skill points being automatically assigned to those skills you are using the most.

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I suspect I'm in the minority, but I like the fact we level up as we play, increasing the abilities of how I enjoy playing or taking me down a route of playing out-of-style just to improve certain stats.  What I do agree with is the fact the abilities should not get you laser accuracy recoil or super human strength, and in fact should probably lean on benefiting the early levels with diminishing returns on higher ones.  It makes sense that I will reload faster, ADS and mag fill more rapidly being experienced in a weapon compared to the first time I pick it up.

None of these bonuses makes a player invulnerable to a good shot to the face, so careful play can still kill players way outside your league.

Collecting points and assigning to create a virtual 'class' seems so far removed from what BSG seem to be trying to make I can't see it happening.

On a further point regarding recoil I seem to remember Nikita saying this was something on the dev's agenda anyway.

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3 hours ago, jockmcplop said:

The idea is that you assign your skill points on character creation rather than as you play.

Oh, I see what you mean now @jockmcplop !

Would the player be able to modify them at all during a wipe period? So if a player decides that after a while, he wishes he had put more skills toward <xyz> rather than <abc>, could he change it at some point? Or is he "stuck" forever?

Quote

That wouldn't bother me but the chads would certainly be on here complaining!

Same, I welcome their tears, let the salt flow!

Quote

but then your playstyle also feeds back into even more skill points being automatically assigned to those skills you are using the most.

Right, I see what you mean now!

---------------

Yeah, there's a big part of me that says if they want skills to be a noticeable feature in EFT, then why not just go all the way and embrace them entirely with quick gain and loss cycles? Because right now, things advance so slowly, no one I know "feels" like his character is any different. It's much too gradual to even notice.

I also absolutely hate the "keep forever" thing with skills because it allows players to become jacks-of-all-trade. Rather than specialize, the player can eventually "collect'em all!" which IMO, goes against the whole nature of an RPG.

On the other hand, there's another part of me that wouldn't mind them going away altogether and letting characters simply be on equal footing. Or, at the most, let the swing be +- 10% or so in either direction for a slight amount of differentiation. 

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Honestly, this is probably one of the best skill point systems I've ever seen in a game.

It makes dying a bunch early on much less frustrating when it's like "Well I may have died, but at least I got a level up in health and covert movement". Additionally the elite perks are a cool bonus that adds a nice twist for those that've played enough to get them imo.

 

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  • 5 weeks later...

The current skill system is quite cool, but honestly, I think your suggestion could make it even cooler.

I'd love to assing some skill points on character creation. Perhaps a head start, or an XP-Gain multiplier of some sorts. I'm thinking of a mix of the two systems.

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