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I enjoyed this wipe until Level 20


-Nil-
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Hi guys!

Now that I have the flea market, I feel the  progression is too easy and not fun.

I just have to buy stuff to upgrade my hideout, less scavenging anymore.

I can now make recoiless weapons , have powerful rounds  and buy some strong armor

I feel the gameplay is more Arcady, more run and gun, less about strategy , skills and fun

Jessiekazam made a video which shows that  https://youtu.be/bPOz0niYskk

I wish the flea would not exist, and we must rely only on merchants.

But that is just my opinion.

Anybody above level 20  feels the same?

Edited by -Nil-
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I'm not above level 20 yet but this is how I have felt in previous wipes.

Last wipe I got bored by level 30sih.

What's the incentive for continuing to level, and where are the stakes when you already have access to everything so early on. All it does is incentivize the worse aspects of the game, the endless grind for loot, and reduce the fun aspects, like the planning, strategy and tactics.

I'd personally like to see the flea market gone and more trader levels above the 4th level to grant cheaper and cheaper access to top quality gear to incentivize different types of gameplay, and more interesting missions that aren't about grinding but about utilizing different approaches to gameplay, as well as special quests that are related to in game events like boss meetings, that grant special unique gear as payment that you can't get from traders. Time-limited events would be a great way to give top tear ammo as a reward which means that you could remove it from traders and stop the gameplay from descending into cod like BS so quickly.

I absolutely love the new scav karma though. At the moment i only really want to do scav runs because i feel like i've experienced all that PMCs have to offer, and the gameplay is too repetitive and grindy as PMC.

Edited by jockmcplop
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See, as an adult, I want the game to require some grind to progress, but make it too grindy and it is just a waste of my free time to play a game which is a chore.

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@BlooDxHoundGrind what?

Only thing you might need to grind for is a labs keycard. Otherwise you can go on every single map at all times. And you don't need level 4 traders to have highest tier gear at level 12.

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27 minutes ago, Starioshka said:

@BlooDxHoundGrind what?

Only thing you might need to grind for is a labs keycard. Otherwise you can go on every single map at all times. And you don't need level 4 traders to have highest tier gear at level 12.

No, you need luck to get max gear at level 12 with all the hackers on maps like reserve. If reserve was not filled with hackers, then you could go farm raiders, but reserv's current state is a no go. So flea market is needed for non hackers to buy stuff like the optics they want.

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2 hours ago, Starioshka said:

@BlooDxHoundI suspect this is just racism against Russians/ Chinese, since I legit haven't met a single hacker in 500+ hours.

Christmass wipe had much less cheaters then this wipe (maybe the amount was same but more people played so it was not so obvious) and you cant compare 500+ hours during mid-late wipe with early wipe ... amount of cheaters spike early wipe and currently its just horrible, we had like 5-10 separate cheaters during 80-90 raids and I am talking about aimbot or wallhack, I am not talking about radar as its too hard to say if guy watched you for while or heard u and if he really have radar ... but well, its no secret that bsg is not doing anything with it because they made horrible decision by making client based game and you know ... money ... they could improve situations with hackers goin back even if they get banned but they dont because customer that buys game again and again is good customer even if he ruin game for your players as they wont buy game again so why care about them ...

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@gkcx2002Doubt anybody would have the balls as tough as Nikita's to stick it to the average crybaby and do whatever they deem necessary to accomplish The Vision.

Entire fun in EFT is in the difficulty. Early flea market is not a part of that that's why it got canned.

Edited by Starioshka
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4 hours ago, Starioshka said:

@BlooDxHoundI suspect this is just racism against Russians/ Chinese, since I legit haven't met a single hacker in 500+ hours.

god damn, racists against russians? wtf are you babbling about? some strong propaganda going on in russia?

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I'm enjoying more now (22) since I can craft stuff at hideout instead of opening drawer after drawer.

And I still haven't done jaeger 1st quest.

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heres a thought, dont use it and do your scavenging. 

9 hours ago, -Nil- said:

Hi guys!

Now that I have the flea market, I feel the  progression is too easy and not fun.

I just have to buy stuff to upgrade my hideout, less scavenging anymore.

I can now make recoiless weapons , have powerful rounds  and buy some strong armor

I feel the gameplay is more Arcady, more run and gun, less about strategy , skills and fun

Jessiekazam made a video which shows that  https://youtu.be/bPOz0niYskk

I wish the flea would not exist, and we must rely only on merchants.

But that is just my opinion.

Anybody above level 20  feels the same?

heres a thought, dont use it and do your scavenging. 

8 hours ago, Starioshka said:

#FleaMarketAt50

no, just stop

7 hours ago, Starioshka said:

@BlooDxHoundI suspect this is just racism against Russians/ Chinese, since I legit haven't met a single hacker in 500+ hours.

one of these guys lol

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9 hours ago, -Nil- said:

Hi guys!

Now that I have the flea market, I feel the  progression is too easy and not fun.

I just have to buy stuff to upgrade my hideout, less scavenging anymore.

I can now make recoiless weapons , have powerful rounds  and buy some strong armor

I feel the gameplay is more Arcady, more run and gun, less about strategy , skills and fun

Jessiekazam made a video which shows that  https://youtu.be/bPOz0niYskk

I wish the flea would not exist, and we must rely only on merchants.

But that is just my opinion.

Anybody above level 20  feels the same?

Any other wipe, I'd disagree but they've made changes to the starting guns and mods that are available so this wipe is the first i've enjoyed without flea. I wouldn't mind flea being moved to like 30+

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FleaMarket should be available from 10 lvl, or even less.WHat can do players not doing lvl 20 in a month agains all these  no lifers with top gear stuff???? Flea should be  primary to help  low levels that dont have equipment or for beginners to get some gear to counter  nolifers not the other way around.U have plenty of time u shouldnt need Flea AT ALL.

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Flea market makes the game boring for you ? why are you using it then ? no one is forcing you to use it.

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Honestly, there are several camps of players.

One is the one that likes questing. This person generally is not all that hardcore, and will not keep playing the game for thousands of hours. This is not whom to please if you want an successful playerbase.

Then there is the multiplayer, who hates questing. Who hates every minute under flea market level, because under that level, you don't have any rep to create ANY valid weapon other than bolts, VEPR and SKS. The recoil on all weapons is so horrible that you cannot even shoot 3 rounds at the same place without singletapping. 

For me, the fix here is not making the game poo for the part of the community that will keep the game alive - The multiplayers. For me, the fix is simply to NERF the recoil management severely. Currently with a maxed out HK / M4 you can spray 60 rounds at the same place, no issue. This is what is ruining the game. Not the ability to create viable weapons. Remove the possability of having overpowered weapons and we can all get along. 

Furthermore, quests based off of RNG might be fun for 1 wipe. Try 5-6 doing the same RNG based quests over and over and you'll grow tired soon.

 

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Completely agree. The level 20 limit made it the post wipe fun for just a bit longer... but in reality just made the fulltime sweaty basement dwellers get richer faster and further increased the economical divide between the player base.

first week or so post wipe is the best. no smg run n gun but now almost overnight it has turned back into cod as more and more players are hitting the 20 mark.

flea market has never been and never will be a good addition to the game.. never.

Edited by dapps
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4 hours ago, dapps said:

Completely agree. The level 20 limit made it the post wipe fun for just a bit longer... but in reality just made the fulltime sweaty basement dwellers get richer faster and further increased the economical divide between the player base.

first week or so post wipe is the best. no smg run n gun but now almost overnight it has turned back into cod as more and more players are hitting the 20 mark.

flea market has never been and never will be a good addition to the game.. never.

I haven't made it to 20 because of 12 hour swing shifts. I'm still having fun and I'm only level 14, but I have seen a few Chad's already and I've killed a few. I've had a ton of fun just looting certain areas for upgrades and such too, or spending time in areas I normally don't due to the previous flea setup. I personally would like to see the flea gone and the game a little less like call of duty. This patch has been an improvement in my opinion. Earlier before work I did a scav run on interchange and met a random scav player I did a little trading with.

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I am super confused with this post. 

Is someone holding a gun to your head forcing to use the flee market. Just because you get access to it at level 20 does not mean you have to use it. Just keep doing what you were doing before it existed if you were having fun. 

The flee market somewhat levels the playing field in the first few months with players that have unlimited time and those without time. It is a super simple concept.

Without the flee market almost every weapon, weapon attachment, armor and ammo is available to you at a cheaper cost via the traders. So just an additional 20 levels and you can buy the best armor and no recoil guns. 

The main difference is that the players with unlimited time have a massive advantage over those who do not for a shorter or longer period of time. 

Level 10 flee market - 1 week advantage

Level 20 flee market - 3 week advantage

No Flee Market - 3 month advantage

This game should be based off of skill not time sink. If you think differently I really do not know what to tell you.

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Yeah, the flea market definitely sucks the fun out of the game imo. For all the people saying “don’t like it, don’t use it”, why would intentionally handicapping  themselves change how the current flea market negatively (objectively) effects the overall gameplay? 
Like just because the OP wouldn’t be  running around with zero recoil AP ammo everything doesn’t mean others won’t.. 

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32 minutes ago, Evilwayz said:

I am super confused with this post. 

Is someone holding a gun to your head forcing to use the flee market. Just because you get access to it at level 20 does not mean you have to use it. Just keep doing what you were doing before it existed if you were having fun. 

The flee market somewhat levels the playing field in the first few months with players that have unlimited time and those without time. It is a super simple concept.

Without the flee market almost every weapon, weapon attachment, armor and ammo is available to you at a cheaper cost via the traders. So just an additional 20 levels and you can buy the best armor and no recoil guns. 

The main difference is that the players with unlimited time have a massive advantage over those who do not for a shorter or longer period of time. 

Level 10 flee market - 1 week advantage

Level 20 flee market - 3 week advantage

No Flee Market - 3 month advantage

This game should be based off of skill not time sink. If you think differently I really do not know what to tell you.

What if one of the underlying "problems" is that there are no meaningful downsides to wearing heavy armor?

In my mind, deciding between heavy armor vs light armor should not have such a clear "winner". Why? Because there are pros and cons to each.

And yet in-game, this trade-off seems to be rarely considered. A Kirasa player downs someone with Killa armor and he instantly swaps his armor out. There is nothing to decide, it's currently a simple no-brainer. Sure, there could be situations where the Killa armor is zeroed out or has very little "life" left to it, and maybe that would cause him to keep his Kirasa, but that's more of an exception to the overall dynamics I'm referring to here.

This seems to lead to an "endgame" state where players overwhelming become bulkier and bulkier as they move up the foodchain.

How does that behavior compare to what we find in real life? For example, if given the choice, do people "always" bulk up?

What kinds of "downsides", then, might be introduced into EFT to bring about a more nuanced decision for the player?

If proper "trade-offs" are introduced, how might that impact Trader progression? If the decision becomes something more situational, let's say, what would happen if certain "higher level" armors were offered at earlier Trader levels? How might the overall player behaviors be impacted if, upon unlocking UberArmor XYZ, players instead said, "Ehhh... Maybe. How would I use this properly? Interesting..."

(Just thinking out loud here :) )

Edited by Spectator6
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10 hours ago, CelineStarglade said:

Flea market makes the game boring for you ? why are you using it then ? no one is forcing you to use it.

Exactly.

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