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Complement Proposal, to ban cheats.


DrAntrax17
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Greetings,

who speaks to you is an average FPS player, I really enjoy Tarkov and it is not fair that out of 10 games in 11 you find yourself a cheater.

I recently stopped playing it for that reason. however I feel that I can contribute an idea that could help the entire community.

in Rainbow six siege, a game ravaged by cheats, they implemented a very useful tool, the repetition of games, with it you can analyze from a neutral point of view and see how people could be hiding seeing through the walls among other suspicious behaviors .

1-Be able to reproduce at the end of the game
2-Add a unique starting code to share and analyze them

Rainbow-Six-Match-Replay-menu-e1617594143304-1024x497.jpg

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On 7/21/2021 at 7:14 PM, DrAntrax17 said:

it is not fair that out of 10 games in 11 you find yourself a cheater.

Do you have any source of this statistics? What kind of cheats those people were probably using? Were they obvious cheaters? Have you reported them?

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Biala_Mewa the statistics on cheater are available only to the DEV, but sure in this game there is a huge feeling of being surrounded by cheater, and this is not a good feeling.

This being said true that most of the time is not a cheater but just a better player though if you go into the cheaters forums you can see how many people are cheating!

Sure you are banning them, which is good, but they buy another account from russia (cheaper) and keep playing.

Lately a lot of interview are coming outside of streamers that interview cheaters! Many of them do it for money, to sell rubles to other players.

It would be enough to do the following to limit the cheaters (you can't get rid of them unfortunately):

1) the replay suggested can help;

2) code a software that will flag an account that run 5+ games in one day (or 20+ in one week) and where he kill the whole lobby more or less (sometimes they go with people that pay them so they won,t be killed) and then inspect those players and maybe issue a timed ban, like 1 week ... if it continue will be 1 month then permanent ban;

3) send a warning to whoever party or received anything from someone permanent banned as cheater ... third warning is 1 week ban and so on even who just grouped with an account that got permanent banned as cheater will follow the cheater route (3 warning - 1 week ban - 1 warning - 1 month ban - 1 warning - permanent ban);

4) implement a better matchmaking system where people with similar K/D are matched, this way cheater with 10+ K/D will be matched with other cheater (and who is good at the game, once being matched 4/5 times with cheaters, will go down in K/D as the cheaters will one tap kill him from far away and he will go down and matched again with non cheaters);

5) implement a better way to check who is playing with a VPN and ban those accounts straight away!

 

I love the game, but is already harsh as it is, there is really no need of cheaters around.

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2 hours ago, Goan said:

Biala_Mewa the statistics on cheater are available only to the DEV, but sure in this game there is a huge feeling of being surrounded by cheater, and this is not a good feeling.

This being said true that most of the time is not a cheater but just a better player though if you go into the cheaters forums you can see how many people are cheating!

Sure you are banning them, which is good, but they buy another account from russia (cheaper) and keep playing.

Lately a lot of interview are coming outside of streamers that interview cheaters! Many of them do it for money, to sell rubles to other players.

It would be enough to do the following to limit the cheaters (you can't get rid of them unfortunately):

1) the replay suggested can help;

2) code a software that will flag an account that run 5+ games in one day (or 20+ in one week) and where he kill the whole lobby more or less (sometimes they go with people that pay them so they won,t be killed) and then inspect those players and maybe issue a timed ban, like 1 week ... if it continue will be 1 month then permanent ban;

3) send a warning to whoever party or received anything from someone permanent banned as cheater ... third warning is 1 week ban and so on even who just grouped with an account that got permanent banned as cheater will follow the cheater route (3 warning - 1 week ban - 1 warning - 1 month ban - 1 warning - permanent ban);

4) implement a better matchmaking system where people with similar K/D are matched, this way cheater with 10+ K/D will be matched with other cheater (and who is good at the game, once being matched 4/5 times with cheaters, will go down in K/D as the cheaters will one tap kill him from far away and he will go down and matched again with non cheaters);

5) implement a better way to check who is playing with a VPN and ban those accounts straight away!

I do understand that cheaters are a source of money also for you, as they keep buying accounts, but at some points will push all the other players away and a cheater, when he will be against just other cheater, will leave as well and the game will die at some point.

I love the game, but is already harsh as it is, there is really no need of cheaters around.

Bruh... Yeah another guy that thinks he got "PeRfeCT" solution for cheaters. 

And no, there will be no matchmaking, just get over it or change game

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2 hours ago, Goan said:

4) implement a better matchmaking system where people with similar K/D are matched, this way cheater with 10+ K/D will be matched with other cheater (and who is good at the game, once being matched 4/5 times with cheaters, will go down in K/D as the cheaters will one tap kill him from far away and he will go down and matched again with non cheaters);

There won't be such thing like matchmaking (more details). Why you should punish good players? When they get lower KD, as you said, they will gain higher KD at lower rank, so again they will be punished because they are just playing good. Plus sometimes you just have high survival rate and high KD by killing many Scavs, so why you should be punished? Don't you think this idea has too many problems to be useful?

2 hours ago, Goan said:

5) implement a better way to check who is playing with a VPN and ban those accounts straight away!

Unfortunately, there's is no proper technical way to do this.  So either you'll not catch those you want, or you'll have a larger number of false positives. Neither can be considered to make sense. And before you say "just ban IP", what about NAT? 😉 
 

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16 hours ago, Biala_Mewa said:

 

There won't be such thing like matchmaking (more details). Why you should punish good players? When they get lower KD, as you said, they will gain higher KD at lower rank, so again they will be punished because they are just playing good. Plus sometimes you just have high survival rate and high KD by killing many Scavs, so why you should be punished? Don't you think this idea has too many problems to be useful?

Unfortunately, there's is no proper technical way to do this.  So either you'll not catch those you want, or you'll have a larger number of false positives. Neither can be considered to make sense. And before you say "just ban IP", what about NAT? 😉 
 

I do understand that BUT there should be a solution (at least partial) as ignoring the problem won't do any good! Other companies at least try different solutions/ideas ... some goes even a little too far as Valorant did, but also doing nothing other than ban accounts after weeks that they are already making money selling rubles and ruin the experience of others is not a great thing.

 

Then those was just ideas, some maybe better than others or maybe all trash, I do not work on videogames so I do not know well, but cheaters should be one of the priority as I heard Nikita saying many times "we do that thing or we do not do that thing as this is not our vision for the game" ... but then if he doesn't do much about cheaters it means that is his vision of the game?

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17 minutes ago, Goan said:

but then if he doesn't do much about cheaters it means that is his vision of the game?

Please, do not give false accusation without any background data. 

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It is not an accusation but it follow a chain of thought...he remove from the game something that is not in his vision ... he does not go full effort on cheaters ... looks like that is his vision, it is like doing 1+1=2.

Do not get me wrong, and thank you for always reply and take care of this forum, at the end of the day is true what coredumped7893 said, in a really rude way, showing lack of education, when it will be too much to handle I will leave, as many other did in the past and as many eventually will do in the future!

This being said though, why not at least try to change things, giving some ideas (that may be wrong eh) hoping that at some point something will be done ... as there are a lot of cheaters and many videos on youtube are coming out showing what is possible to be done, from wallhack, flying around, automatic headshot even if not in line of sight, see everyone in the map (and being able to shoot at them), pink textures to better spot the enemy and more. I hope at some point someone will decide to do something effective on this regard, that's is it.

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vor 25 Minuten schrieb Biala_Mewa:

Please, do not give false accusation without any background data. 

Then... what about finally give us some Information? BSG is only doing one thing and in that they are masters: Not adressing anything! No statements at all.. total silence. 

I understand that you as a mod can't be neutral since you have to stick to them but as long as the common communication with us is rather saying nothing people will stick to the common assumption that you guys just don't give a thing. There are enough Videos and proofs outside that cheating is a pandemic in here right now and still nothing is being done,.. or at least it seems so because NO STATEMENTS AT ALL! 

So stop calling us out for false assumptions until YOU guys give US some Intel of whats going on. 

We dont have to proof anything anymore, we are the ones who finance this project and therefore BSG owes us an honest and open flow of information. 

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38 minutes ago, J0hn_D0e said:

Then... what about finally give us some Information? BSG is only doing one thing and in that they are masters: Not adressing anything! No statements at all.. total silence. 

I understand that you as a mod can't be neutral since you have to stick to them but as long as the common communication with us is rather saying nothing people will stick to the common assumption that you guys just don't give a thing. There are enough Videos and proofs outside that cheating is a pandemic in here right now and still nothing is being done,.. or at least it seems so because NO STATEMENTS AT ALL! 

So stop calling us out for false assumptions until YOU guys give US some Intel of whats going on. 

We dont have to proof anything anymore, we are the ones who finance this project and therefore BSG owes us an honest and open flow of information. 

I can't say that I do not agree with you but being aggressive won't do anything (and unfortuantely probably also being polite won't do anything) but still, being polite is usually the nicest way :)

We bought the game, is not BSG fault, they did not force us, they do have a vision and is fair that they follow it, I do not agree on the "I gave you my money now you owe me", that is not true!

This being said more communication is for sure needed and also a clear wish of reducing the cheaters as, for now, it really looks like that all they care is to monetize on the cheaters as, after some times, they are getting banned and they will buy new accounts!

I personally would prefer that BSG would sell rubles themselves...at least it will sponsor the game and reduce/eliminate the cheaters! Ture it will be pay to win (not really but...pay for an advantage) but honestly in 2021, between streamers and jobless people, there is already such a big disadvantage from them to who works and maybe has a family that is someone that works wants to throw some money into buy some rubles to get at elast one run a day as chad, I won't complain! At least there won't be anymore (or much less) people that kill you no matter where you are in the map, that see you everywhere and that ruin the game.

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6 minutes ago, rickyrickk said:

Do you have any source of this statistics???🤔

Only BSG has, as I do not even know how many players there are in each region BUT just google tarkov cheat forum and look for yourself how many people are posting in those forums ... there are MUCH MORE than posting here and I suppose that at least 50% of them are using them (I would say more but I like to stay low) .... and are more than 10.000 players ... easy to find at least one of them every other game I would say! Then add the one who doesn't post in the forums! Lately many videos came outside youtube interviewing cheaters and showing what they can do ... have a look there if you are interested!

They are also pulling statistics (as some of them sell cheat and knows how many they sold) and you will understand!

It is just frustrating ... and tarkov is already a frustrating game by itself, which is probably what makes it so good, but no extra unfair frustration needs to be added to the formula.

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23 hours ago, Goan said:

1) the replay suggested can help;

2) code a software that will flag...

3) send a warning to whoever party ...

4) implement a better matchmaking system...

5) implement a better way to check who is playing with a VPN...

1 - kinda easy and they don't care.

2 - AI coding is extremely difficult and no game developer uses this legally.

3 - 3 warnings, really, they are infants that don't know what are doing? 3 raids together shoud be account wiped, 5 together insta ban. You don't trust random people real life, why would you trust here? People know who they are playing with. If I were cheating, I would never carry random idiots for free to be shot in the back. And yeah, they don't care also

4 - you can practice on JET. Pretty good by the way :) 

5 - extremely easy but why playing on VPN should be bannable offense? My IP changes if I reset my modem and I know because of Binance emailing me every 3 days... Pretty sure lots of people have this as well so no VPN is ever needed.

 

By the way game is pretty playable now (saturday!), guess RMT buyers already bought everything they need on 1st week.

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23 hours ago, ricacov said:

1 - kinda easy and they don't care.

2 - AI coding is extremely difficult and no game developer uses this legally.

3 - 3 warnings, really, they are infants that don't know what are doing? 3 raids together shoud be account wiped, 5 together insta ban. You don't trust random people real life, why would you trust here? People know who they are playing with. If I were cheating, I would never carry random idiots for free to be shot in the back. And yeah, they don't care also

4 - you can practice on JET. Pretty good by the way :) 

5 - extremely easy but why playing on VPN should be bannable offense? My IP changes if I reset my modem and I know because of Binance emailing me every 3 days... Pretty sure lots of people have this as well so no VPN is ever needed.

 

By the way game is pretty playable now (saturday!), guess RMT buyers already bought everything they need on 1st week.

The VPN "problem" is that cheater use it to buy the game code in russia and then play anywhere! As they get banned and they buy the game at a lower price (as in Russia is cheaper, also due currency exchange) so they do not really care to pay, as example, 9.99 each month and be god around. Your IP change but is still in your country and probably in your city ... but there are people in USA playing with Russian code, as example, and this should be blocked!

I am not a game developer so it shouldn't be my responsibility to practice on JET. or anything, I just throw random ideas which, if they really want to get rid of cheaters, they should consider (and then ignore if they are bad ideas or develop on them, maybe improving them).

Regarding the warning ... it is just to let them know "we see you...be careful" but again, that was just an idea, it can be improved by who do this for profession, maybe yours is better, maybe there is even a better one!

Regarding the AI coding ... it is not needed to be like NASA AI ... if a player kill 80% of the lobby 80% of the time for, lets say, 5 games...the account will be flagged and who is taking care about cheaters will have a close look at that account (with eye something ... can't remember how they named this feture), this is it, nothing super automated.

Maybe the real truth is in your answer to the first suggestion ... THEY DO NOT CARE ... but I do not understand why not.

Still true, this wipe is much more playable...again I think it is because FLEA at lvl 20 so who is not lvl 20 still do not use boosting services or buy rubles ... other than you meet the cheaters in low end maps, like LABS ... so, as now progression is slower, people are still running other maps mostly ... we will see in few months time.

Anyway, at the end of the day, is just to talk and to try to help the game growth ... if at some point the game will be unplayable due to cheaters, people will leave I suppose BUT if we do not say nothing they will think that there is no issue, at elast this way they know that the issue is still there, because unfortuantely is still there!

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On 7/22/2021 at 8:56 PM, Biala_Mewa said:

 

My source: The games that I play, I have reported several suspicious people and others who did not even care to hide, they are very shameless.

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On 7/21/2021 at 7:14 PM, DrAntrax17 said:

out of 10 games in 11 you find yourself a cheater.

I' ve asked about this, in every raid you've met a cheater? 

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2 hours ago, Biala_Mewa said:

Le he preguntado sobre esto, ¿en cada redada que ha conocido a un tramposo? 

That's how it is!

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Some moved very fast on the map, others killed me from far away with iron sights. I could follow the list.

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14 hours ago, DrAntrax17 said:

Some moved very fast on the map, others killed me from far away with iron sights. I could follow the list.

Well unlucky, but to be honest using iron sights does not mean that somebody is cheating.

And just of of curiosity, how do you know that you were killed from far away with iron sights?

And on what server do you play?

Edited by coredumped7893
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If there had been a repetition system I would have known, that's the point, you ask me things that you know are difficult to prove.  By intuition I realized that whoever kills me in the game is not someone 100% legal. I am hiding without making a sound. They just go where you are.
 

american server

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9 hours ago, DrAntrax17 said:

If there had been a repetition system I would have known, that's the point, you ask me things that you know are difficult to prove.  By intuition I realized that whoever kills me in the game is not someone 100% legal. I am hiding without making a sound. They just go where you are.
 

american server

Bruhh... just read your own posts carefully. First you write this:

"others killed me from far away with iron sights. I could follow the list."

And then you say that you don't know this. So maybe don't make this kind of assumptions at all?

"By intuition I realized that whoever kills me in the game is not someone 100% legal" - you CANT accuse everyone of cheating, dude, this thinking is so wrong on so many levels.

9 hours ago, DrAntrax17 said:

I am hiding without making a sound. They just go where you are.

Why I have a feeling that you are just sitting in a high traffic area, and that at the end of the day it's just your fault for sitting there.

 

9 hours ago, DrAntrax17 said:

If there had been a repetition system I would have known

More on that (replay system) you can read here

 

Edited by coredumped7893
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