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Scav karma is broken


dkg
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In theory scav karma is a great idea but there is one factor for me that causes more frustration than anything else in the game and what is even worse I don't think it can be fixed. Every few raids I'm being attacked  by a hostile scav that can't tag me before I kill him and I end up loosing reputation for killing him and all AI scavs attacks me afterwards so I loose even more rep if I kill them or I have to just die. The only way to prevent this is to wait to get hit and pray not to die. It's literally punishment for self deffence  ... just ridiculous.

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I agree the scav karma system sucks and needs to be removed. This is a FPS game, not a friendship simulator.

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I suggest if BSG wants to keep the Scav Karma system, the penalties should be heavier than fence rep. De-rank the player scav's level once per deliberate kill on another scav. Nobody really thinks twice about fence rep thus actions based on greed have virtually 0 repercussions just like they've always have.

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2 hours ago, RadynStarr said:

I suggest if BSG wants to keep the Scav Karma system, the penalties should be heavier than fence rep. De-rank the player scav's level once per deliberate kill on another scav. Nobody really thinks twice about fence rep thus actions based on greed have virtually 0 repercussions just like they've always have.

the problem I was referring to is gonna became even worse. There will be people who will use their scav deliberately to make another players kill them and get penalties. It's really easy strategy - attack but don't tag, get killed and you're good but the guy who killed you get penalties for killing you and every other scav that attacks him afterwards

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15 hours ago, dkg said:

In theory scav karma is a great idea but there is one factor for me that causes more frustration than anything else in the game and what is even worse I don't think it can be fixed. Every few raids I'm being attacked  by a hostile scav that can't tag me before I kill him and I end up loosing reputation for killing him and all AI scavs attacks me afterwards so I loose even more rep if I kill them or I have to just die. The only way to prevent this is to wait to get hit and pray not to die. It's literally punishment for self deffence  ... just ridiculous.

this is the first patch of karma system in game, there will be some problems for sure, like the one you mentioned and over time it will change for sure. being impatient and demanding for removing a system that just got released its stupid. 

11 hours ago, Stonie_926 said:

I agree the scav karma system sucks and needs to be removed. This is a FPS game, not a friendship simulator.

you bought a game that you have no idea what it is. do some research before buying a product.

this system is not only for scavs, we will see this system on pmcs also after testing this system on scavs, which we are doing it right now. and before answering me that pmc karma will be stupid, go inform yourself with how it may be as pmcs, then come and cry about it.

honestly karma system is one of the best features that have been introduced in this game, yeah it needs some tweaking and adding more punishments. with more punishment, scav players will be forced to stop shooting friendlies.

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12 hours ago, Stonie_926 said:

I agree the scav karma system sucks and needs to be removed. This is a FPS game, not a friendship simulator.

i agree its actually pointless and takes the fun out of doing scav runs imo

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21 hours ago, Mattd316 said:

i agree its actually pointless and takes the fun out of doing scav runs imo

Tarkov is more than "run and gun" game, it has its own lore and whole background story, that's why Scav on Scav violence just simple makes no sense. Of course you can still choose if you want to be friendly or no, but you will be punished for your decision. 

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10 minutes ago, Biala_Mewa said:

Tarkov is more than "run and gun" game, it has its own lore and whole background story, that's why Scav on Scav violance just simple makes no sense. Of course you can still choose if you want to be friendly or no, but you will be punished for your decision. 

Call of duty has it's own lore and whole background history, and yet it's Mara killing Maras (I love Alex Zedra), Johnny Cage killing Jigsaws etc; Pokémon has it's own lore and whole background history and yet it's pure animal gore; and a nice graphic novel that has it's own lore and whole background history that I recommend is Danganrompa, 40 hours of students killing themselves.

At least make the "punishing" harsher. No one cares about Fence reputation. I am stuck at 1.17 since day 3(?) of wipe because... I don't care... Also I don't use scavs.

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13 minutes ago, ricacov said:

Call of duty has it's own lore and whole background history, and yet it's Mara killing Maras (I love Alex Zedra), Johnny Cage killing Jigsaws etc; Pokémon has it's own lore and whole background history and yet it's pure animal gore; and a nice graphic novel that has it's own lore and whole background history that I recommend is Danganrompa, 40 hours of students killing themselves.

At least make the "punishing" harsher. No one cares about Fence reputation. I am stuck at 1.17 since day 3(?) of wipe because... I don't care... Also I don't use scavs.

Call of Duty is Call of Duty, Tarkov is Tarkov. Every game has its own goals and gameplay, no point in comparison. CoD gameplay is dynamic, EFT gameplay is tactical etc. 

Remember that this is the FIRST implementation of Scav Karma in EFT, so it will be developed and adjusted. Please don't make statements that "no one cares about Fence reputation". I care about it, because it gives you nice benefits. It's not "all". If you don't use Scavs, Scav Karma should not be bother you. It is not obligatory to use it and to level it. If you don't want to increase it, nothing bad happens. 

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6 hours ago, behi09ma said:

this is the first patch of karma system in game, there will be some problems for sure, like the one you mentioned and over time it will change for sure. being impatient and demanding for removing a system that just got released its stupid

you don't understand - they are adding new game changing mechanics into the game clearly without any backtesting at all. At first you were punished negative rep even if you were attacked first - they fixed that already as far as I know. The problem I was mentioning still exists and probably is unfixable (I don't now how to check if someone was shooting in your direction to attack you and missed or was shooting anything else). These are not the type of issues that you need to test on 10000 people over 6 months to identify - you need literally two players on the dev server to find out that "hey, if you attack me and I shoot you back I get negative rep and it is not how it supposed to be". It's clear that they did not do that at all and this is just inconceivable.

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The karma system should really be an opt-in. When you see other scavs there should be some way to signal and "agree" to be peaceful. Once agreed, either of you that breaks the truce gets punished, but if there was no agreement then there should be no punishment. If you both extract without incident you get some reward in the form of rep or whatever.

Clearly a significant amount of a players aren't interested in the karma system, if the devs are going to punish people for fighting in a warzone, to the point that they can't even use their scav, then it's not really a choice and they should just make scavs invincible to one another. It would be stupid, but it would be fair at least and not give the illusion that there's some other option.

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7 hours ago, behi09ma said:

this is the first patch of karma system in game, there will be some problems for sure, like the one you mentioned and over time it will change for sure. being impatient and demanding for removing a system that just got released its stupid. 

you bought a game that you have no idea what it is. do some research before buying a product.

this system is not only for scavs, we will see this system on pmcs also after testing this system on scavs, which we are doing it right now. and before answering me that pmc karma will be stupid, go inform yourself with how it may be as pmcs, then come and cry about it.

honestly karma system is one of the best features that have been introduced in this game, yeah it needs some tweaking and adding more punishments. with more punishment, scav players will be forced to stop shooting friendlies.

Excuse me? I do to know what this game is! You clearly don't understand what FPS stands for. I purchased this game before last wipe, where there was something called "combat" and if you remove that from the game, you just loot and that's it! The combat is what makes this game unique and entertaining, and if BSG is going to take this out, what is the point of the game???

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17 minutes ago, Qban_JohnWick said:

First i did not gain any reputation and on top of that other svas started attacking me

at least he managed to hit you first so you didn't get "awarded" a negative 0.05 rep for defending 😜

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9 hours ago, dkg said:

you don't understand...

yeah sure i don't understand!!! you are saying that BSG has no idea what they are doing, and you as a consumer, bought a beta phase game without having faith in this Dev, so now you are complaining that they even can't test a simple thing before releasing. 

buying a game in this phase without having faith in devs, its stupidity in my eyes.

8 hours ago, Stonie_926 said:

Excuse me? I do to know what this game is...

just a little example of the game's vision from raid series. you sure have seen those series?! that's the lore in this game which right now people don't pay attention to it, cause in game we have not seen the lore and main quests yet. and i believe after street of tarkov we will have the main quests that follows the lore. in those series you may have noticed that scavs are not killing eachother! they are in groups of 4,5 that are trying to kill the pmcs. meanwhile pmcs with same faction are not killing eachother. they are in groups trying to kill the scavs and pmcs with different faction. and in the last sequence you can see that even a bear and a usec teamup to escape from tarkov!! this is the karma system that will motivate or force you to not kill anything that moves. like i said pmc karma will come after they fix and test more stuff on scavs. so if you insist that you know what you bought, atleast try to see what is the Dev's vision behind this game, in that case you will not say this is only a FPS game.

people think that tarkov in the current state is the final product and there act like there should be no changes that effect their playstyle. i have bad news to those guys, try to adapt to these small changes that comes by over time, in that case, you can handle the big changes that most likely will come after streets.

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3 hours ago, behi09ma said:

yeah sure i don't understand!!! you are saying that BSG has no idea what they are doing, and you as a consumer, bought a beta phase game without having faith in this Dev, so now you are complaining that they even can't test a simple thing before releasing. 

buying a game in this phase without having faith in devs, its stupidity in my eyes.

man, I'm defending BSG most of the times and I know what does beta mean and I do software development myself - I know how it works. There is just one small thing, they don't play their own game and it's just bad. Previous wipe there was a test program I participated in, I decided not to play main account the entire wipe and just do the test environment ...the test servers were like two weeks behind the production server the entire time. The karma system couldn't be tested on test servers anyway because there wasn't enough players to play as a scav regularly but it could be tested by literally two people from the dev team. I don't think you'll get what I'm trying to say but maybe others will.

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The punishment should be more severe, if you dont care about fence rep and money isnt an issue there are literally no downsides by being a "bad" scav. As a "friendly" scav you lose everything, everything you spawned in with, everything you looted etc and you gain nothing except being irritated and having to wait on a new cooldown while the bad scav gains everything you have. I think if you get killed by a bad scav you should maybe get half of whatever cooldown you normally would have or some other reward. 

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16 hours ago, ricacov said:

At least make the "punishing" harsher. No one cares about Fence reputation. I am stuck at 1.17 since day 3(?) of wipe because... I don't care... Also I don't use scavs.

I care about it and I use scavs. So if you don`t care then why are you here?

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13 hours ago, behi09ma said:

yeah sure i don't understand!!! you are saying that BSG has no idea what they are doing, and you as a consumer, bought a beta phase game without having faith in this Dev, so now you are complaining that they even can't test a simple thing before releasing. 

buying a game in this phase without having faith in devs, its stupidity in my eyes.

just a little example of the game's vision from raid series. you sure have seen those series?! that's the lore in this game which right now people don't pay attention to it, cause in game we have not seen the lore and main quests yet. and i believe after street of tarkov we will have the main quests that follows the lore. in those series you may have noticed that scavs are not killing eachother! they are in groups of 4,5 that are trying to kill the pmcs. meanwhile pmcs with same faction are not killing eachother. they are in groups trying to kill the scavs and pmcs with different faction. and in the last sequence you can see that even a bear and a usec teamup to escape from tarkov!! this is the karma system that will motivate or force you to not kill anything that moves. like i said pmc karma will come after they fix and test more stuff on scavs. so if you insist that you know what you bought, atleast try to see what is the Dev's vision behind this game, in that case you will not say this is only a FPS game.

people think that tarkov in the current state is the final product and there act like there should be no changes that effect their playstyle. i have bad news to those guys, try to adapt to these small changes that comes by over time, in that case, you can handle the big changes that most likely will come after streets.

Listen, first of all I'm pretty sure you are the only person who cares about this games lore. Second, if BSG is trying to make scavs not kill each other, maybe don't put a little slide in the loading screen pre-raid that says scavs live under "dog eat dog" rules and slit each others throats. Third, in the context of what I was trying to say was that even though scav karma is still in the game, SCAVS ARE STILL KILLING EACH OTHER!!!! I don't kill scavs, but OTHER PEOPLE DO! So if what you are saying is BSTs dream, they suck at trying to get people on board with it. Lastly, you can't make people go in a specific direction for any game at all, they can do what they want, if scavs wanna kill each other, so be it! I wanna kill people, and am going to continue killing whoever I want. So BSTs dream for a lore based game is not going to work for the future.

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12 minutes ago, Stonie_926 said:

Listen, first of all I'm pretty sure you are the only person who cares about this games lore. Second, if BSG is trying to make scavs not kill each other, maybe don't put a little slide in the loading screen pre-raid that says scavs live under "dog eat dog" rules and slit each others throats. Third, in the context of what I was trying to say was that even though scav karma is still in the game, SCAVS ARE STILL KILLING EACH OTHER!!!! I don't kill scavs, but OTHER PEOPLE DO! So if what you are saying is BSTs dream, they suck at trying to get people on board with it. Lastly, you can't make people go in a specific direction for any game at all, they can do what they want, if scavs wanna kill each other, so be it! I wanna kill people, and am going to continue killing whoever I want. So BSTs dream for a lore based game is not going to work for the future.

who says you can't kill whatever you see?! you are free to do whatever you like in this game, and that's why i play this game, but everything you are doing or you will do will have consequences. thats it. you can't force people to do anything but by giving some rewards for behaving good, and punishing them for being bad will change people's playstyle in time. 

meanwhile i'm not saying i care about the lore, i said BSG ( the devs that made this game ) not BST, have vision, and you better know what is there vision on this product that you bought. by knowing that, you will see which direction they want to go and how the final product will be. if you wanna still be on denial, no one is bothering you, have fun as much as you can for now, cause this game will not be only a shooter game that you think of.

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5 minutes ago, behi09ma said:

you can't force people to do anything but by giving some rewards for behaving good, and punishing them for being bad will change people's playstyle in time. 

The significant oversight is that the reward for pro-social behavior isn't large enough to benefit anyone.  Player scavs that shoot first are winning all the way around.  Then it's a quick and easy remedy to rebuild a bit of rep.  The only player that suffers is the one attempting to play by the rules.  That should have been obvious from the moment they drafted the concept.

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9 hours ago, coredumped7893 said:

I care about it and I use scavs. So if you don`t care then why are you here?

I use once like every 3 days when my inventory starts to feel empty.

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2 hours ago, behi09ma said:

who says you can't kill whatever you see?! you are free to do whatever you like in this game, and that's why i play this game, but everything you are doing or you will do will have consequences. thats it. you can't force people to do anything but by giving some rewards for behaving good, and punishing them for being bad will change people's playstyle in time. 

meanwhile i'm not saying i care about the lore, i said BSG ( the devs that made this game ) not BST, have vision, and you better know what is there vision on this product that you bought. by knowing that, you will see which direction they want to go and how the final product will be. if you wanna still be on denial, no one is bothering you, have fun as much as you can for now, cause this game will not be only a shooter game that you think of.

I am glad we agree that everyone is free to do as they wish in the game. BST was a typo. I guarantee you 100% that this "vision" you are talking about for the future of Tarkov is going to ruin it completely and everyone will hate it. As we agreed that you are free to do as you want, I promise you more people would rather be restricted from killing people rather then punished for killing people. The only thing that would give this "vision" a small chance for success in the future is just to turn off friendly fire. While that would ruin the game for me because it wouldn't be realistic, It's a video game.

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Everyone is just focussing on Punishment, which doesn't help you as a "Good' Scav. If you would get some small rep bonus when killed by a Traitor Scav, (like +0.01) at least you get something out of it. It rewards good SCAVs playing nice, while Bad SCAVs can still be Bad.

I love the Scav karma system and I think it just needs people to learn how to work with it. My main concern is that atm there is no real effective way to get back into good standing and to identify bad/Traitor scavs. killing a PMC as a SCAV is hard enough, let alone having to kill 5 for every accidental SCAV you shoot.

This is kinda causing me to simple never start fights as scav. Just out of worry that that dude in the dark, that is not responding to my calls, and had full armor kit. Still might be a SCAV, and ill get -0.05 by shooting him.

 

 

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Or something like as a scav, you can give "away" your looted barter items at the end of the raid, directly to fence. You dont get $ but you get some small increase in standing. This can only be done if your were a good scav that raid. 


I would think this is actually already in development as BSG has already confirmed SCAV quests/missions. So like other have said, its 1st SCAV patch. It will defiantly evolve over time.

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