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Award EXP for damage


Anzac_Mack
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As a new player with no access to good ammo, it's becoming a regular occurrence that I run into a high level PMC, deal 400+ damage, and die with 0 exp...
The game is punishing me for being low level, while also ensuring I remain low level...
Can't you at least give a bit of exp for damage dealt? And just add a bonus for a kill.
I'm sure a lot of squad players would appreciate this too; so when they deal the most damage to an enemy and a teammate steals the kill, they still get rewarded.

Another suggestion is scale up exp for killing higher level players. E.g. if a level 5 kills a level 40, why not give them 10k exp? It's a fair mechanic to help newbies catch up..

You have to give new players something.. Currently everything is stacked against them and it's completely unfair and unsustainable. Most new players will quit EFT in its current state.

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It's Tarkov, I don't think this game was build to be fair 😉.
Entering late in the wipe you really need to take your spots when you can. But also know when to avoid the fight. (Hmmmm something I maybe need to listen to myself.......😅)

But I do like the idea of getting XP on damaged dealt.

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Feels more like it was designed to be deliberately unfair, which I don't understand the logic behind.
They could easily have their "hardcore realistic shooter" that also has at least some fairness and balance.

If you're gonna put newbies against unkillable high lvl players, you have to award them something for atleast putting up a good fight and getting close to killing them.
Can't always avoid them, especially with radar hacks etc..

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On 9/18/2021 at 1:39 PM, Anzac_Mack said:

Another suggestion is scale up exp for killing higher level players. E.g. if a level 5 kills a level 40, why not give them 10k exp?

Well, 10k XP is too much. The progression in Tarkov is right now too fast - I know that for new players it's different, but overall - people are levelling too fast. Plus I have worries that your idea is forcing players to do more PvP. And Tarkov is not about PvP and killing other players for XP. 

 

Tarkov is meant to be hard and punishing. You are winning if you have good knowledge about mechanics. Knowledge - this is the true skill of Tarkov. 

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2 hours ago, Biala_Mewa said:

Well, 10k XP is too much. The progression in Tarkov is right now too fast - I know that for new players it's different, but overall - people are levelling too fast. Plus I have worries that your idea is forcing players to do more PvP. And Tarkov is not about PvP and killing other players for XP. 

 

Tarkov is meant to be hard and punishing. You are winning if you have good knowledge about mechanics. Knowledge - this is the true skill of Tarkov. 

10k was an arbitrary example. I'm sure the devs could come up with a balanced/reasonable bonus. Even if it's a small bonus it would be a step in the right direction. It's certainly justified/warranted, if they refuse to bracket pvp by level.

IMO it's the wrong kind of 'hard and punishing', and it doesn't need to be.
Only certain people are leveling 'too quickly' and it's because they're no-lifers who get ahead early in a wipe and then snowball by crushing lower lvl players.
This is caused by the imbalance of not having pvp bracketed by level, and allowing squads vs solo.

It's not necessary to ruin the experience of new players by locking them out of flea until lvl 20, just because the hardcore players complain they "level too quickly" (read: play too much). There are better solutions.

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For context, I'm a long time hardcore WoW player. I don't believe in new/casual players being gifted everything on a platter and being able to compete on a level playing field with those who worked harder.
But the thing is, games like WoW have level-bracketed PVP. If I was a hardcore level 70 getting matched against level 10's.. I'd be siding with the level 10's asking to have their own bracket..

Being a hardcore player should give me an advantage over fellow level 70's, not give me the right to bully noobs who have no chance.. Especially when getting bullied denies them the XP they need to level up.

EFT's design is fundamentally flawed. I don't understand why anyone defends it.
You can have a brutal/hardcore realistic shooter without it being completely unbalanced/unfair in all the wrong ways.

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On 9/18/2021 at 6:39 AM, Anzac_Mack said:

Another suggestion is scale up exp for killing higher level players. E.g. if a level 5 kills a level 40, why not give them 10k exp?

10k is high for a single kill but they used to do exactly this back in the alpha/.50 days you could just kill like 2-3 high level guys and make like 10k-20k for the entire raid. They also used to have an 'inflicted heavy damage' bonus as well but got rid of it all to slow down progression. Dogtags did this too, when they first got introduced the higher the level of the dog tag, the higher it'd sell for. If you killed a level 40 something and grabbed his dogtag that could easily be 40-50k right there. Kill 3-4 higher level guys the dog tags alone could make it worth it. Again, they thought people made too much money and got too much XP off of PVP, it's clear they want progression slowed to a glacial, crawling pace, especially if progression is still considered too fast now, Tarkov needs to become a second job.

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3 minutes ago, TechoverMana said:

10k is high for a single kill but they used to do exactly this back in the alpha/.50 days you could just kill like 2-3 high level guys and make like 10k-20k for the entire raid. They also used to have an 'inflicted heavy damage' bonus as well but got rid of it all to slow down progression. Dogtags did this too, when they first got introduced the higher the level of the dog tag, the higher it'd sell for. If you killed a level 40 something and grabbed his dogtag that could easily be 40-50k right there. Kill 3-4 higher level guys the dog tags alone could make it worth it. Again, they thought people made too much money and got too much XP off of PVP, it's clear they want progression slowed to a glacial, crawling pace, especially if progression is still considered too fast now, Tarkov needs to become a second job.

Sadly that seems to be the case. Personally I think it's a mistake to slow progression to cater to the hardcore crowd who are able to treat Tarkov like a second job (or a full time job in some cases..). It just locks everyone else out of the game.

Interesting to hear they used to have features similar to my suggestions..

I think the solution is that the no-lifers need to stop complaining about progression being too fast and realize they simply play the game too damn much..

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23 hours ago, Anzac_Mack said:

Only certain people are leveling 'too quickly' and it's because they're no-lifers who get ahead early in a wipe and then snowball by crushing lower lvl players.

That's not true in my opinion - you don't need to play Tarkov whole day and week to achieve something. In EFT knowledge matters. When someone is experienced, he does not need to grind 24/7 to unlock, for example, Flea Market. He will probably know how to deal with some quests etc. 
And moreover, it's better to level up for new players during mid-wipe. All first-task items are not being picked, like gas analysers etc. Certain spots for quests, like Dorm room 206 with water barrels (no loot) are much less populated.  

The core of Tarkov is to be punishing, unbalanced and hard - just like life 😉 That's the point. I know it's hard for new players - but let's be honest, even experienced Tarkov citizens had struggles at their beginning. One of the good advice for newbies is just to spend one wipe on learning whole game - it will pay out. 

23 hours ago, Anzac_Mack said:

It's not necessary to ruin the experience of new players by locking them out of flea until lvl 20, just because the hardcore players complain they "level too quickly" (read: play too much). There are better solutions.

Flea Market needs to be balanced, trust me but level 10 can be achieved really fast. Locking FM by level 20 causes that less players have the best gear and the phase with running basic kits from Traders is just longer. Plus game is more immersive - you live in destroyed abandoned city, so you need to cooperate with local shady Traders if you want to survive. I've played few wipes with FM unlocked at lvl 10, and this wipe is better. I remember when there was FM unlocked at lvl 5 and you could sell any item - you didn't need FiR status. At low level I was running with Gen4 and Killa Helmet, this was waaaay too much. Current changes to FM are great. 

Please, try not to put everybody in the same bag: levelling too quickly doesn't mean playing too much. Well, it's personal example, but I play only during weekends right now. And in few raids I can gain 2-3 levels, without any effort to be honest. All because knowledge about the game. And I don't play PvP - I barely kill any PMC, but also barely die. 

23 hours ago, Anzac_Mack said:

This is caused by the imbalance of not having pvp bracketed by level, and allowing squads vs solo.

Tarkov was never said to be balanced. Raids are unpredictable, you shouldn't ever know how many groups or solo players you will meet. That's the point. New players should learn basic mechanics and avoid PvP - avoid hot spots and "crowdy" locations, learn the spawn points and wait sometimes few minutes till other players go away.

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On 9/20/2021 at 11:48 AM, Biala_Mewa said:

Well, 10k XP is too much. The progression in Tarkov is right now too fast - I know that for new players it's different, but overall - people are levelling too fast. Plus I have worries that your idea is forcing players to do more PvP. And Tarkov is not about PvP and killing other players for XP. 

 

Tarkov is meant to be hard and punishing. You are winning if you have good knowledge about mechanics. Knowledge - this is the true skill of Tarkov. 

 

That is the biggest load of sh_T I've read.  Tarkov IS ABOUT PVP, they literally force it upon you via the "quests".  "Kill a 30 PMCs while wearing a scav vest, with a PP-19 with a silencer and pistol grip of X type, while standing on one foot with tremor"  I don't understand how "it's meant to be hard/punshing" equates to crap gameplay/mechanics with this community, especially when it's being purported by its head moderators.  This is a horrendous way of looking at making a challenging game.

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8 minutes ago, DFA_Thump said:

Tarkov IS ABOUT PVP, they literally force it upon you via the "quests".

That are not only quests in this game, you don't need to do ALL the quests. First quests are not about killing other players - except Friend From The West. And you don't need to play only PvP to achieve something. You can achieve 40 level without playing PvP as your main playstyle. Here's the description from official site:

Quote

Escape from Tarkov is a hardcore and realistic online first-person action RPG/Simulator with MMO features and a story-driven walkthrough.

Of course, PvP in Tarkov exists, but it's not NECESARRY. And it's not the CORE. There's no one proper gameplay, if someone likes to clear whole map and lobby - feel free. But it doesn't mean that the game is about PvP only. There's plenty of different way to play and every way is proper. 

 

+ use proper language, please.

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17 minutes ago, Biala_Mewa said:

That are not only quests in this game, you don't need to do ALL the quests. First quests are not about killing other players - except Friend From The West. And you don't need to play only PvP to achieve something. You can achieve 40 level without playing PvP as your main playstyle. Here's the description from official site:

Of course, PvP in Tarkov exists, but it's not NECESARRY. And it's not the CORE. There's no one proper gameplay, if someone likes to clear whole map and lobby - feel free. But it doesn't mean that the game is about PvP only. There's plenty of different way to play and every way is proper. 

 

+ use proper language, please.

Hiding behind inaccurate (potentially false) advertisement isn't proof of anything other than poor quest and gameplay design.  In addition to this, I need to get up to level 42 in order to expand my stash to level 4, so YES PVP IS REQUIRED.

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9 minutes ago, DFA_Thump said:

Hiding behind inaccurate (potentially false) advertisement isn't proof of anything other than poor quest and gameplay design.  In addition to this, I need to get up to level 42 in order to expand my stash to level 4, so YES PVP IS REQUIRED.

 

+ use proper logic please.

(if I am counting correctly, +/-3 quests) There's 156 quests about bringing some items, putting markers/beacons etc; 38 is about killing Scavs, 21 is about killing other PMC's. Game is still not forcing you to play only PvP. Even for quests 😉 And there's plenty of non-PvP tasks with high XP rewards.

 

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23 minutes ago, Biala_Mewa said:

Tarkov was never said to be balanced. Raids are unpredictable, you shouldn't ever know how many groups or solo players you will meet. That's the point. New players should learn basic mechanics and avoid PvP - avoid hot spots and "crowdy" locations, learn the spawn points and wait sometimes few minutes till other players go away.

Meant to be 'unpredictable' but the spawn points are fixed.. New players get rushed by a chad who spawned 60m away from them and knows exactly where all nearby spawns are.. It's quite hard to avoid.

Also the whole premise of the game is that each player is an experienced private military contractor (presumably ex-special forces). This assumes a certain level of competence and ability to compete against other PMCs. But this simply isn't the case. New players are like civilians who just arrived for day 1 of basic training, and they're put up against Navy Seal teams..

I spent all afternoon/evening playing yesterday and only progressed halfway from level 10 to level 11.

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6 minutes ago, Anzac_Mack said:

Meant to be 'unpredictable' but the spawn points are fixed.. New players get rushed by a chad who spawned 60m away from them and knows exactly where all nearby spawns are.. It's quite hard to avoid.

You can learn their spawns too 😉

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I rarely approve changes that will make life easier for low-level pmc, but this one is good. Damage is Important parameter whitch Is shows your impact In fights. Even If you failed to kill enemy, you need to be rewarded for your Impact. So, I'm for It.

Also, giving additional expirience for killing high-lvl PMC's Is a solid stimul for new players to pvp. You know, newbies often afraid of face-to-face combat...

 

Edited by KaelTheInvoker
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16 minutes ago, Biala_Mewa said:

You can learn their spawns too 😉

Yeahhh let me rush this chad with my iron sights and rubber bullets 🤭

aaaand I'm dead 😏

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1 hour ago, Biala_Mewa said:

(if I am counting correctly, +/-3 quests) There's 156 quests about bringing some items, putting markers/beacons etc; 38 is about killing Scavs, 21 is about killing other PMC's. Game is still not forcing you to play only PvP. Even for quests 😉 And there's plenty of non-PvP tasks with high XP rewards.

 

The fact that they exist is irrelevant. It is HOW they are staggered, and the locations of the "non PVP items" makes this at best a disingenuous point.

Edited by DFA_Thump
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12 minutes ago, DFA_Thump said:

The fact that they exist is irrelevant. It is HOW they are staggered, and the locations of the "non PVP items" makes this at best a disingenuous point.

Agree. I have 3 different low level quests on Customs that aren't explicitly PVP, but they all send me to very dangerous PVP-heavy areas. In addition, they require successful extraction.. (which means running the linear gauntlet of chokepoints to make it to extract).

They're non-PVP quests and I literally can't get them done because of PVP 😐

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