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Lvndmarks Opinion on Dynamic Loot and Game Changes


effektx932
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I dont watch him anymore but I completely agree.

This was a major stepdown on a great part of this game. 
Having LESS loot spread around the map is just less fun. 

It makes people go with less gear. Fight Less. Have less rewards and obviously, slowly risk less.

Most of my friends already stopped playing regularly. I was hoping they see this soon. Theres just NO REASON TO FIGHT. 

And by the way, what do you guys think that happens when someone loots a high valuable? They INSTANTLY extract. Because they MADE IT THE BETTER DECISION. 

This game looks just like a SCAV version of what it was 2 months ago. Simply worse. 

Again: thank god D2R is coming this week. 

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7 minutes ago, peashrek said:

I dont watch him anymore but I completely agree.

This was a major stepdown on a great part of this game. 
Having LESS loot spread around the map is just less fun. 

It makes people go with less gear. Fight Less. Have less rewards and obviously, slowly risk less.

Most of my friends already stopped playing regularly. I was hoping they see this soon. Theres just NO REASON TO FIGHT. 

And by the way, what do you guys think that happens when someone loots a high valuable? They INSTANTLY extract. Because they MADE IT THE BETTER DECISION. 

This game looks just like a SCAV version of what it was 2 months ago. Simply worse. 

Again: thank god D2R is coming this week. 

I completely agree.

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I really like the changes, for me the game is more playable now then ever before, and if its removes pvp netcode abusers like lvndmark then its just a bonus. But D2R is coming so i will be playing that insted, and stalker2 is coming soon also, not soon soon but soonish soon

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Tarkov was never meant to be a combatetive shooter to beginn with.

It was and will become a hardcore shooter, there high valuable loot is rare "and limited". Also Tarkov is kinda realistic.

 

I don´t know, how long Lvndmark is in Tarkov, but after the 1st Titch event back 2019 was a change. Before that, Tarkov was more interessting, because no one used ADAD Spam.

 

BSG will make Tarkov into a shooter THEY want, not some player or streamer want, even if they are the mayority

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I'm sorry but landmark is very wrong, the original gameplay of tarkov was not that of two years ago where there was no weight system, infinite painkillers, meta hk-416 etc... the gameplay before the twich drops was much more slow and reasoned, then the gameplay took a very arcade turn but that was not the final result, it has always been known.
If he thought that the best gameplay was the one where you filled item-case with loot of players from lab he did not understood nothing of what the game wants to be what the original pre drop players want; and if the player base decreases to pre twichdrop levels it's ok, no problem it was like that before and nobody complained

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That was more an exploit than actual gameplay, @jacks126, that one with the ICase  I myself had 3 times back at the time Nightraids on Shorelin with the Junkbox. I only did these, because i saw it from some streamer. 

It was a great change, that we can´t bring these cases in a Raid. Back at 2017-18, literally no one would use that, because they would never thought, they could use that. Some maybe yeah, but not the vast mayority of the 30k Player.

 

We have now, what.... around 350k or so. And Nikita sillt want to develope his vision for the 5k from the very beginning.

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If you think their best bet is to bring the game away from what brought it massive amounts of popularity then at the end of the day you will find yourself with a dead game and a limited player base.

Every single person I know that plays Tarkov besides 3 people have all stopped playing the game entirely. Quite literally 4 of them are playing Sea of Thieves. 8 of them went back to playing DayZ. Another whole group is jumping around to multiple different other games.

He is 100% correct that there has been a big reduction in the player base. I hate to break this to you, but you are not the majority of players.

When I started playing Tarkov I quite literally saw it as a more advanced version of DayZ. Modern day technology and combat mechanics. Far more advanced healing. They took out the annoying part of DayZ which was running from another side of the map or constant respawn to get the spawn you want.

You came into a map and fought for the good loot. The players that contested you either died and lost their things to you....or you died and lost your gear to them. That is what made this game engaging.

What do you want this game to be exactly? Do expect the developers to make it so we all just run around and loot and leave? Do you really find that fun and engaging?

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35 minutes ago, Hijack_Dallas said:

It was and will become a hardcore shooter

the word "hardcore" means following to different types of ppl:

ESL / CS players -> a headshot heavy difficult to aim game

Mil Sim players -> slow, tactical/camping gameplay with fast time to kill

Survival players -> very high punishment for dying / lots of grinding for loot

Darksouls players -> difficult to learn and crazy bosses and PVE fights

The funny thing is, even BSG doesnt know what they mean when they say hardcore anymore, so I think we should avoid using it all together.

Tarkov used to be about realism, but yea, that was back in the olden times, when Tarkov was portrayed to even have a "third person camera" to appeal to Arma and DayZ players. Crazy world issnt it?

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56 minutes ago, GeneralBrus said:

the word "hardcore" means following to different types of ppl:

ESL / CS players -> a headshot heavy difficult to aim game

Mil Sim players -> slow, tactical/camping gameplay with fast time to kill

Survival players -> very high punishment for dying / lots of grinding for loot

Darksouls players -> difficult to learn and crazy bosses and PVE fights

The funny thing is, even BSG doesnt know what they mean when they say hardcore anymore, so I think we should avoid using it all together.

Tarkov used to be about realism, but yea, that was back in the olden times, when Tarkov was portrayed to even have a "third person camera" to appeal to Arma and DayZ players. Crazy world issnt it?

There is only so much realism you can put into a game before it no longer becomes a fun past time.

Lets go over what would be truly realistic.

1. The obvious one. When you die you are dead. There is no coming back. You lose everything and have to buy a new game.

2. If you get shot in the arm you can no longer use that arm if it hit center arm aka bone. If you get shot in the leg you are no longer walking. There is no more surgery mid raid...because lets be honest...there is no 30 second surgery. In fact if you make it out alive you will likely not be able to go into another raid for 1-3 months. Also your first initial return to combat leaves you in panic attacks.

3. Your character ages with time. As your character ages his skills start to become worse and worse.

4. There is a chance your character will no longer be able to go into raid due to PTSD and gets honorably discharged.

 

This can go on all day. Fact is there is a line between realism and fun to play. There is a few people who keep pushing the realism button beyond the point where it is no longer fun to play. Nobody plays a game to have a second job. You play a game for entertainment.

Take a moment and realize what industry you are in.

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1 hour ago, Hijack_Dallas said:

We have now, what.... around 350k or so. And Nikita sillt want to develope his vision for the 5k from the very beginning.

Where do you get those numbers? 

And im sorry to tell you, but if they work for profit is very UNLIKELY they will revert changes that brought 90% of the player base, would be the dumbest business decision I have ever heard of. 

Its even more profitable and smart to do hardkov, a spin off that makes everything so hardcore that only 5% of the playerbase will play it. 

It makes absolutely no sense lol, what kind of world you guys live in? 

a company should not KILL its revenue. At least it should'nt.

This is a game for us. Its their job. 

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24 minutes ago, peashrek said:

Where do you get those numbers? 

And im sorry to tell you, but if they work for profit is very UNLIKELY they will revert changes that brought 90% of the player base, would be the dumbest business decision I have ever heard of. 

Its even more profitable and smart to do hardkov, a spin off that makes everything so hardcore that only 5% of the playerbase will play it. 

It makes absolutely no sense lol, what kind of world you guys live in? 

a company should not KILL his revenue. At least it shouldnt. This is a game for us. Its their job. 

it's an anecdote, so don't take it as absolute truth, but before the 2019 twich drops nikita said that if there were more than 10k simultaneous players during that time the servers would explode; and contemporary players if I'm not mistaken they were more than 100k ... also the developers never wanted to make the new super fps that anyone would have wanted to play, but a game that nikita wanted to play and that didn't exist, and when they finally realized that the game was too arcade they took action and are continuing , otherwise it would not make sense why have they continued to increase the relevance of the weight system, to nerf the stamina and strength, to make the insurance of weapons more and more expensive with so many attachments and finally inertia that will prevent the cod game style.

for those who want an arcade experience they are doing the arena, but escape from tarkov is not for those who want the thrill of continuous firefight

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21 minutes ago, jacks126 said:

it's an anecdote, so don't take it as absolute truth, but before the 2019 twich drops nikita said that if there were more than 10k simultaneous players during that time the servers would explode; and contemporary players if I'm not mistaken they were more than 100k ... also the developers never wanted to make the new super fps that anyone would have wanted to play, but a game that nikita wanted to play and that didn't exist, and when they finally realized that the game was too arcade they took action and are continuing , otherwise it would not make sense why have they continued to increase the relevance of the weight system, to nerf the stamina and strength, to make the insurance of weapons more and more expensive with so many attachments and finally inertia that will prevent the cod game style.

for those who want an arcade experience they are doing the arena, but escape from tarkov is not for those who want the thrill of continuous firefight

yeah man. In business people change their minds. They do things based on experience and testing. 

I understand they testing it all. What I simply laugh at is thinking a COMPANY is driven by some random desire spoke about years ago and not results. I also dont think inertia and other NERFS are breaking the game. Again: they are TESTING. 

But consider this: they are making this game to sell it to generate revenue. To do that they need to ensure that player base keeps growing.

And based on my experience atm, this test on dynamic loot failed HARD. At least on the servers I play, the number of players drastically dropped day after day affter this loot nerf.

Want it or nah, loot is a BIG part of this game - specially considering what people want to do and see. You can simply check what kind of videos bring more views on youtube and you will note that PROFIT is almost always in the thumbnail and/or title of the most viewed ones. 

This isnt a shooter. This isnt a looter. Its something in the middle and they did break the balance for a lot of people. 

 

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4 minutes ago, peashrek said:

And based on my experience atm, this test on dynamic loot failed HARD.

on the contrary, now the loot system makes sense, before I could predict with almost absolute certainty where the players went on custom or on shoreline, it was an absolute bore to wait 25 minutes to enter dorms because there were chads that threw 25 grenades, emptied 80 magazines with their super meta hk and their impossible parkour, now instead people go around the map looking for loot not only in the usual 3 places, but in every ravine, you no longer fight in the usual 3 places but in the whole map. and not always with hk without recoil, slick and altyn but maybe with armor class 4, a half mod ak with ps and a grenade and your aim will be to be able to extract an alkaly that you need for a mission or a craft and to stop you there it will be a team that is better to try to avoid than to hold W + shift and fight.

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I vill say this.. I've got 3000 hours on my account. During that time I vas in love vith the game and enjoyed every bit of it. Even vith all those flavs of the game I still enjoyed it. Today, hovever vith the nev dynamic loot I came up to the conclusion that it's not longer vorth to play the game anymore... You can literally run up to 10 different places to see a loot vorth of 100-200k, so you can at the end of the raid die by: a cheater, a sus player, a chad a rat or extract camper (forgot to add a game bugs like desync and othe rstupid poo).

Back in the days vhen I Sucked balls in the game I thought that dynamic loot vould change the game for the better but nov I do realize I vas vrong. It doesn't make any sense to me to play the game anymore.

I got my vipe a little bit sooner than you guys vill :) See you in the next vipe.

https://streamable.com/9c6z9a

You have right to disagree vith me but that's the opinion of a player vho has 3000 hours played.

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50 minutes ago, jacks126 said:

it's an anecdote, so don't take it as absolute truth, but before the 2019 twich drops nikita said that if there were more than 10k simultaneous players during that time the servers would explode; and contemporary players if I'm not mistaken they were more than 100k ... also the developers never wanted to make the new super fps that anyone would have wanted to play, but a game that nikita wanted to play and that didn't exist, and when they finally realized that the game was too arcade they took action and are continuing , otherwise it would not make sense why have they continued to increase the relevance of the weight system, to nerf the stamina and strength, to make the insurance of weapons more and more expensive with so many attachments and finally inertia that will prevent the cod game style.

for those who want an arcade experience they are doing the arena, but escape from tarkov is not for those who want the thrill of continuous firefight

Can you take a step back and see what those changes influence.

Inertia - Actually adds to the combat experience.

Weight System - I am confused what you even mean here. I can carry more things now than before.

Nerf to Stamina and Strength - Again adds to combat.

Insurance to Weapons - Not sure what this has to do with anything

Fact is none of these changes are for survival. They are all in reference to making combat more interactive. Do you think inertia is built into the game to help survival or looting become more interactive?

 

This is a PvP game. Without PvP this game looses its appeal to a majority of players.

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15 minutes ago, jacks126 said:

on the contrary, now the loot system makes sense, before I could predict with almost absolute certainty where the players went on custom or on shoreline, it was an absolute bore to wait 25 minutes to enter dorms because there were chads that threw 25 grenades, emptied 80 magazines with their super meta hk and their impossible parkour, now instead people go around the map looking for loot not only in the usual 3 places, but in every ravine, you no longer fight in the usual 3 places but in the whole map. and not always with hk without recoil, slick and altyn but maybe with armor class 4, a half mod ak with ps and a grenade and your aim will be to be able to extract an alkaly that you need for a mission or a craft and to stop you there it will be a team that is better to try to avoid than to hold W + shift and fight.

Makes sense to the dead SAM servers. 

Yeah, it sure does mate. All 9 players that are currently playing on these servers are enjoying. Or you didnt notice a MASSIVE drop of players? I mean, nearly every streamer that looks for PVP is playing on the same server due to low population on theirs regardless of their ping. 

And yes. You should be afraid to enter a hotspot that holds high valuable loot. Yes, that place should be highly contested and YES, players that are AFRAID of doing that kind of pvp should wait in bushes like they enjoy playing. If you are afraid of chads, you are right I used to be too. And I even killed some with scavs and low tier ammo/guns, making my experience awesome - not because I killed a player, but a prepared one. 

Having loot spread all over wont make the SAME number of fights happen, it will make most of them never exist. 

But hey, it makes sense, now its so rare to find worthy loot that players are quitting, but who cares, it makes sense. Just ignore that your PMC was part of 3 different gun fights, took about 5 shots in different places in his body but since he had some injectors and stopped the bleeding, he's 100% again. Now you can loot drawers without the fear of geared players - because they aren't playing anymore. 

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10 minutes ago, jacks126 said:

on the contrary, now the loot system makes sense, before I could predict with almost absolute certainty where the players went on custom or on shoreline, it was an absolute bore to wait 25 minutes to enter dorms because there were chads that threw 25 grenades, emptied 80 magazines with their super meta hk and their impossible parkour, now instead people go around the map looking for loot not only in the usual 3 places, but in every ravine, you no longer fight in the usual 3 places but in the whole map. and not always with hk without recoil, slick and altyn but maybe with armor class 4, a half mod ak with ps and a grenade and your aim will be to be able to extract an alkaly that you need for a mission or a craft and to stop you there it will be a team that is better to try to avoid than to hold W + shift and fight.

The only place in dorms that had good loot was marked room. From my experience if you do 10 raids hitting marked room. Then did 10 raids hitting Fortress, Crack House, and Garage you would get significantly more loot the 2nd time around.

Also I rarely see any "Mega Chads" on any maps outside of Labs or Reserve. I have fought countless times in Dorms and 80 mags and 25 grenades is super dramatic.

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1 hour ago, effektx932 said:

There is only so much realism you can put into a game before it no longer becomes a fun past time

Sure. I think giving people a haptic feedback suit where it'll actually put a bullet hole in them when they're shot in the game probably wouldn't be fun for most. But overall that point is going to be very different for a lot of people, and this was supposed to be uncompromisingly realistic, but they never delivered an in fact just changed their tune once it got popular and people started complaining about realistic elements once they were in because they followed along, they weren't suckered in by the promise of a uncompromising realistic simulator because of a long history of playing milsim and survival games. They saw a streamer playing something neat and just saw non-stop PVP action and figured that's what the promise of the game was and complained when those original elements grinded up against it.

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They do a lot of money, and now with pockets full, can do the game that he likes.

 

Dont waste their time reading forums. They dont have time to put new maps, or fix bugs, but they can nerf everything every week and troll the playerbase with troll events

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14 minutes ago, TechoverMana said:

Sure. I think giving people a haptic feedback suit where it'll actually put a bullet hole in them when they're shot in the game probably wouldn't be fun for most. But overall that point is going to be very different for a lot of people, and this was supposed to be uncompromisingly realistic, but they never delivered an in fact just changed their tune once it got popular and people started complaining about realistic elements once they were in because they followed along, they weren't suckered in by the promise of a uncompromising realistic simulator because of a long history of playing milsim and survival games. They saw a streamer playing something neat and just saw non-stop PVP action and figured that's what the promise of the game was and complained when those original elements grinded up against it.

Probably wouldnt be fun for MOST? Might want to try wouldn't be fun for anyone. There quite literally is nobody that wants to play a game that puts a bullet hole in them when they are shot.

What you said goes back to realizing this is a VIDEO GAME. If you want so much realism...go join the actual military. You need to realize a game is not real life. It will not replace real life experience. A video game is meant to be entertainment.

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11 minutes ago, effektx932 said:

Probably wouldnt be fun for MOST? Might want to try wouldn't be fun for anyone. There quite literally is nobody that wants to play a game that puts a bullet hole in them when they are shot

I didn't think I'd need to say that it was sarcasm when I say it wouldn't be fun for most, but it was.
 

12 minutes ago, effektx932 said:

If you want so much realism...go join the actual military.

I already did my time.

And if you're so opposed to realism at all, why aren't you just playing COD or Doom or something instead of coming to a game that at least on advertisement said it wanted to be realistic, and then make your complaint that it's realistic. Did you buy DCS and complain that it's too complicated and say planes should be more like Battlefield 4?  I just want them to do what they said when they were talking about an uncompromisingly realistic battle simulator. Yeah, it'll never be a true 1:1 physics simulator, where every biological function down to the neurotransmitters is considered, every photon is simulated to form what you see and the chemicals of gunpowder burning in a cartridge being simulated to give slight variations in performance of individual rounds. It's unnecessary, as well as being not feasible technologically, but there's a lot they can do that'd bring it closer in line with that initial vision, or at least the one they'd advertised, and things that other games have done that I think would be fine changes.

I mean one, cutting helmet protection in half doesn't seem beyond the scope of things, the highest protection a helmet should have is level 3.
Not that I think they'll do it from sunk cost fallacy, but getting rid of CMS kits so you can't just regenerate limbs like it used to be is fine. Make pain meds only take out visual blur but don't let you sprint on broken femurs. Stuff like that makes the game not only more realistic, but also makes the game more tactical and you've got to pick your battles better since the risk in a gun fight drastically increases.


 

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26 minutes ago, TechoverMana said:

I didn't think I'd need to say that it was sarcasm when I say it wouldn't be fun for most, but it was.
 

I already did my time.

And if you're so opposed to realism at all, why aren't you just playing COD or Doom or something instead of coming to a game that at least on advertisement said it wanted to be realistic, and then make your complaint that it's realistic. Did you buy DCS and complain that it's too complicated and say planes should be more like Battlefield 4?  I just want them to do what they said when they were talking about an uncompromisingly realistic battle simulator. Yeah, it'll never be a true 1:1 physics simulator, where every biological function down to the neurotransmitters is considered, every photon is simulated to form what you see and the chemicals of gunpowder burning in a cartridge being simulated to give slight variations in performance of individual rounds. It's unnecessary, as well as being not feasible technologically, but there's a lot they can do that'd bring it closer in line with that initial vision, or at least the one they'd advertised, and things that other games have done that I think would be fine changes.

I mean one, cutting helmet protection in half doesn't seem beyond the scope of things, the highest protection a helmet should have is level 3.
Not that I think they'll do it from sunk cost fallacy, but getting rid of CMS kits so you can't just regenerate limbs like it used to be is fine. Make pain meds only take out visual blur but don't let you sprint on broken femurs. Stuff like that makes the game not only more realistic, but also makes the game more tactical and you've got to pick your battles better since the risk in a gun fight drastically increases.


 

I am not opposed to realism. I love realism, but as I said there is a fine line between realism and fun.

Also a majority of changes we are discussing has absolutely nothing to do with realism. Let me give you a few examples.

1. If I was looking for graphics cards in a post apocalyptic world I am much more likely to find them in a tech or computer store than I am in some random wooden box nowhere near a computer.

2. If I shoot you with a 556x45 FMJ round in the arm....then shoot you with a black tip 556x45 round in the arm. Both are going to do pretty identical damage. The main difference is going to be the black tip is going to go straight through most modern day body armor. In this game the more penetration you have the less damage you do.

There are tons of examples of this.

We discuss the negative effect changing the loot has had on the game, and your reply is "well it is meant to be realistic". That change had nothing to do with realism.

As for your realism....this is exactly what I am talking about. I can black out a players leg with one shot of RIP ammo. It does not remotely sound fun that I am basically done after every fight I have unless I do not get shot at all. This sort of a change leads to a majority of the player base sitting in bushes or corners. Eventually you lose everyone that moves around the map. Then the players sitting in bushes or corners no longer see anyone...they get bored and stop playing. Then you are left with a dead game.

Super simple. Changes like you suggest end with a dead game. This is ALL POINTLESS if there are no players to play the game.

Edited by effektx932
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Weird. Why should I care what some Spoiled person thinks? The oppinions of those "big streamers" are biased. Sure, they find problems the regular People wouldnt find, but they also complain about the lack of content since they Finish the tasks after two weeks because they play 8-12 Hours a Day.

 

I´ve played tarkov enough to have an own Oppinion and I think, the new loot is quite ok. People have to look for stuff again and not rush resort room x and exit after 10 Minutes. (like landmark does most of the time). But yeah, seems like the majority of the playerbase seems to agree that the new loot is bad, since the playercount obviously dropped recently.

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