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Big Uptick in Cheating last few days


effektx932
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Seemed like cheating was almost non existent for the past 3 weeks up until a few days ago.

Started running into a few blatant ESP cheaters, which is pretty usual. Thankfully they still often suck at aiming and still die.

The yesterday I was running a 4 man on Interchange and we ran into extremely blatant Aimbot cheaters. Legit headtapped our entire team in the span of about 1-2 seconds both times while we were completely spread out. As an example of spread out we were off looting different sections. Head taps me coming down escalator from Techlight, immediately head taps our other guy in Texcho and in a split second hits the guy in the back of furniture. All dead before one of us could even call out that we were dead. Then our guy in Raz runs out and the moment his head is shown gets head tapped. He double tapped all of us in the head with 300 Blackout AP. Other guy killed all of us with M855.

All happened on Washington DC server between 10-12 PST.

They really need to integrate a team of admins that load into various servers and maps and just spectate the raid. Give them invisibility, ESP, and remove any sound they make. Let them run around and watch if players are tracking them through the walls. Get notifications if they get headshot. Just instant ban these kids on the spot. Anytime they ban they simply record what happened before the ban and in the ban appeal the support can bring up the evidence against that player.

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Hello! I understand your frustration, but it would require a lot of resources for a team like you suggested to work, EFT doesn't have and it will never have private servers with admins to overwatch, we have to rely on the anti-cheat system to take care of the cheating players and trust me, usually cheaters like you described there do not make it so far into the game.

If you really think you got killed by someone who is cheating, please report them via the in-game button.

 

Good luck in Tarkov!

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Just now, sherifu said:

Hello! I understand your frustration, but it would require a lot of resources for a team like you suggested to work, EFT doesn't have and it will never have private servers with admins to overwatch, we have to rely on the anti-cheat system to take care of the cheating players and trust me, usually cheaters like you described there do not make it so far into the game.

If you really think you got killed by someone who is cheating, please report them via the in-game button.

 

Good luck in Tarkov!

You mean like the ~$1.3 million spent on the youtube series that felt like watching an airsoft tournament? Those kind of resources? And apparently they do make it far because of how little battleeye does to known cheaters in EFT and how easy it is to get a cracked account...

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24 minutes ago, sherifu said:

Hello! I understand your frustration, but it would require a lot of resources for a team like you suggested to work, EFT doesn't have and it will never have private servers with admins to overwatch, we have to rely on the anti-cheat system to take care of the cheating players and trust me, usually cheaters like you described there do not make it so far into the game.

If you really think you got killed by someone who is cheating, please report them via the in-game button.

 

Good luck in Tarkov!

To be completely honest I kind of expect this in Tarkov. Sadly it has gone from a frustration to more of an annoyance that we just have to deal with.

I just think it is important to bring this to the attention of developers when we see an uptick.

I disagree with the fact that this would take a lot of resources. This is something that DayZ really took advantage of. They would find teams of admins who were willing to do the work unpaid. You have them do the work joining random raids. If they see something blatant they submit it to 1 or 2 people you hire who review the video evidence submitted and then ban the person.

You could even have a person who could stream on twitch and do commentary on various raids with a delay. That would probably even pay for the people you hire.

There are a lot of resources you have available to you in a gaming community you are really leaving untapped. You should really better utilize what you have available to you.

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39 minutes ago, poop_chute said:

You mean like the ~$1.3 million spent on the youtube series that felt like watching an airsoft tournament? Those kind of resources? And apparently they do make it far because of how little battleeye does to known cheaters in EFT and how easy it is to get a cracked account...

🤣

34 minutes ago, Kimuri said:

Played 3 games today, 2 out of 3 I got chased down by a nark who knew how to pinpoint my position every time.

I just played a match on Shoreline and observed a PMC running for his life, unlucky for him I was hiding in a bush where he stopped. I killed him, looted his body and then ran and hid in a bush about 100 meters away. I started getting shot at out of nowhere.

Then appears a fully gear player scav that head/eyes me as I was running.

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A subsidiary of BSG likely is selling the cheats. The only way to combat this is to just stop playing the game and never purchase another title from them. 

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7 minutes ago, Wolfens_Razor said:

🤣

I just played a match on Shoreline and observed a PMC running for his life, unlucky for him I was hiding in a bush where he stopped. I killed him, looted his body and then ran and hid in a bush about 100 meters away. I started getting shot at out of nowhere.

Then appears a fully gear player scav that head/eyes me as I was running.

The problem here is just because you are in a bush does not mean you are safe. You said it was a fully geared Scav. He could have got lucky and found a geared PMC with a thermal killed by Sanitar.

Thermals make it incredibly easy to find players hiding in bushes. When you are outside it is extremely hard to judge ESP simply as a result of thermals.

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55 minutes ago, poop_chute said:

You mean like the ~$1.3 million spent on the youtube series that felt like watching an airsoft tournament? Those kind of resources? And apparently they do make it far because of how little battleeye does to known cheaters in EFT and how easy it is to get a cracked account...

Different departments, different budgets, different goals. The goal of PR for example is to draw interest to the game. Without PR, less sales (for example).

There are no complete public figures, but if we go by the last SCAV-event stats, during that event that lasted about 5 days, there were roughly 11 million raids played (each raid being about 60minutes).

Even if BSG hired a team of 100 people to monitor as many raids as possible, that's approximately a total 660 million minutes worth of gameplay to monitor. Even if this team were monitoring 24 hours a day, they would total 12000 hours watched over 5 days. They wouldn't even make a slight dent, that's 0.018181818181818182%.

Monitoring gameplay like this is simply not an effective way to combat cheating.

To combat cheating you need a detection system that identifies what the client does. We already have such a system in place, that is constantly being developed and adapted.

As it is however, it is still not against the law in most countries to cheat in multiplayer games, and very few countries consider cheat development an illegal activity as well.

 

These ideas also have already been considered, and the options have been weighed by people in the business who do this for a living. Some of the ideas from the community have been interesting (like using phone numbers to tie into accounts, something that has been tried in certain countries) but no other method is as effective as BattlEye for EFT at catching cheaters. And every time they come up with a new method of detecting cheats, this starts the clock for the people who work full-time at developing cheat to find a way around the detection. This goes on and on, ad infinitum.

 

5 minutes ago, GrimleyX said:

A subsidiary of BSG likely is selling the cheats. The only way to combat this is to just stop playing the game and never purchase another title from them. 

These are some strong accusations you are making. Care to back them up with substantial evidence?

Since you can't. Avoid spreading speculative, false information.

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2 minutes ago, tobiassolem said:

Different departments, different budgets, different goals. The goal of PR for example is to draw interest to the game. Without PR, less sales (for example).

There are no complete public figures, but if we go by the last SCAV-event stats, during that event that lasted about 5 days, there were roughly 11 million raids played (each raid being about 60minutes).

Even if BSG hired a team of 100 people to monitor as many raids as possible, that's approximately a total 660 million minutes worth of gameplay to monitor. Even if this team were monitoring 24 hours a day, they would total 12000 hours watched over 5 days. They wouldn't even make a slight dent, that's 0.0018181818181818182%.

Monitoring gameplay like this is simply not an effective way to combat cheating.

To combat cheating you need a detection system that identifies what the client does. We already have such a system in place, that is constantly being developed and adapted.

As it is however, it is still not against the law in most countries to cheat in multiplayer games, and very few countries consider cheat development an illegal activity as well.

 

These ideas also have already been considered, and the options have been weighed by people in the business who do this for a living. Some of the ideas from the community have been interesting (like using phone numbers to tie into accounts, something that has been tried in certain countries) but no other method is as effective as BattlEye for EFT at catching cheaters. And every time they come up with a new method of detecting cheats, this starts the clock for the people who work full-time at developing cheat to find a way around the detection. This goes on and on, ad infinitum.

 

See what you are missing here is the value in having people in place and then working in connection with the anti cheat to better develop the system.

Think about it this way.

Say you have someone see a blatant cheater. That person submits the video evidence. It gets confirmed and the player gets banned.

Now the team that is developing the overall anti-cheat can evaluate how their system missed this player. They will have scores of people to evaluate and once you start building up groups of people you can evaluate similarities.

So this sort of system in place helps from a place of actually banning players cheating, but ALSO helping to better develop the existing anti-cheat because they see players the anti-cheat is not catching.

You cannot tell me that is not extremely valuable.

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11 minutes ago, effektx932 said:

The problem here is just because you are in a bush does not mean you are safe. You said it was a fully geared Scav. He could have got lucky and found a geared PMC with a thermal killed by Sanitar.

Thermals make it incredibly easy to find players hiding in bushes. When you are outside it is extremely hard to judge ESP simply as a result of thermals.

The scav was walking around like he was invincible murdering PMCs. Lol.

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6 minutes ago, effektx932 said:

See what you are missing here is the value in having people in place and then working in connection with the anti cheat to better develop the system.

Think about it this way.

Say you have someone see a blatant cheater. That person submits the video evidence. It gets confirmed and the player gets banned.

Now the team that is developing the overall anti-cheat can evaluate how their system missed this player. They will have scores of people to evaluate and once you start building up groups of people you can evaluate similarities.

So this sort of system in place helps from a place of actually banning players cheating, but ALSO helping to better develop the existing anti-cheat because they see players the anti-cheat is not catching.

You cannot tell me that is not extremely valuable.

We already have an effective system for dealing with "blatant cheaters", player reports.

They are in fact working very well, most of the advantages you speak of are resolved through them.

And in a way it's more reliable than the subjective perspective of one "admin".

 

Think of it like this. Imagine a cheater, let's call him Mr.Cheater.

Mr.Cheater plays ~50 raids in one night, killing approximately 5 players on average per raid.

Let's be cautious and speculate that only 20% of the kills are reported by those who got killed by him. Over time, that's still likely a hundred of reports. Certainly grounds for BE to look into.

 

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10 minutes ago, tobiassolem said:

We already have an effective system for dealing with "blatant cheaters", player reports.

They are in fact working very well, most of the advantages you speak of are resolved through them.

And in a way it's more reliable than the subjective perspective of one "admin".

 

Think of it like this. Imagine a cheater, let's call him Mr.Cheater.

Mr.Cheater plays ~50 raids in one night, killing approximately 5 players on average per raid.

Let's be cautious and speculate that only 20% of the kills are reported by those who got killed by him. Over time, that's still likely a hundred of reports. Certainly grounds for BE to look into.

 

props for standing by your system but are they really working that well? your team has been so cagey about releasing any sort of information in any regards to anything in this game, but specifically cheating that seems to be running rampant gets crickets. we've seen 1 post about ~30,000 cheaters banned a few months ago, but it seems as though the evil horde has refilled it's ranks with more than enough to combat your 'effective system'. how about you shed some light into the process of what happens when I right click report player with 0 context or insight into what I experienced? It goes into the big box of other reports and maybe a pattern is caught with a specific pattern?

Edited by poop_chute
mistype
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17 minutes ago, tobiassolem said:

We already have an effective system for dealing with "blatant cheaters", player reports.

They are in fact working very well, most of the advantages you speak of are resolved through them.

And in a way it's more reliable than the subjective perspective of one "admin".

 

Think of it like this. Imagine a cheater, let's call him Mr.Cheater.

Mr.Cheater plays ~50 raids in one night, killing approximately 5 players on average per raid.

Let's be cautious and speculate that only 20% of the kills are reported by those who got killed by him. Over time, that's still likely a hundred of reports. Certainly grounds for BE to look into.

 

Lets be honest player reports especially on Tarkov tend to be more misreported than any single game.

Before Tarkov I quite literally NEVER aimed for the head. There is a multitude of reasons for this, but Tarkov really presses players to push towards developing headshot skills.

I think quite a lot of just very skilled players get reported constantly. I can't even imagine how many times players like Lvndmark are falsely reported as a cheater in even a given week.

So that is a lot of false positives compared to catching actual cheaters. Plus they are much less likely to catch ESP cheaters than players can since it is very hard to determine the difference between prediction and ESP. It is extremely easy to see ESP when you can see them tracking you though walls.

7 minutes ago, poop_chute said:

props for standing by your system but are they really working that well? your team has been so cagey about releasing any sort of information in any regards to anything in this game, but specifically cheating that seems to be running rampant gets crickets. we've seen 1 post about ~30,000 cheaters banned a few months ago, but it seems as though the evil horde has refilled it's ranks with more than enough to combat your 'effective system'. how about you shed some light into the process of what happens when I right click report player with 0 context or insight into what I experienced? It goes into the big box of other reports and maybe a pattern is caught with a specific pattern?

I disagree with you here. The more information they provide us the more information the cheaters have of the systems they have in place. This makes it easier for the cheaters to find work arounds.

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4 minutes ago, poop_chute said:

props for standing by your system but are they really working that well? your team has been so cagey about releasing any sort of information in any regards to anything in this game, but specifically cheating that seems to be running rampant gets crickets. we've seen 1 post about ~30,000 cheaters banned a few months ago, but it seems as though the evil horde has refilled it's ranks with more than enough to combat your 'effective system'. how about you shed some light into the process of what happens when I right click report player with 0 context or insight into what I experienced? It goes into the big box of other reports and maybe a pattern is caught with a specific pattern?

There's a reason why we are being "cagey" about the details of the anti-cheat system or the processes around them. That reason is that we do not wish to give cheat developers or cheaters any insight into the process for taking them down.

The reports help us get rid of more cheaters, that should be enough for most players. No?

 

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7 minutes ago, poop_chute said:

props for standing by your system but are they really working that well? your team has been so cagey about releasing any sort of information in any regards to anything in this game, but specifically cheating that seems to be running rampant gets crickets. we've seen 1 post about ~30,000 cheaters banned a few months ago, but it seems as though the evil horde has refilled it's ranks with more than enough to combat your 'effective system'. how about you shed some light into the process of what happens when I right click report player with 0 context or insight into what I experienced? It goes into the big box of other reports and maybe a pattern is caught with a specific pattern?

😆

8 minutes ago, poop_chute said:

props for standing by your system but are they really working that well? your team has been so cagey about releasing any sort of information in any regards to anything in this game, but specifically cheating that seems to be running rampant gets crickets. we've seen 1 post about ~30,000 cheaters banned a few months ago, but it seems as though the evil horde has refilled it's ranks with more than enough to combat your 'effective system'. how about you shed some light into the process of what happens when I right click report player with 0 context or insight into what I experienced? It goes into the big box of other reports and maybe a pattern is caught with a specific pattern?

Maybe they offer a special discount to the ones that get reported? 😂

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3 minutes ago, effektx932 said:

Lets be honest player reports especially on Tarkov tend to be more misreported than any single game.

Yes, but there are ways to filter this. Nikita mentioned an example:

One player (that stood out & that they taked a look at in the initial phases of testing the system) reported every single player that killed him. 100%, every time this player died, he would report the killer as a cheater.

Nikita said that players that show this type behaviour are simply filtered away out of the system.

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Just now, tobiassolem said:

There's a reason why we are being "cagey" about the details of the anti-cheat system or the processes around them. That reason is that we do not wish to give cheat developers or cheaters any insight into the process for taking them down.

The reports help us get rid of more cheaters, that should be enough for most players. No?

 

if it were effective I may take that hook line and sinker, but I'm prone to lean the other way as I experience suspect things fairly frequently and it's easiest for me to just say 'oop that's a cheater' instead of being confident that bsg has a handle on the situation. I don't need the line by line code, just maybe some acknowledgement that the battle is being fought and not just 2737237229737x reports being submitted randomly daily and a few actually get attention and action.

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1 minute ago, poop_chute said:

it's easiest for me to just say 'oop that's a cheater' instead of being confident that bsg has a handle on the situation

That's your prerogative. You are entitled to have that opinion of course!

What I'm telling you is that we are being very successful at banning cheaters.

However, I am also telling you that it's legally very difficult for such victories to actually be lasting, which is why it ebbs and flows. The fact is though that we're banning them.

Unfortunately though, they are still able to do some damage. :( It is very frustrating for us.

 

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6 minutes ago, tobiassolem said:

Yes, but there are ways to filter this. Nikita mentioned an example:

One player (that stood out & that they taked a look at in the initial phases of testing the system) reported every single player that killed him. 100%, every time this player died, he would report the killer as a cheater.

Nikita said that players that show this type behaviour are simply filtered away out of the system.

I started reporting everyone. Just because, I don't know anymore who is cheating and who isn't. That's how common it is.

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1 minute ago, Wolfens_Razor said:

I started reporting everyone. Just because, I don't know anymore who is cheating and who isn't. That's how common it is.

So maybe it was you? ;)

 

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1 minute ago, tobiassolem said:

So maybe it was you? ;)

 

🤣 Yeah, maybe. I appreciate the work you are doing to ban these people that ruin the game. It's just not enough lately. Maybe next wipe some things will be sorted out.

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2 minutes ago, tobiassolem said:

That's your prerogative. You are entitled to have that opinion of course!

What I'm telling you is that we are being very successful at banning cheaters.

However, I am also telling you that it's legally very difficult for such victories to actually be lasting, which is why it ebbs and flows. The fact is though that we're banning them.

Unfortunately though, they are still able to do some damage. :( It is very frustrating for us.

 

it's not my favorite prerogative to have, but fair point. I believe you'd get a significant sigh of relief from the community if there was some sort of additional effort to tack onto the current system, since an in-game admin/moderator team seems too resource intensive, why not start the conversation of battle-eye doing hardware bans? I'm pretty sure the EUL gaming video that interviewed a hacker was pretty clear that there are no lasting repercussions to cheaters, particularly repeat offenders, and that battle eye wasn't effective at all.

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