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Surv12 & CMS kit - Damage Interruption


Loopaguz
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Hello!

I have only seen this suggestion twice without any replies or feedback in return so I am now writing a full extension on the matter.

For a long time I have wondered why we do not have damage interruption on Surv12 and CMS kits.

How would this look and feel?
Taking any damage will interrupt the procedure of the kits and give you a faster chance to fight back instead of merely sitting there trying to glue your limbs back together and just taking one shot after the next.

Execution & Gameplay - Scenarios
I do believe that this scenario can be done in different ways, you can for instance drop the kit if you take a shot. Scavs can for instance taunt and laugh at you if they surprise you sewing your limbs back together, give you the finger och wave and do a silly voice line at you before they shoot you.

The Problem - The timings and Loss of control / Interaction with the game
The problem with having the healing procedure going as you are taking shots takes away the control from the player to engage and have control of the game. I believe that locking the player in a loop of healing procedure for 20 seconds is too much. I believe that many players do not know about the healing cancel mechanic whatsoever. The healing cancellation time is fine I believe when it comes to time to cancel the healing procedure. But the effect of cancelling or healing should be cancelled even faster if you do take a shot from an enemy when using the healing kits.

Motivation
The motivation for this is that you give the player a feeling of control to be able to fight back faster and retaliate against danger. The matter of loss of control for players within games is no less than tilting and creates alot of frustration. Looking into the healing system, one of the biggest points of interests for me was the healing kits timings and gameplay of those. I can see that having a quicker interrupt upon taking damage can easily solve the slow/stupid/clumsy/loss of control feeling of being in a helpless and useless state for too long.

Mindset Design & Thoughts
It is far too easy to fall into the trap as a developer of saying working as intended, or we already are aware of this issue without really having looked deeper into the matter, in fear of looking incompetent or simply painting a picture of we know it all.

Conclusion
If all this is by design, I warmly recommend to take my feedback and suggestion into account, to have a faster interruption upon taking damage using the Surv12 and CMS kits. If that means dropping the kits or simply animation cancel and put the kits away faster is a balance question. However, the genuine direction here would be to drop the kit above the current state how it is today, cancel animation or animation still going while taking damage.


Best regards,
Idea Rig






 

q267rpy0ipe41.jpg

Edited by Loopaguz
Fixed some missed spelling errors.
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You know, I like this idea.  What I think would make sense would be dropping it -AND- if you are equipped with a pistol, it could do an automatic animation to pull it out to return fire at someone.  That is what would make sense to me.  But maybe make the draw time for a weapon being automatically a little slower than if you interrupt and press a button yourself.  So this automatic weapon pulling would only happen if you were really caught with your pants down, ya know what I'm saying?  Anyways, thanks for sharing (I haven't seen this topic before, so I'm genuinely interested). 

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2 hours ago, Loopaguz said:

Hello!

I have only seen this suggestion twice without any replies or feedback in return so I am now writing a full extension on the matter.

For a long time I have wondered why we do not have damage interruption on Surv12 and CMS kits.

How would this look and feel?
Taking any damage will interrupt the procedure of the kits and give you a faster chance to fight back instead of merely sitting there trying to glue your limbs back together and just taking one shot after the next.

Execution & Gameplay - Scenarios
I do believe that this scenario can be done in different ways, you can for instance drop the kit if you take a shot. Scavs can for instance taunt and laugh at you if they surprise you sewing your limbs back together, give you the finger och wave and do a silly voice line at you before they shoot you.

The Problem - The timings and Loss of control / Interaction with the game
The problem with having the healing procedure going as you are taking shots takes away the control from the player to engage and have control of the game. I believe that locking the player in a loop of healing procedure for 20 seconds is too much. I believe that many players do not know about the healing cancel mechanic whatsoever. The healing cancellation time is fine I believe when it comes to time to cancel the healing procedure. But the effect of cancelling or healing should be cancelled even faster if you do take a shot from an enemy when using the healing kits.

Motivation
The motivation for this is that you give the player a feeling of control to be able to fight back faster and retaliate against danger. The matter of loss of control for players within games is no less than tilting and creates alot of frustration. Looking into the healing system, one of the biggest points of interests for me was the healing kits timings and gameplay of those. I can see that having a quicker interrupt upon taking damage can easily solve the slow/stupid/clumsy/loss of control feeling of being in a helpless and useless state for too long.

Mindset Design & Thoughts
It is far too easy to fall into the trap as a developer of saying working as intended, or we already are aware of this issue without really having looked deeper into the matter, in fear of looking incompetent or simply painting a picture of we know it all.

Conclusion
If all this is by design, I warmly recommend to take my feedback and suggestion into account, to have a faster interruption upon taking damage using the Surv12 and CMS kits. If that means dropping the kits or simply animation cancel and put the kits away faster is a balance question. However, the genuine direction here would be to drop the kit above the current state how it is today, cancel animation or animation still going while taking damage.


Best regards,
Idea Rig






 

q267rpy0ipe41.jpg

i mean you can cancel it. but i feel like you should be able to quickly drop it instead of having to button it back up and put it away. it should fall to the floor if you cancel it that way you can fight

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I can understand that no one likes to be caught while "stuck" in an animation loop. However, for such a powerful and involved healing action, should we expect there to be little to no downsides regarding its length of time?

If a person is knee-deep in sewing his guts back together, is that something we'd expect him to be able to "instantly" pivot away from mid-process and *BING* go right into battle ready mode?

For this reason, I can appreciate the gameplay trade-off it currently presents to the player. I think the current dilemma is a solid design decision.

That said, to borrow from OP, what if the tradeoff were to go something like this?

  • Full surgery is still an uninterrupted ~20 seconds.
  • If the player chooses to cancel the process, he is able to transition to his weapon at a quicker rate (ie no more tiddying up the bag and carefully fastening the clips back) BUT! with the downside that he will immediately revert to his prior wounded state AND his next surgery on that part will take ~40 seconds and sustain a more severe max health penalty. 
  • Maybe a certain amount of "spread damage" would be applied to other body parts as well? Again, just to drive home that it's generally NOT a good idea to stop mid surgery.

Thoughts?

 

 

Edited by Spectator6
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16 minutes ago, Spectator6 said:

I can understand that no one likes to be caught while "stuck" in an animation loop. However, for such a powerful and involved healing action, should we expect there to be little to no downsides regarding its length of time?

If a person is knee-deep in sewing his guts back together, is that something we'd expect him to be able to "instantly" pivot away from mid-process and *BING* go right into battle ready mode?

For this reason, I can appreciate the gameplay trade-off it currently presents to the player. I think the current dilemma is a solid design decision.

That said, to borrow from OP, what if the tradeoff were to go something like this?

  • Full surgery is still an uninterrupted ~20 seconds.
  • If the player chooses to cancel the process, he is able to transition to his weapon at a quicker rate (ie no more tiddying up the bag and carefully fastening the clips back) BUT! with the downside that he will immediately revert to his prior wounded state AND his next surgery on that part will take ~40 seconds and sustain a more severe max health penalty. 
  • Maybe a certain amount of "spread damage" would be applied to other body parts as well? Again, just to drive home that it's generally NOT a good idea to stop mid surgery.

Thoughts?

 

 

Any interruption should have consequences. 

I would suggest if you cancel - than cms is dropped on the ground. 

Current version is very fine in my opinion. Tho we are still waiting for advanced medical system where this is gonna become more harder. 

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9 hours ago, Spectator6 said:

 

9 hours ago, Spectator6 said:

I can understand that no one likes to be caught while "stuck" in an animation loop. However, for such a powerful and involved healing action, should we expect there to be little to no downsides regarding its length of time?

If a person is knee-deep in sewing his guts back together, is that something we'd expect him to be able to "instantly" pivot away from mid-process and *BING* go right into battle ready mode?

For this reason, I can appreciate the gameplay trade-off it currently presents to the player. I think the current dilemma is a solid design decision.

That said, to borrow from OP, what if the tradeoff were to go something like this?

  • Full surgery is still an uninterrupted ~20 seconds.
  • If the player chooses to cancel the process, he is able to transition to his weapon at a quicker rate (ie no more tiddying up the bag and carefully fastening the clips back) BUT! with the downside that he will immediately revert to his prior wounded state AND his next surgery on that part will take ~40 seconds and sustain a more severe max health penalty. 
  • Maybe a certain amount of "spread damage" would be applied to other body parts as well? Again, just to drive home that it's generally NOT a good idea to stop mid surgery.

Thoughts?
 

Hello! Yes, many thoughts!

I like what you bring to the table here! And No, I would like to make things clear that I would not like to instantly be able to shoot right away. But definitely not have a scenario where you simple sit there smiling helpless and watch your execution.


The Trade-off
I really like the fact that if the player is interrupted, you should be able to respond quicker... the penalty for doing so is also applied, it will open up the wound you have on going, resulting in a light or heavy bleed depending on severity of the damage of that limb. (If the limb have been blacked out before for instance and you are in yet another state of trying to patch it up, interruption of damage there would result in a heavy open wound instead of a light one.)

The most crucial thing here is the balance of the control being taken from the player and if anything does happen during the surgery time and you simply can not respond or take control again, that is when the frustration rises and basically gives the players a robbed off feeling.


Approach
The approach to all of this is to balance it out. Damage taken or interruption in tight timings and scenarios should be looked at closer I believe. I would rather die with a nice and honest try of dropping my survival kit and be able to take up a pistol or gun to retaliate than sitting for a couple of seconds putting my kit back together and in my bag again while receiving fire and just looking helplessly at the whole scenario, that is my point.


Penalty
I like the idea of getting some sort of aoe/spread damage stopping mid surgery, or receiving a dizzy pain effect applied to the limbs closest of the one in surgery procedure. I can also see that having been caught with your pants down you still have a chance for input and action and take control of the situation at hand but at a cost. I can truly see how this is applied in game and how the players react to all of this in the future, it is a far better alternative that what we have today.


Conclusion - Gameplay / Design
I am certain of the scenario players do not want. And that is to sit still watching an open execution basically. As of now, the way things are and the way things go down is a fine line of the loss of control and input taken away from players who wants to defend themselves. Afterall, I believe it is crucial from a Game Design perspective to be able to give the player a chance in a scenario like this to respond to what is happening. The way how this is done and the approach to this is something we have discussed today and have good examples of here.


Thanks!

Edited by Loopaguz
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