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Magor57

Why should we not KoS

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Magor57

Hi, I played alot of DayZ and there were a lot of reasons why not to kill a player (besides helping him, just for the "good hero feeling"). So you could either give him some suplies, cloting or like that, which was nice, but overall, kinda "meh". Then, you could break someones legs. Destroy his stuff by shooting once in his backpack. Handcuff him. Restrict his vision by puting a bag over head. You could work together to overcome bigger, hostile groups, but since you can start with your friends at the same place, this is not going to be one of the reasons why not to kill other people.

So far the only thing I can consider to do with other player is KoS and take his stuff, or try to rob him and let go alive. I would like to know reasons why not to kill other players. Reasons that benefit me, my character in game, or give me some advantages, anything. Like - Reasons why to kill everyone you can: Loot, Gear, the feeling of superiority, the feeling of "I won, I killed him".

Reasonw why not to kill everyone you can? I mean, anything about the reputation system? Getting to some places you can go only with 2 players (aka splinter cell high reach ledges). Or imagine this. A group of 5 meets a group of 5. Interestingly, noone fired a bullet. Everyone waved (can't imagine this happening) and greeted the other group. What now? Trade some items? Why? We can kill em and take ALL the items. I may have this wrong or have forgotten about something, but so far this seems to me more like really hardcore shooter (with the adition of medicine, food and so on). What is the reason for me NOT to kill everyone outside my group? In DayZ, you could make them your slave, torture them, feed them worms, cripple their legs and watch them crawl for help, stuff like that.

PS: I am not a sadistic person. If DayZ offers me a reputation system that has benefits while on the "good side of Karma", I will play as the nicest player on server. It's only that there was just so little good things to do to other players (fix their legs, feed, bandage) and so many neggative things (handcuff, feed bad food, give bad blood transfusion, blindfold, cripple, steal things while letting them live, burn them in a fire, skin them, eat them, push off a building, inprison-lockpicks and soooo on....)

I don't know, if I can stitch a players bullethole on the back, which he cannot reach, I will be friendly as hell just to get someone to stitch me up. If I can't inject myself or fix my fractures with broken hands, I will be friendly and beg for help. If I can break someones legs and hands so they cant walk and shoot, I will do it with devilish laughter, but I would like to know all these - possitive and neggative - things to do with others. Otherwise, after a few hours and some experiences, it's just point and shoot, I am affraid :(

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Keza

Plain and simple: mission comes first!

Big question: what exactly is the mission?

options:

  1. Looting adds weight...
  2. you can only carry one instance of each type weapon, so you must choose...
Edited by Keza

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Magor57

Great. Somehow I can't see any reasons why not to kill others, or what to do with other players. All I see is one reason why not to carry too much stuff and one reason why to consider your gear before raid. Not even remotly related

I just figured one of the biggest reasons why not to kill on sight. You destroy the gear you so much want, one of the main reasons for the kill in the first place

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FWR

@Magor57 If there will be more than one exit route in raid mission and enough time to evade other players.
Then KoS will be not best. Anyway, good recon is best way to decide what you should do as team or individual.
Going for firefight without any advantage on opponent is fatal.

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Cotty

Shooting will give away your position to anyone in the area.

Thing like shooting will bring scav's to the area. That could make the mission harder. Remember Scav got nothing to loss hunting you down.

You could get info of them as long as you do it in a safe way. Because they might KoS you.

If you attack a group you have to kill them all. Or they spend the rest of that mission hunting you and trying to kill you. That could stop you from doing what you are there to do.

Shooting someone in the street be the easy part. Getting to the body to loot it be the hard part. Who knows if anyone is watching the body. His friend or just someone passing by. If he is a easy kill in the middle of the road. You be a easy kill in the middle of the road, when you go to the body to get the loot. You do not have all day. So you might not have the time to scout about before you have to leave or go for the loot. 

You don't know who you are shooting at. Could be some MLG players. Who might come after you for trying to kill them.

You could waist ammo you need later on someone that not a threat.

KoS means that it one less person to shoot at you. But if they are a easy kill I don't think they be much of a threat. So you are giving your location away for nothing.

Like LiveAlexios said going in to a firefight with out advantage on the opponents is fatal. If you do not have all the info on what going on in the area you could be putting yourself in a trap or bad place.

 

 

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Keza
4 hours ago, Magor57 said:

Great. Somehow I can't see any reasons why not to kill others, or what to do with other players. All I see is one reason why not to carry too much stuff and one reason why to consider your gear before raid. Not even remotly related

I just figured one of the biggest reasons why not to kill on sight. You destroy the gear you so much want, one of the main reasons for the kill in the first place

I think you misunderstood me. My reason not to KoS is that mission comes first. Like others said: you do not know what you get yourself into and might endanger the mission.

My two options were intended as example. The last one not when you prpeare for the raid, but during the raid. You van only have one weapon, so when you kill someone you must be sure that weapkn is better and you want it because you replace your current weapon. But as I said it is an example.

Sure you can still KoS and then check his gear to see if it is of interest to you. But then the other remarks come into play: you most likely alarmed others, most notably the scavs.

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Semper

Ello,

Not sure if we are talking abaut DayZ here, but to be honest.. we live in the time you cant trust no one.

Watch on youtube, all DayZ movies there are trolls that KOS.... and to counter KOS is KOS.
And my days in dayz are also 1 day of looting.. going to bambi zone to help new players.. you drop food but as soon as they see the annimation that you are watching gear they bash you in the head and steal your stuff...

In what world do we live if we cant even trust Bambi's.

But to go back to the game, i dont really readed what the area will be, but the "story" mode you will get missions you need to complete.. and the other team probbely needs to defend them. So i think KOS will be there... couse its a 5 vs 5..

Please tell me if im wrong.

 

Ps. my english sucks (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

* and Yes i would also like if the world stops KOS... but i dont have that trust any more.

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Sushi

I think it really depends how they employ the "Rat" mechanic of shooting PMCs on your own side. Tarkov is supposed to be very factional - with long-term repercussions for shooting other PMCs. Personally I think the idea is awful for free-roam since it neuters your ability for self-defense (what happens if that USEC guy shoots at your USEC person? You get bad karma for firing back?)

Personally though? If people don't respawn, most players are going to KoS just for safety's sake. That's what I think will happen, and I think largely we'll have to pick up likewise tactics out of necessity. With 40mm grenades, hand grenades and sniper rifles, you're going to have engagements where people die before there's really a chance to converse and negotiate too.

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Magor57

So far everyone told me "safety" reasons why not to Kill, or why To Kill, and that is one and the same thing - You won't die to that person. In DayZ, I don't care about a bambi, I walk to 2-5 bambis tell them to put their hands up and if the don't, they dead. If they do, they are getting tied and tortuered. If I see a player with a weapon "Don't move or I will shoot" is shouted. If he moves, turns, runs, or take his gun out, I fire, simple as that. I don't need to be super friendly to everyone, I just want reasons why not to kill others that dont scream "Not killing and far far evading is better, he won't kill you" and "Kill him, he won't kill you back". No, no mission comes first. In a game, Fun comes first. For me and I think I am not a minority in this. Yes, you can enjoy completing a mission, but I enjoy interacting with others. And on the scale from 0-no joy to 10-full of joy I enjoy shooting on like 1-3. I enjoy other things more! Cuffing, breaking legs, torture, blood transusion, forcefeeding disinfectant... If DayZ adds massages that help you aim, I will massage strangers. If the add bonuses to people around a fire, the more people the better, I will be building fires and telling stories over the comfy fire with strangers. I want stuff to do. Not reasons "because it will be safer"... If you can't find these, then it is not the ultimate hardcore survival, but ultimate hardcore shooter with some food and inventory. Which is not what devs said.

 

Rly guys, has none of you ever tied a bambi, broke his legs, put a blindfold on him, forcefed him a disinfectant and then laughed with his squad until the moment he finaly went into sleep? We need stuff like this. EFT is gonna be A GREAT SHOOTER WITH GUN MODDING and some food and stuff, but the way this is going, I am affraid I will be still playing more DayZ for this kind of experience and almost no EFT. I can kill people in COD. The feeling of loosing all items is what DayZ gives me. I see no new, or extended type of joy that EFT can provide here

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Cotty

I don't think you have time to torcher people the way you want. And I hope you don't have any pets lol.

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Avexum
21 hours ago, Magor57 said:

Great. Somehow I can't see any reasons why not to kill others, or what to do with other players. All I see is one reason why not to carry too much stuff and one reason why to consider your gear before raid. Not even remotly related

I just figured one of the biggest reasons why not to kill on sight. You destroy the gear you so much want, one of the main reasons for the kill in the first place 

 

EFT is gonna be A GREAT SHOOTER WITH GUN MODDING and some food and stuff, but the way this is going, I am affraid I will be still playing more DayZ for this kind of experience and almost no EFT. I can kill people in COD. The feeling of loosing all items is what DayZ gives me. I see no new, or extended type of joy that EFT can provide here

To be clear, this isnt "Dayz" this is ESCAPE from tarkov, you wont have time to torture someone, if by chance you end up killing someone in the process of escaping, then take that gear, but the point is that we dont want KoS, thats not what the developers or the community wants. Not only do you have a reputation based on your bahavior, but If the server or community knows your an A-hole, better expect to be hunted down. In the free roam portion, KoS is still discouraged, the devs themselves even said that we want to prevent another "Douchebag simulator". In simple terms, if your coming into this game just to kill every person in sight, you wont have as good as a time of someone using all the games mechanics and features such as trading, doing side missions, and meeting new people.  

Do you even know what this game is? have you read all the FAQs, every scrap of background info on their main website? Im not sure why you feel the need to torture people, if your wondering, as far as we know, theres none of that in EFT, and another note, "No, no mission comes first. In a game, Fun comes first." you better believe the mission comes first, thats the point of the damn game, you realize this isnt an open world to go kill people and torture all you want to start, before you even get to free roam, you  HAVE to play 10 or so raids, timed missions, to get to free roam, so unless you wanna run around like a jackass in those timed raids, where you have about an hour to escape takov, your not going to have a lotta fun, this is a hardcore milsim shooter with survival aspects, you should be playing this game like its ARMA 3 or rainbow 6, your not a survivor with a gun in an apocalypse, your a private mercenary, with morals, get over your sadistic Dayz "torture and kill all in sight". thats a bad mentality. 

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Magor57
54 minutes ago, Avexum said:

we dont want KoS, thats not what the developers or the community wants.

So I won't get KoSed by people? Nice! Thank you for that. Any guarantee?

55 minutes ago, Avexum said:

 Not only do you have a reputation based on your bahavior

I must have missed that, is there any topic on that please?

56 minutes ago, Avexum said:

but If the server or community knows your an A-hole, better expect to be hunted down.

 

OK you know that Magor57 is a total Ahole. You know you need to KoS Magor57. How will you do that? Where will you meet Magor57? How will you know THAT PMC is Magor57 and not someone potentionaly friendly? Is there goint to be a nametag, when you aim at me, like in Arma? If so, I must have missed that info. If not, I can be the biggest KoS dude on the planet and yet noone can know it is me, who they see in the distance... There is no way of telling someones nick, therefore you can't "hunt down Magor57"...

59 minutes ago, Avexum said:

 In the free roam portion, KoS is still discouraged, the devs themselves even said that we want to prevent another "Douchebag simulator". In simple terms, if your coming into this game just to kill every person in sight, you wont have as good as a time of someone using all the games mechanics and features such as trading, doing side missions, and meeting new people. 

That is somewhat what I wanted to hear, thank you

59 minutes ago, Avexum said:

Do you even know what this game is? have you read all the FAQs, every scrap of background info on their main website? Im not sure why you feel the need to torture people, if your wondering, as far as we know, theres none of that in EFT, and another note, "No, no mission comes first. In a game, Fun comes first." you better believe the mission comes first, thats the point of the damn game, you realize this isnt an open world to go kill people and torture all you want to start, before you even get to free roam, you  HAVE to play 10 or so raids, timed missions, to get to free roam, so unless you wanna run around like a jackass in those timed raids, where you have about an hour to escape takov, your not going to have a lotta fun, this is a hardcore milsim shooter with survival aspects, you should be playing this game like its ARMA 3 or rainbow 6, your not a survivor with a gun in an apocalypse, your a private mercenary, with morals, get over your sadistic Dayz "torture and kill all in sight". thats a bad mentality. 

I know what this game is. No, fun always comes first. If I want to run around naked in DayZ, screaming or playing jukebox and don't care if I die, and I do die, it's ok. I am having fun. So no, thank you, but I will play the game in a way that gives me joy and happines. It may be "complete the mision". It may be "let's kill everyone until the timer runs out". It may be "Let's help everyone until someone kills me". But I am not going to place "mission" first, not in a game. That's just stupid and I am sorry for you if you do this, rather playing the game to the objective than having fun while playing the gamy any way that gives you fun. Game is made to enthertain people, it is the GAMEs MISSION. Inside a game, you have missions, which, by doing and playing them, should bring joy to the customer, the player. If not, may the player find another way to play the game to have fun. It's about the fun man, not about the 100% sync in Assassins Creed...

 

Even Arma of Rainbow I play with the "let's have fun" attitude rather than "let's win this time". As I once stated before, it is not that I am sadistic for torturing players in DayZ. It is just that the game does not give me any ingame mechanics to actualy do positive stuff to people, or not that much. Forcefed someone beans or an apple? Just a feeling that some people might not even feel after some hours in DayZ. Handcuff someone? You can see the effect, the ingame result. If there was a posibility to stretch someones back and legs to increase his sprinting speed, I would do that. I am not sadistic because I "torture people in DayZ" + I don't enjoy KoS in DayZ. I played on Amarok Arma Altis Life server for half a year, several hours a day. Amarok was the heaviest RP server. You would get banned for KoS without giving someone a chance to surrender. And I enjoyed the hell out of it. So no, I don't KoS in DayZ. I do what the game gives me to do, talking about in game mechanics. Drop some food for someone? Cool, but unless my character actualy gets some bonus, or a reputation point, or something, I will stick to blindfolding people. That is a pretty solid ingame mechanic. As I said before, I hope there are resons why not to KoS, excluding fear of death. If there is going to be some reputation system with benefits and disadvantages, maybe it will be enough. I hope it will be enough...

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Avexum
29 minutes ago, Magor57 said:

So I won't get KoSed by people? Nice! Thank you for that. Any guarantee?

I must have missed that, is there any topic on that please?

OK you know that Magor57 is a total Ahole. You know you need to KoS Magor57. How will you do that? Where will you meet Magor57? How will you know THAT PMC is Magor57 and not someone potentionaly friendly? Is there goint to be a nametag, when you aim at me, like in Arma? If so, I must have missed that info. If not, I can be the biggest KoS dude on the planet and yet noone can know it is me, who they see in the distance... There is no way of telling someones nick, therefore you can't "hunt down Magor57"...

That is somewhat what I wanted to hear, thank you

I know what this game is. No, fun always comes first. If I want to run around naked in DayZ, screaming or playing jukebox and don't care if I die, and I do die, it's ok. I am having fun. So no, thank you, but I will play the game in a way that gives me joy and happines. It may be "complete the mision". It may be "let's kill everyone until the timer runs out". It may be "Let's help everyone until someone kills me". But I am not going to place "mission" first, not in a game. That's just stupid and I am sorry for you if you do this, rather playing the game to the objective than having fun while playing the gamy any way that gives you fun. Game is made to enthertain people, it is the GAMEs MISSION. Inside a game, you have missions, which, by doing and playing them, should bring joy to the customer, the player. If not, may the player find another way to play the game to have fun. It's about the fun man, not about the 100% sync in Assassins Creed...

 

Even Arma of Rainbow I play with the "let's have fun" attitude rather than "let's win this time". As I once stated before, it is not that I am sadistic for torturing players in DayZ. It is just that the game does not give me any ingame mechanics to actualy do positive stuff to people, or not that much. Forcefed someone beans or an apple? Just a feeling that some people might not even feel after some hours in DayZ. Handcuff someone? You can see the effect, the ingame result. If there was a posibility to stretch someones back and legs to increase his sprinting speed, I would do that. I am not sadistic because I "torture people in DayZ" + I don't enjoy KoS in DayZ. I played on Amarok Arma Altis Life server for half a year, several hours a day. Amarok was the heaviest RP server. You would get banned for KoS without giving someone a chance to surrender. And I enjoyed the hell out of it. So no, I don't KoS in DayZ. I do what the game gives me to do, talking about in game mechanics. Drop some food for someone? Cool, but unless my character actualy gets some bonus, or a reputation point, or something, I will stick to blindfolding people. That is a pretty solid ingame mechanic. As I said before, I hope there are resons why not to KoS, excluding fear of death. If there is going to be some reputation system with benefits and disadvantages, maybe it will be enough. I hope it will be enough...

I understand your points and you go ahead and play the game as you see fit, but I'd advise to do the missions, at least finish them and get to free roam, the missions will be very competitive, think of the raids like Csgo or league, a instance of 12 or so people all trying to get out, If one faction or team member is screwing around and not doing their part, they won't be happy, you'll probably end up with a bullet in your back, then your gears gone 

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PoeticSinner

Eh ID say kos is the way to go. Mission comes first? Great, shoot the possible obstacles before they end or slow down your progress. Safety? Dead targets don't return fire. I'm referring to kosing opposite factions and not killing off allies mind you. Unlike in DayZ, the dead won't be returning. They can tell their allies where you "were" but the dead can't follow you, set you up, distract you so their friends can jump you, or pull a cheap shot. I can see the timer running low and both sides shouting over cover that both sides just go their own way, because no time for drawn out firefight or looting spoils, but aside from that, or the occasional lone wolf bluffing his way out of a fight he would surely lose, kos will be the way to go. Honestly I think it would be disappointing if people all just ignored each other to speed run through raids for the sake of easy progression. I believe it would put a real damper on the game and lead to many people leaving. If you were referring to kosing your own side then I'd say strength in numbers being a reason not too. But as far as the other faction is concerned, I'm not talking to them short of crackin a joke and popping their skull before they can chuckle.

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Ozymandias

Developers say that if you KOS your own faction it gives you bad reputation all other players can see. It affects trading with NPC and make them sell you bad items.

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Keza

So everyone here is shouting: "I want realistic shooter, real guns, no automic loot, but search every pocket!"

But when it comes to shooting it is KoS, just like real life...right. Then all of a sudden the game must be fun; I was udner the impression EFT aims to be different, but that in all honesty starts with the players. From what I reading here, not much will change compared to the other titles. Game seems ruined before it even hit Alpha....

Edited by Keza
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Kovacs

As I already stated before, I'll be KOS against Rats and Scav. KOS on Raid (the mission go first) and Neutral in Free-Roam.

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Keza
3 minutes ago, Kovacs said:

As I already stated before, I'll be KOS against Rats and Scav. KOS on Raid (the mission go first) and Neutral in Free-Roam.

KoS against Rats and Scav

rest neutral...

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Kovacs
1 minute ago, Keza said:

KoS against Rats and Scav

rest neutral...

The fact is, I'm going to be heavily equipped in Raid, to maximise my chances of survive and victory. I can't stand the risk to be stab in the back by a BEAR player.

In free-roam I'll be very light geared, to maximise my looting capabilities. Plus I'll have the time to do real-time trade.

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Keza

Until I have had some experience in the game it is hard to predict my behaviour. If it proves possible to flee from enemy on contact during RAID I will. Maybe even still when firing starts. The shootouts are presumbly risky....That is why I said "mission first". Put myself in unnecessary danger and jeopardize the mission, so best to avoid.

But it all depends...can you make safe exit on contact or not? Perhaps you are recon of group, and call in their help, or consult with them for next action? who knows? Going blindly....no.

 

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GoD1989

I think im probably going to end up going through what I, and every other player wen through on games like DayZ, Ark etc etc.

  1. Noob level: Running scared until having even a rudimentary weapon
  2. Idiot level: Trying to take on things or people that are too high level/too big/too experienced with said rudimentary weapo.
  3. Experienced: Knowing what weapons/equipment is good for what situations, and when to use them.

 

KoS will be a massive problem at first, but its all part of the learning curve. By both parties! The killer and victim. Victim will learn how handle themselves with KoS players. Killer will learn that playing in that manner isnt going to get him anywhere other than earning himself a bad reputation, ultimately leading to his demise when people hunt him down.

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TheTrainStation
40 minutes ago, GoD1989 said:

I think im probably going to end up going through what I, and every other player wen through on games like DayZ, Ark etc etc.

  1. Noob level: Running scared until having even a rudimentary weapon
  2. Idiot level: Trying to take on things or people that are too high level/too big/too experienced with said rudimentary weapo.
  3. Experienced: Knowing what weapons/equipment is good for what situations, and when to use them.

 

KoS will be a massive problem at first, but its all part of the learning curve. By both parties! The killer and victim. Victim will learn how handle themselves with KoS players. Killer will learn that playing in that manner isnt going to get him anywhere other than earning himself a bad reputation, ultimately leading to his demise when people hunt him down.

Before you even get to free-roam, you'll be experienced enough because of all the raids. Other than that, you can purchase weapons. Not just find them. Heck, you start with a weapon after all.

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.Motorola.
25 minutes ago, TheTrainStation said:

Before you even get to free-roam, you'll be experienced enough because of all the raids. Other than that, you can purchase weapons. Not just find them. Heck, you start with a weapon after all.

Pretty sure the weapons you scavenge will be more rare and exotic.

Edited by .Motorola.

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PoeticSinner

I think that the term kos is being used differently by people here. Some referring to it as killing their teammates, and others with killing the enemy on site. I can only imagine that both factions will be forced into confrontation during raids and there will not be time to avoid areas inhabited by the enemy so shooting the enemy on site is only logical and expected in this game. I highly doubt either side will have time to find what they need if they choose to not engage in combat and if I ever see people trying to get through raids by buddying up with opposite factions for cheesy reasons, not something understandable where both guys are almost dead and out of time so they let each other slide by with distrustful looks, where people don't fight and EFT becomes a high five simulator as both sides gleefully talk and search for stuff together, I'm going to treat them the same way I treated all the 7 vs 1 comp stomp children back in the days of StarCraft and spray as many of them down as I can regardless of faction and wear the rat status with pride. I'm more concerned about people killing same faction out of defense and getting rat status for defending themselves. Looking forward to seeing how it's all handled. Definitely going to be sticking with groups of people I know over random unknown people cause it's just like in DayZ, you earn trust.

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smokatoke

Devs have mentioned sound playing a big factor, like opening a door with key vs kicking in a door. The difference is attracting attention to yourself from AI/Scavs and also players. Gunfire on any person you spot is just going to up that infinitely... I KOS in DayZ because you get shot in the back 99% of the time if you dont and there is no repercussions for it in the game. (Zombies are no threat and you can just spawn right back into the fight and freshie punch someone). In EFT it sounds like there will be more negative implications for making yourself known (Scav and Player attacks), if you die you dont come back, and if you are a backstabber everyone gets to easily track you down and murder you via the Rat system. Add to that negative attitude from in-game traders...

There seems to be way more incentive to kill only when needed. The Devs said in the end we are all really on the same team trying to escape from Tarok.

Edited by smokatoke
Spelling fix

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