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Magor57

Why should we not KoS

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PoeticSinner
6 minutes ago, smokatoke said:

incentive to kill only when needed. The Devs said in the end we are all really on the same team trying to escape from Tarok.

Everyone trying to escape but I don't know about going as far as to say we're on the same team. Sure shooting will attract scavs and players, but its a lot safer then having that same player you had a bead on earlier popping in behind you later with your head in a desk. If you choose not to kill when you have a chance, that's fine. Everybody is free to play how they like. But if the other spared guy shoots you, or any of your allies, then you're partially responsible for it happening. I'm by no means bashing on people who want to play sneaky cause that can be fun in itself but comes with its own set of complications. I do hope it doesn't turn into cod where people join random groups then try blowing up their group at the start but I'm sure it's bound to happen. Travel with people you trust and when possible, fill up all your factions slots if it's possible :P

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soul7wolf
On 2/23/2016 at 6:54 AM, Keza said:

Plain and simple: mission comes first!

Big question: what exactly is the mission?

options:

  1. Looting adds weight...
  2. you can only carry one instance of each type weapon, so you must choose...

i feel like double wielding would of been a better idea

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Starlight
On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 at 7:02 AM, Magor57 said:

[...]

 

Rly guys, has none of you ever tied a bambi, broke his legs, put a blindfold on him, forcefed him a disinfectant and then laughed with his squad until the moment he finaly went into sleep? We need stuff like this. EFT is gonna be A GREAT SHOOTER WITH GUN MODDING and some food and stuff, but the way this is going, I am affraid I will be still playing more DayZ for this kind of experience and almost no EFT. I can kill people in COD. The feeling of loosing all items is what DayZ gives me. I see no new, or extended type of joy that EFT can provide here

Frankly, then this is probably not going to be the game for you.

EFT is not a survival game. It's a shooter. It does have signifantly more incentives tied to survival and penalties for death than most current shooters, but it's still primarily a shooter. It's sessionized, not an open-world persistent sandbox. Beyond same-faction kills that mark you as a rat, there is zero-long term impetus for making 'nice' or 'friendly' decisions since you only have to stay alive for 90 minutes max, rather than indefinitely. So KoS is always the safer choice, especially given that the AI scavs will definitely be doing so.

Also, the whole concept of standing around screwing with some guy for twenty minutes runs directly counter to the core of EFT, which is escape.

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TheTrainStation
8 hours ago, .Motorola. said:

Pretty sure the weapons you scavenge will be more rare and exotic.

Rare and exotic doesn't mean they are more powerful. If the developers made the weapons as effective as they make us believe, a simple rifle should do the job.

Though they claim to aim for realism, so any of the weapons that can be found in tarkov should possible also be for sale in the stores. Except maybe collectors rifles like lever actions and all that neat stuff. Other than that, military grade weaponry should be there in the store. 

 

 

 

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Europoor

 kinda sums it up. You either die as a hero, or live long enough to become a villain.

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Keza

So I guess you just like it? OK fair enough. Question, however, was why not to KoS.

your answer: because it is not fun not to....ok

 

nice vid btw

 

"pre-emptive self-defense" gotta love that one!

Edited by Keza

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Viktorkm

Many of these games suffer from the same problem, its not real life, and to get a "real life" experience with true negotiation and not just KOS trolls, its all comes down to true Role playing, which all true forumister have in their mind when they talking up the game. But its all very different when the games comes out.

Like for Day Z, on paper it sounds really cool, but not many people play the game like they would have been acting as if they were there in the real life...

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Europoor
7 minutes ago, Keza said:

So I guess you just like it? OK fair enough. Question, however, was why not to KoS.

your answer: because it is not fun not to....ok

 

nice vid btw

 

"pre-emptive self-defense" gotta love that one!

It's not me, but represents a very interesting thoughtline.

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Detector

I will take the chance of having to eat lead if that gives me the possibility of cool player interaction. 

If I shoot the first (potentially friendly) player I encounter in the face without even speaking to that person, nothing prevents the other guy from doing so as well the next time he encounters someone else, or you. Galatians 6:7. 

Edited by snikkel

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PoeticSinner

I'm sure all you DayZ players have heard "friendly!", " don't run! We just want to talk", "if you stop we won't kill you" and many variations, most of them ending the same way, with a fresh character. As long as part of the community kos's, a large portion will follow suit. In games like DayZ, surviving confrontation with others is the only challenge it has these days. Best way to avoid kos, play with friends. One on one, even an ungeared person will usually try to bash you in the head. But if you've got friends and they can see all the guns trained on them, then you can get a friendly conversation sometimes. Btw the whole, "I've got a sniper trained on you so don't try anything" usually doesn't work but is hilarious when they get popped trying to call your bluff....so don't bluff. Personally I NEVER cooperate when people tell me to stop because I've grown quite good at losing people as they scream their friendly intentions while emptying their magazines at me. On the flip side, I've  spared a lot of people and made a few regular friends I now play with a lot. I've also camped bodies and turned one geared body into a pile of 10 bodies without sparing them a word. Play smart and kos isn't an issue. Suppose making friends or being silly for stories are the only reason not to kos I can come up with. Last Bambi we caught who cooperated after getting tied up and blindfolded not only survived but found himself fully geared after wiggling free. Just have fun. Not everyone is out to get you. Then again, most are. 

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Keza

An interesting proposal was made on some forum a while back:

when you encounter someone and open the dialog with "do not shoot, friendly", the other can accept or reject.

Reject can be immediate by firing, simple. Or you accept and the both of you cannot fire until some period of time expires.

of course the both of you are still open to unfriendly fire...so you location is important

This allows friendly interaction for period of time; trade or whatever. When the parties decide to part again, the truce is over. Ofc you still cannot open fire for a little while after...reasons obvious.

The speed of game will allow this kind of interaction or not. In high pace, it is probably easier to Kos...but still interesting concept.

 

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Detector

From a Q&A over at the EFT Reddit page (apparently, there is one):

'You will recieve the "Rat" status and everybody of your faction will know about this at the start of a raid. Also merchants will hate you and give you useless crap to purchase'.

Of course, the 'rat' status is relevant to your own faction only, but the reputation/penalty mechanic might be interesting to apply in a broader sense when community servers become a thing. This would preferably be a setting server admins control. 

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Keza

That would indeed be nice. Some of course would relish that status, but still other players are warned about who they are dealing with.

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PoeticSinner

Again, only issue with rat status, while great in theory, is that there will be people who will wound and grief people into killing them to get rat status for trolling sake(enter raid with just a trash gun and a little ammo) or sometimes you'll have the option of killing in self defense and taking on rat status or losing your gear unless you can get away from a guy who wants you dead who you can't shoot. Sounds like loads of fun for them to abuse. Also I doubt there will be a kick option cause it could easily be abused for(if they keep their gear) getting friends out if a failed mission or (if they are considered dead and lose gear) a way for groups to troll. Not trying to come off pessimistic, its just that artificial means to attempt to reduce team killing like this rat status can and most likely will be abused for trolling sake. Personally it would be best to avoid all that like DayZ did which forces people to take chances and actually try to make friends until they have a full group, or go in with people you trust from the start. 

Also don't think if anything you find, aquire, or purchase as "your" possessions. Escape from Tarkov is simply loaning them to you. Don't get attatched. 

I still think the OP was referring to opposite faction with KoS btw. Not sure why people keep jumping to team killing which is very different from KoS.

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Keza

I agree. KoS is simply a playstyle.  You do so because you enjoy it. The vid above shows that perfectly.

Of course it is not everyone's cup of tea and that is where the friction/frustration starts.

Some want the full experience as close to reality as you can get, but others keep the "it is only a game" approach.

It will be an interesting mix. For those seeking full immersion: trust no one, perhaps not even your friends....

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PoeticSinner
3 hours ago, Keza said:

I agree. KoS is simply a playstyle.  You do so because you enjoy it. The vid above shows that perfectly.

Of course it is not everyone's cup of tea and that is where the friction/frustration starts.

Some want the full experience as close to reality as you can get, but others keep the "it is only a game" approach.

It will be an interesting mix. For those seeking full immersion: trust no one, perhaps not even your friends....

Agreed although after 700+ hours of DayZ, I've got a good group thankfully. I'm thinking this is going to be more of an objective based shooter then a rp style game. Probably better chance of rp in DayZ SA which isn't saying much. There will be pricks but u think you'll find more people willing to cooperate with random same faction for a few reasons being better chance of getting out with gear as well as you can only hold so much gear and if you kill one member of the party, you'd have to kill em all or they would most likely off you in return. Will probably be most tense at the end when the exit is in sight since that's when they'll know if they have room for more gear as well as an escape route after jacking somebody. 

Something just dawned on me. Will rat status persist with you after raids into the next raid, or will it be a status you get that raid if you tk so others can kill you off after the fact without losing rep or getting rat status themselves? Would make more sense that way as well as would make it easier for those who get it in self defense since the group might have seen what went down instead of having to try and explain to the next random group why you have rat status from a previous raid and hoping they believe you. Otherwise they might shoot you despite just in case. The rep loss could still take effect regardless of rat status persisting to future raids mind you.

Edited by PoeticSinner

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Keza

The exit points would need to be found as I understood, so I guess they can only be camped when they found it first. When multiple exits exist there is the odd chance they 'got the wrong one'. Exit points will quickly become a hotspot. Unless you saw them first and change strategy....

The rat status should persist across raids. Not everybody participates in the same raid, so you do not know what other players are like. On the other hand that migh just enhance immersion....status exists only during raid because there you found out. Or it should only be status available to those in the raid....that would be best.

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PoeticSinner

Agreed. I'd hate to have a guy shooting at me and get rat status because I killed him before he managed to kill me or my allies only to join another raid later and have some kid use it as an excuse to execute me on the spot. Not as worried about people camping the exit as I am literally shooting you in the back at it :P I hope it's like DayZ where stuff gets damaged or ruined if shot and not as rewarding for the person who sprayed you down. Won't stop it but still. Btw if you don't have a group to run with, feel free to add me if you're going to be playing on usa servers. Wooden Bullets is my steam. Safety in numbers 

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Keza

I am in Europe; but that does not need to stop me to play the USA servers (time difference might :bedizzy:)

I am in the process to join EU Outlaws (bit quiet folks!), but perhaps they grant me permission to 'go rogue' for a raid or two....

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Ka9a

Most posts were tl;dr for me  but to sum up : The devs promised further information on a reputation system that would mark any players who kill within their own faction ( maybe even put a bounty on them for the oposing faction) , it would also make trading harder for them, so being an ass is not really recommended. 

As for KOS for enemy players: Mission comes first. In the action trailer we only see BEAR and USEC operators working together when scavs outnumber them.

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Sushi

I feel like the Day Z comparisons are off because it's not very factional at all. EFT is exactly the opposite. You are forced to be one of two PMCs which effects your relationships with traders, starting gear and skills. The idea is not shooting an opposing PMC is the exception, not the rule. So it's going to be very Kill-on-Sight oriented with the team-based Raid mode at least.

It's a slightly different issue with the "rat" mechanic, where it's supposed to make you wary of shooting at your own side, particularly in raid.

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Jagular

One way of dealing with 'Rats' would be to not give penalty to any friendlies killing the 'Rats'.

Lets say you have 5 stages of scumbag each one descending into more scumness for every comrade you murder:

1. Traitor

2. Villain

3. Bandit

4. Scum

5. Subhuman trash

Once someone reaches the level of subhuman trash, people within the same factions wont take moral penalty for killing you.

You will remain a 'Rat' until you complete some sort of 'Redemption mission' that raises or reset your moral standning to normal again. You can choose to remain a rat for whatever reason in a raid but you run the risk of getting shot in the head at just before the exit and have all your gear stolen, or 'confiscated' as I would put it, even if you performed flawlessly during the raid.   

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Sushi
On 3/4/2016 at 10:12 AM, Jagular said:

One way of dealing with 'Rats' would be to not give penalty to any friendlies killing the 'Rats'.

Lets say you have 5 stages of scumbag each one descending into more scumness for every comrade you murder:

1. Traitor

2. Villain

3. Bandit

4. Scum

5. Subhuman trash

Once someone reaches the level of subhuman trash, people within the same factions wont take moral penalty for killing you.

You will remain a 'Rat' until you complete some sort of 'Redemption mission' that raises or reset your moral standning to normal again. You can choose to remain a rat for whatever reason in a raid but you run the risk of getting shot in the head at just before the exit and have all your gear stolen, or 'confiscated' as I would put it, even if you performed flawlessly during the raid.   

Sounds not so great. If all it takes to get rid of your reputation is a mission, it's no balancing parameter at all.

Kill X Teammates > Mission > Kill X Teammates > Mission > Kill X Teammates > Mission

I'd be a lot more concerned about if it applies in free roam where it's not team-based or what conditions need to be met for it to be self-defense.

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