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Anti-Hacking


screwywabbit

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screwywabbit

I searched the FAQ and forums but haven't found anything on this, What are your plans on preventing hackers, The game seems amazing, fun, and enjoyable but how will hackers be dealt with and rooted out. Do you have a system being developed along with the game to get rid of the cheaters either finding a way to add stuff to their characters, turning on godmode and anti clipping, or auto aims? I'm highly supportive of the game and what you guys are doing but the game could be very off putting if little is done to prevent cheating.

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Preventing cheating is impossible. You can only make it more and more difficult for the hackers (Cheat developers not users) to produce the cheats. I wouldn't get your hopes up for a cheater free game

Both IP and Account BAN! Devs must show their teeth, from the very first cheating action to those ...kids!  No excuses, no warnings! BANHAMMER in their face! 

I searched the FAQ and forums but haven't found anything on this, What are your plans on preventing hackers, The game seems amazing, fun, and enjoyable but how will hackers be dealt with and rooted ou

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StillMindz
9 minutes ago, screwywabbit said:

I searched the FAQ and forums but haven't found anything on this, What are your plans on preventing hackers, The game seems amazing, fun, and enjoyable but how will hackers be dealt with and rooted out. Do you have a system being developed along with the game to get rid of the cheaters either finding a way to add stuff to their characters, turning on godmode and anti clipping, or auto aims? I'm highly supportive of the game and what you guys are doing but the game could be very off putting if little is done to prevent cheating.

trainfender (one of the devs replying to the EFT subreddit) replied to someone asking about anti-cheat. He said, "yes we making our own anticheat system/ we have a huge experience with this with contract wars"

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screwywabbit
Just now, StillMindz said:

trainfender (one of the devs replying to the EFT subreddit) replied to someone asking about anti-cheat. He said, "yes we making our own anticheat system/ we have a huge experience with this with contract wars"

Alright, as i dug deeper I seen content from the russian forum said "How will cheaters be dealt with" "Anti cheat system" But didn't go into much more than, I have played a few games that had Anti cheats Supposedly, Wasn't a very good one, Hoping they are strict on it.

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Preventing cheating is impossible. You can only make it more and more difficult for the hackers (Cheat developers not users) to produce the cheats. I wouldn't get your hopes up for a cheater free game if I were you.

As long as they don't impersonate Ubisoft and put everything client side, Anti hack measures should be pretty easy to implement as no matter what you set your local hp/ammo/etc at, the server will know what it should be and adjust/ban as necessary. Anti aimbot is the only real threat to games these days (unless you are Ubisoft and purposefully stick to antiquated server technologies).

The most straight forward approach (Which is insufficient theses days) is mouse smoothing detection. If some anti cheat software picks up cursor movement that is too smooth or quick, it will flag it then if it occurs constantly, issues a ban. The down side is cheat developers have wizened up to this and reduced mouse smoothness by adding a certain level of randomness to how the mouse moves. Adding convex motions on longer lock ons etc and preventing the software from locking onto players outside of the FoV. 

I am actually working on a thesis for class on anti cheat technology. Where by it measures mouse movement inside menus where it knows you are not using an aimbot and compares it to mouse movements inside a match. It evaluates your play style over time and makes a decision on whether you are cheating or not. 

The anti cheat software I am developing also allows for remote view of the players in game screen  which when a player is flagged as a cheater, a member of staff would be able to view that players game and either issue a ban, remove the flag or leave the flag in place for further monitoring.

I know all this from experience. I have used made and used cheats in the past, way way in the past. These days I build cheats for games during Alpha's and closed beta's to gather data on games companies as well as to submit the source code to said companies with suggestions on how to prevent said cheats from being used. So I know first hand how difficult it is to prevent them and how easy it is to make them. 

Anecdotally though I have never had an account banned for cheating how ever I have had accounts banned for submitting code in good faith to a company who then got butt hurt over the fact I broke their game. 

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1 hour ago, Falney said:

Preventing cheating is impossible. You can only make it more and more difficult for the hackers (Cheat developers not users) to produce the cheats. I wouldn't get your hopes up for a cheater free game if I were you.

As long as they don't impersonate Ubisoft and put everything client side, Anti hack measures should be pretty easy to implement as no matter what you set your local hp/ammo/etc at, the server will know what it should be and adjust/ban as necessary. Anti aimbot is the only real threat to games these days (unless you are Ubisoft and purposefully stick to antiquated server technologies).

The most straight forward approach (Which is insufficient theses days) is mouse smoothing detection. If some anti cheat software picks up cursor movement that is too smooth or quick, it will flag it then if it occurs constantly, issues a ban. The down side is cheat developers have wizened up to this and reduced mouse smoothness by adding a certain level of randomness to how the mouse moves. Adding convex motions on longer lock ons etc and preventing the software from locking onto players outside of the FoV. 

I am actually working on a thesis for class on anti cheat technology. Where by it measures mouse movement inside menus where it knows you are not using an aimbot and compares it to mouse movements inside a match. It evaluates your play style over time and makes a decision on whether you are cheating or not. 

The anti cheat software I am developing also allows for remote view of the players in game screen  which when a player is flagged as a cheater, a member of staff would be able to view that players game and either issue a ban, remove the flag or leave the flag in place for further monitoring.

I know all this from experience. I have used made and used cheats in the past, way way in the past. These days I build cheats for games during Alpha's and closed beta's to gather data on games companies as well as to submit the source code to said companies with suggestions on how to prevent said cheats from being used. So I know first hand how difficult it is to prevent them and how easy it is to make them. 

Anecdotally though I have never had an account banned for cheating how ever I have had accounts banned for submitting code in good faith to a company who then got butt hurt over the fact I broke their game. 

What would be the best solution for cheaters? IP ban with characters banned? Or could there be something even better?

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11 minutes ago, Europoor said:

What would be the best solution for cheaters? IP ban with characters banned? Or could there be something even better?

Both IP and Account BAN! Devs must show their teeth, from the very first cheating action to those ...kids! 

No excuses, no warnings! BANHAMMER in their face! 

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Don't ban IP's because they can be released and a new one acquired. Then if some how another EFT user got there banned IP address they wont be able to connect. No one does IP banning any more. 

They switched to Mac banning. But then people figured out that you can change the mac address on your network card. Also people like me have multiple network adapters. All you can really do is ban accounts. Then you some times ban innocent people.

Today I was playing siege and we went up against a full group of cheaters. When we called them up on it, all they had to say was "So what. We play the game the way we want to" We said "You will get banned. Well.. It's your $60 so it's your loss!" And they responded with "Actually we stole the accounts so it's them that loose it." 

Instant bans have their draw backs. 

Edited by Falney
Damn my English skills suck.
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3 minutes ago, Falney said:

Don't ban IP's because they can be released and a new one acquired. Then if some how another EFT user got there banned IP address they wont be able to connect. No one does IP banning any more. 

They switched to Mac banning. But then people figured out that you can change the mac address on your network card. Also people like me have multiple network adapters. All you can really do is ban accounts. Then you some times ban innocent people.

Today I was playing siege and we went up against a full group of cheaters. When we called them up on it, all they had to say was "So what. We play the game the way we want to" We said "You will get banned. Well.. It's your $60 so it's your loss!" And they responded with "Actually we stole the accounts so it they loose it." 

Instant bans have their draw backs. 

.... God damnit, scum of the e-society...

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Ban-waves are also a good method a lot of games use, the drawback on this, is that they have to ruin your game before they got banned. But since they're unaware of what coming, they got much more people than single banning.

 

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Nowadays a computer is no longer unique. You can change MAC address easily. Some motherboards allow you to change the MAC address of the onboard network chip or you simply insert a cheap pci network card....

Detecting odd behaviour in players mouse/ keyboard actions is also hard. Mouse macros become smarter to, like said,introduce some random behaviour.

 

Storing critical information client side is simply BAD DESIGN!

 

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A good measure will be for Battlestate to keep all account data online and for the devs to be able to access your account at any time. ( much like Warframe does). Any abnormal change in values will result in a straight bann. Warframe also scans for any cheating software before you start the game. All of this results in 99.9% cheat free gameplay. ( i have over 5k hours and never seen anyone cheat). Sure, theyre different games, but measures still apply.

What worries me is that Battlestate Games is a relatively small team and unless they hire more people to prevent it, cheating will always be an issue.

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On 27 februari 2016 at 9:37 PM, Falney said:

Preventing cheating is impossible. You can only make it more and more difficult for the hackers (Cheat developers not users) to produce the cheats. I wouldn't get your hopes up for a cheater free game if I were you.

Interesting post. What about good old analysis of player stats (like BF's cheat-o-meter, that analyzes things like accuracy and kill/death ratio)? It that data too unreliable, in your opinion?

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4 minutes ago, snikkel said:

Interesting post. What about good old analysis of player stats (like BF's cheat-o-meter, that analyzes things like accuracy and kill/death ratio)? It that data too unreliable, in your opinion?

Any "Smart" Cheater would camouflage this by getting normal scores - K/D

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1 minute ago, Ne0x said:

Any "Smart" Cheater would camouflage this by getting normal scores - K/D

There is the crux. I remember countless script kiddies with ratios of 156 to 1, or worse, from my time in the well-known franchise shooters. All headshots, of course. Most cheaters, I think, cheat to antagonize others. 

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warrioractual1
9 minutes ago, Ne0x said:

Any "Smart" Cheater would camouflage this by getting normal scores - K/D

 

3 minutes ago, snikkel said:

There is the crux. I remember countless script kiddies with ratios of 156 to 1, or worse, from my time in the well-known franchise shooters. All headshots, of course. Most cheaters, I think, cheat to antagonize others. 

If what Snikkel says is true, and if you were to apply theory of behavioral psychology to cheating 12 year old troll-kiddies it seems he is indeed right, then a statistical algorithm would be fairly effective at weeding the cheaters out. 

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6 minutes ago, snikkel said:

There is the crux. I remember countless script kiddies with ratios of 156 to 1, or worse, from my time in the well-known franchise shooters. All headshots, of course. Most cheaters, I think, cheat to antagonize others. 

I guess you could call it that.

Those are the Rage hackers you see out there. Not giving a F(*& just headshotting, and killing others through walls etc. Tis kind of hacker does not give a poo about getting bans, especially if the game is cheap (CS:GO).

Then you have the second kind.

These are the ones whom try to seem as "legit" as possible. These people are of the nasty kind. These people do more damage to the game than the Ragehackers IMO.

I believe AC is bigger than only the AntiCheat system BSG is building. The most important thing next to the in-game AC would be the community itsself. We as Players (hopefully if we can get our own servers) should start building Communities, so that when you play, even if there is a cheater, you have the power to kick / ban from that server.

Active admins + Active community + AC = happy times. As long as BSG also give us the tools (easy reporting, and also AC activity from their side) The game should be good.

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11 hours ago, snikkel said:

Interesting post. What about good old analysis of player stats (like BF's cheat-o-meter, that analyzes things like accuracy and kill/death ratio)? It that data too unreliable, in your opinion?

It is not unreliable. But then it is not reliable either. It is another tool that can be used along side others to make it harder to cheat. 

Analytical data can only take you so far. For instance, what is to stop some one entering EFT as their first PvP FPS, do poorly at it, go to another, more forgiving FPS and get better at it before coming back. Then over night their K/D score goes from 0.2 to 4.0. Completely legit. 

Then as mentioned you have the players that use cheats to give them selves an advantage but not out right stand out. The ones who keep a mediocre K/D score. This system won't pick up on these people either. 

What is needed to prevent hackers completely is for there to be a way in C++ to monitor memory address ranges for read access and to know what is reading them. That way the game's anti cheat measures will instantly know if some alien application is trying to read critical data and act accordingly. 

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Alright guys. I posted this same question somewhere else and discovered that there will be two anti cheat systems working simultaneously. This is going to sound extreme but this is how much I hate cheaters so thats the context for you. You should have to enter your social security number and other data to validate who you are to receive a copy of this game. That SS number and other data is validated then you can receive your copy of the game. What ever specifics they work out for identifying the cheater so be it as I can't help there. BUT once you are caught cheating you are banned. Your profile has now been updated internally that you are a hacker. To buy another copy of the game they would have to submit their SS etc and guess what, then they would see you already have a gaming profile, guess what no game for you because you're a hacker. Then this system needs to be replicated to all online games and share  this data base. Once a cheater you never get to play online games again. This will put fear in the cheaters and then they can get back to working on there true skill of the game instead of finding short cuts. 

This also means that a good authenticity check of the game etc is in place. If someone can pirate keys for the game then this does no good. 

Anyway, I think long term this would be great for the online gaming community but I don't see it ever happening. Cheat/anti cheat industry is a multi mullion dollar business. 

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Natalino
4 minutes ago, 0paqu3 said:

Alright guys. I posted this same question somewhere else and discovered that there will be two anti cheat systems working simultaneously. This is going to sound extreme but this is how much I hate cheaters so thats the context for you. You should have to enter your social security number and other data to validate who you are to receive a copy of this game. That SS number and other data is validated then you can receive your copy of the game. What ever specifics they work out for identifying the cheater so be it as I can't help there. BUT once you are caught cheating you are banned. Your profile has now been updated internally that you are a hacker. To buy another copy of the game they would have to submit their SS etc and guess what, then they would see you already have a gaming profile, guess what no game for you because you're a hacker. Then this system needs to be replicated to all online games and share  this data base. Once a cheater you never get to play online games again. This will put fear in the cheaters and then they can get back to working on there true skill of the game instead of finding short cuts. 

This also means that a good authenticity check of the game etc is in place. If someone can pirate keys for the game then this does no good. 

Anyway, I think long term this would be great for the online gaming community but I don't see it ever happening. Cheat/anti cheat industry is a multi mullion dollar business. 

I like the fact that its good to go even that far to decrease cheating but you need to keep in mind that there are countries with no SS or anything related, people might not be happy to give that much detail of theirs for a gaming site (considering how many gaming sites gets hacked every time,including xbox), and some might believe that people need second chance(maybe he was just a kid and cheated and after couple of years he grew up mentally), oh and they might come back with a family member or relative SS.

But again I like the fact that you hate cheaters and you would go this far.

Cheers

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4 minutes ago, Natalino said:

I like the fact that its good to go even that far to decrease cheating but you need to keep in mind that there are countries with no SS or anything related, people might not be happy to give that much detail of theirs for a gaming site (considering how many gaming sites gets hacked every time,including xbox), and some might believe that people need second chance(maybe he was just a kid and cheated and after couple of years he grew up mentally), oh and they might come back with a family member or relative SS.

But again I like the fact that you hate cheaters and you would go this far.

Cheers

Definitely not a perfect plan by any means but I think you get the general idea of where im coming from. Taking this concept and severity and tweaking it to something reasonable could make for a great system. 

I agree second chances should exist. You should get put in a cool off time for reflection for what you've done then a second chance can be granted. Although i've never cheated at a video game doesn't mean people don't mistakes. Everyone wants to be the best and will take extreme measures to appear the best. 

 

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Natalino
5 minutes ago, 0paqu3 said:

Definitely not a perfect plan by any means but I think you get the general idea of where im coming from. Taking this concept and severity and tweaking it to something reasonable could make for a great system. 

I agree second chances should exist. You should get put in a cool off time for reflection for what you've done then a second chance can be granted. Although i've never cheated at a video game doesn't mean people don't mistakes. Everyone wants to be the best and will take extreme measures to appear the best. 

 

They just need to understand that it just need time and patience to be good, unless its pay to win of course. Anyways I have got your point.

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Europoor
1 hour ago, 0paqu3 said:

Alright guys. I posted this same question somewhere else and discovered that there will be two anti cheat systems working simultaneously. This is going to sound extreme but this is how much I hate cheaters so thats the context for you. You should have to enter your social security number and other data to validate who you are to receive a copy of this game. That SS number and other data is validated then you can receive your copy of the game. What ever specifics they work out for identifying the cheater so be it as I can't help there. BUT once you are caught cheating you are banned. Your profile has now been updated internally that you are a hacker. To buy another copy of the game they would have to submit their SS etc and guess what, then they would see you already have a gaming profile, guess what no game for you because you're a hacker. Then this system needs to be replicated to all online games and share  this data base. Once a cheater you never get to play online games again. This will put fear in the cheaters and then they can get back to working on there true skill of the game instead of finding short cuts. 

This also means that a good authenticity check of the game etc is in place. If someone can pirate keys for the game then this does no good. 

Anyway, I think long term this would be great for the online gaming community but I don't see it ever happening. Cheat/anti cheat industry is a multi mullion dollar business. 

But with a succeful hacking/DDOS attack, social security numbers and personal infos are going to be leaked...

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