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pimba224

health system rework

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pimba224

so lets see the problems with the health and dmg system before and during the beta the beta

 limb meta . because the fort armor people  just aim for the legs instead of shooting the unbreakable  armor, other thing the helps the leg meta is that that the chest and stomach have MORE hp than the limbs  (80 for the chest, and 70 for the stomach, idk why the stomach is more letal than the chest , leg has 65 hp and arm 60 ) ''but it is harder to aim for the limbs''  yes, it is but it should be awarded with not being able to run (when your leg breaks) and not having much faster ttk , principally with armor.

my suggestions .

1  lets start with a chemotherapy and eliminating the cancer : remove fort armor.

this may seen to gamechanging, but if we want a balanced and realistic health and dmg system before the new plate carrier system arrives, we need to remove the fort armor. many can say: ''but now we will die very fast'' to those i say: ''without the limb dmg the paca is very resistent'' (it doesnt make any sense a soft armor taking multiple ak AP rounds, but okay) and  it will feel more consistent because you wont be 1 hitkilled with armor and a helmet.

2  limb instakill and hp : the hp of the limbs IMO should be increased to 70-75 ( i am okay with the leg having 5 more hp than the arms , but it shouldn't have less than 70 ) and the instakill from limbs shouldn't be a thing . instead of being dead after getting shot on a dead limb, what about a bleeding? for example your leg is at 0 hp and you are bleeding 4 hp per second , you get shoot in the leg by an AK  and instead of dying ,the bleeding increases and you are now losing 7 hp per second and it stacks (mutiple shoots mean worse bleeding). this will result in limbs with more health and that wont instakill you , but shooting at these will still be useful because it will slow you down and you cant fix a broken limb. what do you guys think about this system?

3 chest and stomach health points:  chest should be always more letal than the stomach area ( because the chest has the lungs and the heart) . what about 65 health for the chest? with this  health it will be  easier to kill someone aiming to the chest than the stomach (i fell that the stomach at 70 hp is in a good spot). with 65 hp most guns will be 2 shoots to kill to the chest , but with much more consistency . last thing that i would like to add is that according to the EFT wiki      Ammunition - Escape from Tarkov Wiki          the 5.56x45mm m193 ball (type of ammunition) does 65 dmg , if this is true it may need some nerfs ( reduce the dmg , increase the price ....) but idk how trustworthy this site is.

 

 

i dont want reputation, i dont want that the devs take only my suggestion , i want that they read all the Civilized discussion in the comments and that we reach to a mutual agreement and make EFT better ;)

Ammunition - Escape from Tarkov Wiki

this the link of the wiki

Edited by pimba224
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Chamomileable

I definitely agree with your sentiment from all that I've seen ingame so far. I've yet to get my hands on it, but I've seen so many videos pointing out how useless armor makes body shots that I think there should probably be something done to nerf it.

The reality is that if you're shot with small arms fire while wearing a bulletproof-rated article of clothing, it's going to hurt like nobody's business. You're still at risk for blunt trauma and the fact that there's not a bullet in you is often overshadowed by the fact that you're still in immense pain. Humans have a natural pain threshold, and usually if you get shot, even with a vest, you're not going to stand there. If there was a chance for players to react in some extreme way to being shot while in armor (shouting loudly, screen blurring, weapon shaking, etc) it'd be a lot less overpowered. Moreover, repeated ballistic impacts in armor could still potentially result in the target going into hydrostatic shock from the blunt trauma, a condition that can easily kill and will almost always result in life-altering disability for those afflicted.

Hell, there are dozens of reports of autopsies showing brain hemorrhaging as a result of severe blunt force trauma to the torso.

To make things simple, maybe give players a pain tolerance skill so that they can't just rush the ability to buy armor and then turn into tanks. Make it so that wearing armor without a high pain tolerance gives much more modest protection. Hell, even if someone is constantly patching themselves up, after enough hits, they'd very well die from hydrostatic shock as I mentioned earlier. 

To address helmets, from what I've seen they're slightly less OP right now. Still, the same rules apply for taking a bullet while wearing a helmet. You're still going to be suffering a LOT of blunt trauma, and the immediate result of a rifle round hitting a helmet on someone's head at ranges seen in EFT is going to be ringing ears, concussion, potential skull fracture, and possibly worse.

To keep things realistic and fun, it'd be cool if getting shot in the head while in a helmet didn't instakill you, but instead knocked you off your feet, made it hard for you to see for a few seconds, or gave you a severe ringing in your ears for a time to make it near impossible to hear what's going on around you. Any of those would be preferable to what's currently used.

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pimba224
10 hours ago, Chamomileable said:

I definitely agree with your sentiment from all that I've seen ingame so far. I've yet to get my hands on it, but I've seen so many videos pointing out how useless armor makes body shots that I think there should probably be something done to nerf it.

The reality is that if you're shot with small arms fire while wearing a bulletproof-rated article of clothing, it's going to hurt like nobody's business. You're still at risk for blunt trauma and the fact that there's not a bullet in you is often overshadowed by the fact that you're still in immense pain. Humans have a natural pain threshold, and usually if you get shot, even with a vest, you're not going to stand there. If there was a chance for players to react in some extreme way to being shot while in armor (shouting loudly, screen blurring, weapon shaking, etc) it'd be a lot less overpowered. Moreover, repeated ballistic impacts in armor could still potentially result in the target going into hydrostatic shock from the blunt trauma, a condition that can easily kill and will almost always result in life-altering disability for those afflicted.

Hell, there are dozens of reports of autopsies showing brain hemorrhaging as a result of severe blunt force trauma to the torso.

To make things simple, maybe give players a pain tolerance skill so that they can't just rush the ability to buy armor and then turn into tanks. Make it so that wearing armor without a high pain tolerance gives much more modest protection. Hell, even if someone is constantly patching themselves up, after enough hits, they'd very well die from hydrostatic shock as I mentioned earlier. 

To address helmets, from what I've seen they're slightly less OP right now. Still, the same rules apply for taking a bullet while wearing a helmet. You're still going to be suffering a LOT of blunt trauma, and the immediate result of a rifle round hitting a helmet on someone's head at ranges seen in EFT is going to be ringing ears, concussion, potential skull fracture, and possibly worse.

To keep things realistic and fun, it'd be cool if getting shot in the head while in a helmet didn't instakill you, but instead knocked you off your feet, made it hard for you to see for a few seconds, or gave you a severe ringing in your ears for a time to make it near impossible to hear what's going on around you. Any of those would be preferable to what's currently used.

agree with you , when you get shot even with armor you should damage the armor and a little of the body(simulating the shock of the bullet) this shock should smaller than the damage of  the bullet against no armor(of course) but still kill in a considerable amount of shots ,5-6 AR shots to the chest with heavy armor should still kill you . there is in the game a skill named pain resistance and this skill fits perfectly in this case because when you get shoot while wearing armor there should be the same effect as getting shot in parts without armor(blur screen , flint ...) this skill would  make these effects not that bad . right now it is ridiculous , you get shot in the helmet or vest and you dont even know about it because the bullet simply disappear by the time they hit the armor .

and no , the helmet is worse now , it has 40 durability what from a small hitbox is extremely hard to destroy.

Edited by pimba224

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Ozymandias

I've posted this a couple times on the forums here now, but I'll try to quickly reiterate my suggestion for how the health system should work, a very minor modification of how damage is applied that changes the entire "game" of limb targeting. Now we all know that Fort Armor is the main problem, but it is only part of the problem.

How limb damage should be applied is that when you shoot a limb, any damage taken to the limb after it is "blacked out" should not instantly kill you, it should travel to the adjacent body part and transfer damage to the adjacent body part.

The example I will use here is simple, you shoot the same leg 7 times in a row on a stationary target.
When you shoot the target, say for our example the first two bullets black out the leg. The third bullet hits the leg and all damage is transferred to the stomach. The fourth bullet, still transferring to the stomach, blacks out the stomach. The fifth bullet, still hitting the leg, transfers up to the stomach, then to the chest since the stomach is blacked out. The sixth bullet nearly kills the player, and the seventh finishes them off.

For the next example, I spray at their chest with an AK-74U. The first bullet hits their chest doing half of the chest health. The second and third bullet hit their arm, blacking out the arm. The fourth bullet hits their blacked out arm and transfers damage to the chest, finishing the already wounded body part off and killing the player.

Very simple mechanic change, very major change on how players target body parts. Now you are rewarded for putting multiple bullets into a target, but not necessarily rewarded for shooting someone's leg out. It also somewhat de-incentivises just shooting people's kneecaps out, because it would take less bullets to spray down through someone's paca armor with AK ammo.

 

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Chamomileable
4 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

I've posted this a couple times on the forums here now, but I'll try to quickly reiterate my suggestion for how the health system should work, a very minor modification of how damage is applied that changes the entire "game" of limb targeting. Now we all know that Fort Armor is the main problem, but it is only part of the problem.

How limb damage should be applied is that when you shoot a limb, any damage taken to the limb after it is "blacked out" should not instantly kill you, it should travel to the adjacent body part and transfer damage to the adjacent body part.

The example I will use here is simple, you shoot the same leg 7 times in a row on a stationary target.
When you shoot the target, say for our example the first two bullets black out the leg. The third bullet hits the leg and all damage is transferred to the stomach. The fourth bullet, still transferring to the stomach, blacks out the stomach. The fifth bullet, still hitting the leg, transfers up to the stomach, then to the chest since the stomach is blacked out. The sixth bullet nearly kills the player, and the seventh finishes them off.

For the next example, I spray at their chest with an AK-74U. The first bullet hits their chest doing half of the chest health. The second and third bullet hit their arm, blacking out the arm. The fourth bullet hits their blacked out arm and transfers damage to the chest, finishing the already wounded body part off and killing the player.

Very simple mechanic change, very major change on how players target body parts. Now you are rewarded for putting multiple bullets into a target, but not necessarily rewarded for shooting someone's leg out. It also somewhat de-incentivises just shooting people's kneecaps out, because it would take less bullets to spray down through someone's paca armor with AK ammo.

 

I really like this idea to a degree, but I think it needs refinement. My main issue is that you'd have weird cases where shooting an arm damages a leg and stuff like that. What can be done in order to further improve the concept?

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pimba224
3 hours ago, Chamomileable said:

I really like this idea to a degree, but I think it needs refinement. My main issue is that you'd have weird cases where shooting an arm damages a leg and stuff like that. What can be done in order to further improve the concept?

i like this idea  but there should be like a 50% dmg reduction for the ''transfered'' dmg or people would be shooting the limbs instead of the chest , but IMO all of these ideas ( mine , yours and the mod´s ) would complement really well . so when shooting someone in the leg you wont instakill them but will  make them bleed and make some damage to the stomach, i think this idea would complement well with some bullet shock system (when the bullet hits the armor and deals a little of internal dmg) and not kill someone but ''drain'' their hp and when the armor breaks you will be able to 1 shot they

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