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New Player's Perspective


CaptainMarksman

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CaptainMarksman

The game is incredibly frustrating. Not because it's a hard game, but because it's unfair and unfun.

Nowhere does it tell you what an extraction looks like, how to find one, where they are, etc. Randomly coming up in an extraction zone is horribly small. There should be something that indicates, "hey this is an extraction area" or "hey this direction leads out." I've never found an extraction zone. I only know where some are because I've looked them up. I tried not to because I wanted to explore the map. But I just don't see any way to find them other than dumb luck.

Going in as a SCAV needs to have less of a cool down. Or maybe tone the cooldown to be based on how long you survive in a match. If you're killed instantly by a PMC or another player SCAV, it shouldn't take an hour to recharge. Being a SCAV is fun, and it really helps you learn the guns and the maps. But you can rarely play as them. Especially with the server not found issue.

What's the point of taking anything but your hatchet/knife? You just end up losing your pistol or whatever else you take because you can't find the extraction, or are instantly headshot by AI you can't see through bushes, but they can aimbot to your head even with bushes obstructing you.

The gunplay is horrid, mostly because there are very few opportunities to actually use guns without wasting valuables. Bullets don't register, people can survive pistol rounds to the head, and your guns don't hit players or AI standing directly in front of you because they're too close to your model. For a game claiming to be realistic, I don't see it. Who cares if you're wearing a helmet when I blap you in the face, the open part of your helmet? You'd be dead, even if it is a small round.

In the game's current state, it's not fun to play. It might be, if guns were more common or viable to be used in a match. Or if you had SOME indication of where you are going. At this point though, there's never a reason to use a gun, never a reason to enjoy the fun gun mechanics that are in the game. It's not viable. Maybe when you're 10, 20, or 30 hours into the game it is. But when you're starting out, the game is boring. Players won't want to stay for 10 or 20 hours when it's not fun in the beginning.

The thing is, I know the game CAN be fun. I've seen videos of the game really shining. But anybody new can't enjoy this game without a significant investment.

I might be a little frustrated during this posting, but I think that all of my feedback is fairly valid. I'd like this game to succeed. It seems like genuine fun, but it's just too much of an investment to get to the actual fun part of the game.

 

And, taking a look at these forums, any feedback is met with "go bak to cod scrub," so I'm not particularly sure with what sort of response I'm expecting other than toxicity and fanboy-ism. But for the record, I do not particularly enjoy COD very much.

 

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Docdarson

Well, get prepared for the legions of people telling you to 'git gud' and that the game becomes significantly better after only an ever so small investment of 60 to 120 hours of your time. 

For what it's worth, I agree. The gameplay is frustrating - it's beyond hard, it's nearly impossible for a new player to break in. Yes, I know about the coming karma system. Yes, I know about the coming faction system. Yes, I know that I need to get good. Let me be the first to say that I am terrible at this game, unrepentantly terrible, perhaps. My reaction time is 300ms, and I'm well aware that that puts me maybe in the lowest ten percent of people playing this game alongside me. Most of my deaths have been because of "Xgaming," or "Xplays," or whatever other odd Youtube channel guys that do it for a living. I understand that I'm playing with what could possibly be some of the absolute best in the genre. It doesn't make it any less frustrating.

The lag is frustrating. The desync is frustrating. The lack of starter areas and items is frustrating. The bots are frustrating. Playing as a scav is frustrating. There's no matchmaking, so I'm often paired alongside people who have max armor and the best weapons the game offers, and that's frustrating to me when there's very little chance of my being able to beat them in a straight-up gunfight. Yes, I know, 'git gud.' I understand that I shouldn't be engaging unless I've got the upper hand, etc etc. Often times, I don't even get a choice. These guys spot me at 50, 100 yards, and engage from there, and the lack of cover basically splats me.

It's just an incredibly frustrating game. Maybe it's just not for me, though I'd hazard to say that I wholeheartedly enjoyed the STALKER series, which is where a bit of inspiration for this game clearly comes from. Heck, I've played my share of Insurgency and Day of Infamy, and whatever else people compare it to now. I'm just frustrated. The difficulty is off the charts, and every time I make a mistake, I pay for it with items that I literally cannot buy back from the shop, or get in raids at my level.

I wish you luck on the thread, man, maybe you'll be able to get some help out of it. 

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Allow me to provide an unbiased point of view to combat the critique. Keep in mind while reading this, CaptainMarksman, that this game is meant to fill a specific niche in the gaming community: realism.

While I do admit that searching for extraction points can be obnoxious, in a realistic setting, there wouldn't be clear cut clues. The clues EFT provides vary with each map (e.g. Offshore, tank and bunker guarding exit gate) and can sometimes be inferred by the map itself (Offshore has tanks and military setups, whereas Factory does not, so Factory does not have its extractions as tanks and bunkers). 

The reason for the long cooldowns for the Scavs is because of the heavy benefit it can provide. Even if your character stash is completely empty, you can spawn in as a Scav, outfitted decently well, and keep whatever you earn through victory. Being killed soon after spawn exists in every FPS to my knowledge, and while Scav may be fun, PMC/Bear is meant to be a player's primary gameplay.

If you can't find the extraction, you should study the map a little more carefully in offline mode (or by player made tutorials) before bringing valuable weapons into that map. Otherwise, play on the maps you know well enough to win. If you're instantly headshotted by something, it most likely was not an AI, and if it was, AIs are still "fair" to a point. Your head may have been peeking out of the bush and may not have shown well on your screen. Be very conscious of your hiding positions, being close enough to see the "last layer of leaves" in a bush has a high probability of revealing yourself, even though you may think you're hidden. 

I've played the majority of the past few days and have yet to find an instance when bullets fail to register, outside of a few personal WiFi connection disturbances. As for missing a shot due to being too close for the models to properly function, you may need to expand further, that is a little confusing due to the width and aim boxes. Finally, for unarmored pieces of the head, no successful game to my knowledge has implemented something so specific. It isn't a matter of having the ability to register revealed locations, it's a matter of size. There are a multitude of armor choices in these games (as there will be in the official release of Tarkov, presumably), which begs the question, would the game makers make or lose money by adding this feature? By the amount of required work, they would lose money. Cost / Benefit Analysis, friend. It wouldn't work out in their favor.

I won't sit here and say "if you're not enjoying this game at the start, you must suck", but I will suggest you play a few more FPS's (or tutorial videos, or practice in offline mode) before EFT if you don't understand the gun mechanics (pistols, especially). The recoil and weapon-flinch in this game is very unique and difficult to get used to, and when starting early on can become frustrating. You were absolutely correct when saying your feedback is valid, however not when you said there "there's never a reason to use a gun, never a reason to enjoy the fun gun mechanics that are in the game". When I first began at the release of the beta, I performed quite well, even with a simple pistol. You can think of it as a matter of recoil recognition, to react well enough to counter the weapon's recoil or flinch (when you're shot). It's difficult, but I'm sure you can get the hang of it with some practice.

 

Again, this was a purely neutral response, and at worst I was simply playing devil's advocate. I hope you get the hang of it and hope to see you out there again. 

but go bak 2 c0d u skrub lel

Edited by Androssi
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CaptainMarksman
3 minutes ago, Androssi said:

...this game is meant to fill a specific niche in the gaming community: realism.

While I do admit that searching for extraction points can be obnoxious, in a realistic setting, there wouldn't be clear cut clues.

If you can't find the extraction, you should study the map a little more carefully in offline mode (or by player made tutorials) before bringing valuable weapons into that map. Otherwise, play on the maps you know well enough to win.

 

Alright so, I'm just going to respond to these parts of your response because a lot of what you said is my word vs yours, which will lead us nowhere.

Yes, the game is mean't to fill that niche, I agree. But just because it needs to fulfill realism, doesn't mean it needs to be so realistic, it's unfun. It is still a video game, played for fun. It's not a military training sim. It's a battle-royal, PvP, PvE, loot-fest, with perma-death. If the game is supposed to be hyper-realistic how about when you die you don't ever get to play again, just like real life. Of course, that's a logical extreme.

Gameplay mechanics should not be obnoxious or annoying. They should always add to the overall gameplay, rather than subtract. Even just identifying the clues in the loading screen menu of each map would make it more player-friendly. A tip saying something. Or even make it lore-friendly. You already get a briefing on the area, just throw in a quip about "You might be able to extract at the dock." or "You might be able to find an extraction at the checkpoint." Just a small tip, so you have some clue what you're looking for. There are random bunkers and a couple random boats on the shore, so there are no obvious clues as to what is an extraction. Bunkers and boats aren't a sure sign of extraction.

Offline mode won't exist when the game releases. Shouldn't need to play a gamemode used for beta-testing to learn a map in a game that will be without that gamemode in release.

"Maps you know enough to win." New players don't know any maps.

Lastly, I shouldn't have to look up player-made tutorials and videos to decypher simple and crucial gameplay mechanics.

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Mexitalian

Going to have to agree with this one as well. I was really looking forward to the "realistic" experience this game seemed to promise, however at this point it is far from that.

I don't care if there are other players who have much better equipment than me since it's easy enough to use concealment to keep your signature down and wait for the best opportunity to either strike or displace to another location. Players I can deal with, but the NPCs are just ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of maps populated with AI bandits, that is, when they realistically portray bandits. People here always say, "just learn their routes and sneak up on them." I've managed to do that just fine thinking popping one in the back of the head would be a fun and rewarding kill. bad guy basically 360 no-scopes me in half a millisecond. Absolutely garbage and the farthest from realism than can exist. And for those who may say that it was a de-sync issue, fine, hopefully it will get fixed, but it still doesn't justify the AI being able to instantly acquire a target from their rear and pull off a 1-hit kill.

Anyone whose ever actually used firearms knows how challenging it is to even put precise shots on target even in a controlled environment like a range. If you get shot, you're not going to be at 100%, and even if the shots miss your body, there should be some kind of suppressive effect. No dirty bandit is realistically going to be able to stand there under fire and place precise shots back at their attacker, and any trained fighter is going to immediately seek cover when engaged in a situation where they don't have fire superiority.

I don't mind a super hard game, I don't mind being easily shot if I stupidly walk into an NPCs line of sight, and I don't mind dying quickly when not playing tactically. Unfortunately, even tactical and careful gameplay is only rewarded with aimbot spam by damage-sponges  who don't react to getting shot/shot at. On top of that, these damage sponges apparently also have night vision laser eyes that see through bushes at 50+ yards. 

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I have just a few raids completed but I ahree with many parts. My first raid already showed a bunch issues that are present with most of the maps.

Small maps, plenty of pplayers, static spawns close to each other. AI enemies armed with guns. I was expecting sneaking around, quietly looting and trying to avoid any contact. In the first few minutes I've heard multiple shots from different directions and I was rushed by a guy with a knife. There goes my sneaking, when I have to unload bullets to survive and everyone around knows where I am.

Loot was awfull and confusing, as I observed tons of garbage scattered around the floors and furniture, but nothing I could pick up. Pack of smokes, some food  a box of ammo. Hardly anything valuable.

With no map I had no idea where to go. Places that looked interesting, had absolutely nothing. I saw movement around gas station. Couple of AIs. How did I know? Few, repating paths, pathetic animations and unrealistic behaviour. I cleared them with aksu (God, how inaccurate it was) without any issues. AI was so poor, quite disappointing.

Then I discovered a bunch of crates and a safe. Again, nothing usefull, some ammo and other crap. Exploring the shore led me to extraction point, that didn't look like one.

 

So far I'm disappointed. Maps are too small, too many people, too many AI. You either play as scav or just run around with knife, because chances are too high to get spotted and killed. There is no "looting of less crowded areas", because the moment you wander into lonely scav that shoots at you, everyone keeps rushing towards you.

Shooting isn't difficult but gun precision and damage is all over the place.

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- do not play factory at first.

- learn map, for ex. customs. play it several times. Dont rush.

- visiting buildings use walking 50% speed max. maybe 30-40%.

- aim your gun inside buildings often.

- start with knife. play it, until you complete at least 10 raids like this. Then buy 4.7k makarov + 16 bullets. Repeat.

- Then start with shotguns, repeat. AKs, repeat.... and then.... youll see.

 

 

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Im also new to the game first off i understand what you are saying but remember this is beta and the tutorials is not in yet they will come, another thing if you are struggling with the ai go and do customs pve only "yes i know you dont get loot or xp" but you learn the maps and get better at how and were the possible ai and how to engage them. i haven't touched the other maps other than factory and customs. Why because if you think this is going to be like battlefield or similar you are wrong this is a realistic survival shooter its supose to be hard.

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mockingbird

Being a new player myself, here's my five cents:

You're right about one thing, the game requires an investment of time to learn the ropes, and there is indeed a lot to learn. An important thing is: the game is very challenging while playing alone, so if you're microphone adverse, it's good time to rethink that.

Accept this, and you will have fun, and I am saying this as a guy who has just recently started from thrashing around randomly on Woods and is currently in the process of sorta, kinda getting my head around customs, there's a lot to learn and there's a genuine feeling of progress when you do.

Consider each map a challenge - try and find the good loot spots, learn how to work your way towards the exit. Where does the AI reside and how to avoid them (yes, it's doable). I had tons of fun exploring every nook and cranny on Customs without ever finding the exit (I assumed it's the same thing as in Woods and missed them completely) but trying to maximize my loot haul (even if it's just the contents of the alpha container).

Going in as a SCAV needs to have less of a cool down. Or maybe tone the cooldown to be based on how long you survive in a match. If you're killed instantly by a PMC or another player SCAV, it shouldn't take an hour to recharge. Being a SCAV is fun, and it really helps you learn the guns and the maps. But you can rarely play as them. Especially with the server not found issue.

I used to think that myself, if it wasn't for the cooldown I'd do nothing but scav raids. Problem is, this doesn't progress your main character which means you don't get to see the good stuff in the shops.

I get that you're enjoying scavs, as it takes away the biggest annoyance you feel atm - getting shot through the bushes, but you should consider this training wheels/moneymaking mode and not your main thing. The sooner you realize this, the better your game will get. All those skills you train by playing may not look like much, but you will see a difference.

What's the point of taking anything but your hatchet/knife? You just end up losing your pistol or whatever else you take because you can't find the extraction, or are instantly headshot by AI you can't see through bushes, but they can aimbot to your head even with bushes obstructing you.

Yes, this is slightly counter-intuitive in this game, vegetation doesn't really provide any cover, and bots exacerbate this feeling.

I learnt this the hard way, and I advise you to do the same, soft cover is bollocks, everyone can see you miles away in the grass because it doesn't render, leaves don't really cover anything. Hard cover is where it's at - rocks and concrete are your true friends. 

Also, you'd be surprised how big of a difference it makes when you change the way you walk around. For starters, stop running. Look for safe routes that get you from point A to B. Start looking around - the bots roam more or less similar places and sometimes it's possible to see them in the open. If something hurts your really bad out of nowhere, you might have missed something, like a rooftop sniper. Usually, the AI unloads from maximum distance at a straight line, not caring if it can hit you or not. If you hear bullets, look for cover and think where it might be coming from.

And regarding bringing in pistols and guns in general, you can always put them in the alpha container, it's enough for a pistol, a spare mag and a pile of bullets. Pull it out only if you feel the situation warrants it. Still, baseline guns are dirt-cheap - after a scav run you should bring a pistol, perhaps a shotgun, two if you've had a really good run. That can be worth over 20k rubles. With that, you can buy a carpload of makarovs, not to mention utilizing your starting stash.

It looks daunting at first, but It's actually possible to win a firefight with the AI. With good maneuvering, it's also possible to drop them with melee; mind you, that's never going to happen if you flail around randomly.

If you need practice, do so in offline mode, but you need to play smart and from my experience, the biggest difficulty is in locating your target. Compare this to your reported bad gunplay experience, some of it may be due to server issues, which are to be expected, unfortunately. From what I've seen, if there's no desync, naked people tend to die in one-two well placed shots. If they aren't chances are you're not really hitting anything.

 

 

 

 

 

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Maximus-HeroVI

Dude you share the frustration of many, many players. I totally agree with you.

I haven’t touched a single assault rifle since I started playing this game.

If dev’s concept of surviving is letting us start the game with a knife and a useless pistol, then I will be forced to abandon the game, not because I want to but because I simply cannot survive.

I DECIDE WHAT IT IS FUN TO PLAY OR NOT. NO ASSAULT RIFFLE NO FUN FOR ME. THIS IS NOT A FREE TO PLAY GAME. I ALREADY PAID FOR IT, MORE THAN I PAID FOR PLAYERUNKNOWN'S BATTLEGROUNDS.

I bought the game because like you said “I've seen videos of the game really shining”. I was so excited thinking I would use those cool weapons with those scopes in this game. But I got badly disappointed.

Hope devs make the necessary changes otherwise this game will be like “those games” to me.

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bookcoda

Hollow-point Markov bullets are love hollow-point Markov bullets are life.

My advice is to do allot of research on different mechanics makes your life much easier.

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necuja

@CaptainMarksman I didn't read everything people replied as there's a lot of forum to cover, but I wanted to give some insight to some issues I saw you had.

We have gathered maps together to help players have an instant place to have detailed custom made maps. 

The ai is being reworked as we speak there is issues with them being op and devs have acknowledged this.

Damage models not registering is due to desync we are facing from overloaded servers, or players connecting to servers that create high ping rate

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The desync has gotten so bad that I have been getting killed by what seems like invisible people because they havnt even registered peaking around the corner... I want to say im not complaining, but desync has been a issue for a WHILE now.

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It is a very difficult game to feel out... first of all IF you can even get into a match (which I've only been able to do 4 out of the 52 hours I've had access) you'll almost immediately be murdered by someone just camping the spawn... and you might know to try to shoot them first if you had any clue if they were friend or foe..

 

So now I'm still level 1 , and basically have no starting loot left... I find it worthless to spend all this loot on a new gun that will just be immediately lost anyways. Honestly with offline mode offering no benefits (besides learning maps and OP AI), and an online game-server being 98% impossible to get in, it makes this whole game rather worthless so far.

 

I have to say I love this game... Gun mechanics, realism, the setup of the game overall is amazing and new(ish)... but just immediately being murdered for the only shitty rifle I owned and is likely 100% lost is aggravating at best. Even with the 1 pistol I have left there's no way I will out fire-fight someone with an automatic rifle unless I camped spawns like everyone else

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terrorhawx

I was very much looking forward to this game. But the last 24 hours have been miserable.

 

-As a scav, I have died to player scavs immediately upon spawning in 7 of 7 times now.

-I was stuck in a disconnect loop for 10 hours

-I have not moved more than 6 feet from spawn, ever. Even as a PMC.

-I died within 15 seconds of spawning in, then it takes 5-10 minutes to find a match

-Repeat all of the above.

 

So far I am severely regretting funding this game... I cant play it. My last 3 deaths have been where I spawned. and that is AFTER all of the bugs and disconnects are bypassed. 

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Stick with it terrorhawx... things will level out and other things made more clear.

 

I finally got lucky enough to be with another player scav that wanted to at least kind of work together lol.

 

I just wish for us who can't even seem to get in a real online game, that they'd allow the offline mode to do SOMETHING for my character.... anything really. I just have no way of getting new items the way it is, and I certainly can't beat a whole server of teamed up and fully geared out players with my shitty starter pistol 

 

It is very aggravating, but it will get better... unlike a lot of other promising 'early access' games these devs seem to actually be fixing stuff

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very good post. Hope the devs read and consider it.

 

Ive played a lot and know the maps, but i remember the first few times. My only advise for new people is go on discord and get a good team. that helps a lot and you learn from them.

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Add to that the fact that Alpha testers got to keep items from offline playing right? So those guys were able get keys for dorms or exits or shortcuts without having to worry about losing their last pistol and water bottle lol. With no team or good guns it's almost impossible to get to the key locations or to fight off groups of scabs with only a pistol.

 

I'm all for difficult, but at a certain point its impossible unless you get very lucky. Unlike the AI (which hasn't been fixed) I can't no scope headshot someone with a makarov at 150 yards 

 

I'm still going to play the hell out of this game though, it has so much promise, and I think it's going to get there

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terrorhawx

I wouldn't mind dying to someone if I could get into a match again. Currently, I have to wait 5-10 minutes to find a match. Which means, in an hour worth of my time, I am lucky get in 1 minute of in game action...

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Welcome to tarkov

This isnt going to be easy and its not going to be fun when you lose. but thats why you're here.

Edited by Takazaki
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-Fergus-
On 8/9/2017 at 4:14 AM, CaptainMarksman said:

 

In the game's current state, it's not fun to play. It might be, if guns were more common or viable to be used in a match. Or if you had SOME indication of where you are going. At this point though, there's never a reason to use a gun, never a reason to enjoy the fun gun mechanics that are in the game. It's not viable. Maybe when you're 10, 20, or 30 hours into the game it is. But when you're starting out, the game is boring. Players won't want to stay for 10 or 20 hours when it's not fun in the beginning.

 

 

The thing is, you have to invest some time into this game to make progress, but it isn't much. Loot is incredibly easy to get right now, and it will be toned down eventually. I'm level 37 and have 3,000,000 roubles and $14,000 that I can't spend on anything, because my inventory is literally filled to the brim with weapons and armor.

The scavenger cooldown should remain at an hour, and probably will. When you play as a scavenger, you are given free loot without the threat of AI. If you run around and expect people to be friendly, that's completely your fault. If you want to learn the map and explore, play in offline mode.

Every weapon is viable, and there will not be any balancing to even out the differences the weapons have. Each weapon has it's own situational advantage, just like real life, which you need to learn. An SV98 is no match against a makarov, if the shooter is inexperienced. Use a shotgun or smg for really close quarters and learn weapon modification to fine tune it for your needs. You'd be surprised how good an AK is in close quarters with the proper modifications.

The current armor system is indeed horrible, and it is being reworked right now. That is why the fort armor has been taking out of the loot tables. The hit registry also isn't the best of the bunch, but that's due to change soon. The priority right now is to deal with the desync and add new servers to at least create play-ability for those who have connection issues.

I have to disagree in the part where the hatchet/knife is useless, because it is absolutely not. That's how I made my fortune. I went on hatchet runs on factory, looted the chests, and extracted after getting a kill for the XP bonus. The AI is ridiculously easy to kill now, even with a hatchet. I did however have the Factory key while doing this, which played a huge role in being able to extract everywhere, and having access to an extra loot room in factory.

Summarized, you need to invest time into a game like this to make it, absolutely. You can't just play an hour on and an hour off each day and expect to have the best loot and learn how to master the weapons properly. In fact, you don't even get the mastery bonuses from the weapons if you don't play with them regularly, and they can play a significant role in weapon handling. You need to have a particular interest in this type of game to really enjoy it, which I have. I do see the potential, and how it's grown, and I'm completely invested in it with 40 hours played since the Beta hit, and more before the Beta.


I regularly see people who fail to give it a chance, even close friends. They die over and over and get frustrated by losing something as simple as an AK or M4. They blame the game, then quit playing it before even making anything remotely close to progress. What they all fail to see though, is how the developers can't sh*t out content and fixes to everyone at request. Video-games take time, and a ton of patience. BSG isn't a studio which is remotely close to comparable with Ubisoft, EA or Blizzard, which people frequently imply to believe.

Trust me, once you get used to the ridiculous deaths and loss of gear, It becomes very playable. 
 

Edited by -Fergus-
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Extractions are quite easy to find, by just following the borders of the map. Also if any new players want to play with me, I can teach you the maps and share some other useful information. Just message me (EU region).

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Tips/information to newer players:

-Play and practice maps in offline mode, this will help you learn the map, get a feel for the weapons, how to handle and react to AI (to a point), and find exit points.

-Offline mode you can take guns and gear out and practice with not worrying about losing them (ONLY IN OFFLINE).

-Buy maps from trader, limited info but still helpful.

-This is a testing Beta with bugs, not a AAA studio "pre-sell Beta" that releases 3 weeks before the full game launch. (You will find bugs and glitches, report them and file bug reports it will help the Devs.)

-This is a game where you will loss items and will have to invest time in.

- Use online sources: Kotton- EFT Bad ass and helpful guy: (his EFT videos)-https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRk4nqaZctzbbA2NFA9s2rt02w9nPBM1l

Klean & WillerZ Boot camp Videos-(VERY Helpful)-https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJ1TewoP2hHJnA-JWLvLNAg/videos?shelf_id=1&view=0&sort=dd

 

Edited by mag_steve
Edit: added info.
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