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The Karma System


ViscontiRogue

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ViscontiRogue

Perhaps I haven't learned or gather enough information about the upcoming Karma system, but my current understanding is this: Killing scavs and opposite PMC players gives you good karma, while killing friendly PMC players gives you negative karma. 

If this understanding of what the Karma system is mostly going to be, can someone explain how this would work in an effective way in EFT?

Since it is rather difficult to distinguish PMC factions unless there is a clear line of sight, and enough time to make an assessment of another players team, it seems incredibly risky to leave yourself vulnerable and open to fire. I would hate to be shot and lose my gear for the sake of "not losing karma" because another player took advantage of a precious second.

Would a karma system really encourage players to refrain from shooting another player if they are unsure of their faction just because of a negative karma penalty with the stakes high as they are?

Once again, I may not have all the details of how the karma system is planned, but I don't see it stopping the majority of players from firing on others when it's such a risk.

What are your thoughts and do you think a karma system will help or not work? 

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i think that this whole karma thing is one of the , if not the, most challenging balance issue battlestate has to face, and unless they come up with the smartest system to date, this will end in good old KOS.

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the exact details, like explained multiple times, are not laid out. all we know is that if you kill someone of same faction you will be penalized for it. there will be changes later on the make it easier to tell your faction apart from others so this isnt a problem tho.

speculation shows that bad karma will affect how you trade with traders and how you deal with other players, but until we see the feature about to be implemented we just dont know 100% what will come with it

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Kotton the streamer laid out good ideas for negitive karma and it went along the lines of the higher in negitive you are the less good loot you recieve when opening boxes, searching scavs, and also could gain a mental loss of like guilt where your player starts to become crazy and shout from the ptsd of killing a team member which in turn makes for an easy person to find or give a chance per round chambered to jam depending on karma state eg good karma never jam, really bad karma jams up multiple times per gunfight.

 

Just depends on if karma is carried over from match to match though if not then it may not be effective.

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6 минут назад, deathopz сказал:

Kotton the streamer laid out good ideas for negitive karma and it went along the lines of the higher in negitive you are the less good loot you recieve when opening boxes, searching scavs, and also could gain a mental loss of like guilt where your player starts to become crazy and shout from the ptsd of killing a team member which in turn makes for an easy person to find or give a chance per round chambered to jam depending on karma state eg good karma never jam, really bad karma jams up multiple times per gunfight.

Kotton is good player and decent streamer but all ideas stated here are terrible IMO. 

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Of course something should be done to make you think, but miraculous weapon jams (imagine brand new weapon in neat condition), crappy loot and other stuff - that's not the way to go in a hardcore game. 

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Underhook
4 minutes ago, deathopz said:

Kotton the streamer laid out good ideas for negitive karma and it went along the lines of the higher in negitive you are the less good loot you recieve when opening boxes, searching scavs, and also could gain a mental loss of like guilt where your player starts to become crazy and shout from the ptsd of killing a team member which in turn makes for an easy person to find or give a chance per round chambered to jam depending on karma state eg good karma never jam, really bad karma jams up multiple times per gunfight.

 

Just depends on if karma is carried over from match to match though if not then it may not be effective.

The karma system is going to be hard to rationalise. I'm not against it but I don't think its possible to make it seem realistic.  It seems likely to me that someone who is happy to kill a team mate for loot is probably a psychopath (IRL, not in the game) and unlikely to be stressed by the event.

Maybe they could make it so they walk differently or hold their weapon in a slightly different position, so that over time we would learn to identify team killers.  I cant think of a logical reason why but then karma isn't a logical concept.

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3 minutes ago, Underhook said:

The karma system is going to be hard to rationalise. I'm not against it but I don't think its possible to make it seem realistic.  It seems likely to me that someone who is happy to kill a team mate for loot is probably a psychopath (IRL, not in the game) and unlikely to be stressed by the event.

Maybe they could make it so they walk differently or hold their weapon in a slightly different position, so that over time we would learn to identify team killers.  I cant think of a logical reason why but then karma isn't a logical concept.

Karma is bad luck and good luck so you can't just make the character look like it is a team killer. The things listed have chances of things happening aswell your character may very well kill 2 to 3 faction members without anything happening because it could be random, but when it does happen it'll be an unpleasant experience for the team killer I trust bsg will choose the right implimentations.

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Underhook
1 minute ago, deathopz said:

Karma is bad luck and good luck so you can't just make the character look like it is a team killer. The things listed have chances of things happening aswell your character may very well kill 2 to 3 faction members without anything happening because it could be random, but when it does happen it'll be an unpleasant experience for the team killer I trust bsg will choose the right implimentations.

1.  Karma isn't real.  Its a concept that some people believe in.  As far as I am aware it has nothing to do with luck.  It is the belief that if you do good things then good things will happen to you and if you do bad things then bad things will happen to you.  So its not random.  Its pretty much the opposite of luck (totally random).

2.  If you looked like a team killer that would be bad luck wouldn't it?   (Ha ha, just having fun) :)

Yes, I also trust that BSG will come up with something decent.  I just don't think anybody will be able to have it make sense because .... karma doesn't make sense.

 

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ViscontiRogue

One of the points I was trying to make was when you have mere seconds to make a decision to shoot at another player, by the time you make the realization they are an enemy PMC, or friendly, it could be to late, and now you are dead and your gear gone, all because of instead of shooting first, you were more concerned with receiving a possible "bad karma". Even if it was a friendly, there's no guarantee that they will recognize you as a friendly and have already opened fire on you, thus having the advantage of firing first and quite possibly inflicting injury and death, once again resulting in lost gear. 

The concern that I was trying to make was would a karma system make it more of a concern of maintaining "good karma" instead of staying alive at all costs ( like the character description says in game)?

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ViscontiRogue

Also, panic can be a real factor for shooting first. Turn a corner, there's someone with a shotgun right in front of you, pointed at you. Do you choose to take a look at his cloths first, determine if scav bot, scav player or do you just automatically try and put them down?

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15 hours ago, ViscontiRogue said:

Also, panic can be a real factor for shooting first. Turn a corner, there's someone with a shotgun right in front of you, pointed at you. Do you choose to take a look at his cloths first, determine if scav bot, scav player or do you just automatically try and put them down?

As I stated, it will probably be a system to where you need to kill more scavs and opposite pmc faction and as long as you do more of than an accidental kill of your own pmc faction you shouldn't feel any of the bad karma is what I imagine, but if you killed lets say only your faction 3 times and maybe you need to kill 6 to 9 scavs and opposite pmc to bring you back from the bad karma maybe like a positive experience gain for doing the right thing then negitive for killing your own faction.

I mean every match so far there are more scavs than players so you could "patch up" your negitive karma by killing scavs before the raid ended or maybe extraction gives positive karma too to help patch it even more.

If you have ever played infamous where you kill civilians and you gain experience towards being a bad guy or kill bad guys to become a good guy its a similar system of what I was thinking about.

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