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Biggerfoot

Add civilian M4s-m16s

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5 hours ago, Deadmode said:

That's not what I was saying at all.

What I was saying is that Russian and European civilian weaponry would be more likely in the setting of the game, rather than American AR15s.

So the American AR15 rifles could be present because of USEC being there. Some ditched their rifles in favor of others or sold/traded them in.

Then we have old AR15 rifles in the trader circulation.

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2 hours ago, Rybec said:

So the American AR15 rifles could be present because of USEC being there. Some ditched their rifles in favor of others or sold/traded them in.

Then we have old AR15 rifles in the trader circulation.

I do think we'll eventually get some kind of Civilian 5,56x45mm weapon, I just don't think it'll be anytime soon

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On 05/12/2017 at 7:41 PM, Biggerfoot said:

I feel like the ak-74n has civilian versions so the m4 should as well like the m16a1 m16a3 in single fire modes/ burst fire modes. 

The 74n hasn't got any civ variants in the game, only the akm has civ variants in the game.
 

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On 12/6/2017 at 12:59 PM, THE_GHOST-23 said:

If it has a burst fire mode it is not a civilian version; not in the US any way 1 trigger pull = 3 rounds = illegal in the US. Also the M16 is not the civilian version of the M4..... the M4 is an adaptation of the M16. Additional the A1 is terrible I would rather see A2 and the A4 // I would also like to see the XM177.  Also the A1 is not a burst weapon only semi, and the A3 is Semi / Full Auto.

The M16,A1 and A3 are select fire semi/auto, the A2 and A4 are semi/burst, the AR-15 is a semi automatic only rifle. There are also aftermarket 4 position selectors (safe,semi,burst,auto) available on the market but I don't recall ever reading about the US ever issuing them to a few SF teams although other nations might issue AR's in this configurations.   

4 hours ago, ZFT-Pinkman said:

The 74n hasn't got any civ variants in the game, only the akm has civ variants in the game.
 

I hope they add one, they do have the little 10 rounder magazines for it in game.

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Well AR15s are not that rare in russia or anyother "europen" country. Its loads of IPSC shooters that uses ar15s ofc its more common with a AK in russia but ar15s is not like unrealisc to find. I would love a cz75  also a cz70 32 acp would be cool and ofc a h&K G3.

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AR-15 is what you're looking for and YES that would be awesome, I don't want to play with m4's because it never fails that I die in 12 seconds when I use nice gear but can go on a 13 win spree using junk gear so having a cheap semi-auto option would be fabulous 

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On 12/9/2017 at 12:30 AM, Keter said:

. . . You're correct about the fact that if it's burst it's illegal. Anything more than one round fired on a single trigger pull in one direction is illegal without being registered as a fully automatic weapon. Aside from that though. . . How on earth is the A1 terrible? If you aren't going to be using optics or any accessories, only the bare stock gun, the A1 is actually an arguably superior form than the A2 or A4. Depending on your preference, of course, but the A1 is accurate, reliable, and extremely light weight, and besides that, it has a shorter stock rather than the A2 stock which many people agree is just a tad too long for infantry use. It's a perfectly good weapon, on the whole. 

Regardless of that, are you suggesting the A1 is a semi automatic only weapon? Because. . . That would completely defeat the entire point of the concept of an "Assault Rifle." The point of the format is to be able to provide both accurate single shot fire, and rapid, controllable automatic fire. All modern military infantry rifles are fully automatic. Full stop. Only specialized support role weapons like DMR's are semi-auto only. . . And even then, many of them have the fun switch regardless. 

As far as the variants. . . The A1 and A3 variant do both have standard full auto fire, while the A2 and A4 variants are semi/burst. 

I have only ever seen the M16A2 (Semi-Burst) used in a traditional Army Unit. (Yes the US Army also has M4s (Semi-Auto). A2 is superior to the A1. Reason; (Stock is also 10x stronger on the A2 it has wind and distance on the rear sight, and the 3 round burst over full auto because inexperienced troops often hold down the trigger and "spray" when under fire. The U.S. Army concluded that three-shot groups provide an optimum combination of ammunition conservation, accuracy, and firepower, which is way they switched all the M16s over to the A2 variants.) Also traditional infantry units do more training with semi over full auto. Side Notes;The M16 is considered a DMR. "AR" stands for Armalite not assault rifle.

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41 minutes ago, THE_GHOST-23 said:

I have only ever seen the M16A2 (Semi-Burst) used in a traditional Army Unit. (Yes the US Army also has M4s (Semi-Auto). A2 is superior to the A1. Reason; (Stock is also 10x stronger on the A2 it has wind and distance on the rear sight, and the 3 round burst over full auto because inexperienced troops often hold down the trigger and "spray" when under fire. The U.S. Army concluded that three-shot groups provide an optimum combination of ammunition conservation, accuracy, and firepower, which is way they switched all the M16s over to the A2 variants.) Also traditional infantry units do more training with semi over full auto. Side Notes;The M16 is considered a DMR. "AR" stands for Armalite not assault rifle.

Well, the reason why you only see the M16A2 and above used is because that's the package that's being produced. You'll occasionally see A1 receivers and parts being used on base and so on, but in the field you'll only see the latest products, regardless of whether or not they're considered superior. 

As far as the A2 goes, yes, the furniture is absolutely stronger. Modern polymers are far better than what they had back then. But the general design isn't necessarily better, and according to most people with experience using both, the consensus I've seen is that the A1 is better as far as length of pull goes. The handguard I suppose is probably up to personal preference.

As far as the sights, though it's an unnecessary upgrade, technically speaking, it is essentially a flat out improvement. So long as the soldiers have them properly zeroed and are trained using them, that is. 

Annnnnd. . . The burst mechanism. The problem with the burst mechanism is that it's poorly designed and entirely unnecessary- It's attempting to substitute proper training with a mechanical limitation. Yes, soldiers did end up spraying far too much ammo down range. That was an issue regarding the training of our troops, not the weapon. Limiting your ability to lay down fire isn't a good thing. As well as that, the burst mechanism didn't reset- If you fired off 2 rounds out of one of the bursts, then your next "Burst" trigger pull would only fire a single shot. That's a really bad design and one that produces far too much randomness in your fire. 

Along with that, the design of the burst mechanism meant that your trigger pull weight can change depending on which step in the burst you're on. It's entirely possible to have 3, or even 6 different trigger pulls based on which step of the mechanism you're currently on. That's highly detrimental to accuracy. 

The burst mechanism is objectively inferior. That's a fact. It's why the M4A1 package replaced it with a full auto SEAR instead, because field testing proved that it was a failure. 

The point of having full auto- And the reason why I said "Assault Rifle," not because I thought the "AR" in "AR-15" stood for assault rifle, I'm well aware of that distinction- The point of having full auto is to be able to lay down suppressive fire when necessary, and for every man in a unit to be capable of this. Semi-auto is essentially reserved for actually making hits and for the vast majority of combat. As you've said, most infantry units train for semi auto rather than full auto, because in most situations semi auto is preferable. However, in some rare cases such as close quarters and when you need to keep the enemies head down and semi auto won't suffice for that, that's where full auto comes into play. 

Now, that stuff you said about 3 round groups being best in most cases is true. That's exactly why the burst mechanism was a failure. Because it's entirely possible that when you try to use a three round burst, you could end up with a 2 or a 1 round "Burst." As well as that, there are some situations that a soldier will know they need more than that and that will be an educated decision, and in those situations the soldier would be incapable of firing more. It's a limitation, one which simply training your soldiers more would render unnecessary. 

My apologies for how unorganized this might be, I've not got a whole lot of time to respond to you, so I'm doing the best I can with what I have. 

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On 11/12/2017 at 4:43 AM, Thodin said:

Well AR15s are not that rare in russia or anyother "europen" country. Its loads of IPSC shooters that uses ar15s ofc its more common with a AK in russia but ar15s is not like unrealisc to find. I would love a cz75  also a cz70 32 acp would be cool and ofc a h&K G3.

Some russian spec ops use G3's, would be up there with the SKS as well in terms of power.

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6 hours ago, ZFT-Pinkman said:

Some russian spec ops use G3's, would be up there with the SKS as well in terms of power.

Well. . . Not really. The SKS uses 7.62x39, which is far less powerful than the 7.62x54r that it was based on. The 7.62x39 was actually pretty much nothing but a chopped down 7.62x54r. 

And the 7.62x54r is generally comparable to the .308 which the G3 uses. 

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We should definitely get semi auto AR15s, as they are available in Russia and Europe, whether imported or domestic made. They are also MORE common with PMCs rather than full auto since PMCs are usually civilian contractors, hence the private part in "private military corp". Many do not have government permissions for full auto and will bring private firearms over seas like semi auto AKs or ARs. Hell many even use the HK91/93 series rifles and SCARs or ACRs in semi auto. Remember people, there will be over 250 weapons, probably more than 300, so many options should be explored and considered, common or rare. image.thumb.jpeg.726d22b89b4c8b433581c87a01fbb9e3.jpeg

7 hours ago, ZFT-Pinkman said:

Some russian spec ops use G3's, would be up there with the SKS as well in terms of power.

The 7.62x51mm round has 2600-3000 ft lbs of energy, and the 7.62x39 is around 1500 ft lbs. Not very similar at all, although you can carry more rounds of x39 in the same space as a .308/7.62x51.

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On 12/5/2017 at 1:41 PM, Biggerfoot said:

I feel like the ak-74n has civilian versions so the m4 should as well like the m16a1 m16a3 in single fire modes/ burst fire modes. 

naaaa, pass on that. I'd rather have something else, like HK417, Ar-10

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Or you could just have a 6th trader whom is a war lord and you can buy left over ww2 arsenal items. Scoped nagants, Enfield's, and m1d's....I think a Thompson or BAR would be cool myself but I know this will never happen.....just saying... Lol

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24 minutes ago, Deathviper said:

Or you could just have a 6th trader whom is a war lord and you can buy left over ww2 arsenal items. Scoped nagants, Enfield's, and m1d's....I think a Thompson or BAR would be cool myself but I know this will never happen.....just saying... Lol

Thompson's, Enfield's and BAR's likely wouldn't be that prevalent in the EFT setting. As far as what could be, Gewehr 43's and Kar 98's (We also already have a Karabiner rifle (The SKS,)) as well as modern G3's might be possible and cool. Those are all German made weapons. We have the modern SV (The 98,) But the SVD Dragunov could be viable (Not a WW2 weapon, but still cold war era production.)

English and American made WW2 weapons I don't think are widely available enough to warrant bringing them into the game, even if there are remnants in modern times.

edit: I realize now the SKS in game is the Soviet-Era one. I am thinking of the Karabiner S which was East Germany's SKS model.

Edited by HTX

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On 12/7/2017 at 4:27 AM, Deadmode said:

OK, so I was proved wrong and that you can get some form of AR in Russia. I'm still gonna argue that its pretty rare and likely to be pointless adding one.

They seem pretty not rare according to these videos from Russian gun owners:

 

 

 

On 12/10/2017 at 9:17 PM, Deadmode said:

That's not what I was saying at all.

What I was saying is that Russian and European civilian weaponry would be more likely in the setting of the game, rather than American AR15s.

We are talking about Russian AR-15s, which do exist and are sold in significant numbers in the Russian Federation to civilians with proper licensing.

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On 2017-12-06 at 6:59 PM, THE_GHOST-23 said:

If it has a burst fire mode it is not a civilian version; not in the US any way 1 trigger pull = 3 rounds = illegal in the US. Also the M16 is not the civilian version of the M4..... the M4 is an adaptation of the M16. Additional the A1 is terrible I would rather see A2 and the A4 // I would also like to see the XM177.  Also the A1 is not a burst weapon only semi, and the A3 is Semi / Full Auto.

M16A1 is Semi and Full Auto

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I see a lot of people want different vairents of the ar15 Ii could be wrong but I think a simpler way to go about that is make two varients the 5.56 and the 7.62 (308). then just add in auto seers for attachments. I know you need a diffetent trigger group as well but just adding the auto seer could make the gun burst, or fullauto depending on the gun. that's just me though

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4 hours ago, koenccx said:

I see a lot of people want different vairents of the ar15 Ii could be wrong but I think a simpler way to go about that is make two varients the 5.56 and the 7.62 (308). then just add in auto seers for attachments. I know you need a diffetent trigger group as well but just adding the auto seer could make the gun burst, or fullauto depending on the gun. that's just me though

That's actually a pretty good idea. Add in a trigger group customization slot, then make various civilian AR-15's with nothing but different receiver decals (For the different manufacturer stampings) that are tied to whatever the name of the weapon is. Each different weapon comes with a different set of accessories and parts, based on what the actual civilian weapons have. At this point, you can just customize the civilian weapon as you please, adding in different accessories, different trigger groups. . . You could have really good civilian trigger groups like Geissele's, maybe even military auto-sear Geissele triggers for upgraded mil-spec guns. 

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On 12/15/2017 at 10:19 AM, HTX said:

Thompson's, Enfield's and BAR's likely wouldn't be that prevalent in the EFT setting. As far as what could be, Gewehr 43's and Kar 98's (We also already have a Karabiner rifle (The SKS,)) as well as modern G3's might be possible and cool. Those are all German made weapons. We have the modern SV (The 98,) But the SVD Dragunov could be viable (Not a WW2 weapon, but still cold war era production.)

English and American made WW2 weapons I don't think are widely available enough to warrant bringing them into the game, even if there are remnants in modern times.

edit: I realize now the SKS in game is the Soviet-Era one. I am thinking of the Karabiner S which was East Germany's SKS model.

Funny thing about those three weapons you listed is that they're actually some of the "more appropriate" non-Soviet WW2 weapons. M1 Thompsons were, I believe, the most common weapons (alongside Colt M1911A1s) sent to the Soviet Union as part of the Lend Lease program, but were very rarely used because .45 ACP was not widely available, and so most were put into storage and stayed there for a long time before being sold as surplus. That's also not to mention the large number of M1928s and M1/M1A1s that were used in Poland or the Baltics or Balkans or all throughout Europe during WW2 and the Cold War and probably funneled their way around. Plus, there aren't too many .45 ACP submachine guns in existence, and that ammo type is confirmed for EFT, so I think it's reasonable that we could see one variant or another.

The B.A.R. was also pretty common, it was adopted by Poland (who also produced their own variant, the Wz.28) and later captured and used by the Soviets. The Finns also used it, as did other countries in the area. It's less reasonable than the Thompson but there was certainly no shortage of them, although I don't think the B.A.R. is as necessary (unlike Thompsons, they aren't appearing all that much in modern conflicts because they're kind of beyond usefulness.) But it's by no means totally unbelievable.

And the Lee-Enfield is just one of the most ubiquitous bolt-action rifles around the globe. Alongside the Mosin-Nagant (and to a lesser degree the Karabiner 98) it's probably the most common bolt-action rifle from WW2 and before you'll still find everywhere. Only issue is the .303 Enfield ammo, which is rather rare in Eastern Europe, and not to mention other guns that use it like the Lewis or Bren or Vickers are also quite rare.

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В 10.12.2017 в 15:20, Krabosa сказал:

Every gun that is in Contract wars will be in EFT. They are also aiming for around 300 different weapons in the game so you can bet some of those will be western rifles lol. For example, the M16A4 is confirmed and MAY be getting released alongside the glock, which is coming soon. Regardless, the M16, Scar, G36, Famas etc are all going to be in the game. Guns take weeks if not months to make in this game which is why we have so few right now.

Prove me wrong, but i think EFT guns is the most detailed and realistic guns i ever saw in the games. Tons of sick animations, a lot of attachments, crazy system of customization, real sounds and etc, just for one weapon. I mean, is there any shooter that doing such a hard work just for the guns?

Edited by Darth_Baiter

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