varenvel

PVE mode , hear me out

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Im writing this post for few reasons , this opinion is probably very unpopular one within current player base, but game very advertises itself as survival , team oriented faction scav vs PMC but...nothing as i am aware , seen in lets plays actually exists

There is no team play , so far most time i died as scav , is by being shot by another scav and same PMC being shot by another PMC , why have factions at all if it does not make any sense , no repercussions for killing other player for gear no consistency.

 

At least if there was PVE mode some of it could still exist as currently i dont feel  current way of play is nothing more then deathmatch(because you never can trust anyone and people are only encouraged to kill people within own faction with no consequences , even if world ended , there would be repercussions if people killed people within own faction)

 

it baffles my mind why they even bothered with factions if it "practically" does not exist within game play beyond the menu unless you have friends on voice chat factions could as well not exist and be it "be or be killed" without any factions.

 

i really hate to bringup dayz...but even in dayz who was fully "me vs everyone" understood there needs to be morality system of some kind , of "hero and bandit"

 

my proposition of pve mode would be:

-100% separate from main game mode , gear , skills , nothing carries over to other mode

-Team play is rewarded , team killing is heavily punished

-Scavs have better gear in some areas

-More scavs , but no player scavs

-it would be like alternative universe , or some could say.."tutorial"

Edited by varenvel
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They already have the technology.  They should use it for this. The more "game modes" and play styles they support the more games they will sell.  The dev's they can hire to make the game better.  The more games they can sell.

Honestly, I would like to see:

 

Main Tarkov, a lot like it is now with some tweaks.  This has it's MT (Main Tarkov) player save.

Offline mode that uses MT.  Just like it is now.  Lets you take out some gear, test it out.  You lose nothing, you gain nothing.

Offline Co-Op mode with MT character.  This allows you and your buddies to go into a match and play all you want.  You gain nothing, you lose nothing.

Completely new OT (Offline Tarkov) save.  This is completely seperate from the Main Tarkov game.  Allow an editor.  Give players make trader levels.  Start them with 3 money cases full of money.  Let this be a fun mode that has zero effect on the real game at all.  Can be played in Co-Op mode with friends with the same OT save.  Can even be played with no internet connection at all.

 

This can all be accomplished with very little effort from the Dev's and could cause a huge increase in the number of sales of the game.  It would NOT take away from the main game at all.  It would have zero effect on all of the "Hardcore" guys out there.  No reason what so ever not to do it.  

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The development team intend to implement a karma system to dissuade team killing - I'd advise looking on the forum for the admittedly small amount of information out there. Since this is going to be implemented your PvE mode falls through. Also, the devs are committed to not allowing a PvE mode after release.

Edited by DesertGhillie

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i dont think its enough at any rate , current game mods as scav: spawn , get kiled by another scav(human controled) 10-30 seconds in(often 1 shoted) , from 12 spawns so far as bandit , i died 2 times before loading screen faded , 7 times within 30 seconds , 2 times i survived long enough to see other faction  once i evacuated because i spawned with better gun , kiled other scav and got to evac zone instantly

 

as for normal "spawning" seeing how easily you die i wont use my gear so far to spawn at all but skirmish with placing of AI has same problem

 

i played almost all dayz clones and survival games , this game feels really like fake deathmatch and feels unrewarding

 

i had fun in "offline mode" to better extent then online but nothing carries over , i would not mind really if inventory was separate or even "local only" i could have fun and test the game , now i cant even test it properly to give any insights because "game is limiting me" and not really rewarding my any efforts to even try

 

especially i found out scav XP dont carries over ether(why you even gain it then and get screen saying you get xp)

Edited by varenvel

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9 hours ago, varenvel said:

There is no team play , so far most time i died as scav , is by being shot by another scav and same PMC being shot by another PMC , why have factions at all if it does not make any sense , no repercussions for killing other player for gear no consistency.

 

 

You are playing an unfinished version of what is to be.

Things that are coming (all from the interview with Nikita (COO)): 

  • Quote

     

    • The gameplay will be further adjusted in order to ensure the greater extent of players’ interactions with each other without not restricting the freedom, but only after optimization and other technical aspects are ready.
    • Friend-or-foe recognition will be carried out by means or armbands automatically assigned to the group members on spawn in the location. These armbands will be visible to all players, possibly, the group leader will be able to choose their colors (Note: yes, apparently will be a chance of same same color being selected by different groups, that will be quite interesting).

    • There will be an elaborate and diverse clan system, taking into account the wishes of the clans themselves. Clan leader, possibly, will be able to hand out tasks to the clan, for example, for the extraction of certain items. Maybe, however, this feature won’t be provided by the game mean (but no one can stop the clan leader from issuing an order, e.g., for stashing batteries).
    • Most likely players will have the opportunity to give out quests and assign rewards for them through the trade system.
    • Story-related quests, on the other hand, will be as close as possible to "singleplayer" quests, rather than the usual online find/kill/fetch, and they will be hidden, so it will be hard to figure out which quest is being solved by the player, though, if the player, for example, hangs around the armored vehicle, there is a chance he’s placing a beacon there.
    • Karma will affect diseases and other unpleasant things.
    • Coop PVE is unrealistic, this just can't be in real life, and therefore it has no place in EFT.

     

    source: 


    This all including VOIP. Please keep this in mind as you evaluate the current rendition of Escape From Tarkov.

 

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"Coop PVE is unrealistic, this just can't be in real life, and therefore it has no place in EFT."

current form we are playing is not more realistic then my proposition

i am aware that realism is big part but coop would not go much away from realism

Having scavs be players is less realistic even then my predictions , free guns , random spawn out of nowhere on battlefield is not "very realistic" , in my proposition they would be just AI and players fighting "them"

I am aware you going for "hardcore survival" but road is far , and this is probably most unfun beta game i played in 12 years as not only "your said realism" is limiting and very count intuative (as currently its extremly selective) but current lack of implementation of , PVE mode would seam like salvation , especialy local one , it would make servers less overburdened , loot could be local or "separate" from main mode

 

people or at least some would able to test far more , how i can even test anything as even veteran FPS i get 1-2 shoted by my own faction 10-30 seconds after i spawn , as scav , and i would not even to think spawn as PMC as all loot would be also lost..within same amount of time due spawning system , how i can test game without playing?

 

it would also appeal to broader audience PVP games dies quicker , there are lots examples of that and most 1-3 year old or older games are not played because "coop" because that population dies quickest but "coop" ones last the longest

Edited by varenvel

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16 minutes ago, varenvel said:

1. current form we are playing is not more realistic then my proposition

2. [...] this is probably most unfun beta game i played in 12 years

 

The "current form we are playing" is work in progress. Many mechanics are unfinished, SCAV-bosses, animations for healing, Karma-system, et cetera. - your criticisms certainly are valid in your subjective view of what you want EFT to be; but Battlestate aren't making "your version" of EFT, they are designing and making theirs. I appreciate your perspective, but as far as I can tell by reading posts by developers and my general impression, a PvE-version of EFT simply is NOT going to happen.

Personally, I choose to not play games that I find "unfun". Escape From Tarkov, even in its current state, is very much in line with what I want in a game, and I can't wait to see what else the devs have in store for us.

 

 

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I whole heartedly would LOVE this. 

There is no reason why not. It doesn't detract from the main PvP game play. 

Why not appeal to both sides? Want better loot and rewards? play PvP. Want a more laid back not stupid brutal version? play PvE.

seriously the PvE offline mode is fun, if not more fun, that PvP. I think they would be missing a huge opportunity to appeal to a wider audience. 

 

Edited by bigbacon
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21 minutes ago, tobiassolem said:

 

The "current form we are playing" is work in progress. Many mechanics are unfinished, SCAV-bosses, animations for healing, Karma-system, et cetera. - your criticisms certainly are valid in your subjective view of what you want EFT to be; but Battlestate aren't making "your version" of EFT, they are designing and making theirs. I appreciate your perspective, but as far as I can tell by reading posts by developers and my general impression, a PvE-version of EFT simply is NOT going to happen.

Personally, I choose to not play games that I find "unfun". Escape From Tarkov, even in its current state, is very much in line with what I want in a game, and I can't wait to see what else the devs have in store for us.

 

 

i was too when i signed up in beta but trailer is much different from reality where current game is and i still think PVE mode or "local play" would do much harm , especially with separate loot , while i understand main appeal of present players realism is just an ascetic , meanwhile battlefront 2 micro transactions fiasco EA blamed on "starwars canon"

 

on end of the day having "extra game mode" would not hurt would it? especially it would please other side of coin and earn the game more money

 

reason why im poking it , "local mode" is already there , and from what i can see with halted rewards , maybe implementing "separate inventory for local/pve" would not be that hard to implement and more players would play test , and also more players would play , and i almost sure bored hardcore PVP may would try "other mode"

 

and i get realism apeal , i played DayZ mod and standalone , i played arma3 dayz equivalent ripoff mod , i played dark souls , i played men of war asault squad(whos RTS who is more realistic then maybe even arma) but game play is more valuable , sometimes compromise is better

Edited by varenvel

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I wholeheartedly do not want a PVE mode, or any mode that allows for handholding while you loot.

 

If you are being killed in 10-30 seconds, you need to change how you play this game.  The point of a survival game is survival, not "rush the crates and see if we can throw something in our secure containers before being killed."

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+1 from me for an organized PvE setting. I think some matchmaking co-op would feel awesome. A different character than PvP, map objectives. Maybe a timer to reach a certain extraction point before it changes to another one. events and what not. I think there's a lot of potential in even a bare-bone PvE

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20 minutes ago, Fronk said:

I wholeheartedly do not want a PVE mode, or any mode that allows for handholding while you loot.

 

If you are being killed in 10-30 seconds, you need to change how you play this game.  The point of a survival game is survival, not "rush the crates and see if we can throw something in our secure containers before being killed."

why does it matter to you? You get to continue to play the PvP mode while others would get to play the PvE mode. they would be completely separate from one another? 

There is no hand holding going on. 

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10 minutes ago, varenvel said:

on end of the day having "extra game mode" would not hurt would it? especially it would please other side of coin and earn the game more money

Well, actually they have addressed this already. I see several flaws in the info you are using as a basis for your opinion:

1- EFT Has survival elements, but it is not a game about survival. The DEVs have said this. Sure you could say that having to escape the raids alive counts as 'Survival', and you would be right, but that is not the main aim of EFT. You cannot simply give a classification to a game based on ONE aspect and ignore all the others. As per the DEVs: 

Quote

"EFT is not about survival, although such elements of gameplay are more than abundant. EFT is a game about combat situations in dangerous conditions, where degree of the player involvement and knowledge play a very important role. Expertise in operation and modification of weapons, orienteering skills, tactical training, control over speed and body position, team work under different weather conditions and time of day, aptitude in non-standard combat environment and many more - all these skills and knowledge, all these unpredictable variables are involved in the creation of the EFT unique combat situations." (Link)

They have tried to classify EFT, and weren't able to. EFT is a game that combines aspects from many genres into one. It's not a game that can be compared to DayZ or Rust or Arma as a whole. You can compare certain aspects of it that overlap with other games but this hardly does it any justice as a finished product (which it is not yet). Just because other games did those aspects differently does not mean that the EFT DEVs should follow what they did.

 

2- The main issue is that what they are trying to accomplish with EFT is not 'Mainstream'. IE, it is not meant for a wide audience. They will not compromise their vision. Sure they care about their customers but they will not change the game around to please every single one of them.

Quote

NIM: The pre-alpha gameplay you showcased looks pretty hardcore. Aren’t you afraid to scare off wide audience
N.B.: We did not intend to make the game for wide audience, and everything we are doing in it is aimed at creating the sense of reality for the player, and sense of total immersion. If you want to aim - aim down the sights. Want to know how many rounds you have left - memorize and count, or look them up through the witness holes in the mag. Or, alternatively, open the inventory and look it up there. (Smiles.) 

Quote

Tarkov is not a game for everyone. The audience is older, and it's cool, the initial aim was on people aged around 30. Online medium is rather small, peak is 4500-5000 servers (not players, servers!), but what matters here is not the quantity but the quality of the audience. (link)

 

3- Extra game modes require extra resources to run.  I remember they mentioned that third person servers would be possible, but that they would not affect the progression of the main game (like how you can't bring stuff from offline mode). However, they addressed the issue in one of the Developer interviews. They mentioned that having servers for separate game modes would require their own pool of servers. The same can apply to a coop PVE mode. While they have not said NO to having separate servers, they did say no to the PVE mode, so i do not see this happening. It's not as simple as most people think. 

Quote
  • Games without keeping the loot (training mode) - there is a problem with hardware, because it requires a separate pool of servers. Theoretically, this can be implemented, it’s not a No yet, the issue is in technical limitations. 
  • Coop PVE is unrealistic, this just can't be in real life, and therefore it has no place in EFT.

(link)

 

4- You are making a Faulty Comparison. You are taking the intended result of the development process (the aim for realism) and comparing it to the current unfinished state of the game, specially when the game itself tells you it is unfinished and does not represent the final version. Just because it is lacking in the realism aspect right now is not an excuse or justification for adding something the DEVs consider to be unrealistic.

BETA.thumb.png.7a9005e14b3c5a694b4c64395cdf9d30.png

 

I understand where you are coming from. i really do. But you have to understand the DEVs plan and vision. That is the game they are committing to.

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EFT is tricky to understand, because nothing in it regarding the gameplay, is obviously shown to players. There are no teams, punishment for TK, scoretable and tickets. Yet the more I play it and the more I think about the common goal/purpose behind such design decisions, the more I see that it really is a coop with a twist: you have to arrange your team on your own and the enemy is a mix of AI and loose players.

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11 hours ago, varenvel said:

Im writing this post for few reasons , this opinion is probably very unpopular one within current player base, but game very advertises itself as survival , team oriented faction scav vs PMC but...nothing as i am aware , seen in lets plays actually exists

There is no team play , so far most time i died as scav , is by being shot by another scav and same PMC being shot by another PMC , why have factions at all if it does not make any sense , no repercussions for killing other player for gear no consistency.

 

At least if there was PVE mode some of it could still exist as currently i dont feel  current way of play is nothing more then deathmatch(because you never can trust anyone and people are only encouraged to kill people within own faction with no consequences , even if world ended , there would be repercussions if people killed people within own faction)

 

it baffles my mind why they even bothered with factions if it "practically" does not exist within game play beyond the menu unless you have friends on voice chat factions could as well not exist and be it "be or be killed" without any factions.

 

i really hate to bringup dayz...but even in dayz who was fully "me vs everyone" understood there needs to be morality system of some kind , of "hero and bandit"

 

my proposition of pve mode would be:

-100% separate from main game mode , gear , skills , nothing carries over to other mode

-Team play is rewarded , team killing is heavily punished

-Scavs have better gear in some areas

-More scavs , but no player scavs

-it would be like alternative universe , or some could say.."tutorial"

TLDR: We are playing a test build with ALOT of place holder ATM. The final game will be nothing like what we are playing. There will be alot of mechanics that are not ingame ATM. (boss scav, karma, persistent health, hideout)

The game is an online PVPVE hardcore shooter with survival aspect. It's not dayz with amazing gunplay. If you ask for a PVE only game, you might have bough the wrong game or simply a lack reseach before buying.

Edited by itsaboutime
more info

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2 minutes ago, halberger said:

EFT is tricky to understand, because nothing in it regarding the gameplay, is obviously shown to players. There are no teams, punishment for TK, scoretable and tickets. Yet the more I play it and the more I think about the common goal/purpose behind such design decisions, the more I see that it really is a coop with a twist: you have to arrange your team on your own and the enemy is a mix of AI and loose players.

All you need to understand is the game is still early and a work in progress all game mechanics and features and reason behind everything still needs to be added to the game.. 

The game indented to be PVPVE there isnt going to be a PVE mode its already been stated many times 

4 minutes ago, itsaboutime said:

TLDR: We are playing a test build with ALOT of place holder ATM. The final game will be nothing like what we are playing. There will be alot of mechanics that are not ingame ATM. (boss scav, karma, persistent health, hideout)

The game is an online PVPVE hardcore shooter with survival aspect. It's not dayz with amazing gunplay. If you ask for a PVE only game, you might have bough the wrong game or simply a lack reseach before buying.

"It's not dayz with amazing gunplay."

are you saying Dayz gun play is amazing as in better then EFT ? are you cray cray lol

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5 minutes ago, Exeagle said:

All you need to understand is the game is still early and a work in progress all game mechanics and features and reason behind everything still needs to be added to the game.. 

The game indented to be PVPVE there isnt going to be a PVE mode its already been stated many times 

"It's not dayz with amazing gunplay."

are you saying Dayz gun play is amazing as in better then EFT ? are you cray cray lol

dude read again lol.

 

EFT is not a DAYZ style game with the amazing EFT gunplay in it.

which mean : EFT is not a pure survival game.

Edited by itsaboutime

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Just now, Exeagle said:

All you need to understand is the game is still early and a work in progress all game mechanics and features and reason behind everything still needs to be added to the game.. 

The game indented to be PVPVE there isnt going to be a PVE mode its already been stated many times 

PVPVE term does not exist , just becouse there are "bots" in your pvp game does not mean its PVE mode in it

 

From gameplay standpoint i would say it is survival game and everything implies it , trailer , all experience i had , ultimately you survive within the harsh brutal word , there is thirst , hunger , its easy to die , feels a bit like DayZ but without zombies(who i find good because DayZ was very inconsistant , it called itself zombie survival where zombies are just placeholders/filler and all game is pvp)

6 minutes ago, halberger said:

EFT is tricky to understand, because nothing in it regarding the gameplay, is obviously shown to players. There are no teams, punishment for TK, scoretable and tickets. Yet the more I play it and the more I think about the common goal/purpose behind such design decisions, the more I see that it really is a coop with a twist: you have to arrange your team on your own and the enemy is a mix of AI and loose players.

i understand main premise of the game , just personally(as gamer who plays games since c64 and beyond) i personalty would say extra game mode would not hurt , it would not leach "half development time" and could be ultimately scraped , if devs were really interested they could make global "pool" how many players would be interested in PVE special separate mode

i seen developers did this and it helped swift development

 

as for "ShiroTenshi" as post is too long to quote , i know its not simple:) i worked on some mods , games , servers before , if they knew how many people would be interest(numbers may surprise you , if noone would be really interested , there would no be questions if people were interested(lets assume half of players would be interested) it would mean potentially 2x copies sold , even if that would need more staff it would pay for itself , if only 15% or less needed it , people would know , and developers could easily say "there is no player base here for this kind of mode"

 

i personally think pools and asking your player base is good thing , especially this is not first...game who completely changed its mind because players said what they want , dont starve never even wanted to implement multilayer , but after finding how lots players want it , they completely rewrite the game , i see lots beta , and early access games communicate and ask player base what they want:) and it helps game become better(getting similar examples is hard as "survival" games genre is still quite something new , like pubG and dayz and hard to classify)

 

i am aware it needs resources and development time , my question is if there is really player base here or outside tarkov who would be interested in this game if it had PVE mode too , as if it was substantial , it would pay for itself and earn bigger more healthy player base.

 

to these who say get better , how you get better if enemy spawns on top of you , you die within 30 seconds , and cool down on being a bandit is 30-50minutes:) i wont sit for 50mins to play again , and for sure i wont risk my gear because enemies literally spawn really close to you on some maps

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i would really love this kind of team based PVE.

 

So much so that i would get a few friends to buy this game.

 

the pvp is currently KOS which is pretty unenjoyable and basically just free for all deathmatch currently. Nothing special. Especially when combined with the extreme lag being expereinced.

 

I hope for much more from this fantastic game and its premise and am waiting to see what the devs bring to the experience.

 

 

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1 hour ago, varenvel said:

i understand main premise of the game , just personally(as gamer who plays games since c64 and beyond) i personalty would say extra game mode would not hurt , it would not leach "half development time" and could be ultimately scraped , if devs were really interested they could make global "pool" how many players would be interested in PVE special separate mode

I started with Atari 65XE :) Oh memories, when games loaded 20 minutes from a tape, if they would want to load at all.

While I also would like the offline mode to be kept, I've read that there are reasons behind it's going to be scrapped:

1) it "blocks" servers for one player at a time, while they could be used by many people at the same moment, which would make the whole system more efficient

2) the developers' vision of the game couldn't be fully realized with AI only - hence the need for human players

3) their resources are limited so they can't make two games at the same time (with players and with AI) since it's going to be more than running around the map after the AI and hoarding loot

It has been said that their next game, Russia 2028, is going to be kind of "single player EFT" but how, when and if is yet to be seen.

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Even though PVE is only here for beta testing part, removing it from final product would be, Devs Shooting themselves in the foot.

Why remove the good part from EFT?  BTW if plenty of players wish PVE to stay in final product then why not let it?

BTW I am fully into PVE having it's OFFLINE progressing system, standalone SinglePlayer experinece. 

Let's say devs decide to remove PVE, so now you only got MP where will you lose you gear all the time, the playes will be leaving the game since no point in playing and grinding when you gonna lose all of it with one death, there is insurance, but higher tier stuff cost more money. DEVs will for sure slip in micro-transactions at some point, where you have to pay real money in order to buy insurance. But people have already bought the game, investing from 35€ to 100€ for this? Plus it will not have a standalone SinglePlayer experience? This will kill the game soon after release. EA would be proud.

Good SinglePlayer is and will be the most important part of video games, if this game with HUGE potential for SinglePlayer experience would cut it out. At current roadmap, this has micro-transactions written all over it. There is no bright future for EFT. 

 

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The resources have already been spent making the PvE portion and the offline.  Why would you throw away a good thing?  Silly in my opinion.  But then again I only owned and help run the four most successful DayZ servers in the world for four years (servers were number 1,2,3,4 for over a year and half of that.)

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I am in favour of offline staying, at least for those < lvl 10

We get the shooting range in release version which allows us to test setups but I really don't think I would still be playing if it wasn't for offline early on.

When I started at closed beta launch I jumped straight in and got very disillusioned with not knowing what to do or how things work. Being able to swallow my pride and go into offline for a few days fighting scavs and learning maps gave me the confidence to try grown up EFT again. Now it is pretty much the only game I play but if hadn't been for offline I would likely have shrugged and put the cost of EOD down to a bad impulse buy.

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14 hours ago, FoxFort said:

Even though PVE is only here for beta testing part, removing it from final product would be, Devs Shooting themselves in the foot.

Why remove the good part from EFT?  BTW if plenty of players wish PVE to stay in final product then why not let it?

BTW I am fully into PVE having it's OFFLINE progressing system, standalone SinglePlayer experinece. 

Let's say devs decide to remove PVE, so now you only got MP where will you lose you gear all the time, the playes will be leaving the game since no point in playing and grinding when you gonna lose all of it with one death, there is insurance, but higher tier stuff cost more money. DEVs will for sure slip in micro-transactions at some point, where you have to pay real money in order to buy insurance. But people have already bought the game, investing from 35€ to 100€ for this? Plus it will not have a standalone SinglePlayer experience? This will kill the game soon after release. EA would be proud.

Good SinglePlayer is and will be the most important part of video games, if this game with HUGE potential for SinglePlayer experience would cut it out. At current roadmap, this has micro-transactions written all over it. There is no bright future for EFT. 

 

very well said.

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14 hours ago, halberger said:

ussia 2028, is going to be kind of "single player EFT" but how, when and if is yet to be seen.

They already have the game then if they just expanded or left PvE in this one...two games in one already.

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