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M4A1

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KhandE
On 2/3/2016 at 7:14 AM, Kiba_Stream said:

We have 20, 30, 45, 60 rds mags and others. Some of them in few variants. CNC, polymer, with ammo control window...

Gun XXX all the way))))

 

Anyway, the real reason I came here was to ask yet another boring question about customization, in this case magazines and ammunition, since you somewhat address magazines here, I'll start.

 

With the "45" round magazines, are these going to be Magpul PMAG Gen3 40s with MBX extenstions or a similar brand?

5gdrLVT.jpg

(Note the straight stands and the coupler in the center piece are optional), the reason I ask is because this and a very similar concept from Coronado arms are the only 45 round 5.56mm magazine systems I'm aware of as they both extend the magazine capacity of the PMAG 40 Gen3s by 5 rounds. (I've also seen 20 and 30 round STANAGs and PMAG Gen 3s ingame but never anything above.)

 

Also, for the "60" you mentioned, will this be the D-60 mini drum also from Magpul? I know of the surefire 60/100 round Coffin/Casket style magazines, but those tend to not work too well from personal experience.

 

magpul-pmag-d-60-ar-m4-5-56x45-nato-drum

 

The second was to ask about ammunition, I had a few questions as the choices ingame and lack therof so far seem....odd. (I know it just entered Beta, but seeing what we may or may not have a chance of seeing would be good.)

 

Some listed Ammunition in 5.56x45mm (I'll mostly not list .223 as, while many guns chambered in 5.56x45mm can fire .223 Remington and vice versa, this isn't always true. It's also doubtful a rich PMC would bring "civilian" ammunition.)

 

Note; The following post is long, kind of boring and contains lots of pictures, it will contain pictures and ballistic gel tests (In lieu of actual real life gunshots due to their obvious disturbing nature) and while it may come off as criticism or things the devs may already know, I just want to do my best to make sure the game ends up as content rich as possible, let's begin.

 

Ok so, so far I've seen M193 Ball and "FMJ" as 2 different rounds ingame and as the only rounds for 5.56mm (though maybe I haven't run into others?) This doesn't really make sense for a number of reasons.

 

1. M193 Ball is literally the exact same thing as an FMJ (M193 is simply a 55gr all lead cored bullet with a copper jacket, pretty standard as far as round design goes), in fact that's basically what FMJs are generally named as in the US Military (who was generally one of the very few major users of M193 in military use) among others, I don't notice any stat differences in game and they have the same MV so it kind of baffles me why these are 2 different rounds. or why they're the main round used for several reasons, allow me to explain.

2. M193, as stated above was mostly only used by the US (at least under that designation, some militaries like the British army used the round under the designation L2A1), and was pulled from service in favor of M855 and later M855A1 quite a long time ago (more on this later) the only real variant of the round that's not a blank/dummy or proof round is M196, which is the tracer variant, these can be identified by the red tip painting.

3. M193 generally isn't very accurate out to longer ranges with M193 due to the barrel twist rates of the M16A2/A4 and the M4/M4A1. (I'll explain later)

4. Basically, the biggest use of M193 these days tends to be that copies of It are dirt cheap compared to most other types of 5.56mm ammunition, the game is set in 2028 right? It just doesn't feel correct that rich PMC orgs would use this. I don't oppose to it being in game per say, but I hope there's more options on the way, anyway, moving on.

 

Some interesting notes, Martin L. Fackler's tests with M193 in ordnance grade gelatin.

 

wund4.gif

 

And some interesting tidbits that, despite It's successor being deemed an "AP" round (when it isn't), M193 will actually defeat steel armor plates that are specifically designed to stop the supposedly better penetrating M855 and M80 7.62x51mm Ball rounds

M193 fragmentation behavior at different velocities.

4212874291_6774d9c7cc.jpg

 

Suggestion: Change the ammo types from M193 Ball and replace M193 "FMJ" with M196 Tracer.

--------------

M855/SS109 "Green Tip"

 

This was the de facto standard in 5.56mm as far as NATO went for quite some time (and still is in many NATO and non NATO countries alike), some counties like the US and UK have replaced it or are replacing it, but it's still quite common on both the civilian and military market.

The short story of how this round came to be was that it was pitted against 3 other SCHV rounds from the US, Britain, and Germany respectively with the Belgian SS109 coming out on top, the US Army would later open their trials for a new SAW program that ultimately lead to the FN Minimi winning the competition with it's SS109 round (the other 2 used a newer style 55gr round that wasn't M193) and both were designated the M249 and M855 respectively.

M855 is known as "Green Tip" in the US to distinguish it from M193, and it was also selected as the future round of the M16A2, it was important to distinguish the 2 because unlike the M193, the M855 uses a longer, heaver bullet (62gr) with a steel tip instead of a solid lead core, weapons were initially going to have their barrels replaced with those using a 1:9 twist rate as opposed to the slower 1:16, 1:14 and 1:12 twist rates older weapons had, this was needed to properly stabilize the new projectile, however, a small problem arose when it was discovered the tracer round, M856 was 64gr and even longer (painted with an orange tip instead of green), this was remedied with a 1:7 twist rate barrel that's milspec to this day (If you ever hear someone ask in a gun store or somewhere if an AR-15 model has a milspec twist rate, this is what they're referring to, civilian ARs can have all kinds of different twist rates depending on what you intend to use them for.)

It's also worthy to note that many non US countries don't refer to it as Green tip because many foreign SS109 rounds are unpainted, as in many cases, this was their first round they used with a 5.56mm rifle system after dropping 7.62x51mm as standard issue frontline. Green tip also never meant it was an AP round contrary to popular belief, it was simply to tell it apart from M193 at a glance as stated above.

So, as above, while M193 will work in a modern M4A1, it won't be as accurate as slower twist rates work better with lighter, shorter projectiles while faster works with longer, heavier ones.

Possible rounds

M855/SS109

M856 Tracer

(Note: This is from an M16 barrel length, an M4A1 will get around 910m/s, also beware of someone named Gary Roberts as He's intentionally taken Fackler's tests and plagiarized/rigged them in his own "works" to make them look worse.)

wund6.gif

 

jzPo5BN.jpg

Left to right, M193, M196, M855, M856 pulled from their casings.

556_ammo2.gif

 

------------

Mk 262 Mark 1

Originally projectiles used in .223 Remington loads,These are 77 grain OTM (Open Tippped Match, more on that in a second) Sierra Match King rounds that were originally issued to the older Mk. 12 SPR after being reloaded into 5.56x45mm brass at much higher pressures. However soldiers started using them over M855 because aside from being more accurate due to being made to higher tolerances and the round selection, they have much better terminal effectiveness against soft targets, despite being heavier and having a lower MV, these rounds are generally more likely to result in deadly fragmentation when hitting a target at longer ranges than M855, and unlike M855 they don't suffer from the problem of fleet yaw which is a defect that prevented M855 from consistently fragmenting on targets at ranges below 50m.

Oddly, I was talking to a friends who's even more versed on the subject of warfare and military history than I am, and It was his observation that Mk. 262 Mod 1 was nearly adopted as standard issue, what killed it was the fact it has a lead core. (The US Military doesn't trend on "Green" ammunition to be nice and hippy friendly, It's because the price of cleaning up training ranges that forbid lead legitimately would cost more than simply developing a new round which you can tailor to more modern warfare needs anyway.)

I also mentioned that I'd talk about OTMs, the thing about OTMs is people wonder why they're not banned by the Hague due to them specifically targeting bullets that expand easily but, this was more targeted at "Dum-Dums" (Old factory that made Hollow points, name just stuck.) the difference is that 1. OTMs have a smaller meplat space on the tip and no pre stressed cuts on the jacket, making them not "true" hollow points per say which will have these as this makes them much easier to expand, and 2. It's mostly done for accuracy reasons.

Possible rounds.

Mk 262 Mod 1 (As far as I'm aware there is no tracer variant for the Mk 262, though to be fair making a long range round with a tracer is kind of a dumb idea and there's a reason you never see DMR sharpshooters or Snipers use them.)

 

Mk262-Mod1-3.jpg

 

01082016-001-03.jpg

-----------

Mk. 318 Mod 0/SOST

Up until recently, this was USMC standard issue ammunition, however they're now on the path to switching over to Army standard. that being said, Mk. 318 was designed for 2 very specific tasks, 1 was to increase the lethality and consistent effectiveness over M855, the other was to make a "barrier blind" round that, unlike M855 which can go off course when penetrating barriers that aren't necessarily "armor" but enough to deviate potential shots off targets (metal fencing, angled auto glass, car doors, cinder blocks, hard wood posts etc), that Mk. 318 can shoot straight through and still inflict a mortal wound through. Much like Mk. 262, Mk 318 uses an OTM style bullet, the difference being that it's 62gr like M855 and, unlike the mostly lead core of Mk 262, Mk .318 uses a shallower lead center with most of the base being copper, the idea being that if it hits a target, the jacket will usually violently fragment off in 2-4 petals and make a grievous wound, but if it penetrates a barrier, even if it sheds part of the outer jacket, the copper base will still usually go through a barrier and hit the target as opposed to deviating off course like M855 would.

This would also be easy to optimize ingame as it's powder blend was specifically made for the barrel lengths of the SCAR MK-16 STD and M4A1.

Mk318Mod0_4.jpg

 

intvw04.jpg Mod 1 with Nickel plated bullet.

S7300145.jpge18d6d5bb106ac80830b6bfdf5b57a30.jpg

Note that the expansion/fragmentation of Mk.318 begins much sooner and remains more consistent throughout.

Proposed round.

Mk. 318 Mod 0 SOST

Mk. 318 Mod 1 SOST (Mod 1 differs mainly in the tougher nickel plated coating of the bullet jacket.)

-----------

Mk. 255 Mod 1 RRLP.

While these started out as training rounds like the lighter Mk 311, these are 62gr frangible rounds that are specifically designed to break up and not deflect after hitting something hard like when operating on board a ship or tight urban setting, but are devastating against things like lightly protected flesh (like simple clothing) and are JAG approved for special purposes, these are ballistically matched to M855 and can be identified by their white or light blue tip.

Proposed round

Mk 255 Mark 1

4ff9b19b6492f35a995363edd5abdc64.png

ff0d89fb5d26ccfd3f43ee9af3263d34.png

From the prior Mod 0, but still a great test result of what it can do.

d40ad96940975a4d467c2701bae5f787.png

-------

M855A1 EPR

The US Army and soon to be rest of US military's new standard, this round is a massive improvement over M855 and arguably the best general purpose 5.56mm (or .223 if you want to count that) round ever made, in addition to having the barrier blind abilities mentioned earlier, greatly increased lethality with the fleet yaw problem solved, and improved velocity (it does run hotter, but not by the massive margins people claim), it also has very good armor penetration, being able to penetrate a Level III+ steel plate and It's Kevlar carrier vest out to 300m+ (Russian equivalent Level 5 armor plate and kevlar vest) aswell as being effective against things such as thin skinned or lightly armored/improvised armored vehicles, the round uses a steel tip like It's predecessor, but the steel tip is much harder steel and much longer/heavier than the steel insert in M855, it's wrapped in a copper jacket with a separate copper plus behind it, and doesn't actually use any lead in the bullet construction yet is still very lethal.

This round does run harder on guns and requires the feed ramps and magazines to be correctly angled (a lesson the marines with their H&K M27s found out the hard way), but once that's done, It works fine, mainly since an M4A1 feed ramp style with PMAGs is actually the optimal setup. It has the same weight as the old M855 at 62gr, but considering the copper base is lighter than the old lead one, the projectile is slightly longer. The tracer is oddly light at only 56gr, and has a crimson red tip.

 

Proposed rounds

M855A1 EPR

M856A1 Tracer

M855A1-Enhanced-Performance-Round.jpg?b6

6f010957b1834e644e651650d83baad6.png

After angled auto glass penetration.

m855a1.gel-test.after-windshield-penetra

 

Standard 4 layers of denim.

 

6f0dab6b961bfdc65c11872b8f7df944.png

-------

 

M995 "Black Tip"

 

For most of you who don't know, a cartridge that has the bullet painted with a black tip almost always signifies that this is a dedicated armor piercing round. M995 is no exception, being a 52 grain bullet that closely resembles a very small APCR style round of WW2 vintage, it uses a tungsten alloy penetrator wrapped in a small aluminum "cup" that keeps it snug inside the jacket, this round, in addition to being able to penetrate a classified amount of hardened steel (testing indicates that it and it's bigger brother were against a Russian BDRM-2 at "extended range"), It's claimed to be able to penetrate a Level IV (Russian equivalent 6/6a) ceramic/composite armor plate from around 100m, though It's effects on flesh leave a bit to be desired as such a design tends to icepick though with relatively little damage against unarmored targets.

 

Proposed round

 

M995 "Black Tip"

 

556ap.jpg

 

993.jpg

 

993plate.jpg

 

995plate.jpg

------

Well, that's all for now, my writing is getting sloppy and I'm tired, I might do more variants and some foreign loadings if anyone actually cares but, mostly want to try and get the devs thoughts on some of these, not that I'm not at all trying to be hostile to the devs, just that I like content so sorry if I came off that way.

Anyway, some final notes for now.

-There's no such thing as magic bullets, but there are better bullets for certain situations.

-While even the most accurate gel tests aren't a 100% indicator of how a round will perform in reality, it does give a great medium to compare a set of rounds to each other when done right, plus the alternative is to post the "actual" FBI/Army method of using a recently dead or very soon to be dead after getting knocked out pig or sheep (the closest physiological matches to humans) or actual combat pictures for reference, I can't do this for obvious reasons of it being in poor taste.

- I may have made some errors but, this took a while and I'm rather tired, I'll correct anything wrong if there's any real blips on the radar.

 

 

 

 

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UlyssesVengeanc
27 minutes ago, KhandE said:

M855A1 EPR

The US Army and soon to be rest of US military's new standard, this round is a massive improvement over M855 and arguably the best general purpose 5.56mm (or .223 if you want to count that) round ever made, in addition to having the barrier blind abilities mentioned earlier, greatly increased lethality with the fleet yaw problem solved, and improved velocity (it does run hotter, but not by the massive margins people claim), it also has very good armor penetration, being able to penetrate a Level III+ steel plate and It's Kevlar carrier vest out to 300m+ (Russian equivalent Level 5 armor plate and kevlar vest) aswell as being effective against things such as thin skinned or lightly armored/improvised armored vehicles, the round uses a steel tip like It's predecessor, but the steel tip is much harder steel and much longer/heavier than the steel insert in M855, it's wrapped in a copper jacket with a separate copper plus behind it, and doesn't actually use any lead in the bullet construction yet is still very lethal.

This round does run harder on guns and requires the feed ramps and magazines to be correctly angled (a lesson the marines with their H&K M27s found out the hard way), but once that's done, It works fine, mainly since an M4A1 feed ramp style with PMAGs is actually the optimal setup. It has the same weight as the old M855 at 62gr, but considering the copper base is lighter than the old lead one, the projectile is slightly longer. The tracer is oddly light at only 56gr, and has a crimson red tip.

 

Proposed rounds

M855A1 EPR

M856A1 Tracer

^ +1 to the whole article you wrote, especially for its depth and particularly this bullet

The EPR delivers with the accuracy of a an AR and punch of an 7.62mm. This round pretty much solves the debate of 5.56mm vs 7.62mm and I would absolutely LOVE to see it in-game.

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Vin_

is it possible to mount PEQ15/LS321/Xs400 from the right side on short CQ (260mm barrel) M4 ?

Im trying,but i can place it only on top, which look ugly.

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Rademp

Where Trijicon ACOG, the family of these sights has its place on the weapon

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JonFocus

I can not wait to get my M4 on here.

 

Jon

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TheWalke

Hey Guys just an question....

Did you know where to find an m4 ??? i searched every location from shoreline to woods and i dont find any of these i have a couple of magazine for it so i need some empty space in my stash where should i search ?

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cypherflow
On 8/23/2017 at 7:20 AM, TheWalke said:

Hey Guys just an question....

Did you know where to find an m4 ??? i searched every location from shoreline to woods and i dont find any of these i have a couple of magazine for it so i need some empty space in my stash where should i search ?

I'd like to know this too!
One of my fav real life weapons. 

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detoxuk
On 23/08/2017 at 3:20 PM, TheWalke said:

Hey Guys just an question....

Did you know where to find an m4 ??? i searched every location from shoreline to woods and i dont find any of these i have a couple of magazine for it so i need some empty space in my stash where should i search ?

Finding them is the hardest means of getting an M4. Level Peacekeeper up to level 4 and you can buy them for $800 or trade 4 semi auto shotgun receivers for one. M4's can spawn in the bathroom / locker rooms on factory, in a dorm room 218 i think and in a warehouse on customs. They are just really rare, i've personally never found one but have found 2 AS VALs which are considerably rarer.

Best bet is to level traders and trade for them or buy them.

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amiga112

WAHOUUU ! un jour ... je l'aurai ! :) 

WAHOUUU ! One day I will have it :) 

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Davey5160

One day, they may add an HK416. 

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Psykotik556
On 1/18/2016 at 4:30 PM, Ayaku said:

M16 are so bad, I don't understand why people like them, I think they're ugly.
Compared to the M4A1 which looks gorgeous in my opinion :P 

Longer range. From my experience with them they're pretty good so long as they're new or relatively new. Most Armalite/Knights Armament/Colt rifles and carbines function well for a good amount of time but once that threshold is crossed then they only kinda shoot bullets. I like the KAC versions of the M4 recievers best with Magpul furniture. super comfy, including M16s. That and I'm 6'4 so I feel like the M16 fits me better than the M4 considering the M4 feels like an smg in my hands...I'd love for a AR platform rifle to come to EFT but preferably around the German HK 417 style of rifles, those things are GREAT.

Edited by Psykotik556
Spelling Error

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Panwow

Looks really awesome , i like to buy it and die instant :D .

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dcm90
On 7/31/2017 at 5:34 AM, KhandE said:

The AR-10, SR-25 and AR-15 all throw the M14 in the dumpster accuracy wise, please don't comment on weapons if you've never actually used them or at least read about them, you would literally get laughed out of existence posting that you think the M14 is more mechanically accurate than an AR to any group of shooters who actually knows better.

that's really debatable. the M1  plataform has a very respectable history.  I'll take a ruger mini 14 any day over your tacticool ar 15 with laser beams.

and the article was poiting the m16a1 (with the crappy pencil barrel) was more accurate or better than the m14 which is obviously false.

ohh and i own an ar-15a2. im still waiting to see a modest real RIFLE 18-20 inch a2 AR type in the game and not all tacticool carbine fest.

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KhandE
Quote

that's really debatable. the M1  plataform has a very respectable history.  I'll take a ruger mini 14 any day over your tacticool ar 15 with laser beams.

No, It's literally all but completely factual that the AR platform is very, very accurate for a semi auto platform and the M14's accuracy was heavily overblown and needs to be heavily accurized to even come close to an AR-10 or AR-15, let alone an SR-25 which is flat out better in every was as far as a marksman platform goes.

As far as the taking a Mini-14 over my "tacticool ar-15 with laser beams" (which is incredibly ironic as, aside from not even being directly related to the M14 contrary to the name, the big selling point of the Mini-14 used to be people that wanted to be Mall Ninjas but couldn't actually afford an AR-15 so they'd buy a Mini 14 and just cover it in TAPCO crap, now that the price on entry level models has gone down, there's basically no reason at all for Mini-14 to exist.), my "tacticool" AR-15 is a competition grade LMT SLK8.

So, you'll take a rifle that's SIGNIFICANTLY less accurate (seriously, the Mini 14 has a well known reputation of not being able to hit the broadside of a barn from the inside.), less reliable, only takes proprietary magazines, and is more pronee to parts breakages because..... It's wood and steel? (unless you get the Tactical variant, but clearly Ruger would never market to the "Tacticool" crowd) ......Ok.

 

Quote

and the article was poiting the m16a1 (with the crappy pencil barrel) was more accurate or better than the m14 which is obviously false.

 

Yeah, once again, news flash, that's true, the AR-15 is FLAT OUT a more mechanically accurate design, even without an HBAR, Cold hammer forged barrel, Competition barrel etc etc etc, the M14's accuracy is incredibly overblown and if you think this is false, sorry to tell you but your going against basically knowledge of firearms that's considered rudimentary at this point.

 

Quote

ohh and i own an ar-15a2. im still waiting to see a modest real RIFLE 18-20 inch a2 AR type in the game and not all tacticool carbine fest.

 

I've owned more rifles than I can count off the top off my head, including 20" barreled M16 profile AR-15s, and?

I guess all those civilian shooters, LEOs, and Soldiers who like a shorter barreled gun with a telescoping stock that can be stored easier, actually be configured to a shooter's height and arm length, including for different lengths compared to when they are or aren't wearing body armor, is less of a burden while riding in and dismounting from somewhere like an APC or IFV, and that can clear room much easier are all just tacticool mall ninjas who just don't know what's It's like to use a "REAL" rifle, which you clearly hold the textbook definition on.

 

Or maybe they know something you don't about actual modern day sport shooting and combat, but I'm sure they'd love to hear your judgement on based solely on your taste and misguided perceptions. (Also, can you explain to me why you'd take a Mini 14 in the first place? They only have a 16" barrel standard and a rather bad one at that, clearly not a real rifle by your 18-20" mark.)

 

Edited by KhandE

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txgunner87
1 hour ago, dcm90 said:

that's really debatable. the M1  plataform has a very respectable history.  I'll take a ruger mini 14 any day over your tacticool ar 15 with laser beams.

and the article was poiting the m16a1 (with the crappy pencil barrel) was more accurate or better than the m14 which is obviously false.

ohh and i own an ar-15a2. im still waiting to see a modest real RIFLE 18-20 inch a2 AR type in the game and not all tacticool carbine fest.

Holy **** my brain hurts from reading everything you've posted ITT9_9

The Ruger is a fine rifle but anyone who claims it is in any way superior to an AR is a complete moron who doesn't know jack about Mini 14s or ARs, same goes for claiming the M14 is in any way superior to a large frame AR (ie AR-10).....and yes, the M16A1 is more accurate than the M14

Side note: at the ranges you get in EFT, the ballistic advantage gained from an 18-20 inch barrel would be completely irrelevant....assuming the devs stick to realistic ballistics. 

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ataros

Are there any test data of ingame FMJ vs. Ball 5.56 ammo? Some good players streaming the game tend to use FMJ but others Ball one. As a new player I am confused.

Can we trust this page? https://escapefromtarkov.gamepedia.com/Ammunition Is it kept up to date with new patch releases?

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Sininesmurf

M4 is a beast . favored weapon on game :D

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RainmakerM4

My current M4: 2017-09-2421-33_0.png

I would only wish we can move our scope up and down the picatinny rail. All scopes including the holographic sights are placed way too close to the charging handle.

Will it be possible to choose how far or close we attach our scopes? Same goes for peq-15s, and vertical foregrips. We need to be able to choose where we will place them within a realistic and practical manner ofcourse.

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Forien
4 minutes ago, RainmakerM4 said:

I would only wish we can move our scope up and down the picatinny rail. All scopes including the holographic sights are placed way too close to the charging handle.

Will it be possible to choose how far or close we attach our scopes? Same goes for peq-15s, and vertical foregrips. We need to be able to choose where we will place them within a realistic and practical manner ofcourse.

I wish we could just attach any mods anywhere, where they can be realistically added. For example KAC RIS II has 4 rails, that are all the same, but you can't put foregrip on side or laser underneath. 

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RainmakerM4
17 minutes ago, Forien said:

I wish we could just attach any mods anywhere, where they can be realistically added. For example KAC RIS II has 4 rails, that are all the same, but you can't put foregrip on side or laser underneath. 

I think a foregrip on the side is very silly. But an option to move it more forward or backwards would be very good. Same for PEQ boxes.

But like I said all within realistic use. Not a bloody foregrip on the side or some nonsense like that.

Edited by RainmakerM4
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Forien
10 minutes ago, RainmakerM4 said:

I think a foregrip on the side is very silly. 

But like I said all withing realistic use. Not a bloody foregrip on the side or some nonsense like that.

If you say they are not realistic, then why does that even exists?

t-fs-ar15-front.jpg

There are situations, where vertical grip isn't useful and side grip would be. For example, in prone position or 45 degree shooting. 

Anyway, I just want that so if there is a Picatinny rail somewhere, players should be able to mount there any Picatinny rail compatible mod, as long as rail is long enough for that mod. Of course sights underneath barrel would be completely useless (not even possible to aim through), but if someone wants to be stupid, then why don't let him? ;) It's supposed to be hardcore and realistic, so let's make it so. 

Edited by Forien

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RainmakerM4
Just now, Forien said:

If you say they are nor realistic, then why does that even exists?

t-fs-ar15-front.jpg

There are situations, where vertical grip isn't useful and side grip would be. For example, in prone position. 

Thats a very nice airsoft gun LOL

Literally nobody uses this, its useless. And in prone position it does not make any sense to use a so called "side" grip.

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eimx

Just got to lvl3 with Peacekeeper, what's the difference between the regular 30rnd STANAG mags and the 30rnd PMAG?

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Forien
Just now, eimx said:

Just got to lvl3 with Peacekeeper, what's the difference between the regular 30rnd STANAG mags and the 30rnd PMAG?

Ergonomics. PMAG is much better to handle (supposedly faster reloads, better control of a weapon). 

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