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DSA SA58 and HK MP7

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Shootemup899
2 hours ago, Zerksys said:

HK MP7 oh yeah!!! I always prefered it over the FN P90, even if the latter has more magazine capacity. It has a lot of features that I like, adn it handles a bit better.

I really hope that we will be able to collapse the stock so it's even more compact than it already is. 

 

The Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal P90 with the 5.7x28mm round would also be great at shredding through armor.

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KhandE
40 minutes ago, Shootemup899 said:

The Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal P90 with the 5.7x28mm round would also be great at shredding through armor.

It does just fine up to IIIA body armor and both softer and "hard coated" helmets with SS198LF ball or SS190 black tip AP loads (even better if you get the loadings from Elite Ammunition or Vanguard Outfitters who load their rounds including pulled SS190 bullets much hotter than other commercial brands), the later of which will pass the CRISAT test at 200m.

As for the handling of the 2, I actually don't mind the Ergonomics of the P90 at all like quite a few usually do, but It's kind of a different beast than the MP7 which, while it did lose out in NATO tests to the P90 (But both lost standardization anyway due to the GHerman government protesting on behalf of H&K), in sheer penetration and other factors, the MP7 just feels like more of a machine pistol in size and handling so it kind of does win out there whereas the P90 is kind of a pig despite being a rather small sized SMG/PDW. (It's almost the weight of an unloaded M4A1)

The only thing that takes getting used to is the reloading in my opinion, the top fed magazines can feel very odd at first to someone who's never used them.

Edited by KhandE

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DaBombgamer

I am very ready for this!

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FSE

I'm just glad we have a full auto 7.62 NATO rifle now.

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d0gday

Can't wait to test that SA58 out in factory. Looks perfect for CQB.

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JWhiskey

anyone feeling the Capitao vibes?

also I feel that the mp7 is a wonderful addition!

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Zerksys
On 9/2/2018 at 10:30 PM, d0gday said:

Can't wait to test that SA58 out in factory. Looks perfect for CQB.

And I hope that it also has a longer barrel available, for more open maps like Woods. 

On 9/2/2018 at 5:09 PM, KhandE said:

It does just fine up to IIIA body armor and both softer and "hard coated" helmets with SS198LF ball or SS190 black tip AP loads (even better if you get the loadings from Elite Ammunition or Vanguard Outfitters who load their rounds including pulled SS190 bullets much hotter than other commercial brands), the later of which will pass the CRISAT test at 200m.

As for the handling of the 2, I actually don't mind the Ergonomics of the P90 at all like quite a few usually do, but It's kind of a different beast than the MP7 which, while it did lose out in NATO tests to the P90 (But both lost standardization anyway due to the GHerman government protesting on behalf of H&K), in sheer penetration and other factors, the MP7 just feels like more of a machine pistol in size and handling so it kind of does win out there whereas the P90 is kind of a pig despite being a rather small sized SMG/PDW. (It's almost the weight of an unloaded M4A1)

The only thing that takes getting used to is the reloading in my opinion, the top fed magazines can feel very odd at first to someone who's never used them.

The MP7's cartridge, 4.6x30mm does have better penetration than tha 5.7x28mm, but deals a little bit less damage as a tradeoff.

I read somewhere that 5.7x28mm rounds need a special coating on the case in order to cicle properly on the P90, due to it being a straight blowback weapon (ergo, unlocked breech), whereas the MP7 doesn't have this quirk since it has a locked breech bolt (more or less a scaled down G36 mechanism), which it also makes it more reliable when using a suppressor. 

These details don't really matter ingame. On a practical sense, the top rail on an MP7 is a bit long, thus can accept more attachments.

I wouldn't mind having a P90 aswell. I kinda like its original ring sight from the first generation variants for aesthetic reasons. 

 

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KhandE
8 hours ago, Zerksys said:

And I hope that it also has a longer barrel available, for more open maps like Woods. 

The MP7's cartridge, 4.6x30mm does have better penetration than tha 5.7x28mm, but deals a little bit less damage as a tradeoff.

I read somewhere that 5.7x28mm rounds need a special coating on the case in order to cicle properly on the P90, due to it being a straight blowback weapon (ergo, unlocked breech), whereas the MP7 doesn't have this quirk since it has a locked breech bolt (more or less a scaled down G36 mechanism), which it also makes it more reliable when using a suppressor. 

These details don't really matter ingame. On a practical sense, the top rail on an MP7 is a bit long, thus can accept more attachments.

I wouldn't mind having a P90 aswell. I kinda like its original ring sight from the first generation variants for aesthetic reasons. 

 

1. 5.7mm actually will outpenetrate CRISAT targets, It's about the same at close range but at longer ranges of the effective ranges of the weapons the 5.7mm wins out. To get the best effect on tissue you need to run ballistic tips but, for obvious reasons penetration will suffer when using such loadings.

2. The special coating is Teflon, the Teflon coating is actually used for 2 reasons, which is 1. It will stick during the rotating phase of feeding another round through the magazine without it *check how a P90 magazine works sometimes, it rotates 90 degrees at the feed port to load another round) and 2. the cartridges have a chance to stick compared to other "Pistol" rounds due to the fact they run at a relatively high PSI (9mm Luger as a benchmark runs at about 35,000 PSI with non NATO or +P loadings, 5.7x28mm can run over 50,000) in both the P90 and FiveSeven pistol after the barrels get too hot, this helps prevent that.

Also yeah, I like the "look" of the P90's retro optic but, unfortunately it sucks horribly. Keep in mind the P90 was originally a rush project that was a make or break to quickly save FNH from potential Bankruptcy when their last project, the BRG-15 heavy machine gun fell through on potential customers due to the end of the Cold War so alot of the features of the original gun are kind of unrefined or made in such ways that are either easy to manufacture or readily out there. (for example, on "readily out there, most people don't know the P90 is actually pretty heavily inspired internal wise by the Steyr AUG.)

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Soupy

dang this will be sweet, curious to see how the FAL fits into the game

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stanmanth2

Why is anyone bothering to send a Metric pattern FAL built on Steyr tooling to a conflict in Russia? The current availability of FALs in the black market are lightly used ex-Libyan stocks liberated from stockpiles after the fall of Qaddafi and variously trafficked to jihadis all over in support of the Arab Spring. The FAL is not a great optics platform although it is largely employed in the Designated Marksman's role for want of a better alternative (usually SVD or Romanian PSL).  New build SA58s are nearly USD 2K and you have all that ITAR bullshit to deal with. 

This is a strange curiosity to me and far down the list of more relevant weapons. 

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ShinobiSpec
6 hours ago, stanmanth2 said:

Why is anyone bothering to send a Metric pattern FAL built on Steyr tooling to a conflict in Russia? The current availability of FALs in the black market are lightly used ex-Libyan stocks liberated from stockpiles after the fall of Qaddafi and variously trafficked to jihadis all over in support of the Arab Spring. The FAL is not a great optics platform although it is largely employed in the Designated Marksman's role for want of a better alternative (usually SVD or Romanian PSL).  New build SA58s are nearly USD 2K and you have all that ITAR bullshit to deal with. 

This is a strange curiosity to me and far down the list of more relevant weapons. 

This.

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PIG-Mathieu
6 hours ago, stanmanth2 said:

This is a strange curiosity to me and far down the list of more relevant weapons. 

A rifle using .308 is needed in a game that gives that much details to weapons. Either a FAL (or variant) or a SCAR.. but guess what, both are confirmed and coming... But by "more relevant weapon" you meant something like the SVD, a 1911, a double barrel shotgun, a glock, a mosin or maybe even HK416 or variants ?

Well it' s all coming as well lol

Spoiler

image.png.339bb7a8ba928aadc8311054c2fe5850.pngimage.thumb.png.2e50a91bc761f20ba8aefd89056f5ad2.pngimage.thumb.png.2a8062986f108476d464b6a295684850.pngimage.thumb.png.864328f8ce6c6fb6e29af85c721b1cff.pngimage.png.e1ec6d1fc8d510ca425237201b904015.png

 

Edited by PIG-Mathieu

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KhandE
8 hours ago, stanmanth2 said:

Why is anyone bothering to send a Metric pattern FAL built on Steyr tooling to a conflict in Russia? The current availability of FALs in the black market are lightly used ex-Libyan stocks liberated from stockpiles after the fall of Qaddafi and variously trafficked to jihadis all over in support of the Arab Spring. The FAL is not a great optics platform although it is largely employed in the Designated Marksman's role for want of a better alternative (usually SVD or Romanian PSL).  New build SA58s are nearly USD 2K and you have all that ITAR bullshit to deal with. 

This is a strange curiosity to me and far down the list of more relevant weapons. 

DS Arms, aside from Century arms (who really suck at pretty much everything) and I think IMBEL in Brazil are the only companies that still manufacture new FALs and parts that will fit old ones. why would a PMC in 2028 take Gaddafi era rifles over newly built rifles that are far more upgradeable over their 50's parent rifles?

Don't get me wrong, I really do like a lot of retro guns like the FAL and the M16A1, but the FAL was never exactly known to be very customizeable in the field which is a big feature in this game, and DS Arms guns work just fine while having quite a few modernized variants of the old right hand.

(Also, they don't use Steyr tooling anymore, all of their guns and replacement parts are now built on brand new machinery unlike most companies who just reassemble parts kits poorly and claim they make them.)

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Zerksys
On 11/2/2018 at 7:23 PM, KhandE said:

1. 5.7mm actually will outpenetrate CRISAT targets, It's about the same at close range but at longer ranges of the effective ranges of the weapons the 5.7mm wins out. To get the best effect on tissue you need to run ballistic tips but, for obvious reasons penetration will suffer when using such loadings.

2. The special coating is Teflon, the Teflon coating is actually used for 2 reasons, which is 1. It will stick during the rotating phase of feeding another round through the magazine without it *check how a P90 magazine works sometimes, it rotates 90 degrees at the feed port to load another round) and 2. the cartridges have a chance to stick compared to other "Pistol" rounds due to the fact they run at a relatively high PSI (9mm Luger as a benchmark runs at about 35,000 PSI with non NATO or +P loadings, 5.7x28mm can run over 50,000) in both the P90 and FiveSeven pistol after the barrels get too hot, this helps prevent that.

Also yeah, I like the "look" of the P90's retro optic but, unfortunately it sucks horribly. Keep in mind the P90 was originally a rush project that was a make or break to quickly save FNH from potential Bankruptcy when their last project, the BRG-15 heavy machine gun fell through on potential customers due to the end of the Cold War so alot of the features of the original gun are kind of unrefined or made in such ways that are either easy to manufacture or readily out there. (for example, on "readily out there, most people don't know the P90 is actually pretty heavily inspired internal wise by the Steyr AUG.)

I know that it kinda sucks, it was crappy even by 90's standards (G.I.'s were already using Aimpoints on their M4 carbines IIRC). I just like the low profile and aesthetics of it (I'm not very fond of the oversized open sights they put on P90s on other videogames). I would be cool, nonetheless, to see the 50 round translucent magazine in action. Few games pull it off right, Metal Gear Solid 4 comes into mind, and it's also happens to feature the original sight.

If I'm not wrong, the OEM sight has a tritium illuminator, whereas there are sights for the civvie PS90 that have fiber optic illumination. The MP7 at least has a more traditional sight arrangement, with ironsights with high profile (rifle-like rear peep and front post) and low profile (pistol-like with 3 dots) modes, aside from having a picatinny rail from the get go. The germans usually attacha a Zeiss Z-Point reflex sight. It's a more flexible gun by all practical purposes.

 

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AntiCalamity

Too bad the MP7 will be useless after a week or so when people get Fort

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QuackersGaming

I am very excited for DSA SA58 have a feeling it is going to be fun to use :unice:

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