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munchiesnOOb

Hatchlings really need to be nerfed

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I'm well aware that a makarov even is often enough to take out a naked hatchling. But that doesn't mean its fun to run around and see one or two guys with actual gear, and a horde of people with nothing but a hatchet, with nothing to lose. Absolutely no enjoyment is to be gained from slowly clearing a building, just to be rushed by some dork with a pointy stick and lose all of your gear.

We already have the scav system in case a player loses absolutely everything, they always have the ability to get more free loot by just running to the exit every 30 minutes.

I personally think it should not be allowed to enter a raid with just a hatchet. Not sure how that would be enforced; maybe a point value attributed to every piece of gear, and you need to have a certain number of points in your loadout, not counting your safe case, in order to join a raid. Maybe you would need to at least have a firearm of some kind, and be unable to enter without one. I understand its still early in development, but at least by final release something needs to be done about this. Especially when you consider that you don't lose melee weapons or really have ANY penalty for dying as a hatchling.

 

And yes, before anyone asks, I am really salty right now about losing to a pair of lucky hatchlings. But that doesn't make my argument any less valid.

Thoughts?

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If a hatchling killed you thats all on you, playing as a hatchet runner is fine, I love joining a raid killing a scav and working my way on to players, it provides a challenge and an objective.

If you cant kill hatchlings, uninstall.

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Their existence is based on a fearless russian tribe, that runs over the city with machetes, almost naked, and intimidates even firearmed soldiers.xD

#funny 

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1 hour ago, munchiesnOOb said:

I'm well aware that a makarov even is often enough to take out a naked hatchling. But that doesn't mean its fun to run around and see one or two guys with actual gear, and a horde of people with nothing but a hatchet, with nothing to lose. Absolutely no enjoyment is to be gained from slowly clearing a building, just to be rushed by some dork with a pointy stick and lose all of your gear.

We already have the scav system in case a player loses absolutely everything, they always have the ability to get more free loot by just running to the exit every 30 minutes.

I personally think it should not be allowed to enter a raid with just a hatchet. Not sure how that would be enforced; maybe a point value attributed to every piece of gear, and you need to have a certain number of points in your loadout, not counting your safe case, in order to join a raid. Maybe you would need to at least have a firearm of some kind, and be unable to enter without one. I understand its still early in development, but at least by final release something needs to be done about this. Especially when you consider that you don't lose melee weapons or really have ANY penalty for dying as a hatchling.

 

And yes, before anyone asks, I am really salty right now about losing to a pair of lucky hatchlings. But that doesn't make my argument any less valid.

Thoughts?

If the hatchling jumped you imagine how fucked you'd be if that hatchling had an actual firearm. 

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1 hour ago, mattywatty2012 said:

If a hatchling killed you thats all on you, playing as a hatchet runner is fine, I love joining a raid killing a scav and working my way on to players, it provides a challenge and an objective.

If you cant kill hatchlings, uninstall.

Ah, good ol' Git Gud mentality. Because lets not criticize the game for its flaws, lets just tell other players they're bad and ignore the problems. :)

See, hatchlings would not be an issue at all if the servers weren't built out of cardboard. But when you can spray a mag into a hatchling and they omae wa mou you, there's not much you can do. And you really enjoy just seeing people running around with hatchets and no gear? Why are you not playing rust? Please go elsewhere if that's the game you enjoy; not because I don't want you here, but there are games literally based around that type of gameplay.

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2 minutes ago, MadMacks said:

If the hatchling jumped you imagine how fucked you'd be if that hatchling had an actual firearm. 

So you're okay with a game focused around tactical gameplay having most of the players just running around and hatcheting things? You're choosing to insult me instead of addressing the topic. 

Just now, ShowMeDeWai said:

Was that you on customs about an hour ago?  Was in the glass factory ran out to the oil tanks and I got you?

Nope, this was several hours ago in the stairwell by extraction, second floor, factory.

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Just now, munchiesnOOb said:

Ah, good ol' Git Gud mentality. Because lets not criticize the game for its flaws, lets just tell other players they're bad and ignore the problems. :)

See, hatchlings would not be an issue at all if the servers weren't built out of cardboard. But when you can spray a mag into a hatchling and they omae wa mou you, there's not much you can do. And you really enjoy just seeing people running around with hatchets and no gear? Why are you not playing rust? Please go elsewhere if that's the game you enjoy; not because I don't want you here, but there are games literally based around that type of gameplay.

I have never died to a hatchling as a geared player in all of my time in Tarkov. Hatchlings will be made less enticing when they introduce your survival rating having an impact with trader tasks. Hatchling however, are not really a threat. If you know the spawns on factory, you can just spawn kill a hatchling. Other maps are so open if you can't kill the running hatchling, that is on you. 

1 minute ago, munchiesnOOb said:

So you're okay with a game focused around tactical gameplay having most of the players just running around and hatcheting things? You're choosing to insult me instead of addressing the topic. 

 

I'm okay with my game letting people do what they want. It's not unrealistic when the unarmored person gets blown away. 

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1 minute ago, MadMacks said:

I have never died to a hatchling as a geared player in all of my time in Tarkov. Hatchlings will be made less enticing when they introduce your survival rating having an impact with trader tasks. Hatchling however, are not really a threat. If you know the spawns on factory, you can just spawn kill a hatchling. Other maps are so open if you can't kill the running hatchling, that is on you. 

I've actually been out of the loop for quite a while, so that's actually good to hear that they're implementing that. That's probably a better solution than the two I came up with it, albeit maybe a bit harsh if they put it in too strongly, and too ineffective if they wuss out with it... hmm.

I should clarify of course that I'm clearly not a very skilled player, I get very little time to play and only recently got back into it because of PC issues. Hopefully as servers become less infuriatingly poor I'll git gud.

Edited by munchiesnOOb
added a bit

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Just now, MadMacks said:

I have never died to a hatchling as a geared player in all of my time in Tarkov. Hatchlings will be made less enticing when they introduce your survival rating having an impact with trader tasks. Hatchling however, are not really a threat. If you know the spawns on factory, you can just spawn kill a hatchling. Other maps are so open if you can't kill the running hatchling, that is on you. 

Traders not liking hatchlings?  lol who cares?  Just like the "Karma" system.  Unless it stops people from being able to log in and play there is NOTHING any Karma system can do to stop people who want to kill everyone, from killing everyone.

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1 minute ago, ShowMeDeWai said:

Traders not liking hatchlings?  lol who cares?  Just like the "Karma" system.  Unless it stops people from being able to log in and play there is NOTHING any Karma system can do to stop people who want to kill everyone, from killing everyone.

Good counterpoint. What do you think about my inventory point system suggestion, then? Perhaps that would work. IF you really DO want to run in and hatchet, you're going to have to risk some loot in the process to make it fair for others.

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1 minute ago, munchiesnOOb said:

Good counterpoint. What do you think about my inventory point system suggestion, then? Perhaps that would work. IF you really DO want to run in and hatchet, you're going to have to risk some loot in the process to make it fair for others.

That wont work either.  I would insure everything, run to the nearest bush and dump it/push it through a fence/through the world etc etc.

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2 minutes ago, ShowMeDeWai said:

Traders not liking hatchlings?  lol who cares?  Just like the "Karma" system.  Unless it stops people from being able to log in and play there is NOTHING any Karma system can do to stop people who want to kill everyone, from killing everyone.

If people who want to do trader tasks will care, and make a portion of players less likely to spam tons of hatchet games thus ducking their overall survival rate by a boat load. I'm cool with hatchling and don't care if they're in the game, however it will be punished in a form by traders. 

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Just now, ShowMeDeWai said:

That wont work either.  I would insure everything, run to the nearest bush and dump it/push it through a fence/through the world etc etc.

Yeah, that is right. Although, it would still make it a lot slower to do, you know? But yeah, that's a good point. Damn.

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4 minutes ago, ShowMeDeWai said:

That wont work either.  I would insure everything, run to the nearest bush and dump it/push it through a fence/through the world etc etc.

I've heard the idea I think from Deadly's stream of making it so where if your survival rating is low enough, traders will significantly jack up the prices of insurance on your gear. Less likelihood of survival = more money you have to pay for insurance. 

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3 minutes ago, MadMacks said:

If people who want to do trader tasks will care, and make a portion of players less likely to spam tons of hatchet games thus ducking their overall survival rate by a boat load. I'm cool with hatchling and don't care if they're in the game, however it will be punished in a form by traders. 

My survival rate is 36%.  At what percentage point would "you" say is where you start punishing players?  I have 217 Hatchet kills.  I probably survive more of my hatchet runs than I do geared runs.  But that is because I am the Yolo guy in my group.  "What fellas?  You said three guys ran into the West Wing.  Here, hold my beer."  "Yep two on the right, one to the left.  Don't worry about tossing my crap."

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Just now, ShowMeDeWai said:

My survival rate is 36%.  At what percentage point would "you" say is where you start punishing players?  I have 217 Hatchet kills.  I probably survive more of my hatchet runs than I do geared runs.  But that is because I am the Yolo guy in my group.  "What fellas?  You said three guys ran into the West Wing.  Here, hold my beer."  "Yep two on the right, one to the left.  Don't worry about tossing my crap."

I heard it was going to be pretty low, probably around the teens or single digits, maybe the low twenties.

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1 minute ago, MadMacks said:

I've heard the idea I think from Deadly's stream of making it so where if your survival rating is low enough, traders will significantly jack up the prices of insurance on your gear. Less likelihood of survival = more money you have to pay for insurance. 

Sitting on 2.9 Mil Rubles, 31K Euro, 130K USD.  Oh noes, my insurance is going to cost me 50k R instead of 10K R.  LOL

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i think the problem is not with hatchlings being overpowered, but with the crappy netcode making someone running at you basically impossible to kill. if someone manages to sneak up on me without being noticed and plant an axe in my head he totally deserves all my gear. but if i pump a full AK magazine into someone and hits don't register then it gets really frustrating...

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Just now, MadMacks said:

I heard it was going to be pretty low, probably around the teens or single digits, maybe the low twenties.

So, even with my Yolo runs and a ton of Hatchet runs I am still almost double what they are talking about.  So, that won't work.  

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Just now, ShowMeDeWai said:

Sitting on 2.9 Mil Rubles, 31K Euro, 130K USD.  Oh noes, my insurance is going to cost me 50k R instead of 10K R.  LOL

It's almost like someone in the end game is going to have less money issues than someone in the early to mid, especially less experienced players, who are typically hatchlings. 

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2 minutes ago, echomrg said:

i think the problem is not with hatchlings being overpowered, but with the crappy netcode making someone running at you basically impossible to kill. if someone manages to sneak up on me without being noticed and plant an axe in my head he totally deserves all my gear. but if i pump a full AK magazine into someone and hits don't register then it gets really frustrating...

This is what I'm really talking about. In a firefight, sure netcode hurts, but ultimately its still hard to shoot a head poking out of a window or from behind a doorway, so its more fair. If someone just rushes you and one shots you, the netcode means you're spraying at nothing because they've already omae wa mou'd you.

 

2 minutes ago, MadMacks said:

It's almost like someone in the end game is going to have less money issues than someone in the early to mid, especially less experienced players, who are typically hatchlings. 

See, you're actually GOOD at doing it, though. I can respect that a lot. Its the people who just do it because they don't want to lose gear and want no risk that ruin it for me. Like, I don't play DayZ and whine like a child when I get sniped in Berezino. I play the game and expect it to go a certain way. As it stand now, there's literally just free loot with zero risk in the game right now. Sure, you're significantly less deadly at range than others, but what's it matter? If you drop dead all you wasted was maybe 5 minutes, assuming you didn't throw anything in your safe case to sell for a few rubles.

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7 minutes ago, munchiesnOOb said:

 

See, you're actually GOOD at doing it, though. I can respect that a lot. Its the people who just do it because they don't want to lose gear and want no risk that ruin it for me. Like, I don't play DayZ and whine like a child when I get sniped in Berezino. I play the game and expect it to go a certain way. As it stand now, there's literally just free loot with zero risk in the game right now. Sure, you're significantly less deadly at range than others, but what's it matter? If you drop dead all you wasted was maybe 5 minutes, assuming you didn't throw anything in your safe case to sell for a few rubles.

To be also really honest, if the issue is someone isn't dying as a hatchling because of desync, you'd still be super fucked if they weren't dying and had weapons. They are working on the netcode and will continue making it better. Usually when the netcode is working fine, hatchlings arn't a problem as long as you're aware of your surroundings. 

Edited by MadMacks

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3 minutes ago, MadMacks said:

To be also really honest, if the issue is someone isn't dying as a hatchling because of desync, you'd still be super fucked if they weren't dying and had weapons. They are working on the netcode and will continue making it better. Usually when the netcode is working fine, hatchlings arn't a problem as long as you're aware of your surroundings. 

I think I mentioned that in my other reply. Netcode is not as much of an issue when in a FIREFIGHT, because both sides are fighting the same way. If one side is lagging, so is the other, and both people miss. But if one player is rushing another, desync isn't really an issue, because even if you get a big lag spike while bum rushing someone with a hatchet, they did too, so they have a hard time shooting you, while all you have to do is land a few very easy to land hits at close range. Hard to explain exactly what I'm trying to say further than that... hmm... Imagine you were playing world of tanks as a regular tank, and you had to render the entire map fully. Now imagine there was a fictional new artillery mode, where all you have to load is just a PNG of the map itself with little icons floating to show where the tanks are. If there are framerate issues due to the map's complexity and the game's graphics, only the tanks will experience it. The fictional artillery player will not, and will therefore be at a severe advantage to other players. The tanks on the ground, however, will ALL be running at low FPS. 

 

That's probably a god-awful analogy, but I don't know how else to explain it.

 

TL;DR Its cheap and the way the combat in game works, it actually benefits you as a hatchet player if the game is lagging as its harder to hit someone who's rushing you than it is for them to hit you while rushing you.

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4 minutes ago, munchiesnOOb said:

 

TL;DR Its cheap and the way the combat in game works, it actually benefits you as a hatchet player if the game is lagging as its harder to hit someone who's rushing you than it is for them to hit you while rushing you.

While this is true, if you see someone is lagging you can nope out and run away and reposition to shoot them again. I still can't say I've died to a hatchling, so I might be in the minority when it comes to seeing badly lagging hatchlings. It could also be an issue of the ammo you're using, some do less damage than others to unarmored opponents. This can let some hatchlings tank the extra shots, so it might not always be an issue of lag. Netcode does need to be fixed though. 

Edited by MadMacks
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