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Pr8Dator

Suggestion: Getting Shot With Armor

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This is how much it hurts even when a 9mm hits a class 2 armor:

The game should greatly increase the stagger or recoil on getting hit by a bullet in a body armor rather than armored operators behaving like Terminators shooting back continuously like nothing even happened.

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In fact, not wearing any armor at all would kill you eventually but should also allow bullets to pass right through without the staggering effect (apart from hollow points which is designed to create that stagger).

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Maybe more so pain effects, but I agree. Wearing soft armor and getting shot with even small calibers can break ribs, and cause other internal and external damage even with no penetration to the armor. Plate armor (metal inserts, like Fort Armor in some spots) will distribute the impact more but even with trauma plates it will still hurt or at least cause shock to the guy getting shot.

This community seems to deny this being the case though, and most people seem to just say it's perfect where it's at. Even with video evidence like you provided, and I provided evidence of EMS accounts of first responders treating injuries. So unfortunately this may go nowhere :c

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1 minute ago, Violetta said:

Maybe more so pain effects, but I agree. Wearing soft armor and getting shot with even small calibers can break ribs, and cause other internal and external damage even with no penetration to the armor. Plate armor (metal inserts, like Fort Armor in some spots) will distribute the impact more but even with trauma plates it will still hurt or at least cause shock to the guy getting shot.

This community seems to deny this being the case though, and most people seem to just say it's perfect where it's at. Even with video evidence like you provided, and I provided evidence of EMS accounts of first responders treating injuries. So unfortunately this may go nowhere :c

And this continues to be the reason behind Fort Armor Terminators... sigh... so much for a realistic shooter...

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10 minutes ago, Pr8Dator said:

And this continues to be the reason behind Fort Armor Terminators... sigh... so much for a realistic shooter...

Yes sir, they scream realism but run around with Fort Armor and M4s with 60 round drum mags full autoing everything while drinking Grizzly Kits. : ^)

I know some of that crap will get fixed but still. Hilarious hypocrisy.

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2 minutes ago, Violetta said:

Yes sir, they scream realism but run around with Fort Armor and M4s with 60 round drum mags full autoing everything while drinking Grizzly Kits. : ^)

I know some of that crap will get fixed but still. Hilarious hypocrisy.

Yup! But at least the new medical animations with this new patch will cut this BS down a little bit

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17 minutes ago, UncleDark said:

there is no medical animations in the new patch... only mag reload that takes longer.

OH? I thought I saw the medical animation thing in a note some where... this is something that seriously needs fixing... so sad its not going to be fixed. Magic voodoo doctor just won't do.

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Dont worry it'll come eventually. Also they are constantly tweaking armors and other things. So while it may take a while this game will eventually become more of a tactical team based milsim, instead of current CoD style run and gun with sprinkle of spray and pray.

Next patch, while temporaly disabling aim-punch (untill it's closer to a real thing), increases gun recoil by 20% and puts that time consuming mag reloading into the game (about 29s for 30rnd clip). Also it brings actual hitbox for face. So even if someone is running with fort and fast, without proper face shield it'll be one hit kill if the round connects with the flesh.

Edited by UncleDark

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5 minutes ago, UncleDark said:

Dont worry it'll come eventually. Also they are constantly tweaking armors and other things. So while it may take a while this game will eventually become more of a tactical team based milsim, instead of current CoD style run and gun with sprinkle of spray and pray.

Next patch, while temporaly disabling aim-punch (untill it's closer to a real thing), increases gun recoil by 20% and puts that time consuming mag reloading into the game (about 29s for 30rnd clip). Also it brings actual hitbox for face. So even if someone is running with fort and fast, without proper face shield it'll be one hit kill if the round connects with the flesh.

Yes, I agree the game is definitely moving in the right direction. I am not sure why aim punch needs to be removed, actually when I see my aim being thrown off when I was hit, it felt real and it made me wanna run for cover.

5 minutes ago, UncleDark said:

Dont worry it'll come eventually. Also they are constantly tweaking armors and other things. So while it may take a while this game will eventually become more of a tactical team based milsim, instead of current CoD style run and gun with sprinkle of spray and pray.

Next patch, while temporaly disabling aim-punch (untill it's closer to a real thing), increases gun recoil by 20% and puts that time consuming mag reloading into the game (about 29s for 30rnd clip). Also it brings actual hitbox for face. So even if someone is running with fort and fast, without proper face shield it'll be one hit kill if the round connects with the flesh.

oooh... this makes buck shots so deadly out to maybe 20m where the spread would be wide enough that if you aim high on the chest some pallets might connect with the face!! I am soooo practising buckshot aiming in factory after the patch haha

Edited by Pr8Dator

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Yeah combine that with new 10 round mag for saiga-12, and we'll have new meta in our hands for a while. After that everyone will be running with those new helmets that have armored face covers on them. Then it's back to usual AP the crap out of them or blow their knees/arms to high heavens.

 

They are tweaking the aim punch because currently it's done in RNG fashion so from time to time you can get heavyer aim punch from being hit with a 9x18 than from 7.62x54R and chance for it actually happen is also a random thing not affected by any player actions besides shooting and rolling your lucky dices.

Edited by UncleDark

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15 minutes ago, UncleDark said:

Yeah combine that with new 10 round mag for saiga-12, and we'll have new meta in our hands for a while. After that everyone will be running with those new helmets that have armored face covers on them. Then it's back to usual AP the crap out of them or blow their knees/arms to high heavens.

 

They are tweaking the aim punch because currently it's done in RNG fashion so from time to time you can get heavyer aim punch from being hit with a 9x18 than from 7.62x54R and chance for it actually happen is also a random thing not affected by any player actions besides shooting and rolling your lucky dices.

I actually think RNG aim punch is better than no aim punch... oh well.

I am concerned with the recoil increase thing though... I hope they don't increase it to become unrealistic just for the sake of increasing it. Many guns in real life, like the M4 and the AK74 and even the Saiga-12 do have extremely low recoil when used with the right muzzle brake.

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23 hours ago, Violetta said:

.

This community seems to deny this being the case though, and most people seem to just say it's perfect where it's at. Even with video evidence like you provided, and I provided evidence of EMS accounts of first responders treating injuries. So unfortunately this may go nowhere :c

I havent seen this once, Nobody ever said that tanking rounds with fort is OK as it is,  blunt force trauma is not implemented yet there is only aimpunch, in the future there will be more effects as you mentioned, broken ribs and bruises, loss of breath, shock and even some kind of unconcious state 

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But isn't the punch on the impact the same as the recoil of the gun ? Same energy, just in the opposite direction ?

Correct me if i'm wrong, but this is not the only thing you need to take care of then, cause many people did tests with armors stopping 7.62mm rounds out of AKs, and they are not taking that big of a hit because of how big and heavy the armor is.

Armor plates are strong and nothing gets across, on soft armors, the deformation of the vest can cause a 'breath chock' on impact.

I'm not sure how to explain it, but i hope you see what i mean.

Edited by PIG-Mathieu
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17 minutes ago, PIG-Mathieu said:

But isn't the punch on the impact the same as the recoil of the gun ? Same energy, just in the opposite direction ?

Correct me if i'm wrong, but this is not the only thing you need to take care of then, cause many people did tests with armors stopping 7.62mm rounds out of AKs, and they are not taking that big of a hit because of how big and heavy the armor is.

Armor plates are strong and nothing gets across, on soft armors, the deformation of the vest can cause a 'breath chock' on impact.

I'm not sure how to explain it, but i hope you see what i mean.

yes the force is the same, but when ure firing the gun much of the actual force is reduced by the recoil mechanism and barrel attachments such as muzzlebrake or suppressor also buttstocks are designed to dissipate the force so it is not so painfull, but on the recieving end of the fire, all that force is focused into a small point being the diameter of the bullet. Yes the force is not going to knock you down off your feet as is, but if ure off balance on uneven terrain or running it certainly can help you fall. and even with inserts to reduce blunt force trauma it can still brake your rib...

 

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On ‎2018‎-‎04‎-‎16 at 3:44 PM, Pr8Dator said:

Yup! But at least the new medical animations with this new patch will cut this BS down a little bit

so u say u want a game were if u take 2 bullet to the legs at resort on shorline u will have to crawl down to the exit Point?! say 20 min crawl!?  unless that is what u want from the game this is just as u say ! hypokrisy!

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@Saup141 No idea on how you came to that conclusion. the animation for meds (once added) means that instead of insta healing in middle of firefight it actually takes time for you to heal. In the next patch they are going to add timed mag reload. med use and others will come eventually. And most of us are actually waiting for those as they will force players to actually play smartly, instead of run & gun/spray & pray.

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3 minutes ago, UncleDark said:

@Saup141 No idea on how you came to that conclusion. the animation for meds (once added) means that instead of insta healing in middle of firefight it actually takes time for you to heal. In the next patch they are going to add timed mag reload. med use and others will come eventually. And most of us are actually waiting for those as they will force players to actually play smartly, instead of run & gun/spray & pray.

crap sorry bro wrote wrong guy!. but total realism will not be fun! 

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2 minutes ago, Saup141 said:

crap sorry bro wrote wrong guy!. but total realism will not be fun! 

I'm quite sure that it wont go as far as full realism, but it will get quite challenging/tactical once everything they planned for gets added.

Well have everything from timed/animated use for meds, consumables and mag reloads to guns jamming on bad ammo or lack of maintenance, addiction/OD on painkillers etc, vaulting system, limiting jumping depending weight you carry, persistent damage/status effects between raids (you need to get yourself fixed in your hideout). Additionally there will be some types of blackout/unconsious effects on blunt trauma. All in all it mimics realism.

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7.62x51 mm NATO aka .308 Winchester aka RSASS ammo out of an FN FAL from point blank range standing on one leg. Multiple shots to the same spot on early 1970's era technology soft kevlar, not enough to even cause him to have to put the other foot down. Once again disproving the theory proposed by many people on this forum suggesting they know what 'realism' is. 

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Here we go again with "IRL armor works better/worse than in-game, pl0x fix".

The truth is that the human reaction to getting shot is almost purely mental, not physical. And in the history of people studying people getting shot, the only reliable conclusion is that it's random. If you want realism, the only way to really simulate it is pure RNG, which was already tried with aimpunch and everyone lost their minds.

So, assuming it's a (mostly) consistent effect, you can either punish everyone and effectively take them out of the fight the first time they get hit, even with armor - OR - you can assume a best-case scenario and let players remain effective after being shot.

Given that nobody wants to repeatedly spend twenty minutes crawling across the map to bleed out in a bush and RNG has already been pretty vocally denounced by the community, don't expect to ever incapacitate players with hits to hard armor plates.

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I'll just leave this here as an example of why I shake my head at people who believe you absolutely positively should be floored by any bullet hitting you in a plate. He literally looks like he can, and does, do this all day.

While he does get pushed back slightly by the impact it does not look like anything that would disrupt you performing an action of some form or another; at best, your concentration is gonna be scrambled for a bit. If he had adopted a shooters stance with one foot slightly behind him that energy transfer would likely be mitigated substantially.

 

@Starlight has got it right, it's almost 100% mental. If you get shot when you're not expecting it, you're probably gonna jump - if you were, then you'll more than likely be fine.

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4 minutes ago, UlyssesVengeanc said:

[...]

@Starlight has got it right, it's almost 100% mental. If you get shot when you're not expecting it, you're probably gonna jump - if you were, then you'll more than likely be fine.

And often the opposite is also just as true. Victims of 'sniper'-style ambush shootings, even children, have been shot without any reaction more than a flinch, then walked to seek aid having no idea how they had been injured.

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1 hour ago, Saup141 said:

so u say u want a game were if u take 2 bullet to the legs at resort on shorline u will have to crawl down to the exit Point?! say 20 min crawl!?  unless that is what u want from the game this is just as u say ! hypokrisy!

That should be the case. Sorry but I totally support a 20mins crawl in a game thats supposed to be selling due to realism. If not, I would just go play other more completed games, right?

1 hour ago, UncleDark said:

I'm quite sure that it wont go as far as full realism, but it will get quite challenging/tactical once everything they planned for gets added.

Well have everything from timed/animated use for meds, consumables and mag reloads to guns jamming on bad ammo or lack of maintenance, addiction/OD on painkillers etc, vaulting system, limiting jumping depending weight you carry, persistent damage/status effects between raids (you need to get yourself fixed in your hideout). Additionally there will be some types of blackout/unconsious effects on blunt trauma. All in all it mimics realism.

That sounds like the game I have been waiting for over the past 30 years. :)

 

I guess the whole point of this suggestion is to not make Fort armor like some kind of ultimate protection with no drawbacks at all and so every player's aim is really to buy one as quickly as possible and become the terminator.

Edited by Pr8Dator

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4 minutes ago, Pr8Dator said:

That sounds like the game I have been waiting for over the past 30 years. :)

I know the feeling mate :bewhink:

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