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LukaTheSlav

Hatchling possible solution.

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LukaTheSlav

Okay, I think all of us are aware that hatchlings do exist and that hatchet running is highly effective and that it needs a rebalance/fix.

My idea/solution is not uniqe because I thought of it thanks to a comment on YouTube. Other people may have already suggested this, and if soo I apologize for repeating or spamming. 

Idea: Adding a PMC cooldown to the game for when you do not bring any primary or secondary weaopns, soo if you have a cooldown on your PMC you can simply remove it bt bringing atleast a TOZ - 106 or PM pistol, and like that they atleast have to risk something. Or if we want more drastic changes maybe add a bottom limit of how much the weapon has to be worth to remove the cooldown, like a Saiga 9 or a Vepr. The cooldown could be up to like 6-7 minutes maximum. 

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Forien

Even simplier solution: you loose melee weapon upon death, and if it's insured it comes back in 2/3/4/6/12 hours. 

If you didn't insure it you can either buy melee weapon from trader (Skier could sell ER Bayonet, couln't he?), or get from your Scav run. 

You lost your hatchet? Not my business. You can always loot someone's elses hatchet. 

PS. Before salt floods this thread. I guess that people that get hatchet from their preorder tier could have a button on their profile that gives them a hatchet. And like max 3 stack of uses and you regain 1 use per week. 

Edited by Forien

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LukaTheSlav

@ForienYea man, the problem is not the hatchet, neither is the problem of a hatchling killing you. The problem is they come in with nothing and just loot and escape raids with bitcoins, money, gold chains in their gammas and pooof, right through the exit. Making them carry something worth risking is better than even removing more from them. They will go in without hatchets also and just loot stuff into their gamma or other containers.

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Pr8Dator

Fixing the alpha container exploit is the way to end the hatchling phenomena

 

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Forien
3 minutes ago, LukaMasterz said:

@ForienYea man, the problem is not the hatchet, neither is the problem of a hatchling killing you. The problem is they come in with nothing and just loot and escape raids with bitcoins, money, gold chains in their gammas and pooof, right through the exit. Making them carry something worth risking is better than even removing more from them. They will go in without hatchets also and just loot stuff into their gamma or other containers.

Hatchet gives them ability to safely play against scavs. No weapon at all makes them ultra vulnerable to even the blindiest scavs. 

 

2 minutes ago, Pr8Dator said:

Fixing the alpha container exploit is the way to end the hatchling phenomena

It's not an exploit. Running as Hatchling is more of an exploit than Alpha Container. (and still, hatchlings are not exploiters by any definition)

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LukaTheSlav

@Pr8Dator Its not an exploit, there is no actual exploit, there is a Hatchling meta tho.

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Pr8Dator
1 minute ago, Forien said:

Hatchet gives them ability to safely play against scavs. No weapon at all makes them ultra vulnerable to even the blindiest scavs. 

 

It's not an exploit. Running as Hatchling is more of an exploit than Alpha Container. (and still, hatchlings are not exploiters by any definition)

I call it an exploit because its not about the hatchet... its always been about the alpha container, a mysterious magical container which anyone can just rush into a game, stuff things into it and die quickly and get it in their stash. That is the exploit and thats the basis behind running with a hatchet in the first place. Fix this and you will see the number of hatchlings decrease dramatically as they will realise that its next to impossible for them to profit from doing so.

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LukaTheSlav

@Forien The flaw in your idea is that a knife is cheaper than an actual fire arm which I am basically suggesting but in addition to a cooldown for going in with no gear.

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Pr8Dator
Just now, LukaMasterz said:

@Pr8Dator Its not an exploit, there is no actual exploit, there is a Hatchling meta tho.

I call it an exploit because its not realistic and is widely used by hatchlings. With or without hatchet, rush into a game, load up the alpha container and just die and still get everything. Thats the basis behind people running hatchets.

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Smeagol07

you see the radiation symbol next to your health/hunter/thirst? they will put the good loot in radationzones and give gear protection from radiation.  ez fix, but later in the game.

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Pr8Dator

There has been a few good suggestions by major streamers and myself on how to fix the alpha container thing. We all recognise that it is ultimately the alpha container and how it works now that contributed to the hatchling phenomena.

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LukaTheSlav

@Pr8Dator You can use @ to tag someone, its easier than quotes, but if the Alpha container is an exploit as you say man. What do you consider as a fix?

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Forien
3 minutes ago, Pr8Dator said:

I call it an exploit because its not realistic and is widely used by hatchlings. With or without hatchet, rush into a game, load up the alpha container and just die and still get everything. Thats the basis behind people running hatchets.

So I dare you going to CoD forums and spread the word on how "respawning is an exploit". After all "it's not realisting, thus it's an exploit". LOL! (you can't just go on and call basic game mechanic an exploit. You just can't. Learn definition of exploits)

 

4 minutes ago, LukaMasterz said:

@Forien The flaw in your idea is that a knife is cheaper than an actual fire arm which I am basically suggesting but in addition to a cooldown for going in with no gear.

Not if ER Bayonet (which you can't (or couldn't some time ago) sell to Fence) is the only available to buy and in limited amount. Also, knives are far inferior to hatchet. Many players will prefer to run naked (no melee) over paying for knife. They will die to first scav they see. Other will prefer to buy makarov for 5k roubles.

Edited by Forien

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LukaTheSlav

@Smeagol07 Sure that will reduce the hatchlings, but when is that going to be added? I guarantee not before 1.0

Edited by LukaMasterz

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Smeagol07
1 minute ago, LukaMasterz said:

@Smeagol07 Sure that will reduce the hatchlings, but when is that going to be added? I guarantee no before 1.0

we don't know, I guess when most of the maps are playable

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Pr8Dator
3 minutes ago, LukaMasterz said:

@Pr8Dator You can use @ to tag someone, its easier than quotes, but if the Alpha container is an exploit as you say man. What do you consider as a fix?

There's been a few suggestions by myself and some major streamers on this issue and they are:

1. Make it that you can only take out of the alpha container and not put into it in a raid. This will make it a way to insure your most precious items but not help into getting free loot. (suggestion by a major streamer which means a suggestion the dev actually listen to)

2. Make it so that a trader retrieves your alpha container and you need to pay a price to redeem it if you died rather than escape with it. This will make it that the player, with no other choice should move on to playing Scavs instead and get loot and money the right way to redeem his container and loot.

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OneTrueLizardo

I've told this numerous times: Stop whining about hatchlings, it's a valid strategy and devs said it too. Do you really think the hatchling gets an alpha container full of bitcoins every raid? Nope. Mostly he gets a few thousand rubles worth. Also if you are so upset about people running to loot spots before you, why won't YOU run there?

As for the solution I've seen some stupid ideas about people having to pay to enter a raid and the cost depending on your gear or removing hatchets from the game etc... You are really not thinking clearly. If you say the problem AT IT'S CORE is people putting stuff in their container and leaving with it without you being able to loot it then what is THE most simple solution?

Make the container secure only things you brough in to the raid. Everything you put inside it, is not secure until exfil.

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LukaTheSlav

@Forien That is not a bad idea man, I cant disagree, but just the feeling without no knife, I mean eh xD

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Pr8Dator
1 minute ago, OneTrueLizardo said:

I've told this numerous times: Stop whining about hatchlings, it's a valid strategy and devs said it too. Do you really think the hatchling gets an alpha container full of bitcoins every raid? Nope. Mostly he gets a few thousand rubles worth. Also if you are so upset about people running to loot spots before you, why won't YOU run there?

As for the solution I've seen some stupid ideas about people having to pay to enter a raid and the cost depending on your gear or removing hatchets from the game etc... You are really not thinking clearly. If you say the problem AT IT'S CORE is people putting stuff in their container and leaving with it without you being able to loot it then what is THE most simple solution?

Make the container secure only things you brough in to the raid. Everything you put inside it, is not secure until exfil.

EXACTLY what I have been saying so far and so many people don't get it... the alpha container is the problem, not the hatchling. You are right there pal!

Don't understand the rationale of an unlootable magic container in a hardcore survival game in the first place. Wonder what the devs were thinking... opens up a whole bunch of problems.

Edited by Pr8Dator

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Forien
3 minutes ago, OneTrueLizardo said:

Also if you are so upset about people running to loot spots before you, why won't YOU run there?

While I mostly agree with what you say, this one sentence I quoted is just plain logical fallacy. There are players that want slow paced tactical gameplay, you can't just tell them "you suck, just rush like I do". 

A still think that making melee weapon loseable/lootable (just like firearms and backpacks etc.) will reduce hatchlings. Of course, for people wanting to play this way, they will still be able to. 

Edited by Forien

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LukaTheSlav

@OneTrueLizardo You basically referring to Deadlys idea about the health system which is basically paying to get into a raid? No offense please if your not referring to him. But Im not complaining about hatchlings, I dont really mind because I do it myself, for me its a bonus, they die, I take their dog tag, take rest of the good loot if I killed them before they got to a hotspot and easy, but a lot of people seem to disagree with hatchlings soo Im just giving my idea, the forum is all about discussion man :)

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OneTrueLizardo
1 minute ago, Forien said:

While I mostly agree with what you say, this one sentence I quoted is just plain logical fallacy. There are players that want slow paced tactical gameplay, you can't just tell them "you suck, just rush like I do".

It's not a "logical fallacy" since I am not making a logical interpolation between two sets of data. I AM however just plainly asking why are you so triggered by other people playing fast and not "slow paced and tactical"? I love playing tactical and I recognize that the one who plays aggressive has different pros to his tactic. I have my own pros while slowplaying and sadly getting first to that bitcoin ain't one of em. That doesn't mean other people have to slow down for my enjoyment.

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Pr8Dator
8 minutes ago, Forien said:

While I mostly agree with what you say, this one sentence I quoted is just plain logical fallacy. There are players that want slow paced tactical gameplay, you can't just tell them "you suck, just rush like I do". 

A still think that making melee weapon loseable/lootable (just like firearms and backpacks etc.) will reduce hatchlings. Of course, for people wanting to play this way, they will still be able to. 

and there are players who just spawn way closer to the loot spot haha

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OneTrueLizardo
4 minutes ago, LukaMasterz said:

@OneTrueLizardo You basically referring to Deadlys idea about the health system which is basically paying to get into a raid? No offense please if your not referring to him. But Im not complaining about hatchlings, I dont really mind because I do it myself, for me its a bonus, they die, I take their dog tag, take rest of the good loot if I killed them before they got to a hotspot and easy, but a lot of people seem to disagree with hatchlings soo Im just giving my idea, the forum is all about discussion man :)

I do appreciate people talking and trying to improve this game but the way these discussions are conducted are counterproductive in nature. Instead of premising the discourse on a note of "how can we encourage people to play with gear more?" this forum is filled with "hatchlings are cancer / solution to hatchling problem / hatchling solutions / stop the hatchlings / hatchlings are ruining this game".

People need to step off their high horse and recognize that other people also paid for this game. Instead of trying to attack other peoples playstyles, maybe we should start the whole discussion on a more constructive note? I totally agree that hatchet running is too easy at the moment for farming and questing. Encouraging people to always raid with gear would add so much more to this game but I don't stand behind the idea of banning or forcing peoples hand.

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