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KassaK

What if keys can break when you unlock something ? Stop loop farming...

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KassaK

Hi,

I'm thinking about the key system in EFT and "hatchets mans", for example the marked room in Custom, if you want to loot this room you have no choice, go hatchet and run to the room before the other.

Players farm this in loop, hatchet, run, if they die the do it again, and again and again.... If a normal player (stuff) want to loot the marked, he can't, somes hatchets have already opened it. Each game it's the same, you have few players with stuff, and the rest of the game is hatchets.

It's the same problem for each good loot location in the game, hatchets will do it in a loop, and for me it breaks the damn game !

 

So my suggestion, what if keys can break when you unlock something ? For example you have the marked key, you unlock the door and "Bing!" : the key is broken, you have to find another key for the next time.

The idea is to stop players farm the same location again and again and again,  if they do not have the key, they will not be able to farm... 

Edited by KassaK
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Admiralbull63

I am not trying to start a rumor but, I think this idea is in the works for the future (final) release. A buddy who watches Klean's twitch told me that he had heard Klean mention that keys would become degradable and have only so many usages before having to farm for them again. Just my two cents....

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Did117

Yeah man, keys should be perishable...

Sure, the hatchlings aren't a problem now, so with perishable keys hatchling spam won't become even worse than it is right now are now...

Since they won't farm even harder after specific keys, and the loot they give access to...

Right?

"Oh what do you mean YOU open the door? My key is almost dead! YOU do eet mate!"

 

Can already see where this is going, hundreds of keys, all of them unique yet perishable.

Massive amounts of farming with a dubious success rate on top of a limited amount of uses...

Yeah, """good""" """"""""idea""""""" mate ;)

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Tactical_Tracke
19 minutes ago, KassaK said:

Hi,

I'm thinking about the key system in EFT and "hatchets mans", for example the marked room in Custom, if you want to loot this room you have no choice, go hatchet and run to the room before the other.

Players farm this in loop, hatchet, run, if they die the do it again, and again and again.... If a normal player (stuff) want to loot the marked, he can't, somes hatchets have already opened it. Each game it's the same, you have few players with stuff, and the rest of the game is hatchets.

It's the same problem for each good loot location in the game, hatchets will do it in a loop, and for me it breaks the damn game !

 

So my suggestion, what if keys can break when you unlock something ? For example you have the marked key, you unlock the door and "Bing!" : the key is broken, you have to find another key for the next time.

The idea is to stop players farm the same location again and again and again,  if they do not have the key, they will not be able to farm... 

You're severely undervaluing the craftsmanship in keys. Pretty sure the Keysmith's Union would like to have a word with you. 

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Pr8Dator

I think its a great idea... buying a key once, putting it in the magic container to loot over and over again is just unreal. In fact, I do think keys should be one use only.

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KassaK
5 minutes ago, PlatypusRex said:

Yeah man, keys should be perishable...

Sure, the hatchlings aren't a problem now, so with perishable keys hatchling spam won't become even worse than it is right now are now...

Since they won't farm even harder after specific keys, and the loot they give access to...

Right?

"Oh what do you mean YOU open the door? My key is almost dead! YOU do eet mate!"

 

Can already see where this is going, hundreds of keys, all of them unique yet perishable.

Massive amounts of farming with a dubious success rate on top of a limited amount of uses...

Yeah, """good""" """"""""idea""""""" mate ;)

Don't understand what you mean bro !

6 minutes ago, Tealc said:

This is not realistic my keys are 15 years old with no problems

It's a game, they are many things not realistic, and you can imagine keys and locks are deteriorated. 

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Did117

I mean if you want to end the hatchling invasion you don't do it by increasing the amount of necessary farming...

People do hatched runs to farm.

Farming isn't playing the game as it was intended to. Raiding is or rather SURVIVING raids.

It is merely an option. Not the whole point. By making the keys perishable you're in effect making farming an ever more important aspect of the game than raiding!

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Niahkl
vor 31 Minuten schrieb KassaK:

Hi,

I'm thinking about the key system in EFT and "hatchets mans", for example the marked room in Custom, if you want to loot this room you have no choice, go hatchet and run to the room before the other.

Players farm this in loop, hatchet, run, if they die the do it again, and again and again.... If a normal player (stuff) want to loot the marked, he can't, somes hatchets have already opened it. Each game it's the same, you have few players with stuff, and the rest of the game is hatchets.

It's the same problem for each good loot location in the game, hatchets will do it in a loop, and for me it breaks the damn game !

 

So my suggestion, what if keys can break when you unlock something ? For example you have the marked key, you unlock the door and "Bing!" : the key is broken, you have to find another key for the next time.

The idea is to stop players farm the same location again and again and again,  if they do not have the key, they will not be able to farm... 

A) not true. The marked room is not opened alot of times when i arrive there geared. Also other places.

B) If you have to farm a key again, you just expand the farming loop.

Noty.

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mcloud

Simple, put a shotgun scav in marked room.

 

Scavs should protect high loot areas more.

 

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KassaK
12 minutes ago, PlatypusRex said:

I mean if you want to end the hatchling invasion you don't do it by increasing the amount of necessary farming...

People do hatched runs to farm.

Farming isn't playing the game as it was intended to. Raiding is or rather SURVIVING raids.

It is merely an option. Not the whole point. By making the keys perishable you're in effect making farming an ever more important aspect of the game than raiding!

They do hatched run for farm a location when they have the key. If they want to get another key they will have to play better like just run naked to a location. If people can't open the marked room over and over, loot this room will become rare and you have a chance to go full stuff, take your time and unlock the door whith your precious key.

 

Edited by KassaK

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mcloud
3 minutes ago, Tealc said:

This is not possible to many bots make the FPS to bad lol

The scavs ar already on the map, just relocate them to protect important loot locations instead of worthless locations.

 

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mcloud

and no one will miss him, until they rush to the door and open it and stare in a shotgun.

 

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reemr

Key durability would be very good because it would make most hatchlings want to save the key until they can go geared and safely-ish bring open the doors for the rare spawn rooms. 

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KassaK
12 minutes ago, Niahkl said:

A) not true. The marked room is not opened alot of times when i arrive there geared. Also other places.

B) If you have to farm a key again, you just expand the farming loop.

Noty.

A) So you are very lucky ! For me each time it's already opened and without mention luck or unluck, each game you have a majority of players who just run naked to the location, it's a fact.

B) Yes, but the marked room (and other location like that) is not a mandatory thing for play the game. For me it's a bonus, if you are lucky and you have the key, you can try to open and see what you got. And farm a key like that it's more complicated like just run over and over to a location in a map without stuff, skills or brain.

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Airbornemedic75

The problem is, no matter how you do it, someone will complain.  I currently don't see a problem with the way things are with keys now.  Some of them are a real pain to get, such as the factory key.  Either way, folks will still farm keys and folks wills till farm high value loot.  A game can only be so realistic.  Some things are just going to have to work the way they are.  Finding a balance will sometimes be difficult.

On a side note:  I would personally like a little more randomness and low drop chance.

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Pr8Dator
1 hour ago, Tealc said:

This is not possible to many bots make the FPS to bad lol

Oh, its actually coming! Boss Scavs with their elite lackeys protecting key positions.

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Tactical_Tracke
3 hours ago, KassaK said:

Don't understand what you mean bro !

It's a game, they are many things not realistic, and you can imagine keys and locks are deteriorated. 

Locks don't deteriorate that quickly, Especially door locks. 

Even if they did something like that, Easy enough solution. WD-40.

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Forien
7 hours ago, Tealc said:

The devs will make the game realistic as is possible.

So no more secure containers then? Stop cherry-picking.

 

IMHO keys should have either limited use (let's say each key has max 30 uses, and when you loot key it can be anywhere between 5 and 30), or they should have % of breaking (if it breaks it should still open the door).

That will help with people rushing to single room, because every time they open a room they risk the key. So people will start looting rooms mostly when they are geared and/or in a group to make the most of a key.

It will also make more incentive for people to play all the maps, because they will need constant supply of the keys. And it will mitigate the problem that Marked Room is OP in the first week (only ilike 0.01% of players got the key at that point) and useless after that (because you never get there first if you aren't hatchling)

Edited by Forien

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SniperInTheMist
11 hours ago, KassaK said:

 

 

 

11 hours ago, Admiralbull63 said:

I am not trying to start a rumor but, I think this idea is in the works for the future (final) release. A buddy who watches Klean's twitch told me that he had heard Klean mention that keys would become degradable and have only so many usages before having to farm for them again. Just my two cents....

This game is meant to be realistice keys in real life do not break by measly using them that would be just plain dumb. They are already adding lockpicking to the game with certain amount of uses. There is no point for key degredation because anyone with a lockpick can get through doors. Along with their are other measures in the thought train such as hp persistience that will stop hatchlings. Also listening to Klean especially someone else that listens to Klean is the most unreliable source possible. Klean just because he talks to a dev occasionally does not make him a know it all. He has been wrong saying things more times than I can count. I dont mind watching his stream but he is not a reliable source for EFT intel. Please keep that in mind.

Edited by SniperInTheMist

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SniperInTheMist
3 hours ago, Forien said:

So no more secure containers then? Stop cherry-picking.

 

IMHO keys should have either limited use (let's say each key has max 30 uses, and when you loot key it can be anywhere between 5 and 30), or they should have % of breaking (if it breaks it should still open the door).

That will help with people rushing to single room, because every time they open a room they risk the key. So people will start looting rooms mostly when they are geared and/or in a group to make the most of a key.

It will also make more incentive for people to play all the maps, because they will need constant supply of the keys. And it will mitigate the problem that Marked Room is OP in the first week (only ilike 0.01% of players got the key at that point) and useless after that (because you never get there first if you aren't hatchling)

5

That is not logical, and containers are part of the game I doubt they will ever be removed. They already have other measures in the thought train to combat hatchling running. They already have the mechanisms for locking picking done they can be seen in other EFT trailers. Along with it is a skill, there is no point to make keys degradable and they are trying to keep it as realistic as possible. Saying its cherry picking to then not get rid of the secure container is like saying it's not a game. There will always be parts that are not realistic in every single game. 

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Forien
1 hour ago, SniperInTheMist said:

That is not logical, and containers are part of the game I doubt they will ever be removed. They already have other measures in the thought train to combat hatchling running. They already have the mechanisms for locking picking done they can be seen in other EFT trailers. Along with it is a skill, there is no point to make keys degradable and they are trying to keep it as realistic as possible. Saying its cherry picking to then not get rid of the secure container is like saying it's not a game. There will always be parts that are not realistic in every single game. 

You misunderstood. The whole "it's not realistic, therefore it shouldn't have place in the game", while defending for example secure container is cherry-picking.

My whole point was that the devs said they want this game to be "as realistic, as possible", but obviously there should be mechanics in place that are not 100% realistic to keep game playable and enjoyable for the extended period of time. And keys deterioration is one example of mechanic that is not perfectly realistic, but would benefit gameplay. 

If someone still stands by his "but dis iz not real!" argument I dare that person to discard (discard, not sell) his/her alpha/beta/gamma/epsilon container. Because either they are cherry-picking (hence that sentence in my previous post) hypocrits, or they want game to be uber-realistic, which would be unplayable (AFAIK even devs and many hardcore EfT players don't want realism to go to that extend).

 

TL;DR:

I'm not against secure containers, I like them. And they are perfect example that while "realism" is the target, it should not be an argument. And I believe deteriorating keys are good for the game.

Edited by Forien

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Vuorinorri

while I wouldn't really enjoy keys being perishable, I understand why they should be. Imo good value would be something between 10-20 usages.

But I would also throw 1-2 scavs and scav boss around good looting rooms (marked room as example). I don't think that would kill performance too much worse than it actually is already

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Violetta

Perishable keys will just induce more hatchet farming runs. People will just farm multiple keys instead of just one, so in a sense destructible keys will just make it worse. This is also unrealistic, I have never encountered a key that doesn't work after used x amount of times. Even locks placed outside in the elements retain their functionality. That stuff is crafted extremely well.

Just learn to live with hatchet-runners. The developers have already said this is a viable tactic. The only idea I support in this topic are more scavs on high-loot areas. But with the optimization in the game right now, more AI might really hurt people's FPS.

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orion310591

Perishing keys or not, it will be the same... people who want to play naked, will play naked... its not that they are after big items after all.. they do it mostly for items that can get into gamma... multiply that by some number and they will get guns from traders...

50 usages or key is 50 usages, I doubt that people will use gear more often, they will just avoid marked rooms and hurry even more to "open" loot areas...

it can simply lead to locked doors being less explored...

srsly, keys in real life can be used for 20 40 years... no realism in implementing such thing...

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SniperInTheMist
On ‎4‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 9:40 PM, Forien said:

You misunderstood. The whole "it's not realistic, therefore it shouldn't have place in the game", while defending for example secure container is cherry-picking.

My whole point was that the devs said they want this game to be "as realistic, as possible", but obviously there should be mechanics in place that are not 100% realistic to keep game playable and enjoyable for the extended period of time. And keys deterioration is one example of mechanic that is not perfectly realistic, but would benefit gameplay. 

If someone still stands by his "but dis iz not real!" argument I dare that person to discard (discard, not sell) his/her alpha/beta/gamma/epsilon container. Because either they are cherry-picking (hence that sentence in my previous post) hypocrits, or they want game to be uber-realistic, which would be unplayable (AFAIK even devs and many hardcore EfT players don't want realism to go to that extend).

 

TL;DR:

I'm not against secure containers, I like them. And they are perfect example that while "realism" is the target, it should not be an argument. And I believe deteriorating keys are good for the game.

I know I just disagree with the degredation of keys, being that there is going to be lockpicking I dont see this being worth or plausible. If the concept is to stop hatchlings which I have seen people talking about in this peice. It is much more plausible to go with some of the other things they have in mind. I understand what you are saying about realism but never "straight realism" and I agree.

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