Jump to content
AirRegalia

Armor feels weak and Expensive

Recommended Posts

AirRegalia

I've noticed that even with an Untar I die from two bullets to the chest from anyone that isn't using PRS on an AK. It is so expensive yet only saves you from a few PST 9x19, all 9x18, and a few shot gun rounds. While that is useful the introduction of the face hit box makes it easy to kill anyone alongside stupidly expensive prices I feel that armor is useless at this point. I barely run with a helmet because 6B's (don't have have skier to level 3 do to being level 22, so i can't use a kiver and won't because of sound) only cover your scalp and you can die from being shot at head level from any side and comtacs are worse than no helmet/no comtacs. ( I feel i hear more without either.) And with the muffled sound along side the glitch were someone doesn't make any noise to begin with, armor just feels like expensive outfits.

  • Like 4
  • Hot 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pr8Dator

Yup, that is why:

1. You should not be BUYING body armor but looting for them. They are definitely not worth the cost of a weapon.

2. They only protect you from one bad shot. One good shot is still going to kill you. They are there to give you a very slight edge only. Thats why I always said, if you can't survive without armor, you aren't going to survive with armor either.

3. LOTS of bullets have great penetration and PMC players use those bullets. Thats why I would say body armor is only good when playing against Scavs and their shotguns (make sure you have a helmet with visor cos they FACE SHOT well). Thats why I always rock in offline mode to suck in PVP mode.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Vodor
10 hours ago, AirRegalia said:

I've noticed that even with an Untar I die from two bullets to the chest from anyone that isn't using PRS on an AK.

Curious to know how you can tell what bullets the enemy are using...

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Phoenixsui
vor 19 Minuten schrieb Vodor:

Curious to know how you can tell what bullets the enemy are using...

After you kill them you loot them and see it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Vodor
1 minute ago, Phoenixsui said:

After you kill them you loot them and see it.

Yeah if you kill them but then you didn’t die did you?

They said they DIE in a few bullets by anyone not using PRS, thus my question of how did they know what bullets the enemy was using?

Its entirely possible their mate killed them and checked, now I’ve just given away the answer I didn’t want to hear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Phoenixsui
vor 2 Minuten schrieb Vodor:

Yeah if you kill them but then you didn’t die did you?

They said they DIE in a few bullets by anyone not using PRS, thus my question of how did they know what bullets the enemy was using?

Its entirely possible their mate killed them and checked, now I’ve just given away the answer I didn’t want to hear.

Hahaha great lol ;D.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Smeagol07

right now body armor is only working against scavs.

against players who buy ammo that can penetrate lvl 3 armor (lvl 1 prapor), wearing armor is a disadvantage. 

 

I don't know why the devs make the game like this, but right now pmcs with armor lose against pmcs without armor. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Eragon284th
8 minutes ago, Smeagol07 said:

right now body armor is only working against scavs.

against players who buy ammo that can penetrate lvl 3 armor (lvl 1 prapor), wearing armor is a disadvantage. 

 

I don't know why the devs make the game like this, but right now pmcs with armor lose against pmcs without armor. 

In general pmcs with armor destroy those without. As for why they are [making a game like this] it's because that is realistic. There is no soft body armor in the world that will save you from ap rounds. And the plate armor? If a round is designed to penetrate it, expect it to do so

40 minutes ago, Vodor said:

Curious to know how you can tell what bullets the enemy are using...

I'm fairly certain he was saying the only round that an ak fires that the armor will stop is the GARBAGE known as PRS that everyone keeps swearing is good 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Phoenixsui

Is it really a disadvantage or how does penetration exactly work?

You write as if one with armor get more dmg by 1 bullet than one without any protection?

I got saved many times by armor so far in 0.8.

I got never 1 tapped if not headshot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Smeagol07
11 minutes ago, Eragon284th said:

In general pmcs with armor destroy those without. 

false. this is the topic of the thread. you are used to win with armor against people without. that's why people in the military wear it. but in this game it works the other way around, and that's why people make a topic like this. because they pay rubles for expensive armor, but have an disadvantage against other pmcs.

 

you take 2 teams with each 5 players. both teams have the same weapons (m4/ak74/akm) and the same amount of ammo, grenades ... . but one team wears helmet (fast/w visor) + body armor(un), the other doesn't. both sides use standard ammo that penetrates lvl 3+ (you can buy them from prapor lvl 1).

now you let run both teams 100 times against each other. every bullet penetrates every armor, except the small part on top and the back of the fast helmet, but the team that runs naked doesn't have the runspeed/turningspeed/ergonomics penalty.

if both teams have the same skill, the team without the armor should win more often than the team wearing armor. for obv reasons because they have more runspeed/turningseed/ergonomics and 100% of their bullets penetrate the enemy armor.

 

this is just a logic calculation in theory. 

 

 

ps: if you say the small part of the helmet on top will save you, I have played 680 raids since the last wipe, and only survived a shot to the helmet 3 times. once I got hit by a hatchling, once by a pmc who didn't use ammo that penetrates lvl 3 and once by a scav. 

Edited by Smeagol07

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TheHappyMile

Armor is one factor. 

It can save your live. Or it doesn't. You're definitely diving faster without.  In a lot of situations your enemy has better position so he can just get out more shots to kill you.

In a "fair" 1 vs 1 I would always choose armor. In normal raids I take what I have try to loot it. But i would not buy right now (probably a PACA if I have the money to throw away).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Smeagol07
3 minutes ago, TheHappyMile said:

In a "fair" 1 vs 1 I would always choose armor. In normal raids I take what I have try to loot it. But i would not buy right now (probably a PACA if I have the money to throw away).

do you have any numbers to back this up?

 

I made tests, I analysed the ammo spreadsheet. the ps rounds from prapor lvl 1, that every lvl 1 player can buy can penetrate lvl 3 armor. so any player with a vepr, akm or sks who shoots at you with full armor, makes the same damage as if you were a naked hatchling. even the visor from the fast helmet is only lvl 3. 

so unless you have a fort armor (700k rubles) and a tushonka helmet (lvl 40 trader) you have the same defense as a hatchling against any pmc who buys ammo that penetrates lvl 3+. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TheHappyMile
vor 11 Minuten schrieb Smeagol07:

can penetrate lvl 3 armor. so any player with a vepr, akm or sks who shoots at you with full armor, makes the same damage as if you were a naked hatchling

I highly doubt that.

The amor even if be penetrated absorbes a percentage of the damage. Simple physics - the kinetic energy of the bullet -minus kinetic energy needed for penetration = kinetic energy that hit's the body itself.

 

If you do NOT penetrate, your bullet will decrease the arbor-value left but not damages you.

If you penetrate the amor, damage to armor is probably lower but you have direct damage to the player-health.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Smeagol07
2 minutes ago, TheHappyMile said:

I highly doubt that.

 

here are the official numbers for ammo:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-q1Yiof1FfGBlIoudl799BFyx_fMYEGt-TP2Itci4z0/edit#gid=0

if this is hard to understand, because the devs don't give the formula of penetration for each amor class, feel free to make tests ingame. then you will see that I m right. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
S1mpleM4n

This isnt world of warcraft, you arent a tank, body armor isnt/shouldnt going to make you indestructable like you want it to. Im quite sure it is functioning as intended....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Eragon284th
29 minutes ago, Smeagol07 said:

do you have any numbers to back this up?

 

I made tests, I analysed the ammo spreadsheet. the ps rounds from prapor lvl 1, that every lvl 1 player can buy can penetrate lvl 3 armor. so any player with a vepr, akm or sks who shoots at you with full armor, makes the same damage as if you were a naked hatchling. even the visor from the fast helmet is only lvl 3. 

so unless you have a fort armor (700k rubles) and a tushonka helmet (lvl 40 trader) you have the same defense as a hatchling against any pmc who buys ammo that penetrates lvl 3+. 

Fort armor is not 700k >.> Never has been. And the helmets have a very high chance of stopping even armor piercing rounds. Riccochet chance. Not only that, I've been shot in the head by skss wearing a un helmet or a 6b helmet, and lived. Concussion however made returning fire nigh on impossible.

 

47 minutes ago, Smeagol07 said:

false....

you take 2 teams with each 5 players. both teams have the same weapons (m4/ak74/akm) and the same amount of ammo, grenades ... . but one team wears helmet (fast/w visor) + body armor(un), the other doesn't. both sides use standard ammo that penetrates lvl 3+ (you can buy them from prapor lvl 1).

now you let run both teams 100 times against each other. every bullet penetrates every armor, except the small part on top and the back of the fast helmet, but the team that runs naked doesn't have the ..... ergonomics penalty

Let me buy that 995 from prapor at level 1. But in all seriousness, level 3 armor will stop most of the damages cause by ps ammo for 7.62x39 and 100% of the damage done by ps or PRS ammo of 5.45. It will also stop 855, 855A1, 856, 856A1, FMJ, HP, and mk255 mod0. That's what level 3 is RATED to stop. And in my 500 raids, I've been shot many times while wearing UNTAR helmet/armor, and it stops everything from scavs (excluding vss and sv98 sniper scavs). It might not stand up to that many hits, but it does stand up to at least one hit of the rounds mentioned. And that's all it needs to do. In a slugfest being able to take a round for free means you will always win. And as for there being an ergonomics penalty wearing armor, check the values again. Armor increases ergonomics. Armor with a shooters cut makes readying and firing a rifle faster, as there is a definitive slot for you to put the butt of the gun in. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AdhesiveTeflon

Just keep throwing grenades.  Those tend to kill very well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Smeagol07
5 minutes ago, Eragon284th said:

Fort armor is not 700k 

 

 level 3 armor will stop most of the damages cause by ps ammo 

fort armor can be bought for 2x bitcoin. I sell bitcoins for 350k rubles in the tradeforum, they get sold within 12 hours every single time.

 

have you made tests ingame with a buddy where your lvl 3 armor gets hit by ps rounds or do you just think about some situations where you think it did happen that way? big difference

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Eragon284th
6 minutes ago, Smeagol07 said:

fort armor can be bought for 2x bitcoin. I sell bitcoins for 350k rubles in the tradeforum, they get sold within 12 hours every single time.

 

have you made tests ingame with a buddy where your lvl 3 armor gets hit by ps rounds or do you just think about some situations where you think it did happen that way? big difference

 

There is another way to tell. Getting hit by someone using those rounds and living because the armor saved me. And even from scavs you can tell this, since they ONLY use PS rounds. And bitcoin for forts is a terrible trade. I trade 12 level 15 tags for em. That's about 160k a set. Or even better, use gold chains. Only need 7 per armor still 

Edited by Eragon284th

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Smeagol07

so your opinion is based on scavs hitting you and not on actual tests?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Eragon284th
7 minutes ago, Smeagol07 said:

so your opinion is based on scavs hitting you and not on actual tests?

No I'm merely stating that there is more than one way to tell if the armor stopped a round than having a friend shoot you. A controlled test like that doesn't tell you how it actually performs, but yes. I have had a friend shoot me to test it. On several occasions with different ammo types. And it did in fact stop m62 for .308. SP, ps, fmj, PRS, and hp for 5.45. 855, 855A1, 856, 856A1, fmj (m193), hp, and mk255 mod0 for 5.56. All mak but SP7, all 9mm, all .366tkm, all tokarev, none of the 7.62x54R, and only T45m, PS, and hp for 7.62x39.  The UN armor is the best option for 46k rubles until you unlock the gray armor from ragface for 70k which is level 4 and renders all rounds besides m61 for .308 and the ap 7.62x54R, ineffective for 1-5 shots. Out of an aks74u, BT rounds require 14 hits in the same spot on the grey armor to kill them. Same ammo needs 4 shots on UN armor. (And on PACA incidentally) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TheHappyMile
vor einer Stunde schrieb Smeagol07:

here are the official numbers for ammo:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-q1Yiof1FfGBlIoudl799BFyx_fMYEGt-TP2Itci4z0/edit#gid=0

if this is hard to understand, because the devs don't give the formula of penetration for each amor class, feel free to make tests ingame. then you will see that I m right. 

so neigther you read my post nor you understand the physics of bullets. gerat. i know the spreadsheet

Edited by TheHappyMile
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Xenomorph0352

IMO armor is in a great spot. I agree that it can feel weak/useless at times but I don't agree that it is expensive considering you can make about 1million roubles/hr give or take a few thousand. Makes for $400ish piece of armor about 20 minutes of your time. Not to mention how @Pr8Dator said you can always loot them off the corpse of enemies you've murdered.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wurfy
On 5/4/2018 at 4:57 PM, TheHappyMile said:

I highly doubt that.

The amor even if be penetrated absorbes a percentage of the damage. Simple physics - the kinetic energy of the bullet -minus kinetic energy needed for penetration = kinetic energy that hit's the body itself.

 

If you do NOT penetrate, your bullet will decrease the arbor-value left but not damages you.

If you penetrate the amor, damage to armor is probably lower but you have direct damage to the player-health.

Interestingly enough, what you assume here regarding reality may not necessarily be true.

A bullet's kinetic energy is one thing, transferring that kinetic energy to you is another. Armor piercing bullets are designed to transfer as little energy as possible to whatever it hits because that's how you beat armor. But that also means it won't transfer much energy to the human body, it'll just go straight through. If you have a kevlar vest, however, it may destabilize the bullet, causing it to yaw and transfer a whole lot more kinetic energy to you.

When soldiers wear kevlar and no plate, that's to stop low energy stuff like fragments, it's not there to reduce damage from bullet hits.

Also, realistically helmets should be literally next to useless in EFT. They should only help against hatchlings and sometimes grenade fragments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
eftballistics

It's not the armor that is too expensive or weak. It is that most players play on factory, which is extremly close range combat, where extreme firerate meets close distance. However on larger maps like interchange, combat turns into long range gunbattles with single aimed shots. And there, being able to walk away from 2 hits to take cover is worth a lot.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...
b38e7c858218a416ef714554dce933a2