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Forien

Rework KIBA keys [Idea]

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Forien

Hi there. Right now we have this issue with keys, that a hatchling with keybar in his gamma can have all keys and get to the best loot before anybody else. That's what breaks loot economy, because it's hard for full geared tactical squads to get to Marked Room on Customs, KIBA on Interchange and the best rooms in Shoreline's Resort. 

And while entirety of keys should be somehow reworked, I came up with IMHO quite nice idea for double-keys like KIBA.

For the sake of this post, let's name them:

  • Key A — Key to KIBA stor outlet (KIBA)
  • Key B — Key to KIBA Outlet grate door (KIBA 2)

Right now, anybody can loot Key A, especially hatchlings that now location of the key. It's no-brainer. 

Also, anybody can get Key B, it's just a matter of tasks. Therefore, there is as many Keys A, as people want (loot), but only a fraction of Keys B, depending on how many players did the task. And number of Keys B will always be less than (or at best equal as) total number of players. 

In the end, any single person can have both keys, and at the same time everybody can have the set.

MY IDEA, HOWEVER IS that Key A should not be lootable, and at the same time quest reward should be changed, so that half of the community gets Key A and half of the community gets Key B. This can be achieved with two slightly different approaches:

  1. USECs and BEARs gets their own variation of the task. One faction gets Key A, the other gets Key B
  2. Instead of rewarding key, task completion should reward (a working term) sealed key. Think of it as of "Schrödinger's Key". You (and game either) don't know what key is inside, until you open (unseal) the package. Then, game (server-side) decides which key you should be rewarded with. Game should try to be random, but also should try to maintain more or less 1:1 distribution.

 

OKAY, BUT WHAT BENEFIT WOULD THIS SYSTEM HAVE?

IMHO, this would ensure, firstly that access to KIBA is really rare and exclusive. There would never be more sets of keys than 50% of playerbase. That's really exclusive. Also, it would ensure that no solo player can open the doors, unless he trades for the key (and I can see that keys would be VERY expensive, if they can't be lootable and only way to get them is through tasks. Most of people would probably trade Key A for Key B and vice-versa), which will most likely cost him a lot.

It would benefit towards squad, because it requires two people to work together (either by giving out the key to one person in the squad, or by opening each door by a different player). 

And no, it would not eliminate "hatchling issue", but it would make it harder. It would actually give squads a chance.

 

Your thoughts?

 

Disclaimer: obviously, changes I propose would require a WIPE, so I'm not saying this should take effect now, but at the next major update.

Edited by Forien

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PIG-Mathieu

@Forien What you need to remember is what has been said in the "Talking Tarkov #2" podcast :

  • There will be 2 keys for the KIBA gun store.
  • 2 doors that lead to different parts of the store.
  • Keycards will come and unlock very high tear loot, but can be used only once.

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Forien
Just now, PIG-Mathieu said:

@Forien What you need to remember is what has been said in the "Talking Tarkov #2" podcast :

  • There will be 2 keys for the KIBA gun store.
  • 2 doors that lead to different parts of the store.

There are two keys already.

And they open two different doors to the store.

Currently you need both keys to open the store. And anybody can get both keys.

I'm not talking about opening doors with keys, because double-key is nice addition to the game. I was talking about system of acquiring those keys. Which leads me to conclusion that you haven't read my post. 

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PIG-Mathieu
7 minutes ago, Forien said:

There are two keys already.

And they open two different doors to the store.

Currently you need both keys to open the store. And anybody can get both keys.

I'm not talking about opening doors with keys, because double-key is nice addition to the game. I was talking about system of acquiring those keys. Which leads me to conclusion that you haven't read my post. 

Thanks for your concern, but you i read your post.

I'm talking about 2 different access to the store, 2 parts of the store not connected to each others that can be opened by 2 different sets of key, which leads me to conclusion that you haven't watch the podcast.

With the introduction of keycards, I think doors like this one will not be openable with a single key that works every time..

7 minutes ago, Forien said:

Currently you need both keys to open the store. And anybody can get both keys.

I didn't know about that tho, do you need 2 different keys ? Isn't the kiba key unlocking both doors ?

Edited by PIG-Mathieu

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Forien
11 minutes ago, PIG-Mathieu said:

I'm talking about 2 different access to the store, 2 parts of the store not connected to each others that can be opened by 2 different sets of key, which leads me to conclusion that you haven't watch the podcast.

I haven't. So? Does it (promise that in the future there will be other set of two keys to open other part of the store) in any way invalidate my idea? No. Does it in any way makes my idea less good or less sensible? I don't think so.

If there will be two sets, then both sets could follow limited distribution idea. Or only one. Doesn't matter if current set will be the only in the game, or if they will add hundreds of key sets. They could still limit and control distribution of those set keys (for all, or some of the sets). 

TL;DR: you brought up a thing that has little to nothing to do with my original post here. No offence, but please stay on tracks. 

 

11 minutes ago, PIG-Mathieu said:

I didn't know about that tho, do you need 2 different keys ? Isn't the kiba key unlocking both doors ?

There are two KIBA keys, and both are needed – as I stated (maybe not clear enough, I assumed it to be common knowledge) in my original post. Here you have a screen:

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.ed4e670775824537966d0e7e23878535.png

 

Edited by Forien

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PIG-Mathieu
1 minute ago, Forien said:

I haven't. So? Does it (promise that in the future there will be other set of two keys to open other part of the store) in any way invalidate my idea? No. Does it in any way makes my idea less good or less sensible? I don't think so.

Well, it kinda does, since it shows that such a system would be require for EVERY rooms with high tier loot like the KIBA gun store, or some rooms in shoreline f.e, making this system quite time consuming to implement.

What's currently planned is key cards that could be optain as a reward from scav boss (F.E) and could be used only once to unlock such rooms. It's planned, the models are made and most of it is done already (last podcast).

6 minutes ago, Forien said:

TL;DR: you brought up a thing that has little to nothing to do with my original post here. No offence, but please stay on tracks. 

Well, as i said, your system aims at reducing the access to such rooms. Something else is planned and it's almost done already. On top of that it is way easier to manage than having so many keys, some as rewards from quests(so not lootable, meaning not in loot tables) and others that could be lootable (in loot tables)...

I mean quests systems can be a pain in the §%* to make and to manage, its quite easier to manage a simple keycard system than a system like yours, with multiple tasks variants, loot tables, rewards....

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Forien
4 minutes ago, PIG-Mathieu said:

On top of that it is way easier to manage than having so many keys, some as rewards from quests(so not lootable, meaning not in loot tables) and others that could be lootable (in loot tables)...

But that's the current system! Which I wish to change! Please read my original post again. Carefully. And notice words "currently", "right now" and "my idea". Please.

You need two keys, and right now one is lootable, one is task reward. Jeez... I'm talking to a wall >_> 

 

Edited by Forien

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mcloud

Simple, put a shotgun scav in front as a patrol and a boss scav with armor and two bodyguard scavs inside.

No more hatchling run possible.

Scavs should patrol entrances and guard important high loot places more.

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8mob8

assuming all the best loot fits into the secure container, sure

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Forien
8 minutes ago, 8mob8 said:

assuming all the best loot fits into the secure container, sure

Because it's so "hard" to run off with RSASS and DVL on your back...

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KugelFanger
58 minutes ago, Forien said:

There are two keys already.

And they open two different doors to the store.

Currently you need both keys to open the store. And anybody can get both keys.

I'm not talking about opening doors with keys, because double-key is nice addition to the game. I was talking about system of acquiring those keys. Which leads me to conclusion that you haven't read my post. 

In the podcast they said: 2 keys with high durabillity and a 3 (or rework) swipe card with 1 time use. But you would get very high tier loot (and you will need a squad to protect that)

As for your idea: there should be both, rooms with high tier guns but only 1 or 2 spawns for people that like to play alone (markedroom and such) but also rooms.with lots of loot but only suitable to go in with a group.

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Forien
29 minutes ago, PIG-Mathieu said:

No it is not the current system, the current system does not have the Kiba key as a trader reward, it's in the loot tables right now.

You are either trolling me, or you are both ignorant and arrogant... either way, just stop posting. 

Now, how would you explain this? (task details and trader covered for those sensitive about spoilers):

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.0eb64eed18ef2f966aa111b1a0feb882.png

I'm waiting for typical "it's fake, it's photoshopped, NASA lies!" stuff coming. 

And it's not like I didn't already show you both keys on one screen. I own them both. So... I don't know, just stop... 

 

24 minutes ago, KugelFanger said:

As for your idea: there should be both, rooms with high tier guns but only 1 or 2 spawns for people that like to play alone (markedroom and such) but also rooms.with lots of loot but only suitable to go in with a group.

Yup, I totally agree. All I was saying in my original post is that, if there are two keys needed (like for KIBA right now), they could be evenly distributed in the community, while still being kind of exclusive and rare. That's all I proposed ;) 

What I said in no way touches the Marked Room (or it's issues), because that's not the point here :) 

 

Edited by Forien

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PIG-Mathieu
16 minutes ago, Forien said:

You are either trolling me, or you are both ignorant and arrogant... either way, just stop posting. 

Now, explain this (task details and trader covered for those sensitive about spoilers):

  Hide contents

image.thumb.png.0eb64eed18ef2f966aa111b1a0feb882.png

 

 

I'll post if i want to, but once again, thanks for your concerns. I feel like you are not reading my posts, it's like the third time i'm saying that.

Let me sum things up real quick : "You are against my POV, stop posting, you think like i think, then go on and post" ?!

Is this how you are thinking ?

 

About the point, (because i don't think you've been reading my previous posts) you want to prevent people from coming in with axes and just grab the loot and bail. Well isn't that what the key card is going to do ? Or you might think you'll be fighting scav bosses with axes ?

Isn't the kiba key in the loot tables right now ? Yes it is

Can you really even get near the place with an axe an survive right now ? This place is where every gunfights are happening....

Splitting keys like that is not a bad idea, but it can not be done for all doors.

 

 

Edited by PIG-Mathieu

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Forien
7 minutes ago, PIG-Mathieu said:

-- irrelevant to the topic wall of text --

You completely miss the point... let me dumb this down for you, maybe then you will grasp some of it:

  1. My proposition only goes for KIBA that already and currently REQUIRES two DIFFERENT keys
    1. CURRENTLY ONE of the keys is lootable (fixed spawn, not loot tables)
    2. CURRENTLY SECOND key is task reward (which you deny all the time because reasons...)
  2. I said nothing about making EVERY door requiring TWO keys. It would be preposterous.. (oh, I was supposed to keep it dumbed down, sorry) - I mean, it would be crazy
  3. I proposed, that current lootable key should be removed from it's fixed spawn 
  4. And both keys THAT ALREADT EXIST IN THE GAME should be task reward
    1. While only half the players would get KEY A and only half players would get KEY B, which would make the keys (and set as a whole) more rare, exclusive and squad-oriented. 

Is it simple enough for you to grasp? If no, then sorry, I don't really want to get on lower level than that.

It's really funny that you first deny that there are two keys, I show you screen, you don't react to it. You then deny that there is key as task reward, I prove it to you and suddenly you change your topic. Special Pleading at it's finest. Jeez...

Edited by Forien

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PIG-Mathieu

@Forien

  • So playing solo was not hard enough, you want to give half the solo players the chance to get in there, and the other half then just never get in there ??
1 hour ago, Forien said:

Game should try to be random, but also should try to maintain more or less 1:1 distribution.

  • So you are talking about a random system that isn't random ? Because something that keeps 50/50 of the player base seperate is not random, sorry.
15 minutes ago, Forien said:

I said nothing about making EVERY door requiring TWO keys. It would be preposterous.. (oh, I was supposed to keep it dumbed down, sorry) - I mean, it would be crazy

  • Well i mean, once again you just needed to read my posts to know what i was talking about.
    1 hour ago, PIG-Mathieu said:

    Well, it kinda does, since it shows that such a system would be require for EVERY rooms with high tier loot like the KIBA gun store, or some rooms in shoreline f.e, making this system quite time consuming to implement with MANY keys.

     

15 minutes ago, Forien said:

Is it simple enough for you to grasp? If no, then sorry, I don't really want to get on lower level than that.

Are you being mean ? Why ? Do you feel the need to attack to prove a point ?

Edited by PIG-Mathieu

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Violetta

The devs have stated that hatchet runs are a viable tactic. Level up your strength and move quickly to those spots, watch for the exits if you can't get there. Hatchlings can't put your RSASS's and Fort Armors into their Gamma.

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KugelFanger
3 hours ago, PIG-Mathieu said:

Isn't the kiba key in the loot tables right now ? Yes it is

 

 

Yes the A KIBA key is in the loot-table, that is not the whole story, Let me explain: You have 2 Kiba key's one for opening the outside door, and one for opening the inside frame door. 1 you are getting from the tasks (and there is no way to get this key from the loot table) the other-one has both a fixed spawn and spawns inside scav jackets and such.

Long story short, you need 2 keys to get inside of the kiba gun store.

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PIG-Mathieu
11 minutes ago, KugelFanger said:

Yes the A KIBA key is in the loot-table, that is not the whole story, Let me explain: You have 2 Kiba key's one for opening the outside door, and one for opening the inside frame door. 1 you are getting from the tasks (and there is no way to get this key from the loot table) the other-one has both a fixed spawn and spawns inside scav jackets and such.

Long story short, you need 2 keys to get inside of the kiba gun store.

One of my point was that in the futur, there's gonna be 2 entrance -> 4 doors -> 4 keys with such a system which is a lot. But thanks for clearing it out i didn't know that the key was a quest reward, i'm making good progress in my quests ^^:

image.thumb.png.11db3dba52f348b8d2ff732d7043ac46.png

But my point stays the same tho, it's not a strong and efficient system and i don't think it will work nor be implemented.

 

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GLaD0S

What if there was a keycard and or code number you'd need to know upon entering the kiba gun store and within 15 seconds the alarm goes off and all the valuable weapons get locked under glass? I feel like that'd be pretty efficient instead of having two keys.

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Cobearzz

KIBA key is fine where it stands. I enjoy the fact KIBA 2 can only be obtained through quest. KIBA 1 can be found in the location in the garage or off dead scavs. (Where I found mine was backpack factory at night.)

 

However, KIBA store just sucks. 20 Runs, 3 guns on the wall max. 5 times MPX on weapon rack and only MPX. Its nerfed to hell.

 

So basically, don't pay 10m roubles for KIBA key.

Edited by Cobearzz

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CapitanChronic

So would you say that solo players should be disadvantaged? Everyone should have the same opportunity to get there whether they are grouped or not 

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TylerJTerror
On 5/22/2018 at 5:39 PM, CapitanChronic said:

So would you say that solo players should be disadvantaged? Everyone should have the same opportunity to get there whether they are grouped or not 

Actually yes. Solo players Will be at a disadvantage. Nikita himself said the game will be easier with friends. The option to play solo is there but it's much harder. If your a solo play your going to have a rough time. 

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deathopz

Shoreline resort is better than kiba store imo and you dont need a key to find guns I find dvl this patch in helicopter crate.

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livix_
3 minutes ago, deathopz said:

Shoreline resort is better than kiba store imo and you dont need a key to find guns I find dvl this patch in helicopter crate.

i know right shoreline is the only thing i play i can make between 200k and 400k everyrun in shoreline 

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