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Pierrow

Let's eliminate the boring bits (buying and fitting process, loading times, loading screens)

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Pierrow

Hi there,

I absolutely love Escape From Tarkov, honestly well done BattleState Games, your game has serious potential.

However, there are a few bits that really impact the fun of the game, two of them being the most important:
First, the tediousness of buying and fitting again weapons over and over again, and second the loading times, made even worse by the fact that there is absolutely nothing to do at all during loadings.
Let's discuss these issues one by one.

 

1. Tedious gear shopping and fitting

Do not get me wrong, creating a new weapon with the best possible stats, with the best possible modules (flashlight, laser, etc...) is really interesting and is indeed a good addition to the game.
I love spending some time checking out the possibilities, making a new build, starting an offline match to test that and improve it.
So yes, making new weapons is indeed cool.

What is much less interesting is to have to buy again the weapon, all of its components that you have to buy to every vendor individually, then take care of fitting them, then go sell the previous pieces that you replaced, etc...
This is such a tedious process, we also have to remember who sells what otherwise we'll end up trying to figure out why that damn piece refuses to fit this time and many other stuff that are simply fun crushing chores.
Add that to the fact that sometimes you have to refit a weapon because you just died of a stupid death, so our frustration and annoyance levels are sky high, and we are now condemned to spend the next 5-10 minutes in menus to get something that we already know and already had...
To be entirely honest I don't really mind dying in games, but in EFT I do because I know there will be some menu browsing imposed on me right after.

So how to solve that?
Well some people would advise to make stocks, like fitting a few weapons and keeping them ready and yeah that can help a bit but first my stash is very limited and second that still means there will be significant time spent in boring menus to make them and all.
The very perfect solution in my opinion would be shopping and fitting lists, that we could create and save, to later be able to buy that neat weapon setup we created in one click, hassle-free.
This way we keep the fun of weapon making, yet we don't force players to spend their time in boring menus every time they die.

This could be developed in different steps:
- First, we could have a system of shopping list only, that would buy specific items from specific vendors in one click, this would speed up the weapon rebuilding process a lot, leaving us only the fitting to do before going back to Tarkov.
- Second when the first system works correctly, we enhance it by adding the feature to fit automatically the weapons and gear.
- Lastly, we could add an option to equip everything that has been bought

The ultimate goal of this system is to be able to die and go back to raid in a matter of seconds, so we can make what EFT is meant to be: a shooting game, not a menu simulator.

 

2. Loading times and loading screen

I am a developer, so I know that loading are necessary and improving loading time can be a task technically challenging, so I'm not just going to complain that loadings are too long.
First, we can improve the waiting times during loading by 2 different ways: (1) make loadings shorter, and (2) make loadings less boring.

To make loadings shorter, several things are possible.
The first one that comes through my mind is to keep the map loaded in memory after the raid and to unload it only if the player goes for a new raid on another map.
Since unloading is quasi-instantaneous this would give a speed boost to all players going on another raid on the same map.
Perhaps some of the loading steps don't need to be sequential and can be done in parallel, with multi threading for example (e.g. loading the map while loading the loot at the same time).
I don't know the internals of your net code or anything but spending 1 minutes and 30 seconds or more on "Awaiting players" is ruining the whole thing, try to get rid of that, let's just not wait for players, we all spawn when we're done loading at our pace, I'd rather that than staring at a loading screen for a minute and a half every beginning of raid.

To make loadings less boring please give us access to some of the menus, perhaps not the inventory since that could generate bugs if we move objects during loading, but why not have access to the overview, to the skills, the map, etc...
This way we would use the loading time to wander in the menus, read descriptions of skills, think about strategies to improve our stats, etc...
I am sure it would make the time feel shorter.

 

If these two bits were solved EFT would neighbour perfection to me.

I hope there's something valuable in these suggestions.

Have a good one.

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damagecore

I dunno what you mean as far as loading goes. My computer is Lynnfield generation Intel i7-870, 16gb DDR3 1333mhz RipJaws V and I have a crap Sandisk SSD on SATA II not even SATA III, and I load the game in like 20-25 seconds. If there aren't any players available then of course it's going to stall at Awaiting Players.

And the weapon configs, maybe preconfig them and save them in the stash??? That's what I do

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Kremson

Yeah I am with damage there loading times isnt an issue . Shoreline takes the longest to load sometimes interchange but the other 3 maps usually in with 30 to 40 seconds tops

The way he acts on the weapons an modding makes me think hes a long time call of duty player just by hes description an kind of complaining about having to take the time to shop for what he wants . 

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Vodor

Having weapon sets is a good idea and something that has been brought up a lot.

However there is always a BUT involved.

The shops at the moment are not how they're intended to be later in the game, so your item that may be plentiful now may not be upon release, making your pre-set loadout useless.

Once the game is finalised they should look at loadouts, but not before.

 

As for loading times, nah, they're an expected part of our gaming lives and I'm sure we can wait a minute or two. I don't see a need to improve on something that I don't perceive as a problem.

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Pierrow

@damagecore @Kremson Yes, I also have a good computer and it loads in about 30 seconds as well, and then I spend a minute and a half in awaiting players, which makes it even more frustrating, we know our computer is done doing things, we're just waiting, therefore it could be improved.
This is even more frustrating for axe runs in which you can die in a matter of seconds, you just waited more than 2 minutes, die in a few seconds and have to go again for 2 mins+ loading, how exciting.
Of course as @Vodor says loadings are part of the gaming experience, but we are in 2018, we have SSDs, multi-core processors, efficient RAM, and powerful GPUs, with all this and a well coded programs, no game should load in a matter of minutes.
@Kremson I don't play Call of Duty, Battlefield, or Counter Strike, these games are too brainless and nervous, I like strategy and stealth, I am a long time player of DayZ for example.
Come on be honest, when you have worked all day and feel like playing some EFT, what are you looking forward to: Raiding the interchange with your team of friends, or spending ages in menus?

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smokey-phil

but i like meuns moden games dont have enough of them i need options all of them all at the same time all with a bad ui taking up most of the screen and most of all i need other people to be messing with them in game 

 

But really i do like the item handling as it is now it is almost a puzzle in and of itself and the lack of an auto sort means that if you wanna know where your stuff is you have to organise well and find the space to fit it in much like real life, take mags out of some rifles and not others, make pretty lines of meds and pain killers, and work out which bags are not even worth taking off the scav run invntory. All of that adds to the sense that everything has weight and a use and of course a size so think what you need and leave the rest neatly ordered in your stash 

 

also in the finished game going to traders will most likely mean going to a loction if i read the dev notes and interpated correctly so your quick buy list may need you to go though half a dozen raids to get it done. now i type that out tarkov shopping like that might well be fun. As it stands i dont really see the harm in quick buy lists or at least a shopping cart to muti-buy items its only a temp thing as it stands so making an ease of use change as long as its not harmful to dev time  or whatever is not a bad thing but going too far down that road means you end up with people treating it like cod and other drop in games. it could also get pretty costly if you fortfasttm like 5 times in 10 mins on factory because you dont know when to quit, but thats more of a person problem not a game problem 

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eftballistics

WTF?

Fitting and sorting parts in the inventory is half of the fun of the game. I want to go to the full screen and slowly build the parts together. I dont want one click quick shopping. The simple thing of browsing the store is a big part of the fun.

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Pierrow

@eftballistics Well, I, and most likely many others, are not menu junkies.

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Vodor
2 hours ago, Pierrow said:

Of course as @Vodor says loadings are part of the gaming experience, but we are in 2018, we have SSDs, multi-core processors, efficient RAM, and powerful GPUs, with all this and a well coded programs, no game should load in a matter of minutes.

Thing is we don't all have great computers tbh - I do, you do, probably most people who post here do giving us that impression because we love gaming we spend the money on it and take part in the community - but does the average joe have one?

https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

3.74% is the largest % of gamers who have a mid range graphics card.

38% have the minimum ram spec for tarkov, 8gb, and 36% have 12gb or more.

The average joe isn't going to know the difference in specific hardware performance when mr pc world sells him a £400 "gaming" computer when they really need a £800 one. And there will always be one of these folks in every game holding up the round start.

I don't mean to sound too much of a party pooper so to speak but I don't think loading times will ever go away. Computers get faster, games get more demanding - they essentially cancel each other out in the long run so we'll always have to wait that short time for a game of something.

 

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Pierrow

I understand the argument @Vodor however if we compare EFT to other games, of any style, it will be among the ones with the longest loading times and this is not a good thing, it should be addressed somehow.
Small reminder: We can also make loading times more enjoyable, with possibility to browse some menus like I said, right now there's really NOTHING to do but stare at the loading screen.
And for the loading times, when it's in "Awaiting players" we are not waiting for people with slower computers to load.
I have played on my old laptop that is really crappy (even still had a mechanical hard disk lol) and I loaded much slower than everybody, way after the raid started and I just spawned that was it, so: No the game doesn't need every player to have loaded to start.
I don't know what's going on behind the scenes when we are in "Awaiting for players" but that's not waiting for another player with a slow PC, that's something else (perhaps the instance of the server loading or whatever).
This too can and should be addressed.

Edited by Pierrow

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Vodor
3 minutes ago, Pierrow said:

Small reminder: We can also make loading times more enjoyable, with possibility to browse some menus like I said, right now there's really NOTHING to do but stare at the loading screen.

Yeah you could do - concept is fine however with the unity engine? I don't know. Like most I'd rather they put their focus on fixing bugs, adding more content and make it smoother to play than a 2 minute entertainment addition.

You never know, they may have one planned!

4 minutes ago, Pierrow said:

(even still had a mechanical hard disk lol)

Disgraceful, get out of my sight!

4 minutes ago, Pierrow said:

I don't know what's going on behind the scenes when we are in "Awaiting for players" but that's not waiting for another player with a slow PC, that's something else (perhaps the instance of the server loading or whatever).

Probably waiting for other players to join the instance, the moment you press ready it goes to this screen and waits. Used to be a time when we waited 5 minutes on this screen.

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AdhesiveTeflon

I don't mind the loading screen.  I just look at instagram models :).  I would love them to fix the massive performance issue with shoreline though.

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Pierrow
1 minute ago, Vodor said:

a 2 minute entertainment addition.

2 minutes multiplied by the number of raids you've been in...
If you have like me hundreds of raids, you suddenly realise that you have spent hours staring at that screen, this is considerable.
If you have an average survive time of let's say 18 minutes survival (whether you die or you extract), then your loading times accounts already for 10% of your EFT experience.
And if you absolutely hate spending your life in menus rebuying and refitting weapons that you already know, then the percentage of boring and tedious stuff just explodes.
It takes me about 5 minutes to re-buy, re-fit, and re-equip everything, so now we're in the situation where we have out of a 25 minutes gaming experience 2 minutes of loading (and this is underestimated, the raid most of the time starts at 2:10+), 5 minutes of menus to get ready (only to get back what you want, you are not discovering anything or experimenting new stuff, just re-doing what's needed to get your precious weapon, ergo it's boring as hell), to finally have your 18 minutes of real game (granted that EFT is an hardcore FPS game and not a menu simulator, and granted that you don't get killed only a few seconds in by some other player or AI that you missed)
In percentages that gives you 10% for loading and 20% for menu stuff, which is considerable! We are talking about almost a third of the experience being boring or tedious right here.
And if you die right away, then you have to do the boring bits all over again for the same potential interesting part, in-raid, which makes these percentages double (you have 2x2min for loading and 2x5min for menu stuff to get ready if you insta-die in your first raid)
This is, in my opinion, a problem for the overall game.

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AdhesiveTeflon
9 minutes ago, Pierrow said:

It takes me about 5 minutes to re-buy, re-fit, and re-equip everything, so now we're in the situation where we have out of a 25 minutes gaming experience 2 minutes of loading (and this is underestimated, the raid most of the time starts at 2:10+), 5 minutes of menus to get ready (only to get back what you want, you are not discovering anything or experimenting new stuff, just re-doing what's needed to get your precious weapon, ergo it's boring as hell), to finally have your 18 minutes of real game (granted that EFT is an hardcore FPS game and not a menu simulator, and granted that you don't get killed only a few seconds in by some other player or AI that you missed)

Sounds like you gotta stop dying....

image.png.5abf663690fea6446fce8c5af443f2df.png

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UnDeadDemon

If you mean a preset loadout that you just buy upon death instead of buying everything one by one then yes, add loadouts.

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Kivlov

Some good ideas there, I really like the idea of having a saved build that you could then click one button and just rebuy your loadout you want.

Even if this is not possible to do to make your own, maybe add some more options for traders. Even add another trader that just sells different loadout styles for different weapons. Even if they were added to the mechanic, you would think he would be the perfect person for this. At least 2 or maybe 3 different builds for each popular rifle so that we can just quick buy something set up our way. Sort of like the AK-74 for gold chains.

Though the bartering portion really bothers me, I like the 3 gold chains for the AK, but mostly all of the others should be quite a bit less than the value of the item bartered. Otherwise there is no reason wasting your time searching for barter items if you could just use something different that you can just buy.

Even adding in a different build for sale each week and we could vote for ones we liked to stay as pre set builds to buy.

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Pierrow

@AdhesiveTeflon Nice troll mate. I don't die that much, I have a pretty good survival rate actually, but when I do die... Oh boy, my teammates know they're good for hearing 5 minutes of uninterrupted ranting until I get re-geared :D

@UnDeadDemon I absolutely love the idea.

@Kivlov Yes, that is the idea, to have saved build and have one-click buy, fit, and possibly equip.

The main idea is to keep the interesting weapon customisation while getting rid of the tedious process to rebuild them every single time.

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AdhesiveTeflon
17 hours ago, Pierrow said:

@AdhesiveTeflon Nice troll mate. I don't die that much, I have a pretty good survival rate actually, but when I do die... Oh boy, my teammates know they're good for hearing 5 minutes of uninterrupted ranting until I get re-geared :D

LOL my friend knows when I die.  My neighbors probably know too.

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Eragon284th

It takes me under a minute to regear after a death. That's assuming I have no items whatsoever that I need to take out with me. Buy a gun, ammo, mags, attachments, vest, armor, helmet, meds. Doesn't take that long. You learn where the items sit in the menu and each trader saves the last thing you bought so it's simple to rebuy it. But it makes more sense to keep more than one set of gear in your inventory ready to go. If you tell me that you don't have enough space to do that, then you are clearly a hoarder. Get rid of stuff you'll never use 

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Subtech

shopping list.  no way around it. <3 had that thought for months - im totally with the threadstarter.

 

yeah dat awaiting players tho.... damn son. and what happend to the maploading ? from 20-35 secs to 55+ since 85x hit ??  dafuq oO ?!

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