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Thermal scopes should be removed.

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Plasterninja
6 minutes ago, Hamm said:

i see what you mean, but as someone who runs the "best" gear every raid i shouldnt be going against people with just mosins, that to me doesnt make for fun PVP, i want people that have matching gear to be in my raids. thats just me, i find it way more enjoyable.

Tbh I like changing kits from raid to raid, keeps me on my toes :) I also enjoy going in with just a pistol and gearing up along the way, then use that gear in raids untill I die or get bored of it :) I dont play labs however, mostly open maps :)

Edited by Plasterninja
Phone splellings

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EasyCooler

Back to the topic:

I don't think they should be removed because they break the game. I think they should be removed because they do not work realistically. I have not noticed this argument anywhere, probably because big majority of people do not use thermal cameras regularly. I only noticed this because I use one as a firefighter.

Basic example: Thermal cameras or scopes can not see through glass, but in fact reflect picture (similar effect like a mirror). Also it reflects from polished metal or other reflective surfaces.

If this was implemented in game ( I understand it is hard to do), it would make thermal scopes on maps like interchange, labs and other indoors areas completely useless because it would be too confusing. They would still be a very viable tool on open maps for spotting.

Any opinions?

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Vodor

Been using one in the last few days and they’re useful when in a squad to spot people (only on woods!) but they’re actually pretty damn difficult to land a shot.

I changed from using them on a sniper to a RSASS and could only get kills on midrange encounters, of which the other person was also shooting back.

If my squad didn’t have my back, I would be dead meat.

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Spectator6
3 hours ago, EasyCooler said:

Back to the topic:

I don't think they should be removed because they break the game. I think they should be removed because they do not work realistically. I have not noticed this argument anywhere, probably because big majority of people do not use thermal cameras regularly. I only noticed this because I use one as a firefighter.

Basic example: Thermal cameras or scopes can not see through glass, but in fact reflect picture (similar effect like a mirror). Also it reflects from polished metal or other reflective surfaces.

If this was implemented in game ( I understand it is hard to do), it would make thermal scopes on maps like interchange, labs and other indoors areas completely useless because it would be too confusing. They would still be a very viable tool on open maps for spotting.

Any opinions?

Agree 100%! Wish there was a way to sticky your response!

Demonstration video for reference

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Flux101

I've played a bunch of rounds with Skin .... he's a beast.

I gotta admit though ... I LOVE the REAP. I got hooked after completing the M1A1 + REAP quest (Test Drive Part 1). Before the wipe was announced I had 7 of them stored away. During a raid I would pop it on and off as needed (only takes up one slot in your pouch) - run that with a 45° mount with FF3 and a Vudu or Bravo for long range on a silenced HK. Some people have a problem with them ... I used them to get a bunch of the 130 m head shots for Shooter Born In Heaven.   

Yes, the refresh rate sucks,  yes they are expensive (but I had lots of cash long before the wipe announcement), yes you can't tell WHO you're shooting so situational awareness is key but it's VERY EFFECTIVE even at long range (my longest kill with it was around 250m - my longest kill with the Bravo was 471m) if you're willing to risk losing it. 

Personally I think it's well balanced during regular play (but OP in the wipe events because it's so cheap).

It's a blast to use on Interchange with a decked  HK:

 

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AdhesiveTeflon
4 hours ago, EasyCooler said:

If this was implemented in game ( I understand it is hard to do), it would make thermal scopes on maps like interchange, labs and other indoors areas completely useless because it would be too confusing. They would still be a very viable tool on open maps for spotting.

That would probably be the closest thing ANY game has ever come to having realistic FLIR spotting systems.

Javelin CLUs anybody?  Spot somebody farting across woods?

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Fisherprice1337

i think the low distance rendering grass is more OP then a Thermal Scope

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EasyCooler
3 hours ago, Spectator6 said:

Agree 100%! Wish there was a way to sticky your response!

Demonstration video for reference

Good and simple video representation for that. Thanks. I hope they will consider it

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Acene
On 4/9/2019 at 3:29 PM, Spectator6 said:

Agree 100%! Wish there was a way to sticky your response!

Demonstration video for reference

Good call. Only started about a month ago but completely agree.
- It's badly implemented.
- In it's current form adds nothing to the game.

The night time raid is fun, enjoyable. NVG is totally fine.
But thermals make absolutely no sense. It's there so.... so a high-budget/high-level player can pwn everyone from insane distances? So you can just mow down people through bushes around Dorms? I fail to see how any of the thermal scopes add any useful value to the game.

Before anyone says "you've been killed by it"... Maybe. There is no way to tell what killed you.
But I tried them and saw Youtube and stream clips. And it's just lame as hell.

Ps.: "expensive" is not really a counter point to any part of the game. You could always get the highest edition of the game, pay people to carry you, pay someone to get loot, whatever. In-game or IRL Money is never a good way to balance something.

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StoneC

What about if you could buy a thermal camo coating for your pmc character that you have to rebuy if you die. So thermal scope users can't just scan the area and move on carefree all the time.

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Phro_

I tend to agree.  They should either be removed or have their cost extremely increased.  I just don't see any real value in them being in game in their current state/price.

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AdhesiveTeflon
36 minutes ago, StoneC said:

What about if you could buy a thermal camo coating for your pmc character that you have to rebuy if you die. So thermal scope users can't just scan the area and move on carefree all the time.

The human body naturally heats up so the PMC would have to wear some sort of aluminum/heat reflective clothing like you see volcanologists wear.

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georgeadam

Tbh, I've used one this evening. Cost 40k more than my normal scope, and it's just helped me spot and wipe a 4 man solo. They're just too strong for the price they are currently. They're less than a gen 4 high mobility... (current flea market prices).

... Also I felt super scummy for murdering that squad in such a disgusting manner. Apologies to them fellas. 

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spacegg

I've been running thermals for the last month or so every raid and I don't think they are OP. The moment you find yourself in CQB this thermal does nothing for you and you are in big disadvantage. Also zeroing those scopes is a pain as you can;t see where the shots are landing. Finally the range is not great, 300m max so you can get sniped without being aware there is a pcm aiming at you. My solution is to carry a spear dot when i have to clear buildings. Also they are expensive, I've spent something like 3-4M just for the thermals so far. 

If you find yourself fighting a thermal pmc just try to close the distance or run outside their range and reset the raid.

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Porpoise_CZ

At least Shoreline is in state of "thermal meta" now. I do not like how common thermal optics has become. Thermals are powerful assets when used properly and have their pros and cons.  The problem is, they work best while playing passively, overlooking wide area of the map and shooting everything. Tarkov has slow/passive playstyle, but this is turning some matches into serious campfest.

Thermals should be  rare items IMO, not common part of group equipment.   

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georgeadam
On 1/10/2020 at 9:33 AM, spacegg said:

If you find yourself fighting a thermal pmc just try to close the distance or run outside their range and reset the raid.

The problems are:
-The point you've realised you're against someone with a thermal, you or some of your team are already dead.
-The majority of the time, you're not taking a fight over the distance a thermal can detect. 
-Backup mounts exist for short range so that's not an issue at all. 
-The flir and reapir are cheap as anything. Whilst I understand the dev's approach to pricing, these things should be super rare. Minimum of a rare trade at least. 
- It's also super simple to have one person just scan entire areas with a thermal and call out locations to others (as this game is aimed at squad play).

Might be just this wipe, but I don't think I've seen quite so many people using thermals. Whilst liking the idea of thermals, the penalty/cost/availability for them feels wrong atm. Which unfortunately means my tarkov'ing might be over till the next wipe, will see how the next week goes. 
 

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DukeLander

Wrong guys, wrong...

Super rare items are very bad. Why? because casual players are gonna suffer even more in the game, while they have no 12+ hours per day to play like f%#n no life streamers to obtain skills and rare items in game.

BSG does not have to make more difficult game for casuals, it is already hard enough.

But this is modern combat game, so we need thermals. And it is a great anti camp counter measure device.

Solution is very simple: put the price of thermals like weaver reflex sight for example. Ca 15k rubbels and everyone can buy them.

I that case at least everybody has a similar chances and very good anti camp weapon.

My 5c....

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Astalonte1985
On 7/9/2018 at 2:29 PM, skin said:

Just as the title implies Thermal scopes have no place in this game. Very much like Arma, thermal scopes and gear are absurdly over powered and make the games terrain cover worthless.  I can see players that, with a standard scope alone,  would be nigh on invisible.  A game breaking advantage in my humble opinion and I hope they are removed.

But this game is very unfair and I hope it s like that. It does not need to get easy. THermal are end game and I hope continue being so

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Spectator6

It might be interesting for BSG to consider implementing some realistic counters to Thermals. 

I'm thinking specifically of something like a jacket/shroud/drape that helps break-up a person's heat signature. Supposedly wool does this well, but I don't have any direct knowledge in the matter. 

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Maki_Nishikino
3 hours ago, DukeLander said:

Super rare items are very bad. Why? because casual players are gonna suffer even more in the game, while they have no 12+ hours per day to play like f%#n no life streamers to obtain skills and rare items in game.

Just why is it always the "you have no life" ad hominem? While I agree that EFT does have issues I don't feel it should be made easier for anyone just because one finds their time is of utter value. The game isn't being designed around a persons life schedule.

Since I have joined one of the two EFT Discord's a bit over a year ago I am having much more luck when it comes to coming out a raid loaded, a single good raid with a group is all I need.

Edited by Maki_Nishikino

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GrimmCro

I have one sitting in my stash, I'm yet to run an online raid with it.  From what I've tested offline, it's useful but cumbersome, not to mention pricey.  If people can afford it, let them run it.  I'm good either way.

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EmbarIsBetter

Maybe have weather effect thermals? I've yet to run into a real issue against them though. I feel most people are afraid to run them even though they are extremely good on most maps.

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Got_Epsteined

Thermals are too cheap with how easily we can make money this wipe. I haven't had a single raid without running into someone else using a thermal. The balance is fucked this wipe.

I've lost more thermals than I can remember and it doesn't even bother me. That's a problem. They either need to be removed or have the price tag increased.

Edited by Got_Epsteined

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LaxeGotAxe

Without a single doubt they should. there is no reasonable example why such gameplay should stay in game.  sure i only play this game for two months but the abundance of thermal sight parties in reserve has completely ruined the fun.

Endgame where everyone is spazzing 360 degrees with ADS in/out where all you have to do is increase your actions per second to the max possible that you can to never be ambushed by anyone is ridiculous.

And there is no real loss when you run 4 man party and your friend will just loot your gear if you somehow manage to die.

Simply lame addition to game. especially since it has no viable counter plays and allows you to completely purge everything with little to no stress that all other ways of playing this game brings on you.

----

At least put durability on them where if you land a nade or take any type of bullet to the helmet that T-7 gets permanently destroyed. Batteries will not solve anything.

---

Feels like War Thunder again, where they simply added things like Markers through terrain that show enemies to negate the advantage of wallhackers instead of addressing the issue. so maybe these Devs see thermals also as a way to combat wallhackers who use cheats. since if you die in a weird bullshit way you can always excuse it as enemy having T-7. so you dont need to implement post game server replies and spend resources on player complains.

Edited by LaxeGotAxe

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THE_BANDIT

tbh making advanced equipment like this only available as loot would make it more expensive on the flea market while also making it so even a lvl1 player can get lucky and just find one, there would be obvious advantages to using it but also devastating to lose.   

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