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Rumkin

Please BSG, don't change the current Anti-Cheat System

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Rumkin

The Post im refering to: 

https://www.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/92m168/im_scared_ac_is_being_invasive/

I've seen a lot posts like this in the past couple weeks and it starts to annoy me. Please don't listen to people like this, who are probably cheaters themself and think the Anti-Cheat System is too "invasive". There is no point in naming your files "TarkovESP" or having a VB Project with EFT game file paths if you are not cheating. 

If you don't plan to cheat  in this game and have no fishy programs installed which interfer with the game then you won't get banned as simple as that. People crying about the current Anti-Cheat System are either cheating or plan to do so, therefor their meaning should be ignored. 

Edited by Rumkin
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smokey-phil

Yeah i'm not for invasion of privacy but if you call your files tarkov esp and use a known compiler format while playing a competitive game that states very clearly no cheating you shouldn't be surprised if you catch a ban off it either way if the story the guys quotes of "a forum for hacking" was true the guy who it happened to should know that taking it to court with proof (he would have documented it if he was legit) and showing you where banned for an empty vb file would be a slam dunk bsg stated if you wanna take it to court they are willing they know the level of proof they need for it so why ban unless you have that. 

 

The whole thing stinks of "i'm not going to cheat but i want the option to do so left open for reasons i'm not going to really tell you."

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admiraladam7530

And there goes people doing it again, handing over their privacy rights in order to feel more secure, it is completely unnecessary for the anti cheat to scan my computers history in order to pic up keywords and ban me because for instance i really like to cheat in Hearts of Iron 4 and give myself major advantages over the AI (im using trainers) and if the tarkov anti cheats finds that injector with its DLL and bans me for it thats a load of bullshit, i have no problem for it scanning ACTIVE programs while im playing tarkov, but i swear to god if people like you keep the support for Anti cheats to actively scan your PC for "keywords" not even actual evidence is insanely infuriating 

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Rumkin
vor 45 Minuten schrieb admiraladam7530:

if the tarkov anti cheats finds that injector with its DLL and bans me for it thats a load of bullshit,

Source on this? Probably none. No one knows how the Anti-Cheat actually works and I'm pretty sure they manually check every ban since the ban list doesn't seem very long this shouldn't be a problem for them. Also you're not giving up any privacy if an automatic process scans your PC for Keywords

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smokey-phil
1 hour ago, Rumkin said:

Source on this? Probably none. No one knows how the Anti-Cheat actually works and I'm pretty sure they manually check every ban since the ban list doesn't seem very long this shouldn't be a problem for them. Also you're not giving up any privacy if an automatic process scans your PC for Keywords

Its debatable that your not giving up privacy by having an expert system scan your pc for certain terms it depends almost entirely on the person or persons who programmed the system that is going though your stuff, That being said it is one of the better options for something like this. 

I'm in two minds about the cheating on other games argument here as you can do whatever you like on your own pc on your own time however if the programs you use have a possible hacking or cheating application you may not want to run them on the same system as the one you play competitive online games with its just asking for problems. Its close to the "i do technical software development and need these tools to do my work" argument and once more the same reply comes up don't do that on a pc you want to use for online gaming your perfectly entitled to have and use those tools however if you also agreed a terms of service when installing the game that will cover the possible reactions to having those kind of programs either installed or hooked into active memory.

i don't know if you really want to keep pushing the envelope on this one maybe put all the possible bad programs on a usb hard drive and keep it unplugged while your playing eft (assuming eft does not scan historical processes in which case it does run them on another system entirely but as it stands we just don't know how the anti cheat system works aside from the staffs word that peoples bans are hand checked before being issued)

Its true that you can't be arrested for just thinking about committing a crime but take a set of lock picks or a crowbar for a walk in a car park openly and see how long you get to do that for :P as thats about the same as having cheat engine running in my eyes

You might not be doing something bad (right this second) but people sure as hell ain't gonna be happy about you having the ability to do so at will and if you want to do these things its on you to make sure you are not breaking rules on software you want to use 

i have to also point out that it may break the End user licence to use programs like trainers on games even in single player as in doing so you modified the game files without express permission from the owner to do so. However i would put using trainers on the same level as mod making for games like rimworld, Thats just me however plenty of company's have pitched fits about mod making community's and made their games very mod unfriendly or even gone to the point of court action over the use of assets and IP's 

 

TLDR: use cheat engine or any other "hacking software" at your own risk while playing an online game with anti cheat protection.  

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Enemy-Shark
vor 18 Stunden schrieb Rumkin:

The Post im refering to: 

https://www.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/92m168/im_scared_ac_is_being_invasive/

I've seen a lot posts like this in the past couple weeks and it starts to annoy me. Please don't listen to people like this, who are probably cheaters themself and think the Anti-Cheat System is too "invasive". There is no point in naming your files "TarkovESP" or having a VB Project with EFT game file paths if you are not cheating. 

If you don't plan to cheat  in this game and have no fishy programs installed which interfer with the game then you won't get banned as simple as that. People crying about the current Anti-Cheat System are either cheating or plan to do so, therefor their meaning should be ignored. 

A program could be '' fishy ''  for EFT but at the same time allowed for an other game... so if you have one of this and use it for a other game and not for EFT and get punished by this System. Is it for real a good System? 
For example I read a on reddit that a lot of people use a program for Rocket League that is allowed for that game but it isn't allowed for EFT. So they use it only for Rocket League and get bans for that... is it right ban peoble cause they play other games ? XD  I can also install ''Cheat Engien '' or an other program to Cheat in Singelplayer Games for ''FUN'' or expermenting with the limits of the Game and BSG will ban me for a fishy progam which I never used for EFT... That is kinda wrong or ?
And then why the hell they have to ''scan'' my PC ? Other Games don't need that and their systems work fine...
I guess they just want to see my nudes or my naked feet... Kappa JK XD

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Eragon284th
7 minutes ago, Enemy-Shark said:

A program could be '' fishy ''  for EFT but at the same time allowed for an other game... so if you have one of this and use it for a other game and not for EFT and get punished by this System. Is it for real a good System? 
For example I read a on reddit that a lot of people use a program for Rocket League that is allowed for that game but it isn't allowed for EFT. So they use it only for Rocket League and get bans for that... is it right ban peoble cause they play other games ? XD  I can also install ''Cheat Engien '' or an other program to Cheat in Singelplayer Games for ''FUN'' or expermenting with the limits of the Game and BSG will ban me for a fishy progam which I never used for EFT... That is kinda wrong or ?
And then why the hell they have to ''scan'' my PC ? Other Games don't need that and their systems work fine...
I guess they just want to see my nudes or my naked feet... Kappa JK XD

No one got banned for software allowed in one game but banned in eft. The most common tactic for people who get found cheating is to try to appeal it by saying it was an error. Oh it was this program running in the background that everyone uses, don't look at the screen grabs covered in chams, wire boxes, and item esp

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Enemy-Shark
vor 2 Minuten schrieb Eragon284th:

No one got banned for software allowed in one game but banned in eft. The most common tactic for people who get found cheating is to try to appeal it by saying it was an error. Oh it was this program running in the background that everyone uses, don't look at the screen grabs covered in chams, wire boxes, and item esp

Okay, I hope it is like you said ^^ 



BSG wanna see some feet just ask us no need to scan our PC :3

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Eragon284th
Just now, Enemy-Shark said:

Okay, I hope it is like you said ^^ 



BSG wanna see some feet just ask us no need to scan our PC :3

The only thing they ban for is the active use of cheats, they don't just ban people immediately, they monitor the person's activity and collect info on how the cheat works and how effective it is before they take action. The program reshade is even allowed to be used in tarkov even though it's banned in many other games because it can allow you to change time of day, remove particle effects, remove all shadows, make players glow bright red, etc etc etc. All things that give people an unfair advantage

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MrSolo

So you wouldn't mind if I open all your mail and read it.  And open all your Emails and read them. You wouldn't mind if I look through your cellphone and check out all your messages and pictures.  You wouldn't mind if I came into your home and looked through all your drawers and stuff.

I mean, if you object to that then you MUST be a bad guy with something to hide, in which case your opinion should be ignored.

 

See how ridiculous that argument is?  I get what you are trying to say, but that argument is beyond childish.

 

As Ben Franklin said  "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

 

More on topic: They need to upgrade the Anti-Cheat because it isn't stopping any of the major hacks.  The main 2 hacks for this game(which I won't name due to forum rules) are currently being updated to once again beat the anti-cheat system in EFT.  In a matter of days EFT will be full of hackers again.  They need to upgrade to a better anti-cheat, desperately, not sit on their hands and accept 'good enough'.

Edited by MrSolo

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Rumkin
vor 6 Stunden schrieb MrSolo:

So you wouldn't mind if I open all your mail and read it.  And open all your Emails and read them. You wouldn't mind if I look through your cellphone and check out all your messages and pictures.  You wouldn't mind if I came into your home and looked through all your drawers and stuff.

I mean, if you object to that then you MUST be a bad guy with something to hide, in which case your opinion should be ignored.

 

See how ridiculous that argument is?  I get what you are trying to say, but that argument is beyond childish.

So you are saying that there's no difference between someone reading your personal messages and an automatic process scanning for specific keywords and upon finding something, monitoring the process. Maybe your argument is a bit childish?

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smokey-phil
2 hours ago, Rumkin said:

So you are saying that there's no difference between someone reading your personal messages and an automatic process scanning for specific keywords and upon finding something, monitoring the process. Maybe your argument is a bit childish?

Its in the same kinda vein of ideas but i would say the key difference where is that you would have to agree to it in order to use some software if you didn't want that to happen you just don't use the software and revoke the user agreement on your end (if you already use it). There are no rights guaranteeing that you must have access to software without dealing with the terms of service.

 

Now i'll admit thats it is not my first idea of what should be done but if a company wants you to jump though that hoop to use the software they provide your options are "yes sir no sir three bags full sir" or "no thank you i don't want to buy this" no one forces you to use the software (though i sometimes feel tarkov is kinda like an abusive relationship that a lot of people including myself just can't walk away from for weird reason that have more to do with you wanting to be punished than anything :P) And as far as i am aware using client data to check those clients are not using "hacks" or in some other way interfering with normal operations of the software in not illegal or even really considered bad form as long as everyone knows whats going on and agrees to it upfront. 

 

That being said while it may be legal to do so actually using client data in ways that are by the letter of the law legal but that some people consider wrong or an invasion of privacy or both is a just great way to get your company vilified in the community's that actually care deeply about this kinda thing and bad press is bad press whichever way you cut it. 

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CADhammer

I think the whole thing is a ridiculous amount of speculation, though it's probably all interesting to BSG's security department.

After reading most of that thread, I coudn't stop myself from thinking that everyone was arguing over the word of a guy who supposedly got banned for supposedly having a vb file with a specific name that supposedly was empty....

I mean the conversation is probably still worth having, but I'd like to think if it really did happen that rather than intruding on BSG's anticheat poilicy, I'd hope Battlestate's customer service should be able to reinstate your account after a brief appeal... I dunno, I guess it is a tough one, but it still feels like having a conversation about what if aliens exist in my opinion.

Edited by CADhammer
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Rumkin
vor 58 Minuten schrieb CADhammer:

After reading most of that thread, I coudn't stop myself from thinking that everyone was arguing over the word of a guy who supposedly got banned for supposedly having a vb file with a specific name that supposedly was empty....

The thing is that no one knows how the AC works. My point was that even if it scans for something like .vb files or specific keywords i wouldn't mind.
Also i don't believe the guy got banned for something like an empty project which has Tarkov in the name, this just sounds like a bad excuse for someone who got caught cheating.

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dunkunid
1 hour ago, Rumkin said:

The thing is that no one knows how the AC works. 

There is a reason for it huh?

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Vodor

ACs have been scanning systems for years, as long as they abide by their privacy policy there is no cause for alarm.

Surely?

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AdhesiveTeflon
On 7/28/2018 at 7:12 PM, Rumkin said:

 No one knows how the Anti-Cheat actually works 

if* :P 

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Flavalicious

Lol people worried about internet privacy in 2018?   Hope your not running any social media pages.... lol

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Zybane
On 7/28/2018 at 4:23 PM, admiraladam7530 said:

And there goes people doing it again, handing over their privacy rights in order to feel more secure, it is completely unnecessary for the anti cheat to scan my computers history in order to pic up keywords and ban me because for instance i really like to cheat in Hearts of Iron 4 and give myself major advantages over the AI (im using trainers) and if the tarkov anti cheats finds that injector with its DLL and bans me for it thats a load of bullshit, i have no problem for it scanning ACTIVE programs while im playing tarkov, but i swear to god if people like you keep the support for Anti cheats to actively scan your PC for "keywords" not even actual evidence is insanely infuriating 

Nope. Cheating in other games means most likely cheating in EFT. Hate cheaters; ban. 

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oldirty

I dont believe a single word in that reddit post.

I cant name things here, but certain cheat developers actually make propaganda against anti cheat systems to cause unrest in the community. They have a huge interest in making the situation look way worse than it actually is.

They want every possible cheater to know "hey their AC is bad, get our cheat and rock(even if it isnt bad, they just need to sell)" or they want to put fear into the legit players by saying their AC is dangerous in "some" way. Privacy/false ban that usually is.

Edited by oldirty

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georgeadam

I'd argue that 'Security dev' isn't very good at their work. 

Also, you cant make overall policies without there being some sort of outlying case where an individual is affected differently.

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Elder_Drake

I agree that BSG should not change a thing, nor speak or reply about what they are doing, because it is working and the bad guys are losing more often than winning. I used to see hackers a lot more frequently than I do now and even now I can chalk up almost every odd encounter up to desync. That said I am troubled by the fact that the newer generation(s) seem to be more accepting of giving up their privacy rights and accepting it as the norm. If you went back to my younger years and said a game was scanning your pc for keywords it would have made the news and caused a stir. Times move forward though and it is a different and evolving world so I get that antiquated ideas need to evolve with them. One thing I am certain of is that the steps BSG is taking are becoming more effective, they make the game a better environment to play within, and it is keeping the bad apples second guessing as to if they should cheat or not for fear of losing their account. Sounds like a win-win-win situation to me.

So keep up the good work BSG because whatever you are doing is making a difference. It will never be a 100% hacker free environment, but that is not a realistic goal as you play the cat and mouse game with these clowns. The important thing is do we as players feel plagued by cheaters and are your ac measures affecting our gameplay or personal lives somehow, my .02 says no to both so keep on keeping on.

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smokey-phil
On 7/31/2018 at 4:07 AM, oldirty said:

I dont believe a single word in that reddit post.

I cant name things here, but certain cheat developers actually make propaganda against anti cheat systems to cause unrest in the community. They have a huge interest in making the situation look way worse than it actually is.

They want every possible cheater to know "hey their AC is bad, get our cheat and rock(even if it isnt bad, they just need to sell)" or they want to put fear into the legit players by saying their AC is dangerous in "some" way. Privacy/false ban that usually is.

This is actually quite likely to happen there is such a thing a black PR and some of that comes pretty close to social engineering which is also something i would assume people running a hacking tools shop would know about :P   

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