Fun and Realism, duality or dichotomy?

[DishonestQuill]

So when people are debating/discussing a lot of features/ planned features in this game, there generally comes a point when people start using either fun or realism as a defense of their argument. A lot of these conversations have fairly good points on both sides, so I wonder if instead of pushing one or the other we could go for melding them.

Some very simple instances: You've just had to hide in a bathroom to refill your mags after a fight and can hear more players moving around outside. You pop out and wreck them, which is fun through realism, yes?

Or: You're injured, have 200k loot/ whatever quest item in your bag, no ammo and you've just been driven up to the Resort roof by a very well kitted squad. You jump off the roof and manage to escape and extract with your Mcguffin as a result. Also fun/rewarding yes, if not very realistic?

The generic arguments go something like this:

Fun = Healthy player base, ease of use, soften the learning curve, generally amusing gameplay

Realism = tension, difficulty, pricing, length of the game's life post release

 

Edited July 31, 2018 by DishonestQuill

[smokey-phil]

I came for the realism if i wanted fun i would go play fortnight or any other "fun" arcadey shoot-up-em. i wanted ammo that matchs up with real world ballistic information bullet drop, defections, duds and the jams and failures to feed all inherent with the use and maintenance of a firearm. To me anything that is not as close to its real life counter part is a wasted opportunity for tarkov.

 

I find balance a weird concept within eft and the whole realistic millsim gaming thing as in theory the game is made as close to real life as possible and that in and of itself provides the balancing although guess what the real world is unfair and sometimes one side has things like the us marines and a nato task force and the other has poorly made explosive devices that a high school shop teacher would cry at the worksmanship on it and half a dozen kyber pass ak-like "rifles" with rifling consisting of something someone did by hand without a vice or machine tooling. With only the uncaring god of random chance deciding on which side you fall on for this "fair fight"

 

i don't want ammo changing its values unless they found a way to make it act closer to its real life counterpart. Allow popularity and the scarcity that comes with it when applied to the kind of economic situation that the game attempts to emulate to dictate the flow of valuable items rather than trying to put enough of this tier item in this is box so as to make people stop complaining they can't find a 60 round mag.

I also saw tarkov as a (if not THE) spiritual successor to the stalker games and to a much greater extent the mod community that built up around them which for the most part dove headfirst into making those games as close to real life in the weapon handling and modding some even tried to implement a magazine system with having to load bullets (of which there could be different types of ammo for each cailber) all tied together with a pretty deep storytelling system that makes you go and dig half lost journals and old lab documents out of god knows where if you actually want to know what went on (this was much more a mod thing than something the base games ever really got into they where kinda basic go here kill this type things for the most part) 

[sYs]

^

what this  guy said

[bigbacon]

#1 you can't compare fun vs realism in this way.

#2 FUN does not equal not real.

#3 you need the game to be real but not so damn real that it isn't going to be fun. People don't want to "play" frustration simulator 1.0

#4 the game won't survive without a mix of real vs non-real. Although niche games can survive, I am pretty sure the devs would like to make money.

To me the game is in a real good real vs not-real state right now. Can things get tweaked, sure, but some of the realism ideas are ludicrous. I want to enjoy playing games. 

Overall if it isn't fun, people won't play it and it won't survive if you limit your player base so much. You need to loosen the reigns on realism but don't go overboard in either direction. It needs to be balanced.

 

Edited July 31, 2018 by bigbacon

[KhandE]

Well one big problem is that a vast majority of people on these forums that get suggestions taken seriously by the devs don't know anything about "realism" from their own assholes. 

So a truly realistic game probably won't be the end result anyway.