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Scav every 10 minutes is a very bad idea. It floods the game with too much cash ,and heavens forbid, more AK-74Ns


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eftballistics

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Scav every 10 minutes is a very bad idea. This affects the game in many ways.

Here is the obvious one:
 

  • It offers a free loot shopping tour all the time. Need to grab some quest items? Medical supplies? Loot corpses others left over after a large battle? Play scav, and by the time you are finished sorting the loot, you can play again.

Have you spotted the less obvious problem? It is the medical supplies. Or: The economy. Here is how scav mode damages the economy:
 

  • There is a pharmacy on the second floor of interchange, it is not locked and has one medical bag and many loose medical items. If a player can get there every 10 minutes without any opposition, or the risk of losing gear, then the need of having to buy medical items or at least fight over them is removed. This will inflate the value of medical items because it is too easy to acquire medical items.
  • The next problem is the AK-74N. Every imaginable possible  problem with economics  leads back to this weapon in this game. If you spawn as a scav and simply walk to the exit then you carry ~ 20-25k worth of loot with you. If you pick up a few items on the way to the exit, you get 40-60k. This means a free AK-74N every 10 minutes. Which makes it the standard weapon everyone can afford all the time. The most versatile weapon in the game, free for everyone. This removes all pistols, smgs, shotguns from the game. No one will field an MP5 or MPX when there is AK-74N everywhere. This has been a problem for the last year, when the AK-74N was so cheap that it dominated the game. Now they finally increased rifle cost but then they sabotage that with a free cash mode every 10 minutes.

 

Scav mode needs to reset to at least 30 to 60 minutes so it is a rare thing you can use if you are really desperate for cash. And it would make the scav mode more of an event where you have to pay attention to get out. If you can scav every 10 to 20 minutes, then there is no loss or risk when playing it. And assault rifles need to cost more, at least 70k for an AK-74.

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Scav every 10 minutes is a very bad idea. This affects the game in many ways. Here is the obvious one:   It offers a free loot shopping tour all the time. Need to grab some quest items? Me

It literally doesn't matter if its 10 minutes or 20. Until hatchlings become extinct, there is virtually no difference. I can run to kiba and then hit up the medical place with virtually no resistance

Seriously 30 to 60 min cool down for scav runs ? I swear everytime I see you post something its always ridiculous just like this is to the point i really dont even open your threads cause the ideas an

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SmellyFart

I don't know if you watched the podcast but, they did it just to test and see what happens. It is not a final state, they are just trying stuff. Actually, Nikita changed it in the middle of discussion saying "duck it, why not try?".

 

So changes will happen, stupid or clever, they will happen. No need to worry, they are just trying stuff. Scav timer will not stay like this for sure..

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It literally doesn't matter if its 10 minutes or 20. Until hatchlings become extinct, there is virtually no difference. I can run to kiba and then hit up the medical place with virtually no resistance just as well as I can on a scav, except on a scav I spawn ~20 minutes late and all of it is already looted.

The only thing this buff does it give new players a chance to have gear for every raid with their PMC. This has zero effect on the actual gameplay bracket (20-40). 

Edited by Nessevi
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Jesus, relax man. I think it's a great thing. Playing against scavs who are human is 10 times funnier than playing against AI. So please before you come in here with your brain/maths/economic/democratic/non-fun ideas please think of the fun factor before. :) The fun died with 0.7 and now it's back! 10min scav mode is a blessing since the barter grinding is ducking terrible.

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crikeym8

Scav players are apart of the game IMO.

I think the real problem would be the spawn chance of weapons, and also the price of everything in traders - for example some things are too cheap compared to pistols i.e. P226r is 12000? rouble or there about, AKS-74u is the short rifle costing about 28000 rouble.

I feel that either pistols all need to be cheaper, or rifles more expensive. what ever it takes to make pistols relevant in later life of raids. right now it feels like after you have passed a certain point in progression you completely stop using pistols UNLESS you are doing suicide runs to get to stupid difficult quests (like my 10 pistol runs trying to pass the unknown key/hut quest and not die lol).

I don;t know if pistols will ever be apart of a common setup apart from those suicide runs I do... i love/hate those survive + exit quests...

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bigbacon

Pistols only become relevent when rifles are impossible to come by but its a catch 22 because if you do t have those rifles and cant get them eaiky, even the semi junk ones, you will never win against the few who do.

Sometimes.of.guns.have to.be availible and scavs make.that possible.

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nah you are a masochist and like pain.

 

Back to your dungeon of pain with you.

 

but seriously, 10 minute scav run delay is a good thing and makes the game better. More loot and weapons in play can only be a good thing. The worst things about this game is hatchlings who vacuum up all the good loot and risk nothing, scavs are totally under-powered and bullet fodder now, even player scavs unless they are rocking hacks like ESP.

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8 hours ago, eftballistics said:

Scav mode needs to reset to at least 30 to 60 minutes so it is a rare thing you can use if you are really desperate for cash. And it would make the scav mode more of an event where you have to pay attention to get out. If you can scav every 10 to 20 minutes, then there is no loss or risk when playing it. And assault rifles need to cost more, at least 70k for an AK-74.

Seriously 30 to 60 min cool down for scav runs ? I swear everytime I see you post something its always ridiculous just like this is to the point i really dont even open your threads cause the ideas an suggestions you make are some of the most far fetched that will never happen . How about you go to school learn how to make your own video game with all your ideas cause it will literally be the most boring game ever made . 

The scav time reduced is a good thing cause it sucked having to wait 20 minutes especially for the fact that not everyone can play 6 to 12 hours a day like most . Maybe some just like to take a day an just do scav runs to find quest items etc for a few hours . If its 20 minute cool downs players will only be able to do like one or two runs considering thats nearly 3 hours of in game time . And here you talk about hour long cool downs . I mean you are obviously either some young one or either retired an have no life at all either way stop bitching at things that are clearly a good thing for the player base . 

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blokkfighter

The 10 min timer is just great. It gives lowlevel player the chance to grind some money for their pmc runs.

Please think first by ur next thread, everytime i see you post something i can smell how you like to duck us with your "lets have even less fun in a videogame" ideas...

 

I dont know but it seem you like it to have no fun in a game...

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7 hours ago, bjuckan said:

Jesus, relax man. 

 

2 hours ago, 2legs said:

nah you are a masochist and like pain.

 

Back to your dungeon of pain with you.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Kremson said:

Seriously 30 to 60 min cool down for scav runs ? I swear everytime I see you post something its always ridiculous just like this is to the point i really dont even open your threads cause the ideas an suggestions you make are some of the most far fetched that will never happen . How about you go to school learn how to make your own video game with all your ideas cause it will literally be the most boring game ever made . 

The scav time reduced is a good thing cause it sucked having to wait 20 minutes especially for the fact that not everyone can play 6 to 12 hours a day like most . Maybe some just like to take a day an just do scav runs to find quest items etc for a few hours . If its 20 minute cool downs players will only be able to do like one or two runs considering thats nearly 3 hours of in game time . And here you talk about hour long cool downs . I mean you are obviously either some young one or either retired an have no life at all either way stop bitching at things that are clearly a good thing for the player base . 

Am I being toxic or OP is ELITIST?

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I agree with @eftballistics yet on another topic.

Personally : Scavs need rework.  At this point there is nothing to return to for experienced players. Most people once they gear up don't go into to scav mode mainly cause your scav player doesn't advance. I strongly believe scav player should be 1 in an hour and so that timer for next scav start rolling right when you enter the raid not when you finish it. This way people would be more interested in staying in a raid as a scav longer.

 

1-2 months into the patch and woula - you don't see that many scav players no more. 

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eftballistics
vor 3 Stunden schrieb Kremson:

Seriously 30 to 60 min cool down for scav runs ? I swear everytime I see you post something its always ridiculous just like this is to the point i really dont even open your threads cause the ideas an suggestions you make are some of the most far fetched that will never happen . How about you go to school learn how to make your own video game with all your ideas cause it will literally be the most boring game ever made . 

The scav time reduced is a good thing cause it sucked having to wait 20 minutes especially for the fact that not everyone can play 6 to 12 hours a day like most . Maybe some just like to take a day an just do scav runs to find quest items etc for a few hours . If its 20 minute cool downs players will only be able to do like one or two runs considering thats nearly 3 hours of in game time . And here you talk about hour long cool downs . I mean you are obviously either some young one or either retired an have no life at all either way stop bitching at things that are clearly a good thing for the player base . 

"I have 9 wives, 37 children and I only have 5 microseconds per day to play. If I dont get an M4 with a drum mag and a suppressor then the game is not working."

 

vor 43 Minuten schrieb sYs:

I agree with @eftballistics yet on another topic.

Personally : Scavs need rework.  At this point there is nothing to return to for experienced players. Most people once they gear up don't go into to scav mode mainly cause your scav player doesn't advance. I strongly believe scav player should be 1 in an hour and so that timer for next scav start rolling right when you enter the raid not when you finish it. This way people would be more interested in staying in a raid as a scav longer.

 

1-2 months into the patch and woula - you don't see that many scav players no more. 

It comes all down to players not valuing scav mode anymore, because it could be played 3 times per hour (and now 6 times per hour). Younger players don't see the problem with this free loot slot machine yet because they only play this for the rush of unlocks and collecting gear. That the core of the game is damaged by this, which is the gun fights and complex decision making, is something they don't consider

vor 2 Stunden schrieb blokkfighter:

The 10 min timer is just great. It gives lowlevel player the chance to grind some money for their pmc runs.

Please think first by ur next thread, everytime i see you post something i can smell how you like to duck us with your "lets have even less fun in a videogame" ideas...

 

I dont know but it seem you like it to have no fun in a game...

Here is the thing, if you are a "low level" or "bad" or "inexperienced" player, then your gear experience has to suck. This is a hardcore game that should reward player skill and/or luck. Giving underperforming players so much free loot all the time devalues the achievements of those that play better. And it's not like you can't get any gear if scav mode were only once every 30 or 60 minutes.

Edited by eftballistics
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blokkfighter
vor einer Stunde schrieb eftballistics:

"I have 9 wives, 37 children and I only have 5 microseconds per day to play. If I dont get an M4 with a drum mag and a suppressor then the game is not working."

 

It comes all down to players not valuing scav mode anymore, because it could be played 3 times per hour (and now 6 times per hour). Younger players don't see the problem with this free loot slot machine yet because they only play this for the rush of unlocks and collecting gear. That the core of the game is damaged by this, which is the gun fights and complex decision making, is something they don't consider

Here is the thing, if you are a "low level" or "bad" or "inexperienced" player, then your gear experience has to suck. This is a hardcore game that should reward player skill and/or luck. Giving underperforming players so much free loot all the time devalues the achievements of those that play better. And it's not like you can't get any gear if scav mode were only once every 30 or 60 minutes.

I understand ur point in this discussion. I have over 12 mil rub, 130 k dollars and 23 k euros, so mainly is the scavmode not my primary option, but i think its a great option for lowlevelplayer to gear up. 

 

I know its a hardcore game, realism and so on, but it needs an option to start with with it. If you made it so brutal to start for new people you get a very tiny playerbase.. this can be wonderful, but let us think further: if you play with such a tiny playerbase, you will run most of the time on empty servern.. is this fun for you? I dont think so. 

So lets be honest; if you wanna engage geared player and love the intebse firefights, then let player grow up on the scavmode to gear up their pmcs. Then the problems with hatchlings will go away in time.. if you made it brutaly hard to optain just a vepr or something similar, you will run all the time in hatchlings because no one will risk something... think of it ;)

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2 hours ago, sYs said:

1-2 months into the patch and woula - you don't see that many scav players no more. 

Yep, In current state after some time you put the SCAV away or use it as a map preload option. Players don`t care with it anymore because it dosn`t bring anything to the progression. It only counts for a fresh players. I am against limiting the timer for the chickens.

This guy put a lot of effort to made those all ideas but for me its pointless.

It is not a finished game and a lot of game mechanics are not implemented so as for current state he may have a point, it will be negated with the next patch. 

There is no point playing SCAV, make it worth. That is the solution.

Making the timer longer will not make playing SCAV worth. It will be less worth as it is now.

EDIT,

SCAVs are being reworked from the scratch, as i have read it here on the forums so we have to wait and see whats next, we talking old now

Edited by dunkunid
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Agree totally, scav every 20 were right. No 10, no 30, no 1 hour. 20 is good average time to use it again.

This will not remove hatchets, they will be there questing or farming, for weapons and gunfights scav is ok, is funny, is nice to play against you will have more enemy randomness spreaded on map, as they will go to hotspota aswell.

But, every 10 minutes is too much, all time playing scav it means less pmc on servers, as Nikita said, scav queues to enter a raid can become huge, if there are more scav players than pmc how the raid will suppose to begin?

To new players, to get practice as was stated on podcast...bs, playing with no risk will not teach you to play. Only will remove the annoying sensation of losing your gear which is necessary to learn the game. Or maybe increase the gear fear and some new players will only play as scav?

 

Finally, as 10 minutes is too short IMO, 20 minutes is not that long, you can scav, to collect items, to unstress, to take a break or whatever, in the time you set up inventory, or play as PMC, or set up a gun for next raid you will be able to repeat. I think is the best balance if you really like or need to play as scav, do it 1-1 or 1-2. What’s the problem?

 

As they said in podcast, it was changed for testing, and it’s ok. But the experience I gathered for now is not good.

scav on scav violence still exist, many of them still do kamikaze raids, against scav or players, as soon as get something valuable, in most of cases they run to extract. I’m guessing all this because I was playing in so empty servers since then, at least AI scav is not extracting and still try to 1tap you when you pass around.

 

Nikita said the human scavs takes the place of ai scav and there is a maximum scavs per map. And I feel the human scavs are not doing his job very well... lol 

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bigbacon

I still don't get the hatcheteer hate... I mean, its not like an OP thing to do. 

I would hope eventually they add some kind of negative to actually killing your own kind. PMC should be easy, take away XP or something when you kill one of your own but not sure what they can do with Scav other than maybe make you have to wait a REALLY long time to scav again, like 24 hours assuming you weren't attacked first.

They need to make AI scav not attack you if you are attacked by another human scav and you only shoot that person and kill them. (other than the boss scav who attacks anyone)

I mean when I play Scav I leave the AI scav alone because they are a target for others and so many are so quick to just pop them you give away your positions to me and/or alert me of your presence if I didn't know you were around. Plus then I can wait for you to start searching.

there is a point to playing Scav, because its fun to do and slightly different than your PMC. It is just another way to play and a way to get stuff. the time limit means you aren't spamming it to try and sprint to something and get out and you may get into the raid late and not have much to do anyway. 

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10 minutes ago, bigbacon said:

I still don't get the hatcheteer hate... I mean, its not like an OP thing to do. 

I would hope eventually they add some kind of negative to actually killing your own kind. PMC should be easy, take away XP or something when you kill one of your own but not sure what they can do with Scav other than maybe make you have to wait a REALLY long time to scav again, like 24 hours assuming you weren't attacked first.

They need to make AI scav not attack you if you are attacked by another human scav and you only shoot that person and kill them. (other than the boss scav who attacks anyone)

I mean when I play Scav I leave the AI scav alone because they are a target for others and so many are so quick to just pop them you give away your positions to me and/or alert me of your presence if I didn't know you were around. Plus then I can wait for you to start searching.

the problem with hatchlings is the container protecting good loot on death. you get a dog tag for killing him, and you are curious what good things he just took that you dont have. if it was a geared player at least you would think you killed him and you get to take his gear.

the lack of problem with player scavs is that if they die they lose ALL their gear including any rare keys/items they grabbed. they did the hard work for you!

 

also i agree with what the other guy said, if player scav can "progress" somehow it could be fun and rewarding beyond gaining roubles/items..

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eftballistics

Guys it is not about hatchet players. The problem lies with too much free cash because of scav mode. If anyone can effortlessly get 40k in 20mins by 2 mins of playing, then it destroys half of the game. Because an AK74N costs 35k. And if that weapon is available for everyone every time, then pistols, smgs, shotgun, cheap armor become worthless. This has been a problem forever.

Why do I even have to argue the point that the most versatile weapon in the entire game being available all the time is bad? Look at the beginning of 2018. Game was flooded with cash because "lets make dogtags worth money! What could possibly go wrong?" Everyone had the best gear all the time. Then in April they start increasing armor prices, and now in June, finally teh rifle prices. But that small price increase and the advantage it brough is getting destroyed by scav. Of course most of you dont give a fk about the large scale of the game's economics. You just want your favorite gun and favorite armor and scavs that mildly shoot back but never kill so you can feel like the hero in a cod cutscene. That it ruins 50% of the game's weapons and armor by making them useless is something you dont see.

Edited by eftballistics
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Starlight
16 hours ago, eftballistics said:

[...]

  • It offers a free loot shopping tour all the time. Need to grab some quest items? Medical supplies? Loot corpses others left over after a large battle? Play scav, and by the time you are finished sorting the loot, you can play again.

Have you spotted the less obvious problem? It is the medical supplies. Or: The economy. Here is how scav mode damages the economy:
 

  • There is a pharmacy on the second floor of interchange, it is not locked and has one medical bag and many loose medical items. If a player can get there every 10 minutes without any opposition, or the risk of losing gear, then the need of having to buy medical items or at least fight over them is removed. This will inflate the value of medical items because it is too easy to acquire medical items.
  • The next problem is the AK-74N. Every imaginable possible  problem with economics  leads back to this weapon in this game. If you spawn as a scav and simply walk to the exit then you carry ~ 20-25k worth of loot with you. If you pick up a few items on the way to the exit, you get 40-60k. This means a free AK-74N every 10 minutes. Which makes it the standard weapon everyone can afford all the time. The most versatile weapon in the game, free for everyone. This removes all pistols, smgs, shotguns from the game. No one will field an MP5 or MPX when there is AK-74N everywhere. This has been a problem for the last year, when the AK-74N was so cheap that it dominated the game. Now they finally increased rifle cost but then they sabotage that with a free cash mode every 10 minutes.

 

[...]

Scav mode, even without a timer, is an objectively less effective way to get loot than as a hatchling. You have no container, usually no meds, and spawn late. Clearly the real fix here is to put PMC raids on a timer to get hatchet runs under control. /s

As for the economy - there isn't one. Complete wipes happen semi-regularly, the vast majority of monetary transactions are between players and traders, and traders are wiped every hour. There's not a fixed pool of money and loot, so the principles of economics can't apply.

But really... The AK-74N is the problem??? If we're ascribing blame to the rifles, the AK-74M is categorically better. Lower recoil, same price, unlocks at Prapor 2, best-in-slot muzzle and stock unlock at Skier 2, etc. But an AK-74-whatever is no more useful than its bullets. A full mag of early-game 5.45 is no more productive than a full mag of 9x19 against armor, even if it's slightly easier to engage at range.

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eftballistics
vor 9 Minuten schrieb Starlight:

Scav mode, even without a timer, is an objectively less effective way to get loot than as a hatchling. You have no container, usually no meds, and spawn late. Clearly the real fix here is to put PMC raids on a timer to get hatchet runs under control. /s

As for the economy - there isn't one. Complete wipes happen semi-regularly, the vast majority of monetary transactions are between players and traders, and traders are wiped every hour. There's not a fixed pool of money and loot, so the principles of economics can't apply.

But really... The AK-74N is the problem??? If we're ascribing blame to the rifles, the AK-74M is categorically better. Lower recoil, same price, unlocks at Prapor 2, best-in-slot muzzle and stock unlock at Skier 2, etc. But an AK-74-whatever is no more useful than its bullets. A full mag of early-game 5.45 is no more productive than a full mag of 9x19 against armor, even if it's slightly easier to engage at range.

You completely failed to understand what I said.

1. There is an economy. It is the economy of what gear is fielded. And right now, anything below an AK-74N stopped existing. Because no one has to go into a raid with a pistol, shotgun, or smg until they find something better. Because they can simply get free scav loot, sell it and go in with nothing below an AK74N when playing pmc.

2. Scav is a very effective way fo getting loot. Simply walk to the exit. You get 20-40k instantly. Within 1 minute.

 

vor 5 Minuten schrieb kondziowy:

No point in discussing. It was said on podcast that soon there will be WAY WAY LESS loot on maps.

While that sounds good, the dogtags + 10 or 20 mins scav will pump so much loot into the system that it wont make it better.

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I was wondering how long would it take since the podcast, for someone to create a post to " suggest a balance " to a test on the scav timer...

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4 minutes ago, eftballistics said:

You completely failed to understand what I said.

1. There is an economy. It is the economy of what gear is fielded. And right now, anything below an AK-74N stopped existing. Because no one has to go into a raid with a pistol, shotgun, or smg until they find something better. Because they can simply get free scav loot, sell it and go in with nothing below an AK74N when playing pmc.

2. Scav is a very effective way fo getting loot. Simply walk to the exit. You get 20-40k instantly. Within 1 minute.

 

While that sounds good, the dogtags + 10 or 20 mins scav will pump so much loot into the system that it wont make it better.

1. There is no economy as Starlight stated. People who dont need to go to raids with pistols, smgs, shotguns are people who dont need to loot 74N and similar weapons. If we had flea market, if said weapons were hard to come by, if money making was hard you would be right. Since there is no basis of economy in game(yet) i dont see the problem here. Are you triggered because AK74N wielding low levels will kill you? IF more AKs gonna hit the field due to scav runs, it will only make combat more exiciting. I'm not fond of fighting people with pistols and pumps around the map. Low and mid tier players can get to equal footing faster and SINCE we all have to unlock trader levels to get the best gear simple AK74N is not a game changer here.

2. Whole point of scavs are making easy money. Unlike you most people tend to play as scavs and try to get more loot during that time. Say respawn timer is 10 mins but most scav plays tend to stay longer than 10 mins in a map. If they are killed they will lose the easy money part. If not it will turn into regular scav play. Timer changes nothing here. It is just a good gesture and opportunity to close the gap between extreme gear high level EoDs and new guys. Soooooo carry on.

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eftballistics
vor 28 Minuten schrieb Starlight:

But really... The AK-74N is the problem??? If we're ascribing blame to the rifles, the AK-74M is categorically better. Lower recoil, same price, unlocks at Prapor 2, best-in-slot muzzle and stock unlock at Skier 2, etc. But an AK-74-whatever is no more useful than its bullets. A full mag of early-game 5.45 is no more productive than a full mag of 9x19 against armor, even if it's slightly easier to engage at range.

Also this part is totally wrong.

1. The difference between an AK74N or AK74M is esoteric. Tiny changes in recoil won't make a difference.

2. Play 10 rounds with an AK74N on factory and then 10 rounds with an MPX on factory. In both cases, load your pockets with as many IR scopes as you can carry. Livestream it. Then you can see that any 5.45 weapon is 500 million times more effective than any 9x19.

Gerade eben schrieb Skaldy:

more AKs gonna hit the field due to scav runs, it will only make combat more exiciting.

No, larger guns = quicker fights = less fun.

 

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