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mistakegamer

What's the meaning of submachine guns in this version?

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Since this version offers transparent titanium visor, PMCs are less likely to get 1 tap or killed by small calibers. I know the bigger the caliber the better but it makes 9x19 so bad that the visor can block over 15hits. So submachines guns are only viable as leg meta now?

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Well they need to rework the damage system. Smg´s are pretty much useless against everyone that got armor. Even ak´s dont do Stuff to players currently. Hit a guy 24 times and he didnt die...  Thats bs

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1 hour ago, keyl said:

Well they need to rework the damage system. Smg´s are pretty much useless against everyone that got armor.

Yeah that's not exactly unrealistic.

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vor 30 Minuten schrieb KhandE:

Yeah that's not exactly unrealistic.

If you talk about realism you should consider the pain when you get hit even just once with a armor on. When you get hit 30 Times with an smg on the stomache or chest you would just lie in pain...

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44 minutes ago, keyl said:

If you talk about realism you should consider the pain when you get hit even just once with a armor on. When you get hit 30 Times with an smg on the stomache or chest you would just lie in pain...

Yea this…  face shileds taking a bullet and yoy keep running along. Youd be on you ass and not doing much.

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5.45 is about as useless as the 9x19 too.  Ive gone exclussively to 7.92 and m80 

 

Mp5 or mpx is hella fun on interchange though if you want to dash around aggressively and just hip fire everything in sight.  Youll likely die, but its a fun way to blow 600 usd lol

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vor 6 Stunden schrieb bigbacon:

Yea this…  face shileds taking a bullet and yoy keep running along. Youd be on you ass and not doing much.

I got hit in my helmet yesterday and i couldnt see much for 10 seconds or so afterwards. They already added it for helmet hits.

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8 hours ago, keyl said:

If you talk about realism you should consider the pain when you get hit even just once with a armor on. When you get hit 30 Times with an smg on the stomache or chest you would just lie in pain...

You know after posting so many times on why this is bs with several examples and test standards to show this was the case I hope someday I don't have to keep repeating myself.

Mainly with pistol calibers which are awful at stopping even an unarmored attacker reliably, let alone one in actual armor.

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The issue is rifles being too cheap. Stop asking to distort weapon performance because AK74Ns are so cheap you dont have to use smgs. I keep saying this over and over and over.

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3 hours ago, dunkunid said:

Price of AK74Ns has NOTHING to its performance against armored target. Stop repeating

that BS. 

 

Quoting so it repeats the stop repeating bit.

3 hours ago, dunkunid said:

Price of AK74Ns has NOTHING to its performance against armored target. Stop repeating

that BS. 

 

I say again, this is quoted to repeat the stop repeating bit.

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5 hours ago, eftballistics said:

The issue is rifles being too cheap. Stop asking to distort weapon performance because AK74Ns are so cheap you dont have to use smgs. I keep saying this over and over and over.

I would very much rather use a SMG than a AK74N.

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5 hours ago, eftballistics said:

The issue is rifles being too cheap. Stop asking to distort weapon performance because AK74Ns are so cheap you dont have to use smgs. I keep saying this over and over and over.

For expensive rifles to work out as you intend the SMG-vs-armor problem needs a solution. Right now it would make the game more CoD-ish than CoD itself, with ammo expenditure for individual kills measured not in bullets but in magazines, or quite realistically even magazine-filled vests simply because of how appallingly useless pistol calibers are against even the most basic armors. Imagine having to fill your Alpha container with a pistol case so you would be able to carry three kills' worth of ammo.

That's what you're currently asking for.

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SMGs like the PP-19 and Kedr are still cheap viable options for close fights. The only caveat when running an SMG is that you can't run them like a traditional rifle or carbine and have to change tactics when encountering other players. Outside of people running fort or the assault/full protection gen 4 body armor, everyone wearing armor is still susceptible to loss of limbs other than just their legs. Hit them in the arms, tap that face or hose down both arms & legs in quick hit & run situations.

While the current meta doesn't provide stats for SMGs to penetrate body armor above level 2 as reliably as rifle cartridges, they are still useful even when running stock. Not every situation requires a full-length rifle with expensive ammo and most of the time you can just get by using cheap flesh damage 9mm ammo (9x19 PSO and 9x18 SP7 or equivalent 9x18 round).

There is still a need for blunt damage mechanics to be further tweaked to simulate the blunt force trauma caused by the energy transfer of rounds repeatedly striking helmets more so than body armor. I believe the future implementation of available armor-piercing ammunition will help bridge the gap we currently have between rifles and SMGs reliably penetrating level 3 and 4 body armor. This, of course, is always changing as we continue to test the game mechanics and gather information for BSG to assist them in making these changes as the game is developed.

Edited by Broshido

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vor 31 Minuten schrieb Wurfy:

For expensive rifles to work out as you intend the SMG-vs-armor problem needs a solution. Right now it would make the game more CoD-ish than CoD itself, with ammo expenditure for individual kills measured not in bullets but in magazines, or quite realistically even magazine-filled vests simply because of how appallingly useless pistol calibers are against even the most basic armors. Imagine having to fill your Alpha container with a pistol case so you would be able to carry three kills' worth of ammo.

That's what you're currently asking for.

9mm PST will go through paca. On the first shot. 

 

vor 30 Minuten schrieb Broshido:

SMGs like the PP-19 and Kedr are still cheap viable options for close fights. The only caveat when running an SMG is that you can't run them like a traditional rifle or carbine and have to change tactics when encountering other players. Outside of people running fort or the assault/full protection gen 4 body armor, everyone wearing armor is still susceptible to loss of limbs other than just their legs. Hit them in the arms, tap that face or hose down both arms & legs in quick hit & run situations.

While the current meta doesn't provide stats for SMGs to penetrate body armor above level 2 as reliably as rifle cartridges, they are still useful even when running stock. Not every situation requires a full-length rifle with expensive ammo and most of the time you can just get by using cheap flesh damage 9mm ammo (9x19 PSO and 9x18 SP7 or equivalent 9x18 round).

There is still a need for blunt damage mechanics to be further tweaked to simulate the blunt force trauma caused by the energy transfer of rounds repeatedly striking helmets more so than body armor. I believe the future implementation of available armor-piercing ammunition will help bridge the gap we currently have between rifles and SMGs reliably penetrating level 3 and 4 body armor. This, of course, is always changing as we continue to test the game mechanics and gather information for BSG to assist them in making these changes as the game is developed.

None of this fixing is necessary. Simply increase rifle prices so high that smgs are standard, then everything fill fix itself. A 10k price difference between an AK-74N and a vityaz is not enough to matter because with the savagely stupid idea of scav every 10 mins, every player gets 40k of cash every 10 mins.

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34 minutes ago, eftballistics said:

None of this fixing is necessary. Simply increase rifle prices so high that smgs are standard, then everything fill fix itself. A 10k price difference between an AK-74N and a vityaz is not enough to matter because with the savagely stupid idea of scav every 10 mins, every player gets 40k of cash every 10 mins.

I understand you wish to push your agenda of increasing rifle prices to the point of making them luxuries, but that is a separate issue from the need to balance blunt damage to the head.

While a ballistic helmet will survive successive impacts from non-armor piercing ammunition, the energy transferred from these rounds in a close range and direct impact situation should not be neglected. You have to consider the damage caused by possible ruptured blood vessels as a result of the transferred kinetic energy from impacting bullets. I'm not asking for a one tap from blunt damage to the helmet, but when 7-15 rounds at close range impact a helmet there are few people whose necks can withstand that many hard impacts without causing debilitating injuries. This is just the case for a close-range encounter in which the person wearing a ballistic helmet is struck by successive direct impacts to the helmet, at further distances, the drop in velocity and a higher chance of a glancing impact negate the chances of causing lethal blunt trauma.

p.s. the above is written keeping in mind the OP's question regarding the viability of SMGs in their current state and providing a case for the implementation of measures that could possibly address common close range encounters in which blunt force trauma has not yet been sufficiently modeled.

Edited by Broshido

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10 hours ago, Phoenixsui said:

I got hit in my helmet yesterday and i couldnt see much for 10 seconds or so afterwards. They already added it for helmet hits.

oh. cool, I seriously haven't seen that yet. Im usually just dead :P

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1 hour ago, bigbacon said:

oh. cool, I seriously haven't seen that yet. Im usually just dead :P

getting hit on face shield dont do much(at least for me) helmets deflecting bullets has 2 outcomes; 

1. you will be blind for few seconds

2. Vision will get blurry and ear ringing will start.

Both cases are deadly

Edited by Skaldy

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Imo the solution is to drop pistol and smg prices.  Personally i think 8k-15k for a pistol, even an automatical pistol is silly.  

 

30k-50k for a stock smg is a bit extreme too. If a mp5 was closer to 25-30k it woulf be a fair bit more viable.  Sure the ak74 is only 35-40k but thats stock, recoil out the arse as a stock AK.  

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17 hours ago, eftballistics said:

9mm PST will go through paca. On the first shot. 

But on the other hand you can put 20+ of them into UNTAR and do no damage.

I've been on both ends of this.

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vor 1 Stunde schrieb Wurfy:

But on the other hand you can put 20+ of them into UNTAR and do no damage.

I've been on both ends of this.

They will start penetrating once paca is down to ~ 20 armor points. And there soooo many more body parts you can hit.

This is a video of me shooting a few guys of which some had body armor and helmets.
 

 

 

Superior aim wins the fight

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On 8/16/2018 at 1:18 AM, keyl said:

When you get hit 30 Times with an smg on the stomache or chest you would just lie in pain

Depends on what body armor you wore. An AR500-plate would distribute the force over such a large area that you barely would be aware that you were shot.

A thinner armor on the other hand would be varying degrees of getting shot by a paintball to being temporarily immobilized by pain.

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vor 1 Minute schrieb tobiassolem:

Depends on what body armor you wore. An AR500-plate would distribute the force over such a large area that you barely would be aware that you were shot.

A thinner armor on the other hand would be varying degrees of getting shot by a paintball to being temporarily immobilized by pain.

What is worrying is that casual players don't know how to use smgs properly so instead of getting better, they complain and since BGS loves to follow reddit wishes of large angry player groups it will lead to the game development being steered by casuals. They will ask for smg buffs until the weakest player can easily use any weapon.

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2 minutes ago, eftballistics said:

What is worrying is that casual players don't know how to use smgs properly so instead of getting better, they complain and since BGS loves to follow reddit wishes of large angry player groups it will lead to the game development being steered by casuals. They will ask for smg buffs until the weakest player can easily use any weapon.

While I certainly empathize with your worry. I still hope that BSG will go for what they promised this game to be. I can understand fiddling with settings in this test phase. But I utterly expect things to be as realistic as can be at launch. I will probably be wrong though.

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