Jump to content
eftballistics

Cheap mosin deletes shotguns from the game, because why bother modding a shotgun and using slugs when you get a real rifle for same price?

Recommended Posts

Let us consider shotguns and slugs for a moment. The purpose of slugs is to turn a shotgun into a crude (smoothbore) rifle. To extend its range beyond what buckshot can reach. That is nice to have in EFT. Shotgun players getting the tactical choice between ammo, and then barrel size, and grip and this and that, oh so exciting and..

But no one will ever do that again, because why bother buying a pump action for 24k, then buy extra slugs and then bother with modding it? Just buy a mosin for the same price and hit everything at any distance with railgun accuracy.

Meanwhile, the mosin for 23-26k, can hit anything with railgun accuracy. Yes the ammo is 4x more expensive, but in combat, especially beyond 25m, landing the first 1-3 hits is what ends the fight in most cases. And the mosin can do hard damage on any armored body part it hits. While the slug can only pray to hit the body at all and then be stopped by class 2 armor.

There is your next argument for higher mosin prices: It makes other weapons with similar prices useless. A mosin is more dangerous than a shotgun.

 

Mosin

  • Extremly accurate (can hit any target you can make out in the distance), very small bullet drop over distance.
  • ~200 roubles per round
  • Most powerful ammo in the game.
  • Most penetrating ammo in the game.
  • 26k

MP-153

  • (with slugs) very hard to hit a  target at 50. Hitting a specific body part is not likely.
  • ~70 roubles per round
  • Powerful against unarmored targets
  • 24k

 

Conclusion: No one will ever use a shotgun with slugs again, because why improvise with slugs to turn your shotgun into a rifle when you can get a real rifle for the same price? That also cancels out all the different modding parts for shotguns. Classic example of one bad pricing decision ruining many other weapon systems and parts.

And no, lowering shotgun prices to fix it is not the solution, it compresses the price scale, which then squishes pistols, smgs, shotguns into one convenient and boring 15k blur.

2018-09-24 09_34_29-Let's not lose the magic.png

2017-11-27+17_31_10-tarkov_ballistic_tes

 

Edited by eftballistics
  • Like 1
  • Sad 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vor 9 Minuten schrieb eftballistics:

MP-153

  • (with slugs) very hard to hit a  target at 50. Hitting a specific body part is not likely.
  • ~70 roubles per round
  • Powerful against unarmored targets
  • 24k

 

vor 9 Minuten schrieb eftballistics:

Conclusion: No one will ever use a shotgun with slugs again, because why improvise with slugs to turn your shotgun into a rifle when you can get a real rifle for the same price?

 

Who uses a shotgun as a rifle if you can buy a rifle for that price?

For the MP-153 - you can easily farm then as a scav, so not really 24K.

 

To comparing the mosin vs the MP-153 for balancing is redicoulus...

 

 

The only way to make every weapon important in this game is by reducing the supply...

Edited by TheHappyMile

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh SHUT UP already! People are still using shotguns the same as before! You have:

1. No data

2. No proof

3. Only your own baseless opinion

The fact that you rant more than two sentences doesn't make your rants true.

MP-153 is 100x superior in CQB against a mosin!!!

Edited by OneTrueLizardo
  • Like 9
  • Hot 1
  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You could argue that for the price of an MP-153 you could get a Vepr with HP ammo in 10rd mags. How much did people actually do that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No one BUY MP-153. You can loot all you want from SCAVs. But without at least Skier level 2 running with 4-round mag is viable early in wipe. But MP1-53 with slugs is usable only if you have a sight and have limited range. Mosin works at all ranges and anf against armor. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, eftballistics said:

Let us consider shotguns and slugs for a moment. The purpose of slugs is to turn a shotgun into a crude (smoothbore) rifle. To extend its range beyond what buckshot can reach. That is nice to have in EFT. Shotgun players getting the tactical choice between ammo, and then barrel size, and grip and this and that, oh so exciting and..

But no one will ever do that again, because why bother buying a pump action for 24k, then buy extra slugs and then bother with modding it? Just buy a mosin for the same price and hit everything at any distance with railgun accuracy.

Meanwhile, the mosin for 23-26k, can hit anything with railgun accuracy. Yes the ammo is 4x more expensive, but in combat, especially beyond 25m, landing the first 1-3 hits is what ends the fight in most cases. And the mosin can do hard damage on any armored body part it hits. While the slug can only pray to hit the body at all and then be stopped by class 2 armor.

There is your next argument for higher mosin prices: It makes other weapons with similar prices useless. A mosin is more dangerous than a shotgun.

 

Mosin

  • Extremly accurate (can hit any target you can make out in the distance), very small bullet drop over distance.
  • ~200 roubles per round
  • Most powerful ammo in the game.
  • Most penetrating ammo in the game.
  • 26k

MP-153

  • (with slugs) very hard to hit a  target at 50. Hitting a specific body part is not likely.
  • ~70 roubles per round
  • Powerful against unarmored targets
  • 24k

 

Conclusion: No one will ever use a shotgun with slugs again, because why improvise with slugs to turn your shotgun into a rifle when you can get a real rifle for the same price? That also cancels out all the different modding parts for shotguns. Classic example of one bad pricing decision ruining many other weapon systems and parts.

And no, lowering shotgun prices to fix it is not the solution, it compresses the price scale, which then squishes pistols, smgs, shotguns into one convenient and boring 15k blur.

2018-09-24 09_34_29-Let's not lose the magic.png

2017-11-27+17_31_10-tarkov_ballistic_tes

 

This is dumb. The mosin nagant is not good for close quarter and the cheap saiga 12 with instant 5 rounders out on a guy using either slugs or buckshot will wreck someone so easily. The bolt action 5 round slow rifle is nothing except medium-long range..

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to add, I meant the MP133, the 153 was a typo.
But besides the typo, a mosin will win against a mp133 even in close range and it has none of the long range disadvantages (with slugs).

Because with slugs, a MP133 is just an inaccurate mosin with a fifth of the penetrating power.

Edited by eftballistics
  • Confused 2
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, eftballistics said:

I would like to add, I meant the MP133, the 153 was a typo.
But besides the typo, a mosin will win against a mp133 even in close range and it has none of the long range disadvantages (with slugs).

Because with slugs, a MP133 is just an inaccurate mosin with a fifth of the penetrating power.

This is dumb, the mosin would lose unless you have a 100% moron behind your shotgun

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vor 8 Minuten schrieb Maki_Nishikino:

That data chart is old, game version 0.4.x

Bullet drop is the same still, I test this every patch. (For example the SR-1 pistol still shoots too low, it's an acknowledged bug by the devs for 10 months but not fixed)

vor 2 Minuten schrieb saibot0:

This is dumb, the mosin would lose unless you have a 100% moron behind your shotgun

Do you understand the part where I say slugs?

Mosin has
 

  • Better sight picture than the MP133. The MP133 has no sight picture at all
  • Slugs have much more bullet drop and far lower accuracy
  • Mosin will hit anything at any distance if used by a complete idiot.
  • Slugs hitting anything beyond 50 meters is hard for experienced professional players.

Both weapons cost the same, this is wrong. And if you argue otherwise, make list of how many times you will encounter players with either mosins or players with shotguns and slugs.

The ratio will be 99% for mosin. so please skip the "I am an experienced player and I always use slugs".

Edited by eftballistics

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So that everyone is aware of how contradicting this "character" is....

Until you decide to answer your own contradiction ( opposite to stop answering as soon as someone posted this, and ignoring it as if it were not there ) ill be posting this on your threads

image.thumb.png.08131b00db1ba5d102a9cef5961c2eeb.png

"Realistic" name shaming from yours trully EFTballistics. 

[REMOVED]

[REMOVED]

[REMOVED]

image.png

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

An 8 round mag on a 153 is so much more OP than a mosin. Incredible fire rate and 9 shots (counting the one in chamber).

Doesn’t compare.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/24/2018 at 10:47 AM, mr0pi said:

So that everyone is aware of how contradicting this "character" is....

Until you decide to answer your own contradiction ( opposite to stop answering as soon as someone posted this, and ignoring it as if it were not there ) ill be posting this on your threads

image.thumb.png.08131b00db1ba5d102a9cef5961c2eeb.png

"Realistic" name shaming from yours trully EFTballistics. 

 

image.png

Not even shaming actual cheaters. I guess the examples shown here are why he wants everything nerfed so bad. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe if you keep playing madlibs you'll find an argument for why the mosin should be removed from the game and yourself personally showered in unassailable armor, but the million monkeys argument was meant to be a hypothetical about chaos, not a challenge to cry at everything you don't like until it benefits you.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In this point I'm  just waiting the post about how other players are ruining the game and MUST all be banned

 

Edited by Umberhulk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't get why you are comparing the Shotgun MP-133 (21k) to the Mosin (27k) as a 1-1 when they don't share any characteristic other than their price, which actually isn't even valid now. A more apt comparison (which still isn't even remotely fair to either weapon by the way) would be the MP-153 or Remington or Saiga for christs sake. Price of ammo for the Mosin is extreme vs the dirt cheap ammo for shotguns. 12k roubles for 65 rounds of LPS gzh in the Mosin vs 2k for 68 rounds on the MP-153, the better comparison of rifles. 5k if you do get slugs (why though?). Lets not mention the ease of access to these weapons either for arguments sake.

So that puts you with an ironsighted Mosin at 39k. MP-153 is 33k on buckshot, 35.5k on slugs. That gives you 4-6k in mods to play with before you even out. Oh, you wanted a scope on that Mosin? Thats another 14k roubles so it actually functions close to how it should. For a supposedly cheap weapon its pretty expensive to run (54k on a sighted Mosin no suppressor) for a new player vs just running a basic AK or SKS, something that might actually be a decent comparison.

 

You know what, I'm not going to continue making points and rewriting this post to absolutely deconstruct this non argument. No one's saying slugs should be comparable to sniper shells other then you here. No one is arguing that a shotgun should have the same effective range as a sniper here other then you. No one in their right mind even thinks that these weapons are comparable 1-1, yet here you are comparing them. You are in pants on head retarded here and its tiring. 

Lets get to the heart of the matter. 

Making the Mosin more expensive itself when it's ammunition and attachments is where the price should be (like it was) isn't gonna stop you dying to it if you keep running around and not respecting it. Which seems to be the crux of the problem, you aren't respecting the weapon which is why it's a powerful option. Getting punished for bad play is why you are here and you aren't going to fool anyone when you keep making blatantly incomprehensible comparisons like this, it's low effort and exposes you for the type of player you are.

 

If you're dying to the Mosin 1 of 2 things happened. You got outplayed or you fucked up really badly and deserved it because anything else would of gotten you too.

 

This honestly reads closer to a cry for a buff on slugs then anything which I agree with and would hazard to guess that many others would support as well since they are weaker in comparison to buckshot in every situation. But that isn't what you're trying to argue and its painful to read because you seem to truly believe that the Mosin is all people ever run because there's no reason not to. . In fact you seem to think the weapon is SO good that in nullifies every other option in the game and causes no one to actually load out is just plain false. I disagree and it would appear many others do too, because after that first week I and many others I talk to rarely see it except on woods THE sniper map. (Anecdotal evidence of course.)

 

I'm also going to hazard a guess here. Your next target is going to be shotguns because of how blunt damage works currently and how effectively they can destroy people in armor now. I certainly think they are very dangerous in close as I've dropped several players and scavs in 6b43 6a armor in a few shots to the chest getting 3 total since the patch with just a mp-153 where last patch it was hopeless unless you hit legs which wouldn't happen unless that guy was ramboing like a retard.

 

  • Like 3
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vor 6 Stunden schrieb Palantair:

quote

You don't get. I want the mosin to be more expensive so there is RISK to the REWARD. This construct that I complain about it because it is supposedly dangerous against me and my evil stash is just a thing some guys on the forum imagined because they don't have counter arguments against expensive mosins. They are opportunistic weak players who are desperate to get a gun that offers the chance to kill anything in sight without effort and no risk. And you are part of them.

But that is not allowed in Tarkov, A powerful weapon needs appropriate risk attached to it. And experienced players have better gear because they play better. And they will destroy weak players with any weapon.

And then there is the problem of one underpriced weapon DELETING other weapons from the game because it is soo dangerous no one uses inferior similar weapons. This has been proven time and time again.

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/24/2018 at 10:47 AM, mr0pi said:

So that everyone is aware of how contradicting this "character" is....

Until you decide to answer your own contradiction ( opposite to stop answering as soon as someone posted this, and ignoring it as if it were not there ) ill be posting this on your threads

image.thumb.png.08131b00db1ba5d102a9cef5961c2eeb.png

"Realistic" name shaming from yours trully EFTballistics. 

 

image.png

God i love those videos i whenever i feel sad about how bad i am at tarkov and my own self worth i watch this tool shoot up some walls :P i ran out of reactions but you would have them all right now 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another thread comparing two unlike weapons and trying to strike a balance between them, You can't balance a long range rifle with a short range shotgun. They both have their advantages.

Play against me with your mosin vs my shotgun, idc what map.. if I get within 100m of you, you are dead every game.

  • Thanks 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, eftballistics said:

You don't get. I want the mosin to be more expensive so there is RISK to the REWARD. This construct that I complain about it because it is supposedly dangerous against me and my evil stash is just a thing some guys on the forum imagined because they don't have counter arguments against expensive mosins. They are opportunistic weak players who are desperate to get a gun that offers the chance to kill anything in sight without effort and no risk. And you are part of them.

But that is not allowed in Tarkov, A powerful weapon needs appropriate risk attached to it. And experienced players have better gear because they play better. And they will destroy weak players with any weapon.

And then there is the problem of one underpriced weapon DELETING other weapons from the game because it is soo dangerous no one uses inferior similar weapons. This has been proven time and time again.

I absolutely get it.

 In fact I get it so much that your reasoning makes me understand why you should be safely ignored as you are purposely oblivious to whats being said. I don't think you've really read anything that isn't shorter then 1-2 sentences. You obviously couldn't be bothered to since your reply literally covered nothing about what I said, it honestly reinforces what I've said about you to your detriment. You conveniently  just copy pasted from your other posts in some attempt to re-argue the same thing acting like you've brought new information to the table when you haven't. Then you label me as a casual whos desperately in need of a supposedly OP weapon to succeed with no reasoning other than I disagree with you.

I have argued why the "EXPENSIVE MOSINS" that you are proposing isn't realistic for the game because your idea of expensive is making the weapon a false choice compared to the other sniper rifles and (more importantly) no longer an entry level weapon. Because that's what it is, the Mosin IS an entry level weapon whether you like it or not. I'd even posit that the Mosin is quite expensive for what it offers currently since it's additional price increase. In comparison to its competition its status is relegated to Woods only or as a possible secondary on Customs, something which was already pretty well accepted as its likely niche.

 

Not so minor point, the nerve you take in labeling people so haphazardly is also laughable and stresses my point of how condescending and rude you are. You not even having the courtesy to READ my post says all I need to know about you. Honestly if you had any deductive reasoning at all you'd notice that I actually like shotguns, because that's what I actually talked about.  However you didn't bother to read what I said and were quite willing to lope me into this "I NEED AN OP CHEAP WEAPON" because you don't care about any opinion other then those that agree with you or are your own therefore you disregarded it entirely. Its speaks volumes about who you are as a person and why your posts should be disregarded.

 

 

Even your own statements here are contradictory. If strong players are going to destroy everyone regardless of weapon then why are you worried about average players having a decent budget sniper rifle that fills a very specific niche?

You are obviously so good that it doesn't effect you, so why is it a problem? If you play the game correctly you should have minimal issues against this weapon because it only does one thing even if it does it well. Mid-long range ambush setups. If you got ambushed doesn't that mean that player played the situation better then you? So why would that be a problem as in your own words "Strong players beat weaker players with any weapon" Oh wait, its a problem because its a weapon you don't like because it actually is able to punish you.

 

Contrary to your continuous attempts to ignore this, the weapon isn't free to run nor are you going to get "the dream" run with any semblance of consistency that you posit happens every time without fail. At a minimum you are looking at about 40-50k to run it. Thats not including bags, armor, meds ect which most players are running outside of farm runs.

 

When you can only present the Mosin (or any weapon really) with the absolute extreme examples of a dream scenario to justify a price increase, you probably aren't making a good case. It makes me wonder why you don't complain about ALL the entry level rifles... Wait you do that too that's why you want to double the price of ALL rifles. Which is my point. You aren't consistent with your reasoning. You aren't arguing for Price = Effectiveness here. Its not even about diversifying the weapon pool (I see just about everything regularly) you just want the newer players to struggle while you reap all the benefit of easy runs against said players since they can't fight back even if they outplayed you since they won't have access to the ammo that hurts you and can't afford to run a weapon that could if you had your way because "Skill beats gear"... Right...

 

 

I'd also like for you to explain to me very clearly why decided to compare completely polar opposite weapons as a justification for your argument? Not only that you're doing a 1-1 comparison, what are you even thinking? At least have the foresight to compare things that have similar functions at the very least.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/24/2018 at 9:35 AM, OneTrueLizardo said:

Only your own baseless opinion

Of which a lot of these forum posts are.

 

Anyway, loads of replies and some seem valid. Aren’t we talking generally the price vs lethality of the gun? I agree the cost should be a bit more for the mos.

But as I always like to put down the “numbers” and look at my real game world scenarios and I’m thinking... well I never buy shotguns and probably never will in its current state.

They cost 24k according to this post but they are worth MUCH LESS to me because I can amass 5-10 of them in an hour or two of scav runs. 153, 133, saiga, makes no difference. If I had to put a price on their value to me I’d say it’s about 5k

So 25k vs 5k for two guns that can be just as dangerous as each other in their own scenarios? I’m inconclusive on this one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Vodor said:

Of which a lot of these forum posts are.

 

Anyway, loads of replies and some seem valid. Aren’t we talking generally the price vs lethality of the gun? I agree the cost should be a bit more for the mos.

But as I always like to put down the “numbers” and look at my real game world scenarios and I’m thinking... well I never buy shotguns and probably never will in its current state.

They cost 24k according to this post but they are worth MUCH LESS to me because I can amass 5-10 of them in an hour or two of scav runs. 153, 133, saiga, makes no difference. If I had to put a price on their value to me I’d say it’s about 5k

So 25k vs 5k for two guns that can be just as dangerous as each other in their own scenarios? I’m inconclusive on this one.

Exactly.

Take a Trizip or a Pilgrim, rinse and repeat Factory, or lay down low on any other map, collect shotties from scavs and voilla... Sell them, use them...whatever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
b38e7c858218a416ef714554dce933a2