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New PvE mode


yar_650

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Dear Devs,

I think our game will significantly benefit from PvE mode that would still be high risk/high reward, but only against AI.

What I am proposing is to make a new PvE mode where PMC plays alone on the map, if he dies he gets insurance, but if he lives - he takes loot and experience (0.5 EXP on death, 0.8 EXP on alive) while still being able to fulfill quests.

I know you are afraid that this mode can be abused, that's why I think that wise decision would be to balance it by reducing chances for good loot drops almost to zero and to add validation mechanism behind it. The one that will send session info to validation server at the start of that raid as well as at the middle of it on each new Scav spawn wave. That way by the end of raid we can validate if player could find certain item and if he possibly could take it out therefor eliminating abuse with ArtMoney moneymaking and such.

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HappyCamper

Devs already said this won't happen since this is a pvp game.

They talked about expanding the pve part of the game, but I highly doubt that you will receive any rewards at all. It might enable you to play with friends to learn the maps or to just have some fun vs the ai.

Why would you like a system like this anyway? Is the game too hard at the moment? Asking out of actual curiosity.

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I support the suggestion for a PvE mode that is seperated from the PvPvE mode. Really. Not everyone likes to get rushed on the spawn or die because someone nearly onehits you, with a full modded weapon. (I know the dmg from the weapon doesnt get higher with the mods.)

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Considering how rampant hacking is right now, I think this is a good idea. If the devs are going to dismiss mass daily complaints about hacking, the least they can do is set up PvE while they build/purchase an anticheat. 

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HappyCamper

It can be bad at times, but usually I can handle it. All because of all the good points it has and the potential that is there.

But the bottomline is that Tarkov is meant to be hard. If you get rushed on your spawn you should adapt, move away from it as soon as possible without rushing yourself. If you get wrecked with expensive loadouts without knowing why, get a cheap one and learn the maps/mechanincs. Adapting to situations is key in Tarkov.

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a pve mode that is strictly separated from online mode would be nice and open up the game for a much bigger player base. 
in most MMO games, the majority of players prefers pve compared to pvp. 

having the option to chose which career you want to play would be a major benefit for a lot of players. 
I love EFT, but having to constantly compete is stressful. sometimes I love it. sometimes I just want to chill out.

 

starting up EFT and then playing offline career for a bit would be awesome. 
on other days, when I am ok with being constantly headshotted , wallhacked and such by elitist pvp - junkies, then I would chose PVP mode. 

other games with the main purpose being MMO games allow exactly that. 
ARK, Conan, Scum, Elite Dangerous, Arma3

and that´s just a small sample, the list goes on. 


They all allow the OPTION to play locally and still have basically all the features available. Yes, most of them are much better played with or vs others, YET they allow other modes. 

just separate the two modes. problem solved. I dont think it would be a major issue at all to do just that. 

we already have offline mode. we already have everything playing out locally. scavs, maps, etc. 

enabling traders (of course not the flea market) and tasks should be trivial. 

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On 2/3/2019 at 10:29 PM, CStarker said:

Considering how rampant hacking is right now, I think this is a good idea. If the devs are going to dismiss mass daily complaints about hacking, the least they can do is set up PvE while they build/purchase an anticheat. 

i dont think they will ever buy a 3rd party anticheat. (sad but true). 

I recently watched a video about valve Trust Factor and had tears rolling down my eyes knowing that EFT and BSG are lightyears and centuries apart from modern AC Measures, methodes and a working policy of handling cheats and cheaters as well. 


letting hackers go rampant like the way they do since forever, tells me

- they either don´t care enough
- are not capable to effectively counter it at all. 

the reasoning is also not understandable at all. a game dev company (rather small studio as well) diverting ressources (time & money) to develop their own AC solution makes no sense from a business perspective. thats like writing their own graphic design software to edit images and such with proven products like photoshop and gimp available. granted they are not perfect, but they are ready to deliver at a moments notice. plus you have SLA for the service you actually pay for. 

the game is supposed to be played as an MMO (its not , not enough players on the same map to be called "Massive".. ), yet one of the main reasons online-games are losing players is because of cheaters and hackers. Its not hard. taking a look at other games with the same problems and you see players either leaving the game in droves OR (if the option is available) starting their own private servers. 

number 1 and 2 priorities for any online shooting game with a pvp element should be

- netcode 

- hack- and cheater- prevention. 
then the rest. 
 
their trackrecord regarding both is not exactly a shining beacon of game development prowess. 
the best gun mechanics in the world dont really matter if those two aspects are not working at all. 
 

 

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HappyCamper
3 hours ago, psykikk said:

They all allow the OPTION to play locally and still have basically all the features available. Yes, most of them are much better played with or vs others, YET they allow other modes.

Tarkov will allow pve play as well. But only to test and learn the game, alone and in the future coop. There will be no progression while playing pve. Originally they planned to remove it after the beta.

If you really want to have a relaxed time shooting at dumb scavs you might as well go play one of the many games you mentioned. No use changing this game in one of those.

Why do you think a lot of people will buy this game when it has a pve gamemode? They already have a lot of better alternatives for this gametype, like you said yourself. So the only thing a pve mode would do is split the playerbase AND kill the vision of the devs AND force them to divide their resourses over several projects hurting the game overall.

Also, this is not a standard MMO by any means, this is a multiplayer FPS with some light RPG/survival elements.

I do kinda agree on the piority list. But to make a game a succes you will have to add so many other things. Who would play a game with a good netcode and no cheaters that has barely any content, ugly graphics, clunky controls and "the worst gun mechanics". It is a package of a lot of important things and they are working on everything. Can't expect them to build a great game in one day.

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2 hours ago, HappyCamper said:

 ..."They already have a lot of better alternatives for this gametype, like you said yourself...."... 

..."Also, this is not a standard MMO by any means, this is a multiplayer FPS with some light RPG/survival elements...."

..." Can't expect them to build a great game in one day."

never said that those games are better alternatives. they just allow local / offline / private playmodes as well. thats the only thing all games on this list have in common.

 

also, no other game offers this combination of gunplay, graphics , world setting and loot / exctraction mechanics. none. If there is one that offers this, please tell me. 

II also never stated or said its a standard MMO. but saying survival is a "side element" contradicts everything the devs ever said about the game and their vision. survival of raids and coming out alive is the core concept of the whole lore. its just that basically the player base of EFT became too obsessed with the gunplay and pvp mechanics. which is ok. but the core concept and idea was surviving and finding loot and then getting the hell outta dodge. not running straight toward gunfire because there´s nothing else to do. 

(as a side note: you read them stating persistent health amd damage increasing wait times between raids and the player base cries out "oh no.. i cannot go pvp for a few minutes ?? wtf ??")

I also never expected them (nor any game dev company for that matter) to build a great game in one day. where did you come up with that ? 
 

so you think that expanding gameplay options and opening up the game to a wider playerbase will "divide the current player base" ?? 

it might be your opinion, but I think your assumption that this will have that effect is just wrong. 
again and again you see posts on the forums asking about offline mode. thats just a few of those players. most customers never bother registering at the forums, or even starting a thread about it.

I think the positives would outweigh the possivble negative effects ( which I dont see any)

if it would do one thing is attract more players to the game in total. and much like in those other games, even the pve folk will occasionally play pvp sessions. maybe not exclusively, but they would at least try it out , especially when they really know the ins and outs of the game. 

it would also show flaws in game design, especially AI , much much faster than with oure online mode because you never know if it´s netcode, server issues (not necessarily the same thing) or really the AI settings that mess up their behavior. 

so unless BSG does not cater to the people and change core mechanics to foster PVE instead of PVP / Online mode, I seriously dont know what the heck could be wrong about a career offline mode that is just separated from online mode. 

 


 

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HappyCamper

You do you my friend. Sad to see you just pick a few bits to comment on and than rant along your merry way, repeating your previous post. But ok, here we go.

30 minutes ago, psykikk said:

never said that those games are better alternatives. they just allow local / offline / private playmodes as well. thats the only thing all games on this list have in common.

Ok my bad, I just assumed that you thought there are better alternatives.

Still, comparing these games and their pve content with Tarkov is not really viable. None of the games you listed, save for Army in some aspects, is anything like Tarkov. So you can't just say that because they have pve options it should be applied to Tarkov and it will make it better.

You remember Mass Effect 3 having a multiplayer whilest being a single player game at its core? They just tacked it on because they thought people wanted it because other games also had multiplayer...... it was bad and noone played it. Lots of time and resources wasted because someone thought it was needed to make the game better and attract more players. They could have spent it on a fourth and better ending ..... ;)

28 minutes ago, psykikk said:

also, no other game offers this combination of gunplay, graphics , world setting and loot / exctraction mechanics. none. If there is one that offers this, please tell me. 

Indeed there is none, so why change this unique game in a flawed one. Only because you want pve, which it has, and think this will make the game better. Do you have any proof of this? If not please stop saying other people are wrong when they offer counter arguments. You make a point you are certain of? Than it is your job to provide proof.

32 minutes ago, psykikk said:

II also never stated or said its a standard MMO.

Why compare it to other MMOs than? Apples to oranges.

34 minutes ago, psykikk said:

(as a side note: you read them stating persistent health amd damage increasing wait times between raids and the player base cries out "oh no.. i cannot go pvp for a few minutes ?? wtf ??")

Show me any informed person saying this?

35 minutes ago, psykikk said:

I also never expected them (nor any game dev company for that matter) to build a great game in one day. where did you come up with that ?

Never implied you said that, nor did I imply you thought that. Just stated something obvious as an end quote on the priority list bit.

38 minutes ago, psykikk said:

so you think that expanding gameplay options and opening up the game to a wider playerbase will "divide the current player base" ?? 

it might be your opinion, but I think your assumption that this will have that effect is just wrong. 
again and again you see posts on the forums asking about offline mode. thats just a few of those players. most customers never bother registering at the forums, or even starting a thread about it.

I think the positives would outweigh the possivble negative effects ( which I dont see any)

More gameoptions will divide the playerbase, common sense my friend. You can't play both at the same time. If you think this is wrong provide me with an example. In the meanwhile do some reading on Battlefield and the way they handled their DLC/mappacks previously and why they changed this.

There are also people posting scavs are too good, loot is to sparse, the game is too hard, there should be servers based on gearscore, you shouldn't be allowed to play without a certain amount of gear equiped, teams should have their seperate server, etc etc. So because these are things people say on the forum the devs should do that? No? Didn't think so.

So please open your eyes for the possibility that some changes might also have negative effects, and don't go defending your point blindly because you can't open up for someone else's view on things. You post on a public forum, expect feedback.

44 minutes ago, psykikk said:

if it would do one thing is attract more players to the game in total. and much like in those other games, even the pve folk will occasionally play pvp sessions. maybe not exclusively, but they would at least try it out , especially when they really know the ins and outs of the game.

Of course it would be a good thing to have a bigger playerbase. I fully agree on that. But it would have to double to keep two different playmodes viable.

Don't forget that the devs will have to divide their resources to keep both gamemodes running and developing. They would be running two games from that point on, at least if you want a full pve experience that is. If you just strip away the PMCs and leave in the scavs it is a very weak Division clone. One without any real challenge I might add. And if you want the devs to make it better so you can have a decent pve experience will mean that both gamemodes will suffer because it will bring about a lot of extra work

47 minutes ago, psykikk said:

it would also show flaws in game design, especially AI , much much faster than with oure online mode because you never know if it´s netcode, server issues (not necessarily the same thing) or really the AI settings that mess up their behavior.

This is why they have the current offline mode.

48 minutes ago, psykikk said:

so unless BSG does not cater to the people and change core mechanics to foster PVE instead of PVP / Online mode, I seriously dont know what the heck could be wrong about a career offline mode that is just separated from online mode

Hope you get some of the issues with this now.

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again i didnt compare compare content: I listed them solely for the fact that they allow local mode although they are meant to be played online. 

to dev building something i one day: it came up from you. not me.

i never said game changes might not have negative effects. thats why I didnt ask for any changes in game mechanics.they can keep their damage models, loot mechanics, task systems and skills. all good and dandy. I never asked for any special features on local mode. NOTHING has to be different in terms of features. 

 

again: I seriously dont see anything that would make the game worse for players prefering the online PVP game mode when they would also allow local career mode as an option. 

as long as the game they design is the vision of harcdore survival shooter. sure it will be a different game experience for those playing locally, but it would not affect those playing online in any shape or form. the guys playing locally will miss out on some of the best aspects (and also on some of the must frsztrating ones.. true.) 
i mean a lot of people play scum (just an example) locally. sure its boring as hell but at least they play it and paid for it.. 

on dev ressources: 

in the aforementioned games that allow local play its the same team that develops the game. because it is the same game. you start a local server instance of the game running on your machine. the only difference would be where the server runs and where the database is .or do you think that ARK (or scum or arma3) had two teams working online / offline modes ? seriously? or Atlas ? 

for most of the games mentioned I can download the servers  on steam or the official websites right now and start them in minutes if I so chose. and that does not change the game experience for millions of others that chose to play online on official servers. 

btw: by working on a totally different tech (anticheat) and the main game as we write this,  the studio is doing exactly what you are saying and you seem to be fine with that. both seem to be working perfectly (<-irony there)

 

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vor 9 Stunden schrieb HappyCamper:

It can be bad at times, but usually I can handle it. All because of all the good points it has and the potential that is there.

But the bottomline is that Tarkov is meant to be hard. If you get rushed on your spawn you should adapt, move away from it as soon as possible without rushing yourself. If you get wrecked with expensive loadouts without knowing why, get a cheap one and learn the maps/mechanincs. Adapting to situations is key in Tarkov.

The problem I see here is, if they are ingame while you are still in the loading screen. Idk why, my friend with a slower pc then mine got a faster loadingscreen from time to time, like I have. He is in the "waiting for players" screen and says. It started, where are you. While I still wait to load the loot. And my Character is visible while I am in the loading screen. That is about 30% of the time, where I get "rushed" but however, yes. To learn the maps etc. is nice. But with 5 or 6 friends in pvpve offline against each other. That would be training! And there I would learn where to look for people and where to look for scavs or the loot. However, still good to see that it will happen. PvE Offline. Hopefully not just in a group.

What I forgot to say: Playing against scavs ain't training. They aren't really moving like real player. They are just activate aimbot and run in the cover. Then shoot your legs down with lvl 3 vitality to get rekt.

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HappyCamper

@psykikk Ok, than don't read and cherrypick what to reply to. I'll just cherrypick myself than.

5 hours ago, psykikk said:

in the aforementioned games that allow local play its the same team that develops the game. because it is the same game. you start a local server instance of the game running on your machine. the only difference would be where the server runs and where the database is .or do you think that ARK (or scum or arma3) had two teams working online / offline modes ? seriously? or Atlas ?

Simple, because they set out to create both from the start. So the team is big enough for that. BSG isn't, so the team is too small to make an actual single player experience. It is so simple that I'm really amazed that you see it like you do. It is kinda silly even to use this as an argument.

But like I said, you be you.

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HappyCamper
3 hours ago, pricex13 said:

The problem I see here is, if they are ingame while you are still in the loading screen. Idk why, my friend with a slower pc then mine got a faster loadingscreen from time to time, like I have.

Yeah that happens to me too sometimes, even with a decent pc. Buddy is in game and I'm still loading. Only happens when I haven't played on the map before. On my second run I'm always on time for the countdown. Is that the same for you?

To be honest, I only ever got rushed on Factory when that happened, or the just moved to my spawn to clear it out, or even some old fashioned bad luck.

3 hours ago, pricex13 said:

But with 5 or 6 friends in pvpve offline against each other. That would be training!

Agreed, I'm looking forward to the planned features for the testmode so you can do it as a group. Indeed ideal for showing the maps to new players and discussing strategies.

 

3 hours ago, pricex13 said:

Playing against scavs ain't training. They aren't really moving like real player. They are just activate aimbot and run in the cover. Then shoot your legs down with lvl 3 vitality to get rekt.

So true my friend, so very true. That is one of the reasons that a pve variant of Tarkov would be boring af.

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22 hours ago, HappyCamper said:

 

So true my friend, so very true. That is one of the reasons that a pve variant of Tarkov would be boring af.

what is deemed boring or not lies in the eye of the beholder, doesnt it ? 
I mean cheesing scav raiders on labs nonstop to farm gear and money sure seems a very prominent and favorite game mode nowadays. 
not much pvp involved on that as well and shitload of players keep doing it day in day out since labs was introduced. 

some players still run interchange again and again and again, not for the pvp but to farm kiba and possible Killa. same was true with Dealmaker and Customs. the majority of players dictating the flea market do nothing but run scripts. there migh be accounts not even going raiding but solely trading on the flea market. some enjoy managing their inventory all day. or do scav runs and stay away from other players as much as possbible. boring ? well, not for them it isnt. 

 

and like I said, sure the pve players would miss out on some of the best aspects, but it would be their decision. and you and others wouldn´t be affected in any shape or form. 

 

also; the games I stated as examples didnt start out with local and online modes as the goal, but their server / client structure allowed it to be hosted locally. their technical game "architecture" (client / server setup) is it that allows this kind of setup, not the size of the dev team. and again, its not about developing additional features for a different game mode (an actual single player experience ? what is that supposed to mean anyways?) please just stop bringing that up, nobody ever asked for something like that. all people are asking for is being able to play the exact same game we already have, but offline. alone. locally. 

on a side note:
I am pretty sure that technically speaking it would be possible to run EFT locally right now already. its basically what we all do anyways, when we play an offline raid. the settings regarding AI does direct configure server settings, which starts locally. your client connects locally. the whole simulation and asset streaming of the map is done locally already.

its the same, but missing some core elements, mainly the database(s, probably several) that store character progression , etc. 

and to simulate locally running traders with fixed prices, storing skills and inventory locally is trivial at best.

not wanting to publish server files and database schemes to the public to run their own community servers is a decision I seriously dont understand, as that would also significantly reduce maintenance costs for BSG. which would make a lot of sense since they dont have a steady monthly income stream. 

Instead of paying all those servers every single month, they could reduce the number of official servers and boost their performance instead. thus making sure that players connect to the official servers finally get servers with real performance. instead of maintainign a shitload of servers all over the planet that all run fairly well.. on a good day at least. 

the lack of steady income streams is probably th enumber one reason most of those games only have a handful of official servers. the rest is paid directly by the community themself. 

heck even latest releases do that as well. sure community servers might lack features and are smaller sometimes.. but it gives players options. and widens the player base(total amount of players playing (aka paying)), not shrinking it. 

but of course.... they are BSG.. so they must have a great masterplan behind all their decisions. 

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12 hours ago, psykikk said:

I mean cheesing scav raiders on labs nonstop to farm gear and money sure seems a very prominent and favorite game mode nowadays. 
not much pvp involved on that as well and shitload of players keep doing it day in day out since labs was introduced. 

People do it for easy gear. Isnt it obvious?

Look at any game in the history of games (with gear). If there is an easy way to get it, everyone does just that. Because - obvious reasons.

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4 minutes ago, Vandreren said:

People do it for easy gear. Isnt it obvious?

Look at any game in the history of games (with gear). If there is an easy way to get it, everyone does just that. Because - obvious reasons.

I know that. i was making the point to argue that mindless PVE is already a major focus of a lot of current players. 
they (at least some.. not all) dont even have the slightest interest in any form of pvp. they want the lootz and the cash. thats it. 

and no one argues that they "ruin the game". 

so I wonder why offline playing would be any different when in fact it wouldnt even affect the game economy like those current loot-goblins do. 

the reasons we keep hearing for not implementing an offline mode - from my perspective - like stating "our vision is a mmo" or "pvp is the main focus" is more of an excuse for not wanting to give out the server files and people starting local or community run servers. 

which is ok,. but they could very well say exactly that. 
again, not comparing games from a genre or feature-aspect, but how they handle this:

scum is a game meant to be played online with xy players on the same map / server. 

the server files are availabe and people can play locally on their own as well. simply because the devs dont care as long as you buy the product. same with ARK, conan, etc. 
minecraft same thing. 

thios route would decrease monthly costs of maintenance for BSG (increase profit margin), open up the game for new possible customers (even more revenue) and not affect their vision of the game and how it´s meant to be played in the slightest. 

imagine opening up EFT for modding. let the community implement new missions, maps , weapons, assets etc. 

how awesome would that be ? 


looking at games like ARMA, Fallout 4 or skyrim here: the modding scene and mods are the main reason that those games still are as beloved and popular as they are. and those games were (and are) still buggy as hell. most dont care. because of the OPTIONS those games give their players. 
 


 

 

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Let me rephrase:

When I use "fps 2" and see no players are on the server - I lose all fear.

That fear is what they want to be a core part of EFT. So yes, it does affect the game.

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Am 7.2.2019 um 09:40 schrieb Vandreren:

Let me rephrase:

When I use "fps 2" and see no players are on the server - I lose all fear.

That fear is what they want to be a core part of EFT. So yes, it does affect the game.

And this ends in gear fearing. And the consequence of that is, that people stop playing this game or, just like me, start buying their "dream" items in the flea market and stop playing online. Just having fun offline.

Getting destroyed by friends or bots isn't my fear. But by other players, that are for sure 100% better then me. That is a fear.

Do you play in cs go as a silver against a master eagle or whatever the high levels there are called. And if yes, wouldn't you poo your pants if he is able to destroy you?

I copied this for you:

“The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown” 
― H.P. Lovecraft

Edited by pricex13
I wrote something wrong.
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Konigstiger92

I stopped playing PVP, only offline. I wanna play games for fun not to stress out, i have a full time job for that. If they remove the offline mode, i probably won't play the game anymore.

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3 hours ago, Konigstiger92 said:

I stopped playing PVP, only offline. I wanna play games for fun not to stress out, i have a full time job for that. If they remove the offline mode, i probably won't play the game anymore.

If a game generates stress ... it is because you are taking it badly.
The idea is to have fun, and if you have to die ... you just have to laugh.
Of all the deaths the one that leaves me the most bitter taste, it is those that I do not see where the shot comes from without knowing that it was through some bug. But definitely the game is well focused, the IA I think is not balanced, sometimes it is too effective (headshoot in less than 1 second of sighting) and at other times they do not defend themselves, and I do not take into account the aggressiveness because they fail in all aspects of attack and assault.
And while I love the idea of having bosses or VIP objectives (armored and armed caravans where you have to attack them with RPG)
And with this current "IA", I see it difficult to implement and that players do not take advantage

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On 2/8/2019 at 8:52 PM, pricex13 said:

And this ends in gear fearing. And the consequence of that is, that people stop playing this game or, just like me, start buying their "dream" items in the flea market and stop playing online. Just having fun offline.

So, wrong game then.

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vor 42 Minuten schrieb Vandreren:

So, wrong game then.

No, I knew what I was waiting for. But about 15% of the whole forum is then in the wrong game. I am just here and wait for a update for the offline mode or to get some release details for the russia game they talked about. But after some years of developing, we are here on 0.11

:)

Edited by pricex13
Wrong words
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