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MPX Sights Kinda Awkward *Bug?*


Eyesik
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   So essentially some red dots have weird sighting issues. I put some effort into representing this with a test that took me a long while. I executed this test with all sights ranged down to their lowest range to ensure that it wasn't the problem, and in fact, it wasn't! As you may see, the difference in the sights are quite minuscule, however, these problems make the MPX obsolete in ranges above 100 meters. Some may say that this isn't an issue because nobody uses the MPX, but with the upcoming additions to MPX modding, this issue needs to be addressed (if not already). So down below, I took a bit to screenshot exactly what I'm talking about, using a variety of sights (about 11 of them I think).

 

   Line in which I'm aiming at is shown in red whereas the impact of the bullets are shown in green. Also take note of the position of the laser when changing the sights. It seems like the bullets are traveling into the laser rather than the crosshairs (this should not happen as typically IRL you can change the sighting of both the laser and sight).

   Anyway, let me know if anyone is aware of this issue, and don't be harsh if I'm just too stupid to realize that this isn't a flaw.

-Thanks for your time!

 

1.thumb.png.10ded19f77a6750b3e7c20c72544790b.png2.thumb.png.c2a151863b9911de323365229e69b8a6.png3.thumb.png.654b094898d10fcbd6c3c1323c5f15b6.png4.thumb.png.6d87ba403b3cbdf19abf76bf88a67175.png5.thumb.png.e2313585f8e90fb0e2993d255d1851c2.png6.thumb.png.5566ffb8ca7ae378912dee7ae6e4b39c.png7.thumb.png.2b63d9b06ef8e201b51102155fab9f28.png8.thumb.png.180502438b8f0eee77e7e71de790ed94.png9.thumb.png.e53faae8652470d509bad9ad0ade7576.png10.thumb.png.820f3f21cb2199f687b7fe528ad21bbb.png11.thumb.png.608fbae3d90de84232f866dc921990dd.pngOverall.thumb.png.dcb6c35173148aad3697442e703f5441.png

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@VividFPSwhat zero were the sights set to and what was the distance between the shooter and the point of impact?

Also, I would imagine the laser systems in Tarkov are fitted true to the bore axis, whereas sights and their respective zeroes are set for distance (taking into account 'bullet-drop'). In Tarkov, the bullet leaves the barrel and goes on its way with simulated ballistics and all that cool stuff; in the majority of arcade-style shooters, the bullet leaves the players face, or somewhere in line with the player's line of sight (remember head glitching in CoD?)

What we need to remember while conducting these tests, is that sights can be zeroed, the bullet exits the actual weapon barrel, and each calibre has different ballistic properties resulting in differing results depending on distance from target.

Please take my ideas into account, and reevaluate (or even better, retest!) and see if it produces different results.

All the best!

ballistics.thumb.jpg.0b463eb9dad1412363f150e72ae32562.jpg

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5 minutes ago, DanExert said:

@VividFPSwhat zero were the sights set to and what was the distance between the shooter and the point of impact?

Also, I would imagine the laser systems in Tarkov are fitted true to the bore axis, whereas sights and their respective zeroes are set for distance (taking into account 'bullet-drop'). In Tarkov, the bullet leaves the barrel and goes on its way with simulated ballistics and all that cool stuff; in the majority of arcade-style shooters, the bullet leaves the players face, or somewhere in line with the player's line of sight (remember head glitching in CoD?)

What we need to remember while conducting these tests, is that sights can be zeroed, the bullet exits the actual weapon barrel, and each calibre has different ballistic properties resulting in differing results depending on distance from target.

Please take my ideas into account, and reevaluate (or even better, retest!) and see if it produces different results.

All the best!

ballistics.thumb.jpg.0b463eb9dad1412363f150e72ae32562.jpg

I think I understand what you are saying, however, I'm not sure that this would explain much (no offense). The problem arises when you see that all the shots were taken from the same distance with different sights with the same ranging. Like I said, I believe I understand what you mean, and the chart definitely helps, but shouldn't the sights be zeroed to its minimal range by default? I will also say that the sighting isn't exactly accurate with shots over 100m away with a 50m zero going over the target. It would seem, as I said before, that the sights are not centered automatically, so many go over heads when trying to go for head shots. Anyway, I am quite tired so I'm sorry if I'm being ignorant or just plain incompetent sounding.

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7 minutes ago, VividFPS said:

I think I understand what you are saying, however, I'm not sure that this would explain much (no offense). The problem arises when you see that all the shots were taken from the same distance with different sights with the same ranging. Like I said, I believe I understand what you mean, and the chart definitely helps, but shouldn't the sights be zeroed to its minimal range by default? I will also say that the sighting isn't exactly accurate with shots over 100m away with a 50m zero going over the target. It would seem, as I said before, that the sights are not centered automatically, so many go over heads when trying to go for head shots. Anyway, I am quite tired so I'm sorry if I'm being ignorant or just plain incompetent sounding.

It's all good dude we're here to have a discussion :) 

Out of curiosity what range did you use? I'm guessing 50m on all (minimum for red dots is usually 25m) as you tested the ELCAN which AFAIK is set to 50m minimum... Not sure on other sights!

From your image it seems you are testing at a distance of around 15-20m, which I imagine would put a 50m zero out by a fair amount.

To address 50m zeroes going high, this is from what I can tell due to at 50m the round is still travelling upwards, depending on the calibre let's argue that the round reaches its peak at 150m then starts to drop shortly after. In the picture, let's say the first zero is our 50m zero; any range during the rest of the flight path will see the round going high.

Admittedly my knowledge on ballistics and trajectories is fairly limited, so please feel free to question and enlighten me as you wish!

bullet-trajectory.thumb.jpg.63ffa379873275e3a065ccc37ff81de6.jpg

 

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Just now, DanExert said:

It's all good dude we're here to have a discussion :) 

Out of curiosity what range did you use? I'm guessing 50m on all (minimum for red dots is usually 25m) as you tested the ELCAN which AFAIK is set to 50m minimum... Not sure on other sights!

From your image it seems you are testing at a distance of around 15-20m, which I imagine would put a 50m zero out by a fair amount.

To address 50m zeroes going high, this is from what I can tell due to at 50m the round is still travelling upwards, depending on the calibre let's argue that the round reaches its peak at 150m then starts to drop shortly after. In the picture, let's say the first zero is our 50m zero; any range during the rest of the flight path will see the round going high.

Admittedly my knowledge on ballistics and trajectories is fairly limited, so please feel free to question and enlighten me as you wish!

bullet-trajectory.thumb.jpg.63ffa379873275e3a065ccc37ff81de6.jpg

 

Your knowledge of ballistics is probably far superior to mine! Now I seem to understand what you are implying. I will say however, couldn't you (In real life) change the sighting to align with the laser? As far as i understand, this wouldn't be a problem in real life, but is clearly demonstrated as a challenge in video games. Possibly having the ability to range down would be the solution to my issue? I'm not 100% sure that what I am saying makes complete sense, but I do find it quite limiting when my bullets seem to travel too high for my cross hair. I may be blinded by frustration due to the amount of people I have failed to hit in the head, I'm not sure lol. Thanks for enlightening me and elaborating a little more. And hopefully they can add a feature that will change how the ranging works on sights (If their real life counterparts can range down to 0m or negatives (if that makes sense lol)). Thanks for the response again Dan!

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Just now, VividFPS said:

Your knowledge of ballistics is probably far superior to mine! Now I seem to understand what you are implying. I will say however, couldn't you (In real life) change the sighting to align with the laser? As far as i understand, this wouldn't be a problem in real life, but is clearly demonstrated as a challenge in video games. Possibly having the ability to range down would be the solution to my issue? I'm not 100% sure that what I am saying makes complete sense, but I do find it quite limiting when my bullets seem to travel too high for my cross hair. I may be blinded by frustration due to the amount of people I have failed to hit in the head, I'm not sure lol. Thanks for enlightening me and elaborating a little more. And hopefully they can add a feature that will change how the ranging works on sights (If their real life counterparts can range down to 0m or negatives (if that makes sense lol)). Thanks for the response again Dan!

My pleasure, it's nice to have an informed discussion for a change ;)

In order to match the sight to the laser, vertically at least, I guess you'd be looking at a 'zero-zero' which means the sight would essentially be aiming parallel with the barrel (not a great idea!) as anything after the initial flight path drop would go low.

I think what you mighyt be best off doing for now is to load into Customs offline for example, find a nice bit of room (I enjoy Construction from time to time) and fire off some 9mm Green Tracers from Mechanic; this will give you a perfect example of how the bullet travels through the air in game, that and it looks awesome (even better at night!)

To further your testing, pick a spot on the wall with about 100m or so behind you to work with, and walk backwards in increments whilst keeping the same point of aim, you'll probably notice (especially with 9mm and other subsonic rounds) a relatively steep arc, illustrated by your shots rising on the target as you walk backwards - you'll then hit a mid-point (the apex of the trajectory) and then the shots will start to hit lower on target. Keep the same zero, but change your distance as you go, I think this will be a great exercise

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Just now, DanExert said:

My pleasure, it's nice to have an informed discussion for a change ;)

In order to match the sight to the laser, vertically at least, I guess you'd be looking at a 'zero-zero' which means the sight would essentially be aiming parallel with the barrel (not a great idea!) as anything after the initial flight path drop would go low.

I think what you mighyt be best off doing for now is to load into Customs offline for example, find a nice bit of room (I enjoy Construction from time to time) and fire off some 9mm Green Tracers from Mechanic; this will give you a perfect example of how the bullet travels through the air in game, that and it looks awesome (even better at night!)

To further your testing, pick a spot on the wall with about 100m or so behind you to work with, and walk backwards in increments whilst keeping the same point of aim, you'll probably notice (especially with 9mm and other subsonic rounds) a relatively steep arc, illustrated by your shots rising on the target as you walk backwards - you'll then hit a mid-point (the apex of the trajectory) and then the shots will start to hit lower on target. Keep the same zero, but change your distance as you go, I think this will be a great exercise

Will have to try this later, sounds interesting! Thanks for informing me on the matter and not battering me for being incorrect. I appreciate the input. Good luck on your next raids. You've been very helpful!

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3 minutes ago, VividFPS said:

Will have to try this later, sounds interesting! Thanks for informing me on the matter and not battering me for being incorrect. I appreciate the input. Good luck on your next raids. You've been very helpful!

I'm not in the slightest saying you are incorrect mate :) it is 03:42 here and I'm having trouble sleeping haha, my info may not be so good either! I hope you have found some sense in my ramblings, and hopefully we can both learn and help to inform the community and devs on potential issues with the game.

Thanks for a good chat!

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  • 10 months later...

I just stumbled across the same problem and did some testing with different sights, too.

 

First the MPX with 5 reflex sights all zeroed to 50m + 2P Klesch. The practise target in the hideout is about ~20-25m away.

Belomo:

974961852_MPXwithBelomo50m.thumb.png.a68857b2a0b2a39e1f7bc71343d53317.png

DP RV:

1274041086_MPXwithDPRV50m.thumb.png.b38c792e1ec2e535425825f5a7fd5b6e.png

 

MRS:

898321076_MPXwithMRS50m.thumb.png.264a301102705221feb46de5f3446cf7.png

 

P1X:

1579471543_MPXwithP1X50m.thumb.png.27a5a7043551be7b5af118e627999d25.png

RMR:

752542343_MPXwithRMR50m.thumb.png.75bf8cba0d662c3a12fc9b8b139d5f5f.png

 

As one can see especially the P1X and the MRS are off point compared to the laser.

Bullet impacts (not shown) are exactly at the height of the laser point, what is expectable at short distances and a laser alongside the barrel. Bullet drop impacts even 9mm far later.

 

Additionally if zeroing (50m) was correct at a distance of ~25m the scope sight should be ABOVE the laser point. They would first meet at 50m (first zero). Only beyond 50m the scope sight would "fall" under the laser dot.

 

Looking at the MP7 A2 this is working as expected.

Belomo:

270449960_MP7A2withBelomo50m.thumb.png.98610b224fded56d1a00283a6f044f7b.png

 

P1X:

429184180_MP7A2withP1x50m.thumb.png.e31ff7eef0991bedfff212be2b85ce7d.png

Both the Belomo and the P1X are zeroed to 50m same target. You can see the laser dot is slightly below the scope sight what is just as it should be.

So I consider the sights on the MPX to be buggy.

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