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SwordBlock

Make wearing gear worthwhile (MATHS)

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SwordBlock

I made one of these threads before were I asked the developers to buff gear and stuff like that. Most people reacted with the usual, oh no that's unrealistic stuff.

I did some maths to show how not worthwhile wearing good gear is.

I played 100 raids on labs, 50 with gear (Gen4, Altyn, modded m4 etc.)

And I played 50 raids with only a Silenced Stechkin Automatic Pistol with 2 magazines filled with ammo.

On the raids with gear I survived 30 times.

On the raids without gear I survived 22 times.

On the times I survived without taking gear with me in the raid I killed an average of 4,5 raiders (let's say 4). Mostly I found a backpack (like beta or attack 2) and I couple of times only a Tactical sling bag. I got an average of (roughly) 450k roubles when I survived the raids. Let's say a Silenced Stechkin Automatic Pistol with 2 magazines filed with ammo costs 25k. So I roughly lost 700.000 roubles (25000 x 28). I made about 9.900.000 roubles (450.000 x 22) . 9.900.000 - 700.000 = 9.200.000 profit.

On the times I survived and took gear with me in the raid I killed an average of 5 raiders.  I took an attack 2 with me and a tv rig. I made an average of 600k roubles when I survived the raids. 30 x 600.000 = 18 000 000. Let's say I lost about 500k when I died in the raids (probably more, but okay). I died 20 raids and lost about 500k, so 500.000 x 20 = 10.000.000. 18.000.000-10.000.000 = 8.000.000 roubles profit.

If you only take a pistol the risk is lower and you still have a pretty huge chance to survive the raid. The raid does take an average of 3-5 minutes longer though. 

I kinda rounded the profits for going in the raid with gear up. The reason why you make more profit with only a pistol is because you can take gen 4 armor, attack 2 backpacks, ulachs, guns etc. from raiders. If you go in with gear you can't take as much stuff with you when you survive the raid, because you already have armor and stuff in your armor slot. You do have a better chance to kill players and take their gear if you go in the raid with gear, which is (sometimes) better than the gear from the raiders, but your chances of not surviving go up as well. When you go in with a pistol you also get an extra gun slot, because you have 2 slots where you can put the guns from raiders in. If you go in with a pistol you can almost always just headshot raiders and take their gear and kill other raiders and even players. You can also kill a raider, take his gear and then kill a player with that gear.

So basically if I calculated everything down to the exact price the difference between going in with gear and going in with a pistol would be a lot more profit if you go in with a pistol.

With my calculations (which favour raids where you're going in with gear ) you will get 1.200.000 roubles more profit if you go in the raid with just the Silenced Stechkin Automatic Pistol with 2 magazines filled with ammo. 

Even if your statistics are a bit different, it's almost always more profitable and (to me) more fun to only take a pistol and kill the raiders, and to walk away with a huge profit. These statistics were made while (to a certain extent) exaggerating the profits of going in with gear. So there might even be a bigger difference for you, and bigger profits to be made from going in with a pistol. These numbers might not seem reliable and I couldn't be bothered to make a youtube video and stuff, so I encourage you to do something similar and calculate your profits and/or losses.

I think that the developers should make gear better or in some way more worthwhile to take with you into the raid.

 

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wfl

It’s fine. There is no use for the money you grind if you don’t buy gear. 

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Tr4wnet
11 minutes ago, wfl said:

It’s fine. There is no use for the money you grind if you don’t buy gear. 

Exactly.

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superbenke

It will always be more beneficial to only have a pistol or shotgun trying to get out with as much lot as possible if you're only after money.
If you only farm raiders and avoid PMC your survival rate could be close to 100% if you play it safe.

The question is what are you odds on surviving when encountering other players who are geared?

Edited by superbenke
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MrChiddlesticks

I don’t know, I’m only level 5 so I’m pretty disgustingly new. I’ve noticed that I do a hell of a lot better when I go in with a SKS then I do when I go in armed with some random pistol. Maybe you just play too aggressively when you go in with full kit and play really cautious when you don’t. I feel like if I were to get a M4 kit with all high tier armor, I’d be surviving 40/50 times because of my play style. But Idk, never had it

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orion310591

Experiment is more less ok, but total statistics should be made by bsg.

Anyway my 5 cents:

- You played 100 raids, average player plays I believe 1000-5000 raids per wipe, I believe, idk idc... that is 10-1% of sample , so multiply chance for different result (i will not say mistake) by 10

- You took sample while being experienced player, not all samples will be made by experienced people, multiply by at least 100 for different mindset of player

- You took sample in one map only - multiply by unknown, at least 6

- You took sample in daylight play only (?) - multiply by at least 2

all in all, you calculated this in a way that cannot be calculated, unless statistics are taken daily, hourly with 10 parameters at a time...

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orion310591
20 minutes ago, MrChiddlesticks said:

I don’t know, I’m only level 5 so I’m pretty disgustingly new. I’ve noticed that I do a hell of a lot better when I go in with a SKS then I do when I go in armed with some random pistol. Maybe you just play too aggressively when you go in with full kit and play really cautious when you don’t. I feel like if I were to get a M4 kit with all high tier armor, I’d be surviving 40/50 times because of my play style. But Idk, never had it

you still did not get the point that pistol is just pointless protection from hatcheteers, and when u make noise with pistol , even some human scav with sks will kill you probably... sks is plentiful, your brain doesnt care if u lose sks that is why u play relaxed and better, for m4 its a common trap to think that u are immortal when u have gear and m4, but its a phase, u will pass it too...

anyway add me ingame on this nick, and I will give u gear

Edited by orion310591

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SwordBlock
2 hours ago, wfl said:

It’s fine. There is no use for the money you grind if you don’t buy gear. 

Tru, but then the gear should atleast give you an enormous advantage in my opinion.

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SwordBlock
16 minutes ago, orion310591 said:

Experiment is more less ok, but total statistics should be made by bsg.

Anyway my 5 cents:

- You played 100 raids, average player plays I believe 1000-5000 raids per wipe, I believe, idk idc... that is 10-1% of sample , so multiply chance for different result (i will not say mistake) by 10

- You took sample while being experienced player, not all samples will be made by experienced people, multiply by at least 100 for different mindset of player

- You took sample in one map only - multiply by unknown, at least 6

- You took sample in daylight play only (?) - multiply by at least 2

all in all, you calculated this in a way that cannot be calculated, unless statistics are taken daily, hourly with 10 parameters at a time...

You are right. It should be made by BSG and they should take all the different factors into account. I just think that wearing gear should (if you are an experienced player) be worthwhile. Something like a 25 - 30 % higher survival rate. At this point it really does not matter too much. I think the survival rate on labs is 15% higher if you were to do this like a 1000 raids for example. 

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MrChiddlesticks
18 minutes ago, orion310591 said:

you still did not get the point that pistol is just pointless protection from hatcheteers, and when u make noise with pistol , even some human scav with sks will kill you probably... sks is plentiful, your brain doesnt care if u lose sks that is why u play relaxed and better, for m4 its a common trap to think that u are immortal when u have gear and m4, but its a phase, u will pass it too...

anyway add me ingame on this nick, and I will give u gear

I appreciate it, I will do it tonight as I am at a funeral all day today. It would be really cool to get to play with some real gear. 

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SwordBlock
38 minutes ago, MrChiddlesticks said:

I don’t know, I’m only level 5 so I’m pretty disgustingly new. I’ve noticed that I do a hell of a lot better when I go in with a SKS then I do when I go in armed with some random pistol. Maybe you just play too aggressively when you go in with full kit and play really cautious when you don’t. I feel like if I were to get a M4 kit with all high tier armor, I’d be surviving 40/50 times because of my play style. But Idk, never had it

The problem if you are high level is basically that gear is underpowered. Half of the community thinks it's fine like this and the other half thinks gear should get a buff. You'll see when you play the gamer more. If you go in with gear the first time than you are waaayyy too cautious mostly as a beginner. 

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MrChiddlesticks
1 minute ago, SwordBlock said:

The problem if you are high level is basically that gear is underpowered. Half of the community thinks it's fine like this and the other half thinks gear should get a buff. You'll see when you play the gamer more. If you go in with gear the first time than you are waaayyy too cautious mostly as a beginner. 

I think that the reason that they did this was to avoid a Tom Clancy’s Division kind of thing. A 1v1 should go to the person with better aim and positioning, there should be a distinct advantage for the M4 and level 4 armor guy, but not so much so that he becomes a bullet sponge. Maybe I’ll change my mind when I get my hands on gear, but it seems pretty good to me with my minimal experience. Then again I’ll probanly change my mind when I die to some dumb poo with a M4 later in the game

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CStarker

I admire your analysis, but there is a problem with your assumptions. You assume that you have discovered a problem because you assume that heavy body armor should be useful in this game. That assumption was just proven incorrect. 

Tactical situations like those in Tarkov would be handled by special forces in reality. Special forces frequently prefer light body armor or none at all. They really don't need it and can rely on their maneuvering skill to avoid being shot, which is what you did.

Tarkov rewards players who follow the special forces dogma of light and fast. The game is a good milsim because the light and fast loadout prevails as it would in reality.

The body armor is in the game to use if players want to. The devs are under no illusion that any equipment they add must be useful, just like real life. This game is about freedom, freedom to be a ditz and wear and IOTV while attempting stealth. 

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