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Essay Response to Veritas Video


droscoe
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@droscoe

Eh, a late response is better than never. Before you ask, I did watch said video prior to commenting. Basic summary was that he found that players were not well rewarded for the amount of time they put in. I would also like to point out that hatchlings do not have access to the same level of damage output as I do. But lets move on:

   "As Veritas alluded to, and I explained, that “advantage of better gear” that you mention actually doesn't scale proportionally in Tarkov. This is specifically the issue."

Not sure how many games you play, but this is common. For example, in Oblivion, a daedric sword cost about 100 times that of an iron sword, but when you came down to the numbers it was only about twice as good. A paca costs about 25 K, a fort armor costs about 250K. Did you want the fort armor to have like 10 times the protection? Rather than the 3-4 times more protection? In a racing game, do you want a high end car to go ten times faster than a cheap one? My M4 costs about 500K: it has a scope, aux sight, recoil reduction system, extended mags, and an absurdly high ergo. I can make a similar gun (though not as nice) for about half that. Is it 20 times better than an SKS with OKP mounts? Not really, but I know which one is more likely to kill. With your proportional scaling value, how much should my gun cost?

"With regards to the rest of that paragraph, this was all addressed in the OP and my first response."

Interesting isn't it when a critique of an argument comes after said argument is made : P

"Two of my suggestions alleviate the mismatch of players. Group players based on their level. Have gear requirements for end-game maps."

Nope, and nope. Some of my best memories from tarkov are from when I was starting out, and killed players with superior gear and levels. It makes the game way more thrilling when you have the equivalent of juggernauts running around the map. Sure, you can kill them, but the odds wont be well in your favor. 

"We're talking about the meta of hatchling runners and low-tier kits being objectively better than investing in gear. This is called a dominant strategy."

I wouldn't call that dominant. Hatchlings are only common on factory (not even in half the games), and there is no problem with a low-tier kits. I have friends that suck at making money in the game, and surviving. Sometimes they outfit a used paca, ssh-68 helmet, and vanilla infantry mosin because thats all they can afford. That being said, my experience is that they are proportional majority at best, which should not be surprising. 

" Currently, as a low-level player (but with access to high-end ammunition) you have the same Death-dealing potential as a high-level player. Name a single game that you play that allows that."

I am not sure if you have noticed yet.... but EFT is not trying to be other games. I'll be the first to criticize the game: hackers are annoying, its glitchy AF, it crashes all the time. What it does have is a solid foundation: it does not try to follow trends, or even set them. It just tries to get one thing right: that is an unforgiving hardcore survival shooter. I also dont know why I still need to bring up that a 500K M4 with M995 rounds is definitely more deadly than a vanilla M4 with M995 rounds. Again, it seems that you are angry that you can get good gear and still get killed. 
I think I should also point out (have not played in a long time), but you can kill top level players in COD with any starting gun as well.

"Let’s not pretend like players haphazardly engage high-end geared players with cheap rounds. We're all doing so with AP rounds. And we’re doing it on purpose because it’s the dominant strategy. "

People hunting for players use ammo thats effective at killing players? Why I *NEVER*. Next thing you are going to tell me is that battlefield players who are trying to destroy tanks will equip anti-tank weapons! This kinda reminds me of that time in history when knights tried to outlaw crossbows.

"Am I to think that, on your own accord and good graces, as a rich player, you’re simply sticking up for the poor PMC? Or are you, and others, afraid of having a dominant strategy nerfed?"

Naw, I am kinda a jerk with all of my tarkov money. Besides, a kill is a kill. If you wanted evidence that I am not one of these budget runners in disguise, note that I currently have a contest in the forums with 20 high end guns up for grabs.

"There is discernible imbalance in the game by (1) having equal Damage-output accessible to all player levels and investments (2) having a single dominant strategy"

Alright, if you are going to respond to one thing, it should be this. What formula would you use to dictate what the investment/advantage would be? If you don't want to bother with spreadsheeting or math, describe it. 

"Jeesh, it's like I'm playing League or something. If someone says the sky is blue, people come out with their pitchforks and grumpy attitudes to say how terrible that opinion is."

   I'll give my two cents on that. It's for the same reason people hate SJWs, you are trying to change what people value in the game. As mentioned before, Tarkov has many traits that set it apart from most other games, and thats what a lot of people like about it. With all due respect, your position seems to be "make it like other games". Tarkov is unforgiving AF, its amazing when it goes good, but feels like a kick in the nuts when it goes bad. Rather than having these trainwrecks of ups and downs, you seem to want to make it more predictable and consistent.

" How do you feel about the meta of hatchling runs and low-tier kit runs? Is it not a problem to you? If so, what are your ideas to fix?"

Don't feel its really that much of a problem. I have no problem with addressing it none-the-less. My suggestions to address the problem?
-Make it so that you cannot use your secure container without a minimum investment
-Make it so that dying has a cost penalty, if lost gear brought into the raid is under a certain amount

    I would put the minimum investment at 30K, and the penalty for dying at 30K (minus the gear of course)

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What's wrong with the solutions proposed by Veritas at the end of his video? It almost feels as you you yourself are the one who never watched that video to the end.

The core of the issue is that you can stick your secure container full of the most expensive things you find and since just a few small items make up a lot, if not most of your earnings from that raid, you'll get to keep the best of it even if you die. With a low gear setup of scav vest and a T-bag you'll probably put 80-95% of item value into the container whose contents you won't lose. Dying literally doesn't matter. Veritas doesn't say that directly but his proposed solution counters exactly this issue. I vehemently disagree with any solutions that say "you can't have/use X because you aren't Y". Suggestions such as "no AP ammo until lvl Y", "no using your secure container/AP ammo unless you take Y worth of gear", etc. I don't think limiting my options based on some arbitrary numbers that don't really mean much makes for fun gameplay, nor does it make sense from the perspective of the traders.

Even the current system doesn't - why would a trader not sell you an expensive item just because you're not high level enough? Afraid you'll lose it to a scav who will then hurt his business? Surely another thousand dollars added to the price of that RSASS will help his business more than a scav who would only be marginally more damaging for his business with that gun.

And it wouldn't eliminate the core issue of losing profit due to taking better gear anyways. You'd just go with the bare limit, chuck it in a bush to get it back and then be on your merry hatchling way. Or, in case of level limits... well, what's that going to do anyways? A high level doesn't force me to also take the armor that you seemingly want me to take.

 

The only thing that will eliminate that core issue is making it so that if your gamma is 9 slots and the rest of your gear contains 15 slots (scav vest+T-bag, with pockets used for ammo and meds), with rare exceptions you'd only get to keep that 60% and then some of your total loot value in there. 53% if you also have a keytool or 46% if you have a docs case, either of which should be given to each and every player from the start anyways if you ask me. And in particular if we're solving it the way Veritas suggested, with cases full of items being the loot you may very well find, having more expensive gear that you absolutely will lose if you die (bigger backpacks, specifically) will become a necessity for carrying any decent amounts of loot back home.

 

In short, the solution is adding a lot more loot value to each raid but distributing it across a greater number of item slots. This makes the number of item slots you have overall the thing that determines the raid's success rather than giving you the option to rely on the few slots you get for keepsies even if you die.

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  • 1 month later...

So what about this ... make other ammo less useless and AP rarer. Make high-end armor rarer und not just buyable - anyone who knows how to make money has an easy time buying them - if only level limits armor, then skilled casuals loose to grinding noobs ( idk if these two groups even exist but still). The end.

The problem with the original suggestion is that, when you play on customs and there are two very good players with high end gear, you suddenly have a lot of problems. If they can use their superior skills to engage you, camp you whatever you are already fucked. Now if your ammo is useless against them it is even worse. So, dying to totally end geared players is already not fun when it happens rarely. With the idea of making AP unobtainable it would suddenly happen all the time. YEY!

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  • 1 year later...
On 6/3/2019 at 9:05 AM, Schaefer said:

I think a lot of these "Problems" are only Alpha or Beta state problems.

There are so many features yet to be implented that i think most of these suggestions are obsolete when they get implented.

(sorry for my english)

Yea so what exactly is BSG's plan to balance and implement their systems properly exactly? What are we on year 5 almost 6? No proper devblogs to explain their actual visions although its talked about a lot. Just the same thing every podcast.

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Edited by Manishoo
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